Car & Driver Lightning Lap: Camaro 1LE and ZL1...

[Gripenfelter]

...stomp pretty much all of the competitors foreign and domestic under a Ferrari or LF-A.

-LL1
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 R - 3.13.9
Subaru BRZ - 3.18.6
Ford Focus St - 3.21.4
Fiat 500 Abarth - 3.27.3

-LL2
Chevy Camaro ZL1 - 2.57.5
Chevy Camaro SS 1LE - 3.01.5
BMW 335i sedan - 3.13.2

-LL3
Merc C63 BlackSeries - 2.58.0
Porsche 911 S - 2.58.9
Ford Shelby GT500 - 3.00.6
Porsche Boxster S - 3.04.2
Audi RS5 - 3.04.3
BMW M6 - 3.04.7
BMW M5 - 3.05.2
Audi S6 - 3.09.8

-LL4
Ferrari 458 - 2.49.9
Jaguar XKR-S - 3.02.1

-LL5
Lexus LFA - 2.55.1

[treg50]

Link? Curious to see where the Nissan GTR, BMW M3, and other cars stacked up.

[Cos]

.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I'm impressed with the times but at this altitude a SS Camaro with the performance package (1LE in the US) is going to be much slower I think.

[rage2]

GTR and M3 were last year only. The GTR ran a 2:53.2, and the M3 3:05.4. Modern BMW's suck for laptimes now.

The C63 BS and the ZL1 are damn close in every comparo. The ZL1 gives up a little in handling, but has more power. On a more technical track, the C63 BS is slightly faster. Motor Trend's best drivers car had the C63 BS slightly ahead (1:38.9 vs 1:39.2) at Laguna Seca. Still, very impressive considering 1/2 the pricetag.

[A2VR6]

For comparison purposes here is the full chart of lap times so far from the previous years (2013 results not included):

http://media.caranddriver.com/literals/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/lightning-lap-2012-results-and-sector-times-header/4851780-1-eng-US/lightning-lap-2012-results-and-sector-times-header.jpg

Full Results: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2012-feature-sortable-times-complete-lightning-lap-times-2006-to-2012-page-8

I swear Chevy has some of the best Chassis Engineers out there... im really impressed with the SS 1LE


Originally posted by rage2
GTR and M3 were last year only. The GTR ran a 2:53.2, and the M3 3:05.4. Modern BMW's suck for laptimes.

The M3 is pretty competitive with its lap time against its main rivals in its class... It's on par with the ISF and is 1.9 seconds faster then C63 coupe. It's 1.1 secs slower than the RS5 but lapped a fair bit quicker than the RS4. I'd say BMW is on par:dunno:

[schocker]

I enjoy the panamara ranking on there :rofl:

[sillysod]

I like that they threw a Jeep on the list haha.

[A2VR6]

Also OP forgot a new class C&D Tested this year:

-LLOink
Dodge Charger Pursuit - 3.17.8
Chevy Caprice PPV - 3.23.0

:rofl:

[Darell_n]

I wonder how the new Viper would stack up?

[BMDUBS]

Surprised no one commented on the strong performance of the Hyundai Genesis? That is the car with the most impressive number to me pound for pound...

The 458 is also insane. 3.3 seconds faster per lap than a GTR is impressive.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by BMDUBS
Surprised no one commented on the strong performance of the Hyundai Genesis? That is the car with the most impressive number to me pound for pound...

The 458 is also insane. 3.3 seconds faster per lap than a GTR is impressive.

I wouldn't consider the Genesis time particularly impressive.

[BMDUBS]

Its lap times match that of your 135i. Which car do you feel is superior? That to me is a good time accounting for the caliber of car the Genesis is.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by BMDUBS
Its lap times match that of your 135i. Which car do you feel is superior? That to me is a good time accounting for the caliber of car the Genesis is.

They both compete against each other and considering the Genesis has "50" more HP than a 135i, brembo brakes and a real diff unlike my car it's time doesn't surprise me. The prices are very similar too considering its a 3.8R.

[corsvette]

The Genisis is still slower than a V6 Mustang....and Hyundais "50" more HP is about as exaggerated as their fuel economy claims. The car is nothing special performance wise.

Heres a list of all the cars from years past.



1 2:45.9 MOSLER MT900S LL3 11/08
2 2:48.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 ACR LL3 11/08
3 2:49.8 MOSLER PHOTON LL5 2/11
---Ferrari 458 - 2.49.9
4 2:50.7 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires) LL3 2/12
5 2:51.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires) LL3 2/10
6 2:51.8 LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SUPERLEGGERA LL5 2/11
7 2:52.3 KTM X-BOW LLU 2/10
8 2:53.2 NISSAN GT-R LL3 2/12
9 2:53.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 (Z07) LL3 2/11
10 2:53.9 LAMBORGHINI MURCIÉLAGO LP670-4 SV LL5 2/10
11 2:54.6 FERRARI 430 SCUDERIA LL5 11/08
---Lexus LFA - 2.55.1
12 2:55.6 NISSAN GT-R LL3 11/08
13 2:55.9 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LL4 2/11
14 2:57.4 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 10/07
---Chevy Camaro ZL1 - 2.57.5
15 2:57.5 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S LL4 2/11
16 2:57.6 ARIEL ATOM 3 LLU 2/10
---Merc C63 Black Series - 2.58.0
17 2:58.0 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG LL4 2/11
18 2:58.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 8/07
19 2:58.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE GRAND SPORT LL2 2/10
---Porsche 911 S - 2.58.9
20 2:59.0 NISSAN GT-R (all-season tires) LL3 11/08
21 2:59.5 AUDI R8 5.2 FSI LL4 2/10
---Ford Shelby GT500 - 3.00.6
22 3:00.7 FORD GT LL4 11/06
23 3:00.7 PORSCHE PANAMERA TURBO S LL4 2/12
24 3:01.1 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 11/06
25 3:01.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/08
---Chevy Camaro SS 1LE - 3.01.5
26 3:01.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 11/06
27 3:01.8 PORSCHE 911 GT3 LL3 8/07
---Jaguar XKR-S - 3.02.1
28 3:02.8 FORD MUSTANG BOSS 302 LAGUNA SECA LL2 2/12
29 3:03.6 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 8/07
30 3:03.8 PORSCHE BOXSTER SPYDER LL3 2/11
31 3:03.9 PORSCHE CAYMAN R LL3 2/12
32 3:04.0 CADILLAC CTS-V SEDAN LL2 11/08
33 3:04.0 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 2/11
---Porsche Boxster S - 3.04.2
34 3:04.2 CADILLAC CTS-V COUPE LL3 2/11
---Audi RS5 - 3.04.3
35 3:04.5 LOTUS EXIGE S LL3 8/07
---BMW M6 - 3.04.7
36 3:04.8 AUDI TT RS LL3 2/12
37 3:04.9 MERCEDES-BENZ CLS63 AMG LL3 2/12
---BMW M5 - 3.05.2
38 3:05.3 LOTUS EVORA S LL3 2/12
39 3:05.4 BMW M3 COUPE LL2 2/10
40 3:05.4 LEXUS IS F LL2 2/11
41 3:05.6 BMW M3 COUPE LL2 11/08
42 3:05.6 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA S LL3 2/10
43 3:05.8 PORSCHE CAYMAN S LL3 2/10
44 3:05.8 PORSCHE 911 TURBO LL4 8/07
45 3:05.9 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 8/07
46 3:06.3 MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG COUPE LL3 2/12
47 3:06.4 JAGUAR XKR LL3 2/10
48 3:06.5 MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG LL2 11/08
49 3:06.5 MERCEDES-BENZ E63 AMG LL3 2/11
50 3:06.6 BMW 1-SERIES M LL3 2/12
51 3:07.4 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 2/10
52 3:08.3 LOTUS EVORA LL3 2/11
53 3:08.4 AUDI TTS LL2 2/10
54 3:08.6 FORD MUSTANG GT 5.0 LL2 2/11
55 3:08.9 JAGUAR XFR LL2 2/11
56 3:09.2 LOTUS ELISE LL2 11/06
57 3:09.3 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/06
58 3:09.4 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 392 LL2 2/12
59 3:09.5 PORSCHE CAYMAN S LL2 11/06
60 3:09.5 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS LL2 2/10
---Audi S6 - 3.09.8
61 3:10.0 BMW M6 LL3 11/06
62 3:10.1 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 2/12
63 3:10.4 BMW Z4 sDRIVE35is LL3 2/12
64 3:10.5 BMW 335i COUPE LL2 8/07
65 3:10.6 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION SE LL2 2/11
66 3:10.8 AUDI S4 LL2 2/10
67 3:11.0 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 11/06
68 3:11.0 AUDI RS4 LL3 8/07
69 3:11.1 BMW X5 M LLT 2/12
70 3:11.7 BMW Z4 M COUPE LL2 8/07
71 3:12.0 NISSAN NISMO 370Z LL2 2/10
72 3:12.5 NISSAN 350Z TRACK LL1 11/06
73 3:12.5 FORD MUSTANG V-6 LL1 2/11
74 3:13.0 CHEVROLET COBALT SS LL1 11/08
---BMW 335i sedan - 3.13.2
75 3:13.3 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 2/10
76 3:13.3 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION MR LL2 11/08
77 3:13.5 MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION IX MR LL1 11/06
78 3:13.7 BMW 135i COUPE LL2 11/08
79 3:13.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 R-SPEC LL1 2/11
80 3:13.8 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI SEDAN LL2 2/11
81 3:13.8 BMW 335is LL2 2/12
---Hyundai Genesis 3.8 R - 3.13.9
82 3:14.0 LEXUS IS F LL2 11/08
83 3:14.0 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF R LL2 2/12
84 3:14.6 AUDI S5 LL2 11/08
85 3:14.8 HYUNDAI GENESIS COUPE 3.8 LL1 2/10
86 3:15.0 HONDA S2000 CR LL2 11/08
87 3:15.7 PONTIAC SOLSTICE GXP LL1 8/07
88 3:16.0 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 8/07
89 3:16.2 MAZDASPEED 3 LL1 2/10
90 3:16.3 DODGE CHALLENGER SRT8 LL2 11/08
91 3:16.5 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX SEDAN LL1 2/11
92 3:16.6 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX HATCHBACK LL1 2/10
93 3:16.6 LOTUS ELISE SC LL2 11/08
94 3:16.7 MAZDA RX-8 R3 LL2 2/11
95 3:17.1 MINI COOPER JOHN COOPER WORKS LL1 2/10
96 3:17.4 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE SRT8 LLT 2/12
97 3:17.5 INFINITI G37 COUPE SPORT LL2 11/08
---Dodge Charger Pursuit - 3.17.8
98 3:18.2 DODGE CHARGER SRT8 LL2 11/06
99 3:18.4 MINI COOPER JOHN COOPER WORKS COUPE LL2 2/12
---Subaru BRZ - 3.18.6
100 3:19.0 MAZDA RX-8 LL1 11/06
101 3:19.0 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX STI HATCHBACK LL2 11/08
102 3:19.3 VOLKSWAGEN GTI MkVI LL2 2/10
103 3:20.6 CHEVROLET COBALT SS SUPERCHARGED LL1 11/06
104 3:20.8 DODGE CALIBER SRT4 LL1 11/08
105 3:20.9 FORD MUSTANG GT LL1 11/06
---Ford Focus St - 3.21.4
106 3:21.8 VOLKSWAGEN R32 LL2 11/08
107 3:22.9 MINI COOPER S LL1 8/07
---Chevy Caprice PPV - 3.23.0
108 3:24.1 HONDA CIVIC Si COUPE LL1 2/12
109 3:24.8 HONDA CIVIC Si MUGEN LL2 11/08
110 3:25.1 VOLKSWAGEN GTI MkV LL1 11/06
111 3:26.5 HONDA CIVIC Si COUPE LL1 11/06
112 3:26.6 VOLVO C30 VERSION 2.0 LL1 11/08
113 3:27.3 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA GLI LL1 2/12
---Fiat 500 Abarth - 3.27.3
114 3:29.3 MAZDA MX-5 MIATA LL1 11/06

[rage2]

I wouldn't trust the Ferarri times. They probably brought a tuned ringer for the event.

[schocker]

Originally posted by corsvette
The Genisis is still slower than a V6 Mustang....and Hyundais "50" more HP is about as exaggerated as their fuel economy claims. The car is nothing special performance wise.

:werd:
Also beat by the 350z, 370z, evo etc. and it is a $40k hyundai so similar in price

[georgemagana]

I drove a brand new 3.8 genesis my friend bought 2 days ago and it's a really nice car! I couldn't push it or anything because it still was on summer tires but I have to agree, it's not nearly as track oriented as other cars like the evo. I'd say it is car that is between a G37 and a mustang. So it's decent enough at the track and still has a nice interior and still somewhat practicle. I'd say is almost a perfect DD and for 39k is not that bad

[That.Guy.S30]

The comparison is good, but you guys shouldn't take these numbers seriously. Different tracks favor different cars. The genesis may be better here than the Evo but it could prove otherwise on a different track.

[bart]

probably not lol and the evo was faster...

[That.Guy.S30]

New year.. New reading problems lol.

[georgemagana]

And the difference between the MR than ran 3.13 and the SE than ran 3.10 is most likely the way better factory tune 2011+ evos have plus maybe a different driver.

[benyl]

Originally posted by rage2
GTR and M3 were last year only. The GTR ran a 2:53.2, and the M3 3:05.4. Modern BMW's suck for laptimes now.

The C63 BS and the ZL1 are damn close in every comparo. The ZL1 gives up a little in handling, but has more power. On a more technical track, the C63 BS is slightly faster. Motor Trend's best drivers car had the C63 BS slightly ahead (1:38.9 vs 1:39.2) at Laguna Seca. Still, very impressive considering 1/2 the pricetag.

Damn, time to redneck it up and get a ZL1

[rage2]

I'd like to try a ZL1 to see what it's all about. I don't really care about laptimes anymore, especially since we don't have a track, I value how fun a car is to drive.

[A2VR6]

Apparently C&D made this note about the 1LE:

"Remove the one regrettable slip-up (poorly timed 3-2 downshift) and add a fresh set of Goodyears, and you have a sub-three-minute care for the low, low price of $37,390."

Apparently the driver thinks they lost 1-2 seconds with that mistake... That would basically put it faster than a Mustang that weighs about the same but has 230 more hp than the Camaro. :nut:

[LOLzilla]

For those that don't know what the 1LE is (I had to search) it's Chevy's answer to the Mustang Boss which is going out of production.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1209_2013_chevrolet_camaro_ss_1le_first_test/

Looks really nice.

[95teetee]

Originally posted by LOLzilla


Looks really nice. I guess the link I saw had the wrong pictures.

[herragge]

Honestly was not familiar with the 1LE but the performance figures are quite amazing. I'm very surprised and impressed actually. The Boss 302 was startling for me, this even more so. That is a high value vehicle, you're getting alot for your money.

But agreed. Not the best looking thing.

[corsvette]

The colour and black wheels do nothing for that car. Other than that I think the camaro is a cool looking car, especially the convertible.

[Redlined_8000]

That 458 time is really fast. Must be a really good track for that car... I know for sure on other tracks the GTR can beat it.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
For those that don't know what the 1LE is (I had to search) it's Chevy's answer to the Mustang Boss which is going out of production.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1209_2013_chevrolet_camaro_ss_1le_first_test/

Looks really nice.

Yep, FWIW The 1LE option was available in 88-92 camaro's for use in factory racing (like the players challenge series)...it's the rarest, most sought after camaro of that body style.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd472/Anomaly85/Themoreyouknow.jpg

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000
That 458 time is really fast. Must be a really good track for that car... I know for sure on other tracks that homely Nissan supercar may be able to beat it.

Fixed your post.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000
That 458 time is really fast. Must be a really good track for that car... I know for sure on other tracks the GTR can beat it.
http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
It is like they have only been called out once as other people still want to drive their cars :rofl:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by schocker

It is like they have only been called out once as other people still want to drive their cars :rofl:

Ferrari is untouchable. The name alone ensures that they will always be amongst the most desirable cars in the world. One fringe journalist's blog isn't going to change almost 100 years of tradition.

[Gripenfelter]

Originally posted by rage2

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Nissan did this as well with their GTR.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by Gripenfelter


Nissan did this as well with their GTR.

Are you just referring to the whole Nurburgring "cut slicks" issue with the original 09 posted times?

I really don't think Nissan or many other carmakers make you:
- Call up the factory to pre-authorize any magazine tests
- Bring a straight line car and track car for every authorized magazine test involving both
- Bring a technician team to every track to "tune" the car for that track ahead of every comparo
- Because of said tuning, inflate magazine performance results to levels unachievable by private customer cars

In fact, for the GTR, private customer cars have not only matched but surpassed magazine tested results stock, especially in the 12 and 13 models.

The only other car where I've really heard of this type of consistent behavior as what's mentioned in the Ferrari article is whenever a Viper ACR is tested. But it's only the tech team and tuning per track that takes place. And as a true track car, buyers would expect to generally do the same thing when racing it, so I'm not really surprised by that vs. Ferrari's which are more designed for general use.

[schocker]

Originally posted by heavyD


Ferrari is untouchable. The name alone ensures that they will always be amongst the most desirable cars in the world. One fringe journalist's blog isn't going to change almost 100 years of tradition.
I agree but I wouldn't call Chris Harris a fringe journalist. He is pretty popular and his reviews/videos are all pretty good imo.

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by rage2

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins


Ya that 458 time is even almost 2 seconds faster than a LP-570 Superleggara..... Which is crazy lol. Thats stupid...

Oh well I still love the high revving NA power of a Ferrari

[gpomp]

Part 1 - LL1

GTb7V-LWRHQ

[treg50]

Really nice looking video.

The decision to put cars in price classes vs. power classes is always interesting. Thanks to that the Genesis wins, I guess it speaks to bang for the buck. But I'd probably still get the Subaru BRZ.

And c&d is pretty stupid for destroying the key to Focus. Bunch of dolts, it's a nice car.

[gpomp]

LL2

YDU_TQXH4JY

[Revhard]

This is obviously not a power circuit, but the GT500 needs more apparently. We already know the ZL-1 is underpowered, just not sure how you get a 4000+lb beast around the track that fast...:eek:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Just reading the article in the magazine now, this stuck out to me "The Genesis 3.8 R-Spec was the fastest car in this year's LL1 group, but it was far from the favorite"

They feel the chassis can't take the power anymore, also of note the new Genesis was no faster than the old one even with 42HP more.