Question about squats

[Mitsu3000gt]

So I am a few weeks into the 5X5 program now and I have been increasing the weight quite steadily on the squats. I'm up to 115lbs now and I started at 65lbs for form (but that 65 was much too low I think). I'm 5'10" 155lbs.

Anyways, starting 2 workouts ago, I have had some fairly sharp pain in my outer quads during the squat that I have never felt before. I looked up the muscle and I think its the Vastus Lateralis. I can't tell if its strain, or an underdeveloped muscle in relation to the rest of my leg. I can work through the pain, but it's more intense than the "normal" soreness I'm used to feeling. It started with my left leg, which is now fine even after the second workout since the pain, and last night I felt it in my right leg. It barely hurts at all today, which suggests to me that it recovers quickly and may just be underdeveloped muscle pain. I feel it when I stand up from a chair, or obviously when I do a squat. What do you guys think? Have you had anything similar happen to you? Any tests I can do?

Basically I can't tell if I just need to work through the pain because that muscle has probably never been worked like this before, or if I am possibly hurting myself, even though the weight itself isn't an issue.

Thanks!

[austic]

if its not the weight that’s the issue I would suggest giving it some time to heal up. How are body weight squats? Do you feel it at a certain point or is it a constant pain?
Could be a flexibility issue creating strain. Spend longer warming up (Air squats with 5-45 second pause at the bottom) and roll out good after and see if that helps.

Second thing to consider you could be doing your squats with your quads being the dominant muscle, but only a vid of you squatting or someone checking your form could tell you that.

I am in no way an expert in possible injuries but I truly believe your body knows the difference between muscle soreness and injury.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by austic
if its not the weight that’s the issue I would suggest giving it some time to heal up. How are body weight squats? Do you feel it at a certain point or is it a constant pain?
Could be a flexibility issue creating strain. Spend longer warming up (Air squats with 5-45 second pause at the bottom) and roll out good after and see if that helps.

Second thing to consider you could be doing your squats with your quads being the dominant muscle, but only a vid of you squatting or someone checking your form could tell you that.

I am in no way an expert in possible injuries but I truly believe your body knows the difference between muscle soreness and injury.

The pain is not constant at all. It's pretty much only when I do a squat or get up from a chair, so whenever the muscle is used I guess. It also hurts a lot less than it did yesterday, which was my last workout. The best description of the pain is it feels exactly like a charlie horse. Its in the same spot on the side of your leg that you can actually get a charlie horse too, if someone were to hit there.

I *think* it's just soreness, because it goes away, and only my right leg feels it now (2 workouts ago it was my left). But the pain was different from anything I've felt before so I wasn't sure.

I think I will try dropping the weight, and doing more warmup like you suggest and see what happens next time. Thanks for the reply.

[403ep3]

Try taking a video because it might be due to how you squat. It could also be your muscles trying to adjust to squating 3x a week. I know when I first started to squat heavy my knees gave me a bit of pain. Now I take fish oils and joint multivitamins and feel no pain anymore. Do you go ATG or parallel?

[zipdoa]

As suggested in the thread, take a video from the side so we can see your form.

Also, do you experience the same pain when doing leg press? leg extensions? leg curls? front squats? Is your IT band tight?

[Mitsu3000gt]

It's going to be difficult to get a video, I always work out alone as well.

My personal guess is that it's my smaller/less used muscles adjusting to regular squats 3X a week as mentioned.

I go just past parallel so that my hips go slightly below my knees. From what I understand, that is the best way.

I think I would experience the same pain from a leg press, but I've never tried. Just sitting in my chair here, if I push on the floor, I can feel it (not bad though, and way less than yesterday), so I don't see why I wouldn't feel it in a leg press.

I don't do leg extensions at all because I have a bad left knee and my physiotherapist told me those were bad.

I looked up what an "IT band" was haha, and that is actually exactly where the pain is (in the middle of the IT band, exactly half way between my hip and knee pretty much). How do I stretch that or make it less tight?

Where the line points is basically exactly where the pain is, fairly centralized in the middle there. Maybe a bit behind as well where the muscles overlap, which would be the charlie horse feeling I think. Definitely not all the way up/down the IT band, but that gives you an idea of where the pain is. It's either my IT band or the lateralis muscle.

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/images/itband.2.anat.gif

I googled IT Band pain, and the more I read, the more I think it's that:

" It is especially susceptible to injury when an exercise program is progressed or altered too quickly."

"In general terms, the IT band is aggravated with activities that require a lot of work by the quadriceps and combine hip and knee movements"

Both comments apply precisely to my situation haha.

[403ep3]

Have you ever done squats prior to starting 5x5? or did you just start working out more than 3x a week recently? What was your maximum weight with squats that you lifted before? If you began 5x5 with the weight of 65lbs I can't imagine that, " It is especially susceptible to injury when an exercise program is progressed or altered too quickly," is the problem because you should have been gradually introduced into the exercise.

Does your quads feel tight at all? Take a roller and stretch them out...painful as fuck but feels good once done :clap:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by 403ep3
Have you ever done squats prior to starting 5x5? or did you just start working out more than 3x a week recently? What was your maximum weight with squats that you lifted before? If you began 5x5 with the weight of 65lbs I can't imagine that, " It is especially susceptible to injury when an exercise program is progressed or altered too quickly," is the problem because you should have been gradually introduced into the exercise.

Does your quads feel tight at all? Take a roller and stretch them out...painful as fuck but feels good once done :clap:

I have never done any sort of squats nearly this intensive or regularly before. I am new to the 5X5 program in general. I used to work out 7 days a week for a few hours when I was losing weight (used to be about 35-40lbs fatter a few years ago, now I am in good shape), but it was mostly resistance cardio so I figured that was working out my legs "enough". I can tell that these squats are doing way more than I ever had before though.

I think my 65lb starting weight was too low. I was focusing more on form and after not very long it was WAY too easy. With the 115lb I feel like it's a good weight, the 25th rep feels like it's pretty hard to do, but maybe I should lower it a bit.

I stretch my quads a lot, and no they don't feel tight. The IT band area feels a little tight, and I feel the slight pain when I stand up from a chair or whatever. The pain is much less than yesterday.

I think I need to do 3 things:

1) Lower the weight a bit

2) Buy a roller

2) Roll my IT band

[403ep3]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I have never done any sort of squats nearly this intensive or regularly before. I am new to the 5X5 program in general. I used to work out 7 days a week for a few hours when I was losing weight (used to be about 35-40lbs fatter a few years ago, now I am in good shape), but it was mostly resistance cardio so I figured that was working out my legs "enough". I can tell that these squats are doing way more than I ever had before though.

I think my 65lb starting weight was too low. I was focusing more on form and after not very long it was WAY too easy. With the 115lb I feel like it's a good weight, the 25th rep feels like it's pretty hard to do, but maybe I should lower it a bit.

I stretch my quads a lot, and no they don't feel tight. The IT band area feels a little tight, and I feel the slight pain when I stand up from a chair or whatever. The pain is much less than yesterday.

I think I need to do 3 things:

1) Lower the weight a bit

2) Buy a roller

2) Roll my IT band

Your starting weight really isn't too light. There isn't really a too light unless you were pre-squatting 300lbs+ before starting the workout. I started with the 45lb olympic bar and it took a lot of patience to get to where I am today. I don't suggest really lowering the weight because that's not how 5x5 works but if you feel like it will help you with the pain then go ahead. Rollers aren't expensive so I would suggest buying one and using it before and after your workouts.

[zipdoa]

roll your IT bands religiously, eventually you'll be able to move from a foam roller to a piece of PVC pipe or a baseball.

Your knee injury may be different than mine, but I'm not seeing how leg extensions could be bad for your patella. building the quadriceps is critical in maintaining stability in the knee joint, and leg extensions are one of the prime exercises to do so. When I was doing physio for my knee injury, light weight high rep leg extensions were at the top of the list.

Also, my understanding of squatting depth is as such:

High-bar squat = ATG
Low-bar squat = parallel

Stopping at parallel on a high bar squat has the potential to put a lot of strain on your knees. Gain the flexibility to squat deep and focus on form, you'll recruit more muscle fibers and gain more strength.

In short, squat atg with the high bar technique to maximize athletic performance.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-luNR_1Ann2c/TuFTKAOD_eI/AAAAAAAAEAA/iBGDC3GLGXA/s1600/squat.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by zipdoa
roll your IT bands religiously, eventually you'll be able to move from a foam roller to a piece of PVC pipe or a baseball.

Your knee injury may be different than mine, but I'm not seeing how leg extensions could be bad for your patella. building the quadriceps is critical in maintaining stability in the knee joint, and leg extensions are one of the prime exercises to do so. When I was doing physio for my knee injury, light weight high rep leg extensions were at the top of the list.

Also, my understanding of squatting depth is as such:

High-bar squat = ATG
Low-bar squat = parallel

Stopping at parallel on a high bar squat has the potential to put a lot of strain on your knees. Gain the flexibility to squat deep and focus on form, you'll recruit more muscle fibers and gain more strength.

In short, squat atg with the high bar technique to maximize athletic performance.



I tried "rolling" my IT band with the heel of my hand, and it is extremely unpleasant lol. I will pick up a foam roller though.

My official knee injury was that I dislocated my kneecap. I landed wrong wakeboarding, and it popped out and back in. I now have like 3 times the normal movement in my knee cap when my leg is locked, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest day-to-day unless I do a ton of high impact running or similar. I was told the leg raises were bad for it, but squats and biking were ideal, which is another reason why I want to be doing squats as regularly as possible.

My squats look much like what they do in that picture, less all the muscle, the weight, and the moustache haha.

Thanks!

[austic]

Rumble Roller (http://www.roguecanada.ca/rumble-roller.php)

I call it my magician... That and my massage therapist...And Lacrosse ball...




I am broken too much I guess

[swak]

PVC pipe, roll your IT band on that! :thumbsup:
srs.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks for the help guys. I will roll my IT bands despite how unpleasant I expect it to be haha.

I'll report back after my next workout.

[lint]

start with the pvc pipe and report back.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by lint
start with the pvc pipe and report back.

I actually have something similar, it's very hard plastic resin pipe used for support poles in a storage rack. I will use that tonight and I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks!

[scboss]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Thanks for the help guys. I will roll my IT bands despite how unpleasant I expect it to be haha.

I'll report back after my next workout.

If you have never done it before it will be dirty. The chance of you having a quad injury is pretty rare. Start rolling out your IT bands every workout esp on cardio days

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by zipdoa
roll your IT bands religiously, eventually you'll be able to move from a foam roller to a piece of PVC pipe or a baseball.

Your knee injury may be different than mine, but I'm not seeing how leg extensions could be bad for your patella. building the quadriceps is critical in maintaining stability in the knee joint, and leg extensions are one of the prime exercises to do so. When I was doing physio for my knee injury, light weight high rep leg extensions were at the top of the list.

Also, my understanding of squatting depth is as such:

High-bar squat = ATG
Low-bar squat = parallel

Stopping at parallel on a high bar squat has the potential to put a lot of strain on your knees. Gain the flexibility to squat deep and focus on form, you'll recruit more muscle fibers and gain more strength.

In short, squat atg with the high bar technique to maximize athletic performance.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-luNR_1Ann2c/TuFTKAOD_eI/AAAAAAAAEAA/iBGDC3GLGXA/s1600/squat.jpg

The bands and especially the rollers will help. You might have knots which can cause the pain you're describing. Practicing stretching and mobility exercises using equipment such as foam rollers or a tennis ball(PAINFUL) will help to loosen any tense muscles or knots.

As for the ATG vs. Paralell debate: Stopping at parallel will NOT damage your knees, locking out at the top will. Studies indicate that ATG squats are in fact better for knee mobility, but in the long run might cause damage to knee cartilage, although there is no anecdotal evidence to prove this.

I've experienced the pain you're mentioning and it also might be caused from too much volume. If you're a beginner, that can be excessive. Listen to your body, not your schedule. If your quads aren't very sore, but you feel slight pain/soreness, consider a break. Usually, after 72 hours you can work the muscle out again, whether it's sore or not. Remember that it's your call, but I'd always say safety first, injuries aren't your friend. Sorry if anything sounded confusing, posting from my phone.

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^ Not confusing, and everything helps - thanks.

Well I rolled out my IT bands with a piece of pipe last night for about 10 min each. Had it not been voluntary, it would have been classified as actual torture.

Both legs feel better today but I can still feel it in my IT bands when I stand up from a chair or whatever. It's quite minor though. I can't tell if the pain is less due to the rolling, or simply time.

Tonight I'm going to do roll them before the gym, then squats again with a little bit less weight and see how it goes.

[Tej.S]

Hm, well do you feel the pain only after sitting and then getting up after a while? Does the muscle pain subdue once you've been moving around for a bit? If so, then it's just normal soreness, your fibers are still repairing. If that's the case, it wouldn't be a bad idea to take an extra rest day between workouts(unless you wanna keep grinding through the pain lol).

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Hm, well do you feel the pain only after sitting and then getting up after a while? Does the muscle pain subdue once you've been moving around for a bit? If so, then it's just normal soreness, your fibers are still repairing. If that's the case, it wouldn't be a bad idea to take an extra rest day between workouts(unless you wanna keep grinding through the pain lol).

The pain happens whenever those muscles are used, so, for example, getting up or sitting down in a chair, or doing an actual squat. Standing or sitting normally causes absolutely zero pain. Basically it feels like anything that would make the IT band tighten, I can feel.

The pain is significantly less as time goes on, but it does feel different than muscle pain, it feels like a charlie horse. I'm pretty sure it's IT band based on my reading about symptoms, causes, etc. I guess I don't know for sure though.

I'm going to roll the IT bands tonight, then work out with less weight. It will have been 48 hours since my last workout. I will see how it goes. If I still get pain, I will take a 3-4 day rest between leg workouts instead, then start up again.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


The pain happens whenever those muscles are used, so, for example, getting up or sitting down in a chair, or doing an actual squat. Standing or sitting normally causes absolutely zero pain. Basically it feels like anything that would make the IT band tighten, I can feel.

The pain is significantly less as time goes on, but it does feel different than muscle pain, it feels like a charlie horse. I'm pretty sure it's IT band based on my reading about symptoms, causes, etc. I guess I don't know for sure though.

I'm going to roll the IT bands tonight, then work out with less weight. It will have been 48 hours since my last workout. I will see how it goes. If I still get pain, I will take a 3-4 day rest between leg workouts instead, then start up again.

Haha from what you're describing, I can definitely say I've been through this. Just give your legs a little rest and you should be fine. Be sure to do the mobility exercises and what not as it will help with the pain and try to play around with your routine. This happened to me when I first started lifting and worked out my legs too hard(ie. Too much volume, or working them out too often). It also happened to me a few times when I would take a long break from lifting, then come back and hammer the sh*t out my legs lol. Like I said, experiment with your routine; less volume(most likely the cause, doing 25 reps in one set?! insanity lol), less weight(although this usually isn't the case), etc. Best of luck :thumbsup:

[403ep3]

Originally posted by Tej.S


Haha from what you're describing, I can definitely say I've been through this. Just give your legs a little rest and you should be fine. Be sure to do the mobility exercises and what not as it will help with the pain and try to play around with your routine. This happened to me when I first started lifting and worked out my legs too hard(ie. Too much volume, or working them out too often). It also happened to me a few times when I would take a long break from lifting, then come back and hammer the sh*t out my legs lol. Like I said, experiment with your routine; less volume(most likely the cause, doing 25 reps in one set?! insanity lol), less weight(although this usually isn't the case), etc. Best of luck :thumbsup:

1 set is 5 reps lol; you do 5 sets.

[Tej.S]

Oh, I skimmed it since I was on my phone lol.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Well I was about to go to the gym last night when I got offered tickets to the Flames game haha, so tonight I will report back. Also, I think I bruised my legs rolling my IT bands with that pipe because it is literally excruciating to roll them today with any kind of pressure. Not happening.

The extra day rest is probably good though. I've been doing the 5X5 every second way, but I think it says to only go 3 times a week.

The pain is 99% gone by the way - not sure if it was the waiting time, the rolling, or both. I don't expect any issues tonight.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
^^ Not confusing, and everything helps - thanks.

Well I rolled out my IT bands with a piece of pipe last night for about 10 min each. Had it not been voluntary, it would have been classified as actual torture.

Both legs feel better today but I can still feel it in my IT bands when I stand up from a chair or whatever. It's quite minor though. I can't tell if the pain is less due to the rolling, or simply time.

Tonight I'm going to do roll them before the gym, then squats again with a little bit less weight and see how it goes. Wait you used a pipe? Like a hard plastic pipe? Get a foam roller fer crying out loud - they don't cost anything.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by suntan
Wait you used a pipe? Like a hard plastic pipe? Get a foam roller fer crying out loud - they don't cost anything.

Haha yes I used a hard plastic resin pipe, similar to PVC.

My brother has a spare foam roller he will lend me for next time :rofl:.

Im pretty much 100% better though, from either time or the rolling, I'll never know. We will see after my workout tonight if it lasts.

[suntan]

Rolling really helps. It's deep tissue massage, or in your case with the pipe it's ultra-deep bone massage :rofl:

[403ep3]

Yeah maybe a deep tissue rub down might help with your pain lol. Call around!

[Mitsu3000gt]

Did my workout last night. Going in, I had basically zero pain. I did lower the weight on my squats by 20 lbs, just as a precaution (115 --> 95 lbs). I could feel the IT band pain a bit while I was doing the exercise, but not nearly to the degree of before - not sure if this was due to rolling, 2 days break, less weight, or a combination of those.

Today I'm not sore at all except for the usual muscle fatigue, so I think I will stick at that weight for a few more workouts and take it from there. My legs were still dead after, so I was still getting a pretty good workout I think.

What hurts the most now is the bruising I got from rolling my legs with a pipe :rofl:.

Anyways, thanks again for everyone's help. I didn't even know what an IT band was when I made the thread, which I assume was my problem. So far so good since the last workout.

[jaylo]

is your 115lbs including the bar or just the weights, if it's just the weights that is actually really heavy for starters :eek:

[Tej.S]

Sounds good man, glad we could help!

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by jaylo
is your 115lbs including the bar or just the weights, if it's just the weights that is actually really heavy for starters :eek:

It was 115 lbs including the 45lb bar, basically the bar + two 35 pounders.


The weight itself feels fine, I can do 5 X 5 sets with the 25th rep being difficult but doable. It felt like my muscles were up to it, but the connecting stuff/IT bands were a little to stressed, if that makes any sense. Not even sure if that's possible haha.

I'll just stick to 95lbs (including bar) for a couple more workouts before upping it - I still feel plenty sore after.

[jaylo]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


It was 115 lbs including the 45lb bar, basically the bar + two 35 pounders.


The weight itself feels fine, I can do 5 X 5 sets with the 25th rep being difficult but doable. It felt like my muscles were up to it, but the connecting stuff/IT bands were a little to stressed, if that makes any sense. Not even sure if that's possible haha.

I'll just stick to 95lbs (including bar) for a couple more workouts before upping it - I still feel plenty sore after.

I actually started with air squats for a few months before I started weighted squats and it really helped my form. I still do not have it 100% as I progress to heavier weights it is hard to keep the form.

You could benefit from a few sets of air squats, a set or two of just the bar squats, then proceed

[littledan]

can't wait for these to come in!!!

http://www.sportswarehouse.co.uk/product_images/m/561/adidas-power-perfect-weightlifting-shoe__51106_zoom.jpg

[elite]

[i**SNIP**

I don't think they would be great for squats. Anything flat soled would be much better (I do mine barefoot or in socks). If your having trouble with driving through your heels due to flexibility then just stick a 5 or 10lb plate under your heels and work on the flexibility rather then buying shoes like those for squats and never actually working on your flexibility. (I assume that the sole is on an incline like it shoes in the picture on the inside and is not just a design put on the shoe).

see:
http://www.strengthandfitnesstips.com/workouts/squat-technique-how-to-keep-your-heels-down-and-not-fall-forward/

[KRyn]

Originally posted by elite


I don't think they would be great for squats. Anything flat soled would be much better (I do mine barefoot or in socks). If your having trouble with driving through your heels due to flexibility then just stick a 5 or 10lb plate under your heels and work on the flexibility rather then buying shoes like those for squats and never actually working on your flexibility. (I assume that the sole is on an incline like it shoes in the picture on the inside and is not just a design put on the shoe).

see:
http://www.strengthandfitnesstips.com/workouts/squat-technique-how-to-keep-your-heels-down-and-not-fall-forward/

Are you suggesting squat shoes aren't good for squatting?
:confused:

Great buy, how high are the heels on those shoes? Make sure you stay under a 0.75"!

[elite]

Originally posted by KRyn


Are you suggesting squat shoes aren't good for squatting?
:confused:

Great buy, how high are the heels on those shoes? Make sure you stay under a 0.75"!

Not at all. I have no clue what shoes those are other than adidas. I just saw the inclined soles and thought they were just normal shoes and suggested to get flat soled ones. If they are indeed made for squatting then that's great but If he was having issues keeping his heels down and that is why he bought them I made the suggestion for the plates and to increase flexibility.

On a side note so I know for the future, do those shoes have soles that don't compress are they spongy like normal shoes? I have heard chuck taylor's to be the best squatting shoe other then bare feet and Olympic weightlifting shoes because of the hard flat sole.

[austic]

Originally posted by elite


Not at all. I have no clue what shoes those are other than adidas. I just saw the inclined soles and thought they were just normal shoes and suggested to get flat soled ones. If they are indeed made for squatting then that's great but If he was having issues keeping his heels down and that is why he bought them I made the suggestion for the plates and to increase flexibility.

On a side note so I know for the future, do those shoes have soles that don't compress are they spongy like normal shoes? I have heard chuck taylor's to be the best squatting shoe other then bare feet and Olympic weightlifting shoes because of the hard flat sole.
Those are OLY shoes...Powerlift trainers if I am not mistaken .6" heel from what I can tell. A few of the guys at my gym have those and they seem to like them. I love my Nike Romaleos 2 but they are almost double the cost of the powerlifts

[elite]

Originally posted by austic

Those are OLY shoes...Powerlift trainers if I am not mistaken .6" heel from what I can tell. A few of the guys at my gym have those and they seem to like them. I love my Nike Romaleos 2 but they are almost double the cost of the powerlifts

Gotcha. Just saw them on rogue and not a bad price at 90 bucks.

[scboss]

I have these exact shoes. Make a Huge difference when squatting and catching low cleans

[suntan]

Where can I buy those shoes locally? That's exactly what I've been looking for.

[KRyn]

I am unsure of any place you can buy them locally.. Maybe one of the Crossfit gyms in town?
If not order from Rogue Fitness (in Edmonton), great people to deal with.

[littledan]

the ones I picked up are the Power perfect IIs. THey are very similar to the powerlifters but have a firmer heel and 0.75" lift as opposed to the 0.6" lift on the PLs. I grabbed em off the adidas.ca website. signed up and got 15% off so they came in at 89 bucks shipped. but i got the last one in my size and now they only have super small sizes left.

[austic]

Originally posted by KRyn
I am unsure of any place you can buy them locally.. Maybe one of the Crossfit gyms in town?
If not order from Rogue Fitness (in Edmonton), great people to deal with.
I know our crossfit gym doesnt have them, I ordered mine from Rouge although it took a long time for them to get here.

[suntan]

Looks like Foot Locker sells the previous iteration, I'll try there.

[Mitsu3000gt]

So things are going pretty well for me, thanks to all your guys' advice, however I am still getting a bit of pain. My IT bands seem completely fine now, but where I'm really feeling it is exactly where the top "X" is in the below picture. Anything I can do? By the second or third sets, it starts to get quite sore - almost like a tightness. I don't want to say "sharp" or "intense" pain, as it's not THAT bad, but it is quite a bit more than any other area, and comes on strong when I am doing the exercises. I've been rolling the areas before/after my workouts with the pipe (still need to get a foam roller).

http://blog.diakadibody.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/QUAD1.jpg

[Tej.S]

Lactic acid??

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Lactic acid??

Actually I think its my hip flexor, because I feel the pain when I raise up my knee. I really don't know though. All kinds of pain I've never felt before have been randomly occurring as I keep doing squats, nothing serious though, and it's always gone in 1-2 days.

[Tej.S]

Maybe it's your squat form? Do you have any sort of a posterior or anterior pelvic tilt?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Maybe it's your squat form? Do you have any sort of a posterior or anterior pelvic tilt?

Not that I am aware of, but I will definitely pay attention to that next time. If anything there may be some front tilt.

I also read it helps to keep your feet pointed perfectly forward, use a slightly wider stance than shoulder width, and push outward with your knees a bit as you do the exercise.

I do find I have a tendency to push up with the balls of my feet rather than my heels, which might make me lean forward a bit - I wonder if that is contributing.

[brucebanner]

Everyone is going to have different opinions about stance. Personally, I stand roughly shoulder width, with my feet slightly rotated outward. Also, I squat below parallel for depth as well.

I think you have to play with your stance to see what works for you. You should definitely be pushing off your heels and not the balls of your feet though, pushing off of your heels will help you squat with proper form, instead of the forward lean you're creating off the balls of your feet.

[slinkie]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Not that I am aware of, but I will definitely pay attention to that next time. If anything there may be some front tilt.

I also read it helps to keep your feet pointed perfectly forward, use a slightly wider stance than shoulder width, and push outward with your knees a bit as you do the exercise.

I do find I have a tendency to push up with the balls of my feet rather than my heels, which might make me lean forward a bit - I wonder if that is contributing.

Hey bro, Im still pretty new to all this but a few tips that helped me on squat were:

-actively trying to keep the weight on my heels
-Put a plate or something under your toes (helped the form become natural for me)
-For me i'm pretty tall and I found angling the feet out a bit helped immensely

If you're seeing stars, you know you're doing something right!

[403ep3]

Originally posted by slinkie


Hey bro, Im still pretty new to all this but a few tips that helped me on squat were:

-actively trying to keep the weight on my heels
-Put a plate or something under your toes (helped the form become natural for me)
-For me i'm pretty tall and I found angling the feet out a bit helped immensely

If you're seeing stars, you know you're doing something right!

under your toes? should be under your heels

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

http://blog.diakadibody.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/QUAD1.jpg

Could be your hip flexor. I've injured mine from dropping into the hole too fast and bouncing back up. I've readjusted my form, and can squat relatively pain free, but I still feel it in my hip flexor =(

See if you still have the pain in front squats - when I front squat, I don't feel it at all.

[scboss]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/heavy_lifts_to_increase_mobility

read this article to give you some basic stuff. I do alot of single leg stuff to get rid of tightness. Try to even do 1 Bulgarian split squat and get below 90. If you cant then there's your problem

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^^ Yes I could do one of those. Wasn't much fun though haha.

Thanks for all the additional info guys.

Not sure if I did something different or if it's a fluke, but I squatted totally pain free yesterday, even with 10 extra lbs on the bar. I did put some little 2.5lb plates under my heels, and I don't know if that helped or not. I know that I have a tendency to lean forward and push off from the balls of my feet which I was focusing on correcting. No pain today either.

The question will be if I can continue pain-free, so we will see!

[403ep3]

Next thing you know you'll be squatting 225lbs!

[Mitsu3000gt]

I think I am officially 100% pain free now with my legs. Upped the weight again to my previous maximum and did 5X5 no problem.

Two questions though:

1) I am putting 2.5lb plates under my heels, raising them about 0.5". Is this a bad habit to get into?

2) I had a little bit of mid/upper back pain, presumably because the weight was higher than usual. Any tips to keep my back perfectly straight?

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


1) I am putting 2.5lb plates under my heels, raising them about 0.5". Is this a bad habit to get into?

This is fine, some people spend their entire careers squatting in squat shoes with an elevated heel. I suggest buying some, they are a great investment and last a long time.


Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


2) I had a little bit of mid/upper back pain, presumably because the weight was higher than usual. Any tips to keep my back perfectly straight?

Could be a few things... Do you squat high bar or low bar?
Actively flex and keep your core tight when you squat (maybe get a belt?), make sure your upper back isn't rounding when you squat (make sure to push your chest out and pull your elbows in).

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by KRyn

Could be a few things... Do you squat high bar or low bar?
Actively flex and keep your core tight when you squat (maybe get a belt?), make sure your upper back isn't rounding when you squat (make sure to push your chest out and pull your elbows in).

I put the bar kind of on my shoulder blades/traps, because they stick out when my arms are up and behind my head to hold the bar. I also use a pad on the bar. I am not taking much of the weight off with my arms, it's mostly just resting on me.

[403ep3]

You really shouldn't be taking any weight on your arms, it should just be resting on your shoulders. I can't remember how I rest it on my upper body but I'm pretty sure I rest it just below my traps. My traps are a decent size so if I rested them on that muscle it would really annoy me.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I put the bar kind of on my shoulder blades/traps, because they stick out when my arms are up and behind my head to hold the bar. I also use a pad on the bar. I am not taking much of the weight off with my arms, it's mostly just resting on me.


Yikes, you need to take the bitch pad off the bar ASAP. Using that pad is terrible and unacceptable for both men and women!

When you are getting set up, squeeze your shoulder blades back and then shrug (hold this for the duration of your set). This will help create a better shelf for the bar to rest on.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by KRyn



Yikes, you need to take the bitch pad off the bar ASAP. Using that pad is terrible and unacceptable for both men and women!

When you are getting set up, squeeze your shoulder blades back and then shrug (hold this for the duration of your set). This will help create a better shelf for the bar to rest on.

Haha, OK I will try that next time.

The reason I had the pad on the bar was the first time I tried squats sans-pad, the bar slipped and smashed the top bump of my spine, and it hurt for a week.

I was unaware it was socially unacceptable, and will remove it immediately :rofl:

[403ep3]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Haha, OK I will try that next time.

The reason I had the pad on the bar was the first time I tried squats sans-pad, the bar slipped and smashed the top bump of my spine, and it hurt for a week.

I was unaware it was socially unacceptable, and will remove it immediately :rofl:

It's actually against broscience code

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Haha, OK I will try that next time.

The reason I had the pad on the bar was the first time I tried squats sans-pad, the bar slipped and smashed the top bump of my spine, and it hurt for a week.

I was unaware it was socially unacceptable, and will remove it immediately :rofl:


Creating a good shelf for the bar to rest on is the key to keeping it from moving around on your back. I can back squat with my Olympic bar (it has no center knurling) just as well as any bar that has center knurling. Practice your squat setup even when you are warming up with just the bar and light weight. Good luck and report back!

[Mitsu3000gt]

OK I did some more squats today.

The good news: Zero leg or back pain, probably my best set yet. Upped my weight on all my other exercises successfully as well.

The bad news: Without the pad, squatting is quite painful no matter where I put the bar. It's just a lot of weight on a fairly thin bar, and it is extremely uncomfortable. I tried all sorts of bar positions and nothing is good. I kept it off my spine just fine, but it's very uncomfortable still. It's tolerable, but it sucks. I think it may have helped me keep better form though.

[403ep3]

You'll get used to it eventually. I have a decent amount of weight on the bar and I don't really notice it anymore. Your body will adjust and grow some muscles there.

[littledan]

just a quick heads up for everyone. got my olympic lifting shoes in with a 0.75" raised heel. did squats today and I was able to break parallel without experiencing my pelvis reversing or in other words the but wink or lower back rounding. so looks like ankle mobility is a major cause of my butt wink and the oly shoes helped me keep a rock solid core. would definitely recommend them if you can get em for a decent price.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
OK I did some more squats today.

The good news: Zero leg or back pain, probably my best set yet. Upped my weight on all my other exercises successfully as well.

The bad news: Without the pad, squatting is quite painful no matter where I put the bar. It's just a lot of weight on a fairly thin bar, and it is extremely uncomfortable. I tried all sorts of bar positions and nothing is good. I kept it off my spine just fine, but it's very uncomfortable still. It's tolerable, but it sucks. I think it may have helped me keep better form though.

Once you build some thickness/size in your back and mainly your traps, you'll be fine :)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tej.S


Once you build some thickness/size in your back and mainly your traps, you'll be fine :)

Yesterday went pretty well. I upped my squat weight by 10 lbs and had zero pain whatsoever. Everything is definitely feeling like normal again. Very happy about that.

I accidentally rammed the bar into the top nub of my spine again though, which was rather unpleasant. I'll keep at it I guess.

[black13]

Originally posted by littledan
just a quick heads up for everyone. got my olympic lifting shoes in with a 0.75" raised heel. did squats today and I was able to break parallel without experiencing my pelvis reversing or in other words the but wink or lower back rounding. so looks like ankle mobility is a major cause of my butt wink and the oly shoes helped me keep a rock solid core. would definitely recommend them if you can get em for a decent price.

what about doing it the way arnold did with just a piece of wood to raise the heel.
http://ericsgym.com/arnoldschwarzenegger/gym_pictures/arnold_24.jpeg

I'm thinking about doing this now that I hit two plates.

[403ep3]

I never really found any trouble when squatting heavier weights and having my back get rounded. Maybe when I get to the real "heavy" weights I might invest in those squat shoes or just take a couple of 2.5lb weights.

[ekguy]

Originally posted by 403ep3
Try taking a video because it might be due to how you squat. It could also be your muscles trying to adjust to squating 3x a week. I know when I first started to squat heavy my knees gave me a bit of pain. Now I take fish oils and joint multivitamins and feel no pain anymore. Do you go ATG or parallel?

Going to have to try those vitamins and fish oil. My knees also hurt alot now doing squats since i've bumped up the amount of weight quite a bit.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Everything is going very well. Been squatting pain-free for a couple weeks now and I can do a higher weight than I ever have before. I've also found a very precise spot on my shoulders where the bar doesn't hurt too much to avoid using the bitch pad :rofl:.

Thanks again for all the tips :thumbsup:

I am up about 8lbs body weight in 1.5 months but my clothes aren't any tighter, which is perfect. My goal is not to get "huge" but rather just stronger with less fat.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Everything is going very well. Been squatting pain-free for a couple weeks now and I can do a higher weight than I ever have before. I've also found a very precise spot on my shoulders where the bar doesn't hurt too much to avoid using the bitch pad :rofl:.

Thanks again for all the tips :thumbsup:

I am up about 8lbs body weight in 1.5 months but my clothes aren't any tighter, which is perfect. My goal is not to get "huge" but rather just stronger with less fat.


Great to hear you are avoiding the manpon! Just wait until you need to start buying pants with a smaller waist and larger leg to accommodate your fat thighs, it sucks!

[hks]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Everything is going very well. Been squatting pain-free for a couple weeks now and I can do a higher weight than I ever have before. I've also found a very precise spot on my shoulders where the bar doesn't hurt too much to avoid using the bitch pad :rofl:.

Thanks again for all the tips :thumbsup:

I am up about 8lbs body weight in 1.5 months but my clothes aren't any tighter, which is perfect. My goal is not to get "huge" but rather just stronger with less fat.

When you're back squatting, aim to put the bar on your rear deltoids. This will take away ALL the shoulder/neck pain you have from placement of the bar. It also forces you to keep your elbows down, and more importantly forces you to use your hips and abs when you're in the hole. Goodluck

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by hks


When you're back squatting, aim to put the bar on your rear deltoids. This will take away ALL the shoulder/neck pain you have from placement of the bar. It also forces you to keep your elbows down, and more importantly forces you to use your hips and abs when you're in the hole. Goodluck

http://learntosquat.com/4/4.1/image1.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

I am definitely "high bar-ing" it right now. I will try low bar tonight and see if it helps. It seems to slide off easier and put more weight on my wrists in the low position, but I'm probably doing it wrong. I'm worried I'll drop the bar behind me.

[403ep3]

Maybe try using lighter weights to practice the positioning. I can't remember what you do for squats but maybe use a plate a side for warm ups? It shouldn't be too hard to keep the bar up.. or try 10lbs lighter than what you normally do

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by 403ep3
Maybe try using lighter weights to practice the positioning. I can't remember what you do for squats but maybe use a plate a side for warm ups? It shouldn't be too hard to keep the bar up.. or try 10lbs lighter than what you normally do

I am doing 125lbs right now (bar + 2X 35 + 2X 5).

Is a plate 45lbs? If so I definitely cannot do bar + 2 plates :rofl: ....not yet at least! That is my next "step up" though. Maybe after a couple more successful 125lb workouts.

[403ep3]

btw, I hope you enjoy your new suit because you won't fit it anymore once you've been working out for several months :poosie:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by 403ep3
btw, I hope you enjoy your new suit because you won't fit it anymore once you've been working out for several months :poosie:

Haha all my dress clothes are now custom, and I cannot afford to buy it all over again....I will have to switch over to Cardio or something if I am actually getting to the point where I can't fit into my clothes due to my legs.

I really don't want to get "huge", just more toned with less fat, and the same general size as I am now. The hardest part seems to be a thin layer of low-belly fat. As of now I have a 4-pack at best lol.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I am doing 125lbs right now (bar + 2X 35 + 2X 5).

Is a plate 45lbs? If so I definitely cannot do bar + 2 plates :rofl: ....not yet at least! That is my next "step up" though. Maybe after a couple more successful 125lb workouts.

Yes a plate is 45lbs.

I do 2 plates plus bar for a combined weight of 135lbs when I am doing my squats.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Things are going great (100% of squat pain gone) but I have one question for you guys.

I am finding with my military/overhead press at 85lbs, sets 1 and 2 are easy - almost too easy. Set 3 is about right, but set 4 is a struggle, and I can barely finish set 5 without leaning back and putting my chest into it a bit. None of my other exercises are like that, and are much more "linear" as far as fatigue goes.

Any suggestions? Should I just tough it out and keep doing what I'm doing until 85lbs is easy for all 5 sets? I feel like lowering the weight would be WAY too easy for sets 1-3.

Thanks!

[brucebanner]

How long of a rest period are you taking? From the sounds of it, personally I'd keep trucking forward if your form is good, which it sounds like you are staying pretty tight.

If you're not comfortable going forward, you could drop the weight and rep out to build your endurance.

Just an idea.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Rest period is always 60 seconds between, and sometimes 90 between set 4 and 5. Thanks.

[Tej.S]

Why does rest period matter? Unless you have to be in and out of the gym within in a certain time frame, I wouldn't give a crap about rest periods. Chase performance, not fatigue.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Rest period is always 60 seconds between, and sometimes 90 between set 4 and 5. Thanks.



Originally posted by Tej.S
Why does rest period matter? Unless you have to be in and out of the gym within in a certain time frame, I wouldn't give a crap about rest periods. Chase performance, not fatigue.

Exactly. Just take longer rest for your sets as needed. Forget about time, just focus on performance as Tej suggested.