Breaking of a lease?

[Mayzon]

I am just trying to get some input/advice on this complicated situation. The rental issue is with my girl friend and not me so I will try to include what info she has told me.

She has signed a lease until the end of October 2013 but she wants to move out early as she won't be needing the place until then. The landlord originally asked her to move out at the end of July so they can look into selling the apartment. My gf then decided she wants to move out at the end of March. The lease states the tenant will owe 2 months rents if the lease is broken early. The lease also states that all utilities including cable/internet will be covered but the cable was just cancelled.

Is there any way for her to get out without having to pay 2 months rents for her moving out early? Does the landlord cancelling the cable break the lease? Does the landlord asking her to move out in July break the lease now or at the end of July?

Any help would be appreciated.

[DeleriousZ]

From what I understood when looking at stuff like that, leases in alberta are pretty cut and dry. If there isn't anything about breaking the lease in the lease, the person renting is on the hook for the entire amount of the lease until the person leasing out the place finds a replacement, or the person renting finds a suitable replacement that is approved by the landlord.

http://tenant.landlordandtenant.org/movingoutfaq/endingtenancy.aspx?id=993

Not sure if that's current or not though.

[heavyfuel]

If the landlord doesn't have her sin# and it's not gonna fuck up her credit, she should just pay the rent, clean up the place real good, and move out and the landlord can fuck off. In this market he'll find a renter in minutes anyways and he's not gonna lose any money so if the LL's gonna be a greedy piece of shit just because of a lease, fuck him/her.

[88CRX]

In before Heavyfuel responds....

edit: :rofl:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
If the landlord doesn't have her sin# and it's not gonna fuck up her credit, she should just pay the rent, clean up the place real good, and move out and the landlord can fuck off. In this market he'll find a renter in minutes anyways and he's not gonna lose any money so if the LL's gonna be a greedy piece of shit just because of a lease, fuck him/her.

Not this again...

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


Not this again...

Hey, c'mon I said leave the place real clean lol plus he's ok with her moving in July even tho the rent is till October? What's the difference? Not like he's gonna lose any money with the lineup of renters in this market

[kvg]

What would the landlord say if she said she didn't want to break the lease and will move out in October. Turn the tables a little:devil:

[Mayzon]

The LL would be the type to get every last bit out of her... I can see that bc if he wants to sell the place in the summer he won't be looking for someone to rent the place if she moves out.

Just a crappy situation. She is going to be saving money is she does move out and breaks it's early but it's just stupid bc it states 2 months rents penalty.

EDIT:
Originally posted by kvg
What would the landlord say if she said she didn't want to break the lease and will move out in October. Turn the tables a little:devil:

That is the other option we are talking about to screw them over if they want to be dicks about paying 2 months.

[DeleriousZ]

Originally posted by 88CRX
In before Heavyfuel responds....

edit: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :burnout:

[ercchry]

the landlord doesnt seem too bright.

tenant wants out in this market? good. gtfo asap, bump rent $100/month and get someone new in within 24hrs that is happy and wants to be there

[kvg]

Originally posted by Mayzon
The LL would be the type to get every last bit out of her... I can see that bc if he wants to sell the place in the summer he won't be looking for someone to rent the place if she moves out.

Just a crappy situation. She is going to be saving money is she does move out and breaks it's early but it's just stupid bc it states 2 months rents penalty.

EDIT:

That is the other option we are talking about to screw them over if they want to be dicks about paying 2 months.

Play that card and see how they respond :thumbsup:

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Mayzon
The LL would be the type to get every last bit out of her... I can see that bc if he wants to sell the place in the summer he won't be looking for someone to rent the place if she moves out.

Just a crappy situation. She is going to be saving money is she does move out and breaks it's early but it's just stupid bc it states 2 months rents penalty.

EDIT:

That is the other option we are talking about to screw them over if they want to be dicks about paying 2 months.

Does he have her sin #? Was the rental agreement properly drafted by a lawyer? Is he a responsible landlord? Are there smoke and CO2 detectors in the suite? Adequate emergency exits? If this is a nickel and dime greedy slumlord, nickel and dime him right back with safety requirement or lack thereof. Either say fuck it and leave or stay till October so he can't sell it for that much longer. It takes 2 to play a game and the one playing by the rules usually has the advantage.

[ercchry]

just for fun i asked rentfast to show me comparables around my rental house... this included rented places (not sure how long those stay up though?)

it came back with 0, yeah ZERO :nut:

[Mayzon]

Does anyone know if a LL cancels Internet and or cable if that's considered breaking the lease if it was included in the lease?

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
If the landlord doesn't have her sin# and it's not gonna fuck up her credit, she should just pay the rent, clean up the place real good, and move out and the landlord can fuck off. In this market he'll find a renter in minutes anyways and he's not gonna lose any money so if the LL's gonna be a greedy piece of shit just because of a lease, fuck him/her.

Yeah that landlord is just a scumbag expecting the renter to meet her legal and ethical expectations "just because" of that silly lease.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by Mayzon


That is the other option we are talking about to screw them over if they want to be dicks about paying 2 months.

Yeah they are such dicks expecting your girlfriend to meet her legal/contractual obligations.

So Mayzon.... if she is willing to screw over the landlord and be unethical..... what makes you thing she is ethical in your relationship with her?

[Cos]

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[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by D. Dub


Yeah that landlord is just a scumbag expecting the renter to meet her legal and ethical expectations "just because" of that silly lease.

I just can't see what the problem is, they want out early but the landlord wants them out before the lease is up anyways, there will be no loss in this hot rental market so why does the lease have to be stuck so far up the landlord's ass? Not like it's the Declaration Of Independence or anything, it's just a lease.

But hey, all that aside, OP just stay till the end of your lease. Landlord won't play ball so don't offer an inch of flexibility either. A lease is a lease and it looks like this one ends in October.

[Cos]

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[Rat Fink]

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[Mayzon]

So she finally got to talk to the land lord last night and he denied asking her to move out at the end of July... She prepared 2 letters yesterday, one stating she is moving out as per their request in July and the other in March. She handed him the March letter.

What doesn't make sense is he posted on facebook looking for a roommate from end of March forward...

I think this is going to become a huge pissing match and who did what first and let the court figure out unless they realize they were in the wrong first. :banghead:

The other idea is what Rat Fink mentioned, sublet out and cause a nightmare for the LL bc the sublet gets the same tenant rights.

[Cos]

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[FraserB]

Originally posted by Mayzon
So she finally got to talk to the land lord last night and he denied asking her to move out at the end of July... She prepared 2 letters yesterday, one stating she is moving out as per their request in July and the other in March. She handed him the March letter.

What doesn't make sense is he posted on facebook looking for a roommate from end of March forward...

I think this is going to become a huge pissing match and who did what first and let the court figure out unless they realize they were in the wrong first. :banghead:

The other idea is what Rat Fink mentioned, sublet out and cause a nightmare for the LL bc the sublet gets the same tenant rights.

You'll have to prove that he asked her to move out in July, just saying so and having you as a witness won't be enough.

Moving out in March will compel her to pay the penalty under the lease. If she wants to sublet, Cos has it right, make sure there is nothing in the lease regarding it.

How is the landlord wrong here? He offered a July move out date, which your girlfriend rejected. Offer is no longer on the table and he expects her to fulfill her legal obligation. If she chooses not to she can pay the penalties specified in the lease that she signed.

If you try and go to court over this (huge lol), you'll lose more than you gain.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by FraserB



How is the landlord wrong here? He offered a July move out date, which your girlfriend rejected. Offer is no longer on the table and he expects her to fulfill her legal obligation. If she chooses not to she can pay the penalties specified in the lease that she signed.


Exactly this -- whatever is written in the contract is what stands. It's not complicated :dunno:

[Mayzon]

She originally agreed to move out in July but realizing later that she won't the apartment after she decided to move out in March. So she did agree to July the first time but now he denies even asking.

I don't have a copy of the lease on me but it looks like we are playing by the rules and they arent doing anything in writing so we can't prove it.

She asked this morning if he would consider putting the cable and internet back on if she did have to stay until July and he said no bc its too expensive. Cable and internet is listed as "provided" on the lease and he won't pay for it.

[Xtrema]

IMO, the LL is an inflexible asshole but your GF didn't do herself any favor by breaking the lease. Don't commit to something you can't commit to. There are always places that will lease month to month.


Is there any way for her to get out without having to pay 2 months rents for her moving out early?

No, it's black and white on the lease.


Does the landlord cancelling the cable break the lease?

No, but if it's on the lease but not provided. you may have leverage to get reimbursed.



Does the landlord asking her to move out in July break the lease now or at the end of July?

All these March/July timeframe is all just all talk. Make sure you have all these notices on on paper. But since your GF is giving LL 4+ weeks, and LL is giving her 5 months, it's well within legal guideline.

[Feruk]

Landlord-tenant agreement trumps any contract. Review the sections on subletting. I believe the landlord is required to either let her sublet or make a reasonable attempt to find someone himself or has no ground to stand on when attempting to collect the April-October rent.

[FraserB]

So in a sublet situation, is the original renter on the hook for damages?

I thought that she would be on the hook for all the rent until it gets rented again, if he was trying to rent it out. So if it didn't rent until Sept, she would have to pay Apr to Sept.

[A790]

Sorry dude, if she signed a lease and wants to break it she will likely lose in small claims.

If the landlord is obeying all laws, etc. and otherwise doing things by the book you're basically hooped...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by FraserB
So in a sublet situation, is the original renter on the hook for damages?

I thought that she would be on the hook for all the rent until it gets rented again, if he was trying to rent it out. So if it didn't rent until Sept, she would have to pay Apr to Sept.

Yes on both. But most agreement will not allow sublet because the wear and tear on increased occupants.

But like ecchry said, if current contract is from Oct 2012, it's probably in LL's advantage to just get the tenant out and rent it at higher rate.

[Mayzon]

Well i guess we shall see what the LL does now that she handed him the letter saying she is out at the end of March.

If she does end up having to pay for the 2 month penalty but the LL does cancel the tv/internet, could she fight for lower monthly rent which in turn means lower penalty?

2 month penalty = $1300
No tv/internet = $XX.xx reimbursement or lower rent

New 2 month penalty = $1300 - cost of tv/internet for 2 months

Would I be correct in saying that? Either way she would be "saving" money if she didn't end up staying there but $1300 is a decent amount of money to fork over just like that.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by FraserB
So in a sublet situation, is the original renter on the hook for damages?

I thought that she would be on the hook for all the rent until it gets rented again, if he was trying to rent it out. So if it didn't rent until Sept, she would have to pay Apr to Sept.
Not sure on damages.

Yep she'd be on the hook till it's rented. But, if he doesn't make a reasonable effort to rent it and denies to let her sublet, she's off the hook I believe. In the case where he's selling, is he really going to try to rent it out for a couple months?

[A790]

Originally posted by Mayzon
Well i guess we shall see what the LL does now that she handed him the letter saying she is out at the end of March.

If she does end up having to pay for the 2 month penalty but the LL does cancel the tv/internet, could she fight for lower monthly rent which in turn means lower penalty?

2 month penalty = $1300
No tv/internet = $XX.xx reimbursement or lower rent

New 2 month penalty = $1300 - cost of tv/internet for 2 months

Would I be correct in saying that? Either way she would be "saving" money if she didn't end up staying there but $1300 is a decent amount of money to fork over just like that.
Fuck dude, remind me never to rent/sell/lend anything to you.

She could probably fight. Hopefully she'd lose so you two could learn a lesson about life and not trying to screw other people over...

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by A790

Fuck dude, remind me never to rent/sell/lend anything to you.

She could probably fight. Hopefully she'd lose so you two could learn a lesson about life and not trying to screw other people over...

+1.

I am right in the process of putting a property up for rent for the first time and I'm crossing my fingers that I never get anyone like this.

[FraserB]

Learning soooo much about the kind of people who rent in this town, makes me second guess about renting out part of my place when I buy it. Just reading over the tenacy act makes me realize that tenats have way too many ways to be sleazebags.

Do the tenants rights change if they are a "roommate"?

[A790]

Originally posted by FraserB
Do the tenants rights change if they are a "roommate"?
Yes they do. Quite a bit if I understand it correctly.

Almost every tenant I've ever had has tried to screw me over. This includes roommates. The only exceptions were Tomaz and Vagabond142, both of whom were/are great people to live with :)

[max_boost]

Originally posted by FraserB
Learning soooo much about the kind of people who rent in this town, makes me second guess about renting out part of my place when I buy it. Just reading over the tenacy act makes me realize that tenats have way too many ways to be sleazebags.

Do the tenants rights change if they are a "roommate"?

But you see, the rules are different when the roommate lives with the homeowner (you). The tenancy rules don't apply. So if they piss you off, change the locks and tell them to eff off!

[ercchry]

Originally posted by FraserB
Learning soooo much about the kind of people who rent in this town, makes me second guess about renting out part of my place when I buy it. Just reading over the tenacy act makes me realize that tenats have way too many ways to be sleazebags.

Do the tenants rights change if they are a "roommate"?

best ever:

me: hey, 30 days notice that we are moving. you have a room still if you want it

dummy: oh, alright. i'll probably just move back to my aunt's, cause i miss being coddled by my mother

15 days later...

dummy: oh, i moved out. didnt clean my bathroom, or anything... can i have half the month's rent back?

me: no, i gave you 30 days. you decided to leave early

blocks me on facebook, havent talked to him since :nut:

[FraserB]

Originally posted by max_boost


But you see, the rules are different when the roommate lives with the homeowner (you). The tenancy rules don't apply. So if they piss you off, change the locks and tell them to eff off!

WooooHooooo!:clap:

[Mayzon]

I'm not even gonna get into what you think about me. I've never had any issues with ppl who rent from me or borrow any of my stuff. I'm a reasonable guy, enough said.

I don't like taking advantage of ppl or ppl taking advantage of me and that is why I don't like the current LL my gf is residing with. We did everything in a reasonable manner and when he went to screw her over, that is when we started to find a way to get out and away from him.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Mayzon
I'm not even gonna get into what you think about me. I've never had any issues with ppl who rent from me or borrow any of my stuff. I'm a reasonable guy, enough said.

I don't like taking advantage of ppl or ppl taking advantage of me and that is why I don't like the current LL my gf is residing with. We did everything in a reasonable manner and when he went to screw her over, that is when we started to find a way to get out and away from him.

Amen.

[FraserB]

How exactly is he trying to screw her over?

[A790]

Originally posted by FraserB
How exactly is he trying to screw her over?
From what I can tell it was because the cable was cancelled.

[Mayzon]

Originally posted by A790

From what I can tell it was because the cable was cancelled.

That was the start of the issue and then it got worse when he denied asking her to leave early.

[A790]

Originally posted by Mayzon


That was the start of the issue and then it got worse when he denied asking her to leave early.
Him denying her to leave early isn't screwing her over. She is contractually bound to be there until a certain date. He offered for her to leave in July which she rejected and now wants to leave end of March. A lease isn't a formality that you can bend/break at your convenience, it's a legally binding contract.

You can't just return a car and say "sorry, don't want it anymore" and expect the financing company to just stop taking money out. Why would you expect the landlord to let you walk away and break the lease terms?

She is breaking the lease, period. You are screwing him over, period. Not the inverse. Not unless there's something that you aren't telling us/clarifying here.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by A790

Him denying her to leave early isn't screwing her over. She is contractually bound to be there until a certain date. He offered for her to leave in July which she rejected and now wants to leave end of March. A lease isn't a formality that you can bend/break at your convenience, it's a legally binding contract.


She is breaking the lease, period. You are screwing him over, period. Not the inverse. Not unless there's something that you aren't telling us/clarifying here.

Simply this and any court in the land would see it the same way.

[SilverGS]

So your GF signed a legal lease document then wanted to break it by leaving early? It is stated in the lease what the penalty is for leaving early.

Seems quite clearly stated.

Are you saying that they offered your GF to leave in July with no penalty?

At what point in this entire process did they cut the cable/internet that is part of the lease?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mayzon
Well i guess we shall see what the LL does now that she handed him the letter saying she is out at the end of March.

If she does end up having to pay for the 2 month penalty but the LL does cancel the tv/internet, could she fight for lower monthly rent which in turn means lower penalty?

2 month penalty = $1300
No tv/internet = $XX.xx reimbursement or lower rent

New 2 month penalty = $1300 - cost of tv/internet for 2 months

Would I be correct in saying that? Either way she would be "saving" money if she didn't end up staying there but $1300 is a decent amount of money to fork over just like that.

Ok, let me make this clear.

There is no dispute on the $1300. It's on the contract, you owe that for early termination.

The TV deal is pretty much chum change compared to the $1300. But I'm sure the landlord can turn around and come up with excuses to not pay back damage deposit.

Or you can pay nothing and let everything to go to small claims court and settle it there.

[Mayzon]

Originally posted by SilverGS
So your GF signed a legal lease document then wanted to break it by leaving early? It is stated in the lease what the penalty is for leaving early.

Seems quite clearly stated.

Are you saying that they offered your GF to leave in July with no penalty?

At what point in this entire process did they cut the cable/internet that is part of the lease?

She knew the penalty if she was to break the lease but the LL asked her to leave at the end of July so they could sell it. I would assume that right there would have been the end of lease bc they wanted to sell it and move on. She did agree to move out at the end of July to make it easy on him to sell but he denied even asking her, and said you can leave IF you want but owe the penalty, that's when he tried to screw her over and get an extra $1300 out of her.

[Cos]

.

[max_boost]

Wait a sec, so she's renting a room and living with the landlord?

This is interesting, have you called that 1-800 number for the Tenancy Act and explain to them the situation. I always thought it was a bit blurry when a tenant lives with the actual owner.

I can see both sides here.

The landlord side of me would be like, eff you, pay up.

The tenant side of me, why you being such a dick. I'm just gonna move out and screw it.

The rational side of me, let's work out a deal.

So many people threaten to sue, how many actually go through with it? Sometimes in life, easy come, easy go. Pay it forward. :dunno:

[Mayzon]

The guy she is renting a room from is working with his mom who is LL but essentially the same person. I did know that when you rent a room in a place and the LL lives there, the RTA has nothing to do with the lease.

I think she's just gonna end up paying the penalty to just get out and if they want to give some reimbursement for the cable/internet then she may be in luck in that case.

[bleu]

I was in a similar situation. I lived it out for with a months notice as per my roommates agreement and then got the hell out. Looking back, i shouldve left much earlier regardless if he kept my dd or not...If it gets uncomfortable...IMO it is not worth any potential savings for money.

I know the act for these tenant situations is blurred and really the owner can make up whatever he/she sees fit if they are sharing their accommodations with you.