Caffeine/Stim-free Pre-Workouts

[zipdoa]

Is anyone here using stimulant free pre-workouts? I was using Dymatize Xpand for a while but they discontinued their product.

[Tej.S]

Pretty much any nitric oxide supplement is bound to be light on stims. I'm not sure if MusclePharm's Assault is stim free, but when I took it, it was a really "feel-good", clean, energetic feel. Jack3d micro has a little bit of caffeine in it, but it also gives that clean energetic feel without the crash.

Edit: Hemavol is really good too, the pumps are f*ckin crazy!

[littledan]

bb.com has a promo going for hemavol right now. buy a 30 serving hemavol and get a free 30 servings compete. i'm gonna try that out as it has good reviews and i'll be going on a stim break right away here. just waiting for mar 3rd so I can get a fruit punch compete instead of tangy tangerines.

[Tej.S]

BB.com is crap for their shipping/delivery rates if you live in Canada(unless you don't mind waiting). Btw, compete is awesome! Tangy tangerine doesn't taste so bad. Lemon is the best flavor IMO, tastes exactly like lemonade.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Tej.S
BB.com is crap for their shipping/delivery rates if you live in Canada(unless you don't mind waiting).
It is like 5-7 business days and 10% off codes usually knock subsidize most of the shipping cost :confused:

[Tej.S]

I haven't ordered off BB.com in a long time. The site I order from offers $10-$17+ shipping and my shipment usually arrives in 2-4 days :P does anyone know if BB.com has changed their shipping rates? When I used to order stuff, shipping was like $24~.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Tej.S
I haven't ordered off BB.com in a long time. The site I order from offers $10-$17+ shipping and my shipment usually arrives in 2-4 days :P does anyone know if BB.com has changed their shipping rates? When I used to order stuff, shipping was like $24~.
Now shipping and duty are shown separate I believe, iirc it has gone down a bet, don't think I have ever paid more than about $15 for shipping. I never buy anything heavy though. They had free shipping in the fall so I got protein, 10 lbs.

[Tej.S]

Oh I see. I'll check it out, thanks for the update Schocker!

[EK69]

Originally posted by Tej.S
I haven't ordered off BB.com in a long time. The site I order from offers $10-$17+ shipping and my shipment usually arrives in 2-4 days :P does anyone know if BB.com has changed their shipping rates? When I used to order stuff, shipping was like $24~. Which site do u order from

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Pretty much any nitric oxide supplement is bound to be light on stims. I'm not sure if MusclePharm's Assault is stim free, but when I took it, it was a really "feel-good", clean, energetic feel.

I decided to try MP Assault. Have been using stim free pwo's for the past year along with giving up coffee and energy drinks for good.

Assault is a really good product, had an excellent workout and didn't feel overwhelmed. It appears to have some high quality ingredients (Creapure creatine) and is NSF compliant.

I consumed 1 full scoop at 9PM and felt wide awake until about 2AM - guess I gotta lift earlier and get used to caffeine again.

First impressions are pretty good overall, it just seems mighty expensive at $60/tub @ 750grams and each full scoop is 46grams. Will try finding it in bulk online.

Cheers, thanks for the suggestion Tej.S

[Tej.S]

No problem Zip, let me know if you ever need a review on any other PWO's. There isn't many that I haven't tried :p

[403ep3]

I'm on White flood and I enjoy the watermelon flavour. I normally work out at 10pm so I don't take it every workout. It defintely keeps me up

[1-Bar]

Assault is good. I hate having to take it on an empty stomach. Sometimes pushes my workout back. Have any issues with food + preworkout drink!?! Maybe it's just me...

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 1-Bar
Assault is good. I hate having to take it on an empty stomach. Sometimes pushes my workout back. Have any issues with food + preworkout drink!?! Maybe it's just me...

Pre-workout meal is more important that pre-workout drink to me.

I eat 7-8 times a day, religiously, so 1hr before a workout i'm always consuming a meal with complex carbs, lean protein and some veg.

If I don't eat and hit the gym... well it's just a shitty day at the gym.

If I don't eat, but drink a pre-workout and hit the gym, then it's vomit time.

[Shlade]

http://iforcenutrition.com/stack_intensehemavol.asp

MP Assault is weak in my opinion. I felt like Superpump had more kick than it.

Hemavol and Maximize is probably the best tasting/most effective pre workout supp ive taken.

[schocker]

Maybe I will try assault. Have a bit of Jack 3D and about a half tub of white flood but I am out of vitamins, omegas and apple cider so I need to order anyways. Are you guys using and intra or post workout things (not protein)?

[Shlade]

I used Anabolic halo for a while. Really liked the stuff (Post) gave me a pretty good pump for the remainder of the day

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by Shlade
I used Anabolic halo for a while. Really liked the stuff (Post) gave me a pretty good pump for the remainder of the day

Does it really work? I was kind of doubtful that it would provide all the effects that it claims, but then again they do have a pretty good ingredient profile.

[Shlade]

Yup did for me.

Ill probably have to look either online or check Popeyes/sampsons to see if they got any. GNC and sport check used to carry it but not anymore

[trollolhah]

just bought 2 containers of Dymatize Xpand caffeine-free from SVN Canada

SVN canada is a supplement company based from BC, so shipping is faster compared to BB.com

Also free shipping if you purchase 99+$

They also use a point system, where you can redeem points to save some bucks.

Cheaper than GNC, only a bit more expensive than BB.com

[schocker]

Originally posted by trollolhah
Cheaper than GNC, only a bit more expensive than BB.com
All the controlled labs items are ~50% more than BB :confused:

[403ep3]

SVN is expensive and they are always out of stuff I want:banghead:

[zipdoa]

FYI - Saw a deal on facebook (first time an ad on fb has been relevant) for MP Assault 2 for 1 @ nutrition warehouse. Searched google for a coupon code, (redbull) and ended up getting another 15% off.

6 x 800g tubs of MP Assault for $28/each shipped. $170 total for all 6.

[HiSpec]

I have a tub of MP Assault Green Apple flavour that I want to sell.
Used twice (two full scoops) and decided my body can't handle it. $40 takes it.

[1-Bar]

Originally posted by zipdoa
FYI - Saw a deal on facebook (first time an ad on fb has been relevant) for MP Assault 2 for 1 @ nutrition warehouse. Searched google for a coupon code, (redbull) and ended up getting another 15% off.

6 x 800g tubs of MP Assault for $28/each shipped. $170 total for all 6.

wow that's a smokin' deal!

[bigbadboss101]

I remember when NoExplode first came out I tried it and 1 hour into the workout my buddy wanted to go home and I wanted to stay an extra hour cuz the feeling kicking in. Since then I tried a feel things and although they might helped I haven't got the same bam feeling. Anyone find that in the product they use?
Plus all these stuff with ingredients we can't pronounce are they safe to use over a long period?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
Plus all these stuff with ingredients we can't pronounce are they safe to use over a long period?

In short, probably not, especially if the product contains 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA). Most, if not all supplements are not FDA approved - you'll find that some supplement companies will outright lie about what's in their product.

For instance, BSN's No-Xplode claimed to have a superior creatine called CEM3 (Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate), but wound up victim of a class action lawsuit when it was discovered that the creatine in No-Xplode wasn't some special ester, but likely the same cheap chinese creatine used in dozens of pre-workout supplements.

They eventually changed their label and removed any reference to CEM3.

Also, 1,3-Dimethyl (DMAA) has been linked to several deaths. It was included in many stim-heavy PWO formulas such as Jack3d, 1MR (since been reformulated), Mesomorph, and many others. You can find a complete list here:

http://hprc-online.org/dietary-supplements/files/DMAA_List.pdf
Wiki on DMAA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine

Here's my take on it:

It appears that improving ones health has taken a backseat to making strength and mass gains through any means possible. Steroid use is quite prevalent and the use of PEDs among the amateur gym enthusiasts is becoming more popular each year.

My advice is to thoroughly research any supplement you take, including each individual ingredient. Make smart decisions, ask yourself if risking your health is worth potential athletic gains.

[schocker]

Originally posted by zipdoa
Also, 1,3-Dimethyl (DMAA) has been linked to several deaths. It was included in many stim-heavy PWO formulas such as Jack3d, 1MR (since been reformulated), Mesomorph, and many others. You can find a complete list here:

http://hprc-online.org/dietary-supplements/files/DMAA_List.pdf
Wiki on DMAA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylhexanamine

I thought that has been banned and that is why everything that had it was reformulated. Old jack3d was great, new jack3d not so much.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by schocker

I thought that has been banned and that is why everything that had it was reformulated. Old jack3d was great, new jack3d not so much.

Yeah it's being phased out, but there's probably still some old stock containing DMAA. It's been banned in Canada since 2011, in the States since last year I think.

[trollolhah]

Originally posted by 403ep3
SVN is expensive and they are always out of stuff I want:banghead:

I bought from SVN:

Dymatize Xpand 2x Caffeine free x2 Combo – 74.95

Allmax Creatine 1kg – 34.95

Allmax Isoflex 5lbs x2 – 161.95

Towel – 7.95

total from SVN $259.70 with $5 coupon and free shipping.
total from BB.com w/o towel, $288.89 including the $20 shipping fee.

Just received my order from SVN today, ordered Feb 27.

Mostly depends on what you buy/quantity.

[bigbadboss101]

I ususally get protein from Supple ment canada

[403ep3]

What are your guys' thoughts on creatine?

I used to take it but have stopped because of the many, many things I have read about it.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 403ep3
What are your guys' thoughts on creatine?

I used to take it but have stopped because of the many, many things I have read about it.

Probably one of the best supplements you can take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_supplements


Creatine supplements are used by athletes, bodybuilders, wrestlers, sprinters, and others who wish to gain muscle mass, typically consuming 2 to 3 times the amount that could be obtained from a very-high-protein diet.[12]

The Mayo Clinic states that creatine has been associated with asthmatic symptoms and warns against consumption by persons with known allergies to creatine.[13]

There was once some concern that creatine supplementation could affect hydration status and heat tolerance and lead to muscle cramping and diarrhea, but recent studies have shown these concerns to be unfounded.[14][15]

There are reports of kidney damage with creatine use, such as interstitial nephritis; patients with kidney disease should avoid use of this supplement.[13]

In similar manner, liver function may be altered, and caution is advised in those with underlying liver disease, although studies have shown little or no adverse impact on kidney or liver function from oral creatine supplementation.[16]

In 2004 the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) published a record which stated that oral long-term intake of 3g pure creatine per day is risk-free.[17]

The reports of damage to the kidneys by creatine supplementation have been scientifically refuted.[18][19]

Long-term administration of large quantities of creatine is reported to increase the production of formaldehyde, which has the potential to cause serious unwanted side-effects. However, this risk is largely theoretical because urinary excretion of formaldehyde, even under heavy creatine supplementation, does not exceed normal limits.[20][21]

Extensive research has shown that oral creatine supplementation at a rate of 5 to 20 grams per day appears to be very safe and largely devoid of adverse side-effects,[22]
while at the same time effectively improving the physiological response to resistance exercise, increasing the maximal force production of muscles in both men and women.[23][24]

A meta analysis performed in 2008 found that creatine treatment resulted in no abnormal renal, hepatic, cardiac or muscle function.[25]

[trollolhah]

Haven't done creatine before can't wait to try it out.

Been stuck at some plateaus for months, really need to break the seal.

From what I've interpreted, Creatine increases the amount of water absorbed/stored near the muscles/in the body rather than being pissed out.

Decreases dehydration and increases prevention of muscles cramping due to high water volume available near the muscles/in the body

I've done many crazy things with supplements, just yesterday I had 2 scoops of caffeine-free pre-workout and 2 caps of fatburners, boy did I feel more pump.

[duaner]

Completely agree with zipoda. For me creatine and glutamine are essentials. Creatine is safe and works well. However, if you get monohydrate mix it only right before you drink it. I was in SAIT with a guy years back that would premix it at home and then drink it later in the day before working out. He ended up in hospital because it gets toxic. And, iirc, don't take it with citrus juice as it turns it into a useless compound of some sort (read that somewhere).

I've always had problem gaining weight in the gym. I first tried creatine monohydrate about 10 years ago or so and went from 185 lbs (which I had never been able to get past) to 210 lbs in about 6 weeks. Of course, with monohydrate there is some water retention, but when I stopped, I dropped to 200 and haven't looked back. Of course, that was a one time big gain but creatine will help with strength and mass gains over the long term.

I am about to start on creatine again but on this stuff (I just got 4 bottles so I hope it works lol):

Con-cret pills (http://www.fitshop.ca/con-cret-pills.html)

[duaner]

And on that note, I too am looking for a non-stim pre-workout supplement. I am almost finished my Magnum Nutraceuticals Opus but it really doesn't do much in terms of energy or endurance. I'm also considering going back to a stim one but I would rather use caffeine pills so I know just how much I'm getting.

Does the non-stim Xpand work well?

[Tej.S]

Creatine will only store water if there is water. This water is stored in the cells(makes your muscles look fuller). Remember that you have to keep yourself hydrated in order to get optimal results and also keep in mind that creatine will not take effect right away.

Zip pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. As for the DMAA, it's overrated. It can lead to death yes, but only when abused(which is the case in 90% of cases). I used to love it when I liked the original Jack3d, but since then I've found a lot better, cleaner PWO's.

If any of you guys decide to use creatine, don't fall in to the whole "loading phase" bs. You don't need to necessarily load creatine, if you do, make sure it's not longer than three days. Duaner, where are you hearing this from and what did that guy mix his creatine with? You can mix creatine in pure water and it would be fine for hours, even days(assuming it's at the right temperature). Creatine is NOT toxic. You're not supposed to mix it in a citric juice because it breaks down and turns in to creatinine and that's useless.

[zipdoa]

Keep in mind that Creatine Monohydrate is the best choice for a creatine ester. Creatine Ethyl Ester and Kre-alkalyn are inferior and tend to be more expensive.

Creatine HCL is being studied as a superior alternative to Creatine monohydrate.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Tej.S
If any of you guys decide to use creatine, don't fall in to the whole "loading phase" bs. You don't need to necessarily load creatine, if you do, make sure it's not longer than three days. Duaner, where are you hearing this from and what did that guy mix his creatine with? You can mix creatine in pure water and it would be fine for hours, even days(assuming it's at the right temperature). Creatine is NOT toxic. You're not supposed to mix it in a citric juice because it breaks down and turns in to creatinine and that's useless.
Agreed about the loading. I never did loading when I first took monohydrate and had those big gains.

As for the rest, I'm not saying creatine itself is toxic, not at all. It's quite safe. It's just that when it sits for long periods in "liquid" (I'll have to see if I can define that), then it starts to become toxic--all that chemistry stuff. Not only did that guy tell me that's why he ended up in hospital, I have read it before as well. Take it with a grain of salt until I can find something to either back that up or prove myself wrong.

And, yes, creatinine is the name of the compound I was looking for.

[Tej.S]

Ah I see. I've personally never read anything about creatine being toxic. Zip, the only thing about the HLC is that it tends to be a little harder on the stomach than the mono(for some people).

[duaner]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Ah I see. I've personally never read anything about creatine being toxic. Zip, the only thing about the HLC is that it tends to be a little harder on the stomach than the mono(for some people).
Well, the little bit of searching I have done says that creatine will eventually begin to turn into creatinine when sitting in liquid for an amount of time, but I cannot find anything on just what the length of time is. So it's quite possible the guy I knew just got it wrong or some ignorant doctor gave him incorrect information, although the slight possibility exists that it can happen.

Given that it is very hard to find evidence to back up said guy's claim, and there are thousands of people using the stuff daily, I will reiterate that creatine is safe.



Back to the OP. I just got back from Samson's (first Tuesday sale). I found that they had Xpand 2x caffeine-free, but reg price is $59.99, so even at 20% off it's a bad deal. But if anyone is desperate for some, there you go.

[littledan]

just put my order in on bb.com.

Got 2 30serving tubs of hemavol stim free preworkout
2 30 serving tubs of compete intraworkout
1 4lb myofusion elite protein powder
2 free samples of weight gainer
1 free fancy water bottle
1 free gaspari shaker cup w/ couple samples

all of that came to $119 shipped.... :thumbsup:

[brucebanner]

Just going to bump this up. What are you using these days? I've been doing some poking around and wouldn't mind some first hand info/impressions.

I currently use 1mr and really like what it does for me. The engergy, focus and I don't find I crash either since I'm generally lifting within the first hour of my day. Switching would be a good idea though.

Hemavol
Pump-Bol
Ultima
Focus xt

Among others are supposed to be good, so what's the word guys?

[schocker]

I am still using white flood/purple wraath
Almost done current tub and have one new one, then no more 100 servings from the US :rofl:

[littledan]

just fyi, the HEMAVOL and COMPETE i got through bb.com tastes like absolute shit. the hemavol mixes and leaves a bunch of hard little particles left over too. the compete tastes like cardboard asshole. do not recommend.

[Tej.S]

I agree that hema tastes like ass, but I found the compete to be just fine. I got the lemon drop flavor and it tastes EXACTLY like lemonade. Play around with the amount and your water lol.

[duaner]

How well does HemaVol work? It's 1/2 price at BB.com right now...

[2.2vtec]

I don't like purple wrath. I still have over half a containter left, does anyone want it for 15 bucks?

[AudiPWR]

wtf is the point of taking a stim-free pre-workout? take some creatine and bcaa's prior

[duaner]

Originally posted by AudiPWR
wtf is the point of taking a stim-free pre-workout? take some creatine and bcaa's prior
For the same reason as taking any pre-workout supplement--energy and focus. Creatine and bcaa's doesn't do that, at least not for me.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by duaner
How well does HemaVol work? It's 1/2 price at BB.com right now...

Pretty good IMO. It varies for each person. It doesn't taste very well(if you're a girl and need it to be good tasting), and it's kind of grainy.

[zipdoa]

I'm on tub #5 of assault... it's good shit. I found them on sale @ $28/bottle online.

[duaner]

Originally posted by zipdoa
I'm on tub #5 of assault... it's good shit. I found them on sale @ $28/bottle online.
Looking at the ingredients, that looks pretty good. I still have a lot of Con-Cret pills left so I'm trying to avoid any additional sources of creatine.

I did pick up some other goodies today though. Hopefully things don't get delayed at the border for too long.

[Tej.S]

Banana + 1 or 2 granola bars = awesome PWO :D

[duaner]

I try and have a banana every time. Works wonders for stamina.

[Mogg]

Originally posted by duaner
I try and have a banana every time. Works wonders for stamina.

This!
I was very surprised at what it does for me .

[brucebanner]

See if I can find sample packs of different things. I try not to use preworkout too much when I'm days off but at work it's pretty much needed. I get up around 2:45-3am and head down to the gym, so I need a pick me up haha. That's why I like 1mr so much. I don't eat in the morning until 60~ minutes after my workout, so the banana isn't really an option because I'm not getting up earlier haha.

[civic_rida]

im using.
Craze during the week and Mr. Hyde on weekends.

[austic]

I use White Flood but really only on the days that i feel like tired or out of it. I find it just gives me a bit more energy