Do you really need that big wing on your FWD car? According to Audi, yes you do...

[zipdoa]

In this case anyway... TT RS - apparently fastest in FWD guise.. check it out!

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/03/recalibrating-fwd-fast-the-heretical-tt-rs/

http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/034Motorsports_Audi_TT-RS-003.jpg

HTv0_wOTR3k

[Darell_n]

TTs have as crappy of aerodynamics as the Beatle. It takes all means possible to keep them on the ground.

[syritis]

it just seems to me that 1% of drivers can push their FWD cars hard enough that they have issue keeping traction with rear wheels.

as opposed to RWD cars where down force = traction.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by syritis
it just seems to me that 1% of drivers can push their FWD cars hard enough that they have issue keeping traction with rear wheels.

as opposed to RWD cars where down force = traction.

Downforce always means traction for the car, doesn't matter what the drivetrain layout is.
The downforce is for taking corners as fast as possible which of course involves all four tires. FWD/RWD/AWD makes no difference, they all need downforce just as much to be fast through the turns.
Especially with the way race cars are setup, even a FWD one would likely have no problems kicking the rear end out.
Just not from too much throttle obviously. :D

When it comes to street cars though, big wings are just as ridiculous on a FWD car as it is on a RWD car.
Either way, your not going to be needing it.

[urrforce]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


When it comes to street cars though, big wings are just as ridiculous on a FWD car as it is on a RWD car.
Either way, your not going to be needing it.



but they look sooooooo cool lol

[revelations]

Big wings no, but I was under the impression that some vehicles actually gain highway mileage with a small lip/spoiler.

[xnvy]

I remember watching the onboard cam of that car during the 25 Hours of Thunderhill. That car is beastly. . .

[Darell_n]

Any bubble shaped car produces massive lift on the rear end, even at highway speeds. The original TT never came with a spoiler until everyone started crashing them. Then Audi retrofit them for free to existing owners.

[syritis]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


Downforce always means traction for the car, doesn't matter what the drivetrain layout is.
The downforce is for taking corners as fast as possible which of course involves all four tires. FWD/RWD/AWD makes no difference, they all need downforce just as much to be fast through the turns.
Especially with the way race cars are setup, even a FWD one would likely have no problems kicking the rear end out.
Just not from too much throttle obviously. :D

When it comes to street cars though, big wings are just as ridiculous on a FWD car as it is on a RWD car.
Either way, your not going to be needing it.

downforce at the cost of aerodynamic drag. for FWD cars most drivers aren't skilled enough to push the car enough to have the rear wheels kick out before the front lose grip. there frost the aero drag isn't worth it except for the 1% of drivers. them being the pro drivers and teams.

as for RWD the gains of downforce are easily attained buy most driver. more downforce = more traction = more throttle = faster.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by syritis


downforce at the cost of aerodynamic drag. for FWD cars most drivers aren't skilled enough to push the car enough to have the rear wheels kick out before the front lose grip. there frost the aero drag isn't worth it except for the 1% of drivers. them being the pro drivers and teams.

as for RWD the gains of downforce are easily attained buy most driver. more downforce = more traction = more throttle = faster.

I was mostly talking about race cars, except for the last part of my post.

Aside from very high speed race tracks with minimal low speed sections, downforce will always be worth the extra drag.
There's a reason why race teams are constantly trying to get as much of it as possible through any means they can without breaking the rules.
Even on the high speed tracks they are still running plenty of downforce.

And no you don't have to be a pro driver to take advantage of more downforce..... on any drivetrain layout.
You don't need to be rubbing elbows with the best of them to take advantage of more grip. Any driver, even the crap ones (especially the crap ones) can use more grip.

Downforce isn't some magical thing that only works on cars that bring their power to the rear.
It's all in the name of extra grip and every car can use that, on both the front and rear....... no matter the drivetrain layout.
And to be fast you need *all* tires to grip. Tires sliding is speed/time being wasted, this goes for any car.

[Xtrema]

If that's a TT-RS, its AWD system is 50/50 split between front and rear. So big ass spoiler would help.

[syritis]

Pro teams yes. the amount of downforce they're looking for is extreme. just look at world time attack cars. I completely agree that these cars are set up and driven so well that the added downforce is crucial to the balance of the car.

however with grassroots racing and even some pro classes adding a rear wing, without addign any front downforce throws the balance of the car way off. so they would be addign drag without takign advantage of the added rear downfoce thus that would make their cars slower. their front tires would wash out far far before the rears.

and like you said with high speed tracks, adding a spoiler to my RX7 didn't improve my times very much. I was 20kms slower at the end of the front straight and that added time was difficult to make up on the rest of the track with the added rear traction even in a RWD car.

i agree with you that down force equals traction. but most weekend racers in FWD cars do not benefit from that added traction enough to surpass the cost of aero drag.

[jsn]

Originally posted by Xtrema
If that's a TT-RS, its AWD system is 50/50 split between front and rear. So big ass spoiler would help.

Link's down, but I believe they said they set it up to be FWD so it's not running the AWD the normal TT-RS has.

[xnvy]

It is front wheel drive. Link. (http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar)

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by xnvy
It is front wheel drive. Link. (http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar)

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17lbap0ht15tpjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

lol from the comment section.

[DeleriousZ]

Yep it's FWD. Check out the speedhunters article.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/03/recalibrating-fwd-fast-the-heretical-tt-rs/

[R!zz0]

At least the Audi looks good. I know a girl who's got a huge wing on her 98 accord coupe (Similar to the pic above) and spinners :eek:

[kobe tai]

Originally posted by syritis

however with grassroots racing and even some pro classes adding a rear wing, without addign any front downforce throws the balance of the car way off. so they would be addign drag without takign advantage of the added rear downfoce thus that would make their cars slower. their front tires would wash out far far before the rears.

and like you said with high speed tracks, adding a spoiler to my RX7 didn't improve my times very much. I was 20kms slower at the end of the front straight and that added time was difficult to make up on the rest of the track with the added rear traction even in a RWD car.

i agree with you that down force equals traction. but most weekend racers in FWD cars do not benefit from that added traction enough to surpass the cost of aero drag.

Agree and disagree with you there. Even on slow to medium speed tracks the addition of a rear wing COMBINED with a front sliptter can help gain grip on a fwd vehicle. The wing helps a lot during braking as well by maximizing grip over the light rear wheels. The key is finding balance where both front and rear grip is maximized with combination of front and rear aero. And drag can be minimized by properly adjusted angle of attack.