PDA

View Full Version : Would you be interested in aftermarket camless technology?



forbiddenera
03-02-2013, 12:33 AM
I am curious to see if people here would be interested in such a thing if it were to exist. As far as theoretical performance mods, I think this would be quote cool.

Such a system could potentially:
- allow for control and programming of valve lift, duration, timing, lift profiles at any RPM
- eliminate timing belt, cams and associated losses
- removes need for throttle body and eliminates pumping losses
- control each valve in a cylinder individually allowing good swirl and charge control
- start and stop motor electronically without a starter
- valves control engine speed
- actively deactivate cylinders as needed
- possible to switch from 4 stroke to 2 stroke mode
- can tune for power, fuel economy or emissions
- advanced idle control, make it sound like an aggressive race cam at idle for fun or always have a perfectly smooth idle
- increase max RPM (no more conventional valve train and rev it as high as your bottom will go or is sensible)

I guess the main question I am asking, directed at those who mod for power or fuel economy or racing or whatever, is how interested would you be in such a system if it could provide most of those.features or more, how much would thou pay, what kind of scenario would be worth it (race, street) and if it could be a valuable tuning product?

Assume that the system would come in a kit, likely priced based on how many valves your engine has and what features you need, come with all the parts required to convert your head/engine, valve actuators, wires, computer, sensors, software and manual. Suppose you could tune it like Hondata or chrome and that kits would be available for most popular SOHC and DOHC motors, eg d series. b series. 2jz, etc.. just guessing it might be more popular with tuners.

what do you think? were starting to see such systems begin to be integrated into newer cars and motors (eg fiat multiair) and I am wondering if a complete, advanced, fully featured aftermarket version would be popular. I've heard some people say it's the holy grail of tuning and others say that even with a flawless well performing system that they'd keep their cams.

revelations
03-02-2013, 12:46 PM
100% camless is definitely the way of the future, esp with the obvious appeals that you mentioned - however auto makers have spent untold millions trying to develop this technology without much success. Several hybrid attempts have resulted, like Multiair.

If the racing groups havent been able to make this work, its unlikely that well see anything - either OEM or aftermarket available soon - unless of course youve managed to solve the problems automakers couldnt.

Valeo is close though:

http://green.autoblog.com/2006/12/12/valeo-has-customers-for-camless-engine-with-smart-valve-actuati/

TYMSMNY
03-02-2013, 12:57 PM
Read somewhere that Konenigsegg was developing an efficient cam-less engine. It'll trickle down in the next 30 years.

How would after market work? fully and complete disassembly of the engine? What would something like that cost and would it be worth it?

lowsaturn
03-02-2013, 01:08 PM
Bch5B23_pu0

schocker
03-02-2013, 02:26 PM
I think the prospect of it being equipped in future cars is neat but it would probably not be cost effective to modify into an existing engine.

jacky4566
03-02-2013, 03:31 PM
I think programming for aftermarket would be a nightmare. So many variables. And if your using an interfacing engine i would constantly be worried about crashing the valve.

rage2
03-02-2013, 04:42 PM
Engine manufacturers have been trying to solve this holy grail of internal combustion engine for nearly a century. If you have a working electronically controlled direct valve actuation system, you wouldn't be building kits for retrofitting cars. You would be patenting, and licensing the technology to manufacturers for billions of dollars lol.

Maxx Mazda
03-02-2013, 04:50 PM
What's the theory behind this? I'm guessing instead of cams and shit each valve would have some sort of solenoid that would open and close the valve electronically?

forbiddenera
03-02-2013, 04:55 PM
My question wasn't weather it was feasible or possible, or what issues there would be. My question was, IF such a system was suddenly available aftermarket and DID work.very well, would you be interested and what would it be worth to you in that case.

Such a system would involve removing the cams and conventional valve train, install new valve actuators in your existing head, wiring it up and tuning it. Each kit would be designed for a popular engine and tuned for it out of the box.

If it was that simple (for the customer/modder/installer), would you be interested? And, at what price point would it be worth it to you?

I am asking as I am privy to some information on a possible up and coming system similar to what I've described. I believe a press release will be issued soon and I will link it, but in the meantime, discuss!

forbiddenera
03-02-2013, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by rage2
Engine manufacturers have been trying to solve this holy grail of internal combustion engine for nearly a century. If you have a working electronically controlled direct valve actuation system, you wouldn't be building kits for retrofitting cars. You would be patenting, and licensing the technology to manufacturers for billions of dollars lol.

The info I have states possibilities of both, more likely leaning toward what you say but I think the possibility of it trickling down is definitely there from what I've heard.

Darell_n
03-02-2013, 05:17 PM
So a $6000 kit for a $1000 engine? In reality there would be no interest when there are turbos and nitrous cheaply available to retrofit any engine with 10x the benefits. That being said, camless engines are the only way to go for future piston engines.

Kramerica
03-02-2013, 05:53 PM
I can't even see this being an aftermarket conversion worth doing. for the amount of custom work installing something like this and adapting the valve cover and everything else you may as well buy a turbo, new pistions and tune the engine.

forbiddenera
03-02-2013, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
What's the theory behind this? I'm guessing instead of cams and shit each valve would have some sort of solenoid that would open and close the valve electronically?

A solenoid would not be the best choice as its usually just open/close. The Koenigsegg system uses pressurized air to actuate the valves and likely solenoid to run the pneumatic valves.

The system I am talking about is being designed to be 100% electronic, no hydraulics or pneumatics.

Basically the theory is.a computer will monitor engine angle from a sensor or the main computer and use that data along with a map based on engine load, speed, demand, etc, to pick the best actuation profile, which gets amplified and sent to each electronic valve actuator which will respond to said profile.

That koenigsegg.video is good, explains the ideas behind it well.

forbiddenera
03-02-2013, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Kramerica
I can't even see this being an aftermarket conversion worth doing. for the amount of custom work installing something like this and adapting the valve cover and everything else you may as well buy a turbo, new pistions and tune the engine.

Yes, and after you do all that, wouldn't you want to control the valves?

It would either come as a kit with everything needed to adapt your specific engine, or you would be able to send.your head in for modification, or perhaps fully fabbed heads will be for sale for popular motors. Which would you prefer?

I'm told for some motors, you will have to remove cams, timing belt, valvetrain, install the e-valves (bolt in), connect the wires, run a harness to the computer and mount it, install a crank sensor and connect a pig harness to your ecu to give the computer more data for better performance. Kit would come with a new valve cover filling cam holes and providing wire routing etc. Then load your engine basemap onto the computer.

Doesn't sound much more involved than installing a turbo...

Rat Fink
03-02-2013, 08:31 PM
.

HO2S
03-02-2013, 10:08 PM
If some one does make such a kit one day, I would like to see how they would merge the two wire communication buss of today with the fiber optic buss that this system would run off.

zieg
03-02-2013, 11:41 PM
I loled at the part about 4 stroke to 2 stroke conversion. :rofl:

Maxx Mazda
03-03-2013, 06:54 AM
Without a camshaft, how do you plan to allow sequential fuel injection and ignition? A crank sensor alone does not provide enough information for full sequential. You would still need some sort of pickup driven at 1/2 crank rotation speed in order for the ECU to calculate injection timing etc.

What's your plan for that?

Alak
03-03-2013, 01:14 PM
Jacobs Brakes on big diesel trucks use oil pressure controlled by a solenoid to actuate little pistons on the exhaust valves while the cylinder is on the compression stroke. That is the sound you hear when they decelerate.

DeleriousZ
03-03-2013, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by HO2S
If some one does make such a kit one day, I would like to see how they would merge the two wire communication buss of today with the fiber optic buss that this system would run off.

Digital signal that's interpreted by a controller on each valve driver? Might be overcomplicated.

HO2S
03-03-2013, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
Without a camshaft, how do you plan to allow sequential fuel injection and ignition? A crank sensor alone does not provide enough information for full sequential. You would still need some sort of pickup driven at 1/2 crank rotation speed in order for the ECU to calculate injection timing etc.

What's your plan for that?
The firing order is programmed into the ecu. With out a cmp input you will get a long crank, once the ecu figures out were cylinder 1 is from the ckp sensor the engine will fire and run. Well at least on gm vehicles.

HO2S
03-03-2013, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by DeleriousZ


Digital signal that's interpreted by a controller on each valve driver? Might be overcomplicated.

Integrating the system into the vehicle network will be the problem. Right now vehicles have a slow speed bus and I high speed bus. Fiber optic systems have only one bus for everything. Getting all of these systems to work together would be brutal.

Maxx Mazda
03-03-2013, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by HO2S

The firing order is programmed into the ecu. With out a cmp input you will get a long crank, once the ecu figures out were cylinder 1 is from the ckp sensor the engine will fire and run. Well at least on gm vehicles.

How will it figure out where cylinder 1 is though? It will be able to tell when it's at TDC, but TDC on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke? Thats why a synchronizing signal is needed from a CMP sensor, etc. THe only way it might work with just a crank sensor is if you ran wasted spark batch injection, and if you do that, there goes your fuel economy and performance.

AE92_TreunoSC
03-03-2013, 11:17 PM
GM's can figure out TDC without CKP sensors, supposedly from coil voltage after a few cranks. It then goes into batch firing with waste spark as mentioned. Tested it and its true. At least on the 3.5 V6

forbiddenera
03-04-2013, 03:06 AM
I don't have all the details on integration yet, I have heard that it may be a full ignition, fuel and valve package as a possibility in one of the designs to accommodate direct injection with it for full control on motor w/out GDI.

I've been told the first prototype will likely be installed on a Honda b18.

There is no optical connections in this design. I don't know if its going to be its own self-contained ecu or if it will piggyback at this time but I will try to find out. Currently it is being aimed at auto manufacturers but an aftermarket version is being considered as the prototype will be designed as an aftermarket mod to an existing motor.

Apparently there is at least a few different actuator designs that are mostly based off voice coil principals and seem to have promise of running up to 16,000rpm 4 stroke and 8,000rpm 2 stroke. Different designs are being tested because while some designs can open/close very fast with little force, they are unable to open half way or follow specific profiles which is a primary goal of the project.

As I said I don't have all the details yet but I'm sure it will be a little more complex than just a Crank sensor, just going on what I have saying that it.will be reasonable.

Darell_n
03-04-2013, 07:53 AM
Chrysler uses an odd tooth pattern on the crank so it knows the position of things very quickly. It's not rocket science guys. Lack of a cam signal is not an issue.

HO2S
03-04-2013, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Maxx Mazda


How will it figure out where cylinder 1 is though? It will be able to tell when it's at TDC, but TDC on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke? Thats why a synchronizing signal is needed from a CMP sensor, etc. THe only way it might work with just a crank sensor is if you ran wasted spark batch injection, and if you do that, there goes your fuel economy and performance.
Thats why you get a long crank, It will fire the injector and the plug at tdc. When the ckp sensor picks up a rpm increase the pcm just figured out the engine is on the power stroke.

forbiddenera
03-04-2013, 08:20 PM
If anything, the cycle will be governed by the system, it is a target feature to be able to.run certain engines on a 2 stroke cycle instead of four, either way as long as spark and fuel are timed in sync with the controller, everything should work, right?

HO2S
03-04-2013, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by forbiddenera
I don't have all the details on integration yet, I have heard that it may be a full ignition, fuel and valve package as a possibility in one of the designs to accommodate direct injection with it for full control on motor w/out GDI.

I've been told the first prototype will likely be installed on a Honda b18.

There is no optical connections in this design. I don't know if its going to be its own self-contained ecu or if it will piggyback at this time but I will try to find out. Currently it is being aimed at auto manufacturers but an aftermarket version is being considered as the prototype will be designed as an aftermarket mod to an existing motor.

Apparently there is at least a few different actuator designs that are mostly based off voice coil principals and seem to have promise of running up to 16,000rpm 4 stroke and 8,000rpm 2 stroke. Different designs are being tested because while some designs can open/close very fast with little force, they are unable to open half way or follow specific profiles which is a primary goal of the project.

As I said I don't have all the details yet but I'm sure it will be a little more complex than just a Crank sensor, just going on what I have saying that it.will be reasonable.

What company is this?
The vehicle manufactures them self's are trying to build this system. And they have very big bank accounts.
I'm have a really hard time getting my head around spending thousands of dollars building this system then charging thousands for it. Then as your prototype putting it on a 20 year old engine. This makes no sense at all. Just as stated before this is the holy grail.

The reason why I brought up fiber optics, is because this system will have to run off it. Right now vehicle communications are at about 500kb/s. And its not fast enough with a camshaft. In the next 5 to 10 years almost every vehicle produced will be running off fiber optics. It's already in production right now.

Their is a lot more to making a engine run than fuel, compression and spark. It is not longer just one computer. Its many that talk to each other. If you don't know what you are doing it is going to get expensive really fast. If you start fucking with things you can activate the anti chop shop function in the network that will lock every module in the car. It usually takes $10 000 to $30 000 to fix.

garyb
03-05-2013, 12:20 AM
Surprised no one mentioned anything about the water pump, oil pump ect, depending on the motor obviously but with a b18b as the test motor you'll need a new system to run these as well.

forbiddenera
03-06-2013, 09:22 PM
For simplicity, they will likely run off a custom belt, although electric motor control is not out of the question.

The people behind this are engineers and not just backyard mechanics brainstorming over beer. Everyone involved knows what they are doing.

I am charged with writing the control software. It hasn't been officially decided yet but either the control unit will be a piggyback taking control of the motor, or will be a two way system using an existing ecu in collaboration with the control unit.

The reason said motor was chosen as the test bed is because it's relatively simple, popular and due to the dize of the valves and their mass.

Simply put, it's only a platform for a proof of concept. Once it can be started and run the valves accurately to at least 8000 RPM - then we will have proof & test data needed to take it from there.

Rat Fink
03-06-2013, 10:18 PM
.

Stewjoe
03-06-2013, 10:44 PM
I would walk barefoot on lego for camless technology!

e31
03-07-2013, 03:35 AM
Just wondering, how much force does your driver impart on a single valve? I won't be troubled to do the full calculations at this hour, however I don't think I've seen a solenoid strong enough and small enough to open an exhaust valve. In order to work using purely electromechanical means (voice coil as mentioned) i'd say you've solved superconductivity not at room temperature, but at engine bay temperature!

More detailed calculations are required before my "curiosity" will be satisfied.

revelations
03-07-2013, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by e31
Just wondering, how much force does your driver impart on a single valve? I won't be troubled to do the full calculations at this hour, however I don't think I've seen a solenoid strong enough and small enough to open an exhaust valve. In order to work using purely electromechanical means (voice coil as mentioned) i'd say you've solved superconductivity not at room temperature, but at engine bay temperature!

More detailed calculations are required before my "curiosity" will be satisfied.

Koenigsegg have beeen using pneumatic-electric valves in their setup for about 60,000 kms. Sounds like thats they way to start the implementation and then move to all electric later on in development.

Also, the video highlights one other interesting aspect which is engine compression brake air recovery - that is using the engine to pump air into a tank under deceleration which then can be recovered to aid in acceleration.

The system promises 20-30% mileage improvement alone with with the valve setup and probably another 10-20% in typical city driving (stop and go) combined with the recovery setup. :eek:


Who needs hybrids anymore ??? Use this in a TDI diesel !!

forbiddenera
03-08-2013, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by e31
Just wondering, how much force does your driver impart on a single valve? I won't be troubled to do the full calculations at this hour, however I don't think I've seen a solenoid strong enough and small enough to open an exhaust valve. In order to work using purely electromechanical means (voice coil as mentioned) i'd say you've solved superconductivity not at room temperature, but at engine bay temperature!

More detailed calculations are required before my "curiosity" will be satisfied.

I'd like to see your calculations. I do know that the design isn't just a typical voice coil / solenoid but I would like to see what you think as far as required force goes.

As soon as I get some more details on the design I will post them (within what I'm allowed)..

HO2S
03-08-2013, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by forbiddenera
For simplicity, they will likely run off a custom belt, although electric motor control is not out of the question.

The people behind this are engineers and not just backyard mechanics brainstorming over beer. Everyone involved knows what they are doing.

I am charged with writing the control software. It hasn't been officially decided yet but either the control unit will be a piggyback taking control of the motor, or will be a two way system using an existing ecu in collaboration with the control unit.

The reason said motor was chosen as the test bed is because it's relatively simple, popular and due to the dize of the valves and their mass.

Simply put, it's only a platform for a proof of concept. Once it can be started and run the valves accurately to at least 8000 RPM - then we will have proof & test data needed to take it from there.

Your target is to sell this set up to manufactures then to the aftermarket yes?
Your best case scenario is a manufacture buys your coil/solenoid off you for half of what you got into it then tells you to beat it. From what you have said you are at about a mid 90's technology level for automotives. Once you move up into OBDII, EOBD, and CAN bus your learning curve is going to get very steep. Better start buying as many factory scan tools as you can, your going to need them.

94boosted
03-08-2013, 01:04 PM
To answer your original question:

Auto manufacturers yes, aftermarket no.

The cost of such a system as well as well as the complexity of the installation on any modern car would far outweigh the benefits. The only people that could afford such a system aftermarket and ahve the know-ho to get the absolute most out of it would be big budget race teams. It's an interesting concept but I think it's still a long ways away from being feasible and relatively affordable, besides current cam phasing technology as well as other systems such as Fiat's Multiair are pretty impressive.

Hasn't pretty much all automotive technology followed this path; Formula 1->Exotic Cars->Luxury Cars->Aftermarket->Mainstream Cars? And F1 hasn't figured out camless technology yet so....

jacky4566
03-08-2013, 01:15 PM
Since you changing so much about the engine shouldn't developing a standalone system be much better solution. This way your system is more adaptable to other engines and you only need to wire up the extra stuff like the mr. fusion that's going to power this thing. jokes aside look at the honda b series ECU, your replacing, overriding or removing 90% of the connections.

e31
03-08-2013, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by revelations

Koenigsegg have been using pneumatic-electric valves in their setup for about 60,000 kms. Sounds like thats they way to start the implementation and then move to all electric later on in development.

Also, the video highlights one other interesting aspect which is engine compression brake air recovery - that is using the engine to pump air into a tank under deceleration which then can be recovered to aid in acceleration.


1. Yes, Pneumatic-electric valves are a solution, as are hydraulic-electric designs. The main thing is that a purely electrical solution is not presently feasible (not strong enough/too large).

2. Engine compression recovery is a novel idea, however maximum pressures involved in a single stage compressor (the engine cylinder) are not very useful. Think hotdog compressor & nailgun, not driving an axle with a pneumatic motor. This would be possible on present day engines with cylinder deactivation (and with camshafts).

kvg
03-08-2013, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by 94boosted


Hasn't pretty much all automotive technology followed this path; Formula 1->Exotic Cars->Luxury Cars->Aftermarket->Mainstream Cars? And F1 hasn't figured out camless technology yet so....


:closed:

jacky4566
03-08-2013, 05:31 PM
Not closed. I would like to see OPs product.
The question was to gauge the interest and estimate pricing.

kvg
03-08-2013, 05:40 PM
I would love to see done and forbiddenera become a rich man, but this is a really tall order:dunno:

ercchry
03-08-2013, 05:49 PM
you guys do remember who this guy is... right?

kvg
03-08-2013, 06:18 PM
nope, fill me in
:confused:

ercchry
03-08-2013, 06:55 PM
http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/community-sponsered-car/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349248

ercchry
03-08-2013, 06:57 PM
or this classic :rofl:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/need-a-favor-an-am-willing-to-pay/showthread.php?s=&threadid=355722

kvg
03-08-2013, 07:14 PM
Oh ya, that was entertaining:rofl:

Toma
03-08-2013, 07:26 PM
Depends on cost. For a serious competitive engine.... fuck yeah.....that would be sick.

For a street motor... would have to balance out cost with performance gains.

Would love to see it.

forbiddenera
03-08-2013, 10:52 PM
First off, I never once said I was the developer. I am just involved to write software.

Secondly, let's leave my past personal issues out of this discussion. If every time anyone posted a thread or started a discussion or introduced a new idea, someone gathered embarrassing things from their past to attempt to embarass and discredit them, society would fail pretty quick. I'm sure even Einstein had his moments.

Thirdly, to clear things up, I thought having the community build a car was an interesting idea and I was willing to DONATE my own car to the cause. I have been a software developer for a very long time and I was curious to see how the quite successful open software model might apply in a real world situation. It's a shame that peoples immaturity brought it down to a level where people thought I was just trying to scam free parts. I wasn't, it was a social experiment and well, humanity failed. Instead of even considering the concept and even having a remotely intelligent conversation about it, it was picked apart.

I know this is a forum and that a good number of people enjoy picking things apart.

Now, all that aside, can we please resume having an intelligent discussion? Thanks.

PS. The fact that you put in the effort to remember all that, dig it up, and post it, irrelevantly, says a lot.

ercchry
03-08-2013, 10:59 PM
that i have a fantastic memory? :poosie:

forbiddenera
03-08-2013, 11:21 PM
Okay, back to discussion.

Again, it hasn't been decided whether it will be a full standalone or piggyback on an existing ECU.

The test engine was chosen for it's simplicity, popularity and valve mass and size.

Again, I am simply writing software for the system.

I do know that 100% electromotive actuation is the goal and that there are some innovative actuator designs being tested.

They are also considering other methods, such as pneumatics (like koenigsegg) or hydraulics (like lotus cyl head simulator).

There is a very good chance that some version will be made available aftermarket and.they're trying for a price point that is reasonable.


This is just one of many technologies being explored by this company apparently, I just wanted to see what beyonders thought about it, I personally think it's cool.

They're also looking at variable.compression ratios, electromagnetic suspension, standalone computers and.integrated computer systems for custom systems & classic car updates, like the ability to tune/change things on the fly on a built in display as well as offering many options for control and display, like replacing a gauge cluster with an OLED display providing any level of feedback to the driver but also able to mimic stock gauges or custom designs.

forbiddenera
03-08-2013, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by ercchry
that i have a fantastic memory? :poosie:



LOL.. Yeah..

kvg
03-08-2013, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by ercchry
that i have a fantastic memory? :poosie:

Your like Rain man for remembering threads:clap:

e31
03-09-2013, 12:10 AM
Dammit, I was totally caught in a troll thread (now I remember reading the other threads, wow). It's a shame I actually wasted time calculating exhaust valve activation pressures.

forbiddenera, stop being a fucking putz and wasting peoples time.

thanks for the heads-up ercchry.

revelations
03-09-2013, 12:19 AM
Troll or not, I learned a lot more about the technology in this thread :dunno:

Unknown303
03-09-2013, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by revelations
Troll or not, I learned a lot more about the technology in this thread :dunno:

The koenigsegg video is the best thing I've watched in a long time. SO amazing the work that company is doing.

forbiddenera
03-09-2013, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by e31
Dammit, I was totally caught in a troll thread (now I remember reading the other threads, wow). It's a shame I actually wasted time calculating exhaust valve activation pressures.

forbiddenera, stop being a fucking putz and wasting peoples time.

thanks for the heads-up ercchry.

Jesus fucking Christ!

How am I wasting time by asking if people would be interested? I never claimed to be the designer or inventor or any of that.

Please, read what I wrote. I am simply writing software for a company researching this technology and as I am told may have a reasonable solution, so I asked if people would be interested.

I would still like to see your calculations, so please don't waste them. I too am curious to see if what I'm being told by them is possible. As I am supposed to be writing software for this, I have a vested interest.

Shit, what does MY past have to do with the company I work for or what they're designing?

This isn't a fucking troll, it was a poll to see if people would be interested in a technology. I suppose I'd have been better off not sharing what they're doing.

ercchry
03-09-2013, 01:33 AM
if they were serious you would have signed a non-disclosure agreement and you wouldnt be telling us shit

forbiddenera
03-09-2013, 03:10 PM
I have, and if you think about it, I haven't told you shit. I haven't said a word that violates my NDA.

HO2S
03-09-2013, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by forbiddenera
I have, and if you think about it, I haven't told you shit. I haven't said a word that violates my NDA.
You have said enough for people to write you off as a moron.

Maxx Mazda
03-09-2013, 05:07 PM
Koenigsegg has it figured the fuck out!

jacky4566
03-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Okey. well i think consensus is that this would be too expensive for us common folks in a retro fit kit. Any word on when you can or will release some real information or product information?

forbiddenera
03-10-2013, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by jacky4566
Okey. well i think consensus is that this would be too expensive for us common folks in a retro fit kit. Any word on when you can or will release some real information or product information?

The question wasnt whether it would be too costly, it would only be made available if it was a reasonable price. Superchargers can cost up to $5000 but people still buy them.

I can't say exactly when. I personally can't release any information, but as soon as any info is deemed public, I will post a link.

I've been told that what I can say at this point is: "We are currently investigating a few feasible novel solutions for valve actuation among other automotive technologies. We are aiming to have a functional prototype of at least one of our primary solutions by end of Q2/13."

As for the negativity in this thread, I will only say that none of you know me personally and that my personal life has nothing to do with my job and the tech that this company is researching. I frankly don't care what internet people think of me, nor will I ever, nor will I address such topics on here again. I posted to discuss technology, not my personal life.

@e31, I'm sure I'm not the only person interested in said calculations, so in the interest in continued technological discussion, please post them, then you won't feel like you've wasted your time.

zieg
03-10-2013, 01:10 AM
I know the rotary guys are big on camless technology, maybe look into what they are doing? :poosie:

Unknown303
03-10-2013, 01:13 AM
All you asked off the start is how interested people would be in said product if it existed. This type of system obviously exists since Koenigsegg is using it in an old Saab. And if the question was just if we'd be interested in it the obviously answer is "fuck yeah we are" but until there is a system in existence for retrofits with an actual pricetag attached to it there really isn't anything else to comment on.

Until the company you work for actually releases information about the system you're not going to get any valid feedback.

And if I was e31 I wouldn't be posting that information online, I'd be going to this company you work for and getting in on the ground floor development.

Darell_n
03-10-2013, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by ZiG-87
I know the rotary guys are big on camless technology, maybe look into what they are doing? :poosie:

Rebuilding engines? ;)

Tomaz
03-11-2013, 09:14 AM
This tech would be pretty amazing to have. As a retrofit kit? maybe $10k - $20k? I only see it feasible for someone to use this tech on a more serious level like racing, part development, fuel development, engine dynamic research, ect. I'd price it accordingly to those markets, not street tuning.

revelations
03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Darell_n


Rebuilding engines? ;)

:rofl:

http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.10534006.8846/sticker,375x360.png