Sound system freshening suggestions..

[fast95pony]

Back in 1997 I installed a pioneer deck,speakers,6 pack CD unit in the trunk, and a 80 watt Bazooka tube in the Mustang . The deck puts out 120 watts (4x30) . It's kinda weak. Any suggestions to give it some punch ?? I'm not looking at breaking glass from 50 yards, just a stronger sound . I guess an amp and possibly a speaker upgrade ?? My budget is in the $500-600 range ,possibly a little more...


The deck is a KEH-P4400 , the speakers TSA-5703 .

Thanks
Alan

[That.Guy.S30]

yea i would suggest a speaker and amp upgrade.. the deck may say 30x4 but it actaully does 8-12x4.. plus with an amp you get cleaner sound. if you buy everything off the internet im pretty sure you can cut your bugdet in half.. depending on what speakers and amp you pick! you might be able to gte a sub and another amp too with that money..

[t3rry]

i have a 52x4 clarion fer sale.... it'll make it so you can avoid amping the smalller speakers

[rc2002]

If it were me, I would get a new deck for sure. That'll give you a much cleaner signal to work with. I'm not sure what your stock speakers sizes are, but 6x9's can make a world of difference. If you're not into heavy bass then a decent set of 6x9's could give you some decent low frequency sound.

Then, depending on your budget an amp and maybe even a new sub would do wonders. Especially if you're running an 80W sub directly from your deck right now...

My $0.02.

[That.Guy.S30]

^^ his sub is a powered woofer so it doesnt run from the deck.. it is self ampilified

[Mckenzie]

Upgrade the deck for sure but for cleaner sound, defenialy get an amp to power your speakers. Try components if you can afford them and dont even worry about the rear speakers. Your sub will fill in the rear sound stage. The front is where you want to hear the music from.

[Weapon_R]

Don't bother upgrading the deck. You won't get the sound you want unless you buy an external amp to give the speakers a boost. If you do buy another deck, try finding one without an internal amplifier - you'll be surprised at the difference it makes when you pick up an amp instead of using the POS deck amp.

Buy yourself a good 4 channel amp (~300) and pick up some good $200-300 front components (I like infinity kappas, they are awesome speakers).

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Buy yourself a good 4 channel amp (~300) and pick up some good $200-300 front components (I like infinity kappas, they are awesome speakers).

Can you recommend an amp ?? or a make I should avoid ??

How are the Pioneer amps ??

Thanks

Alan

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by fast95pony


Can you recommend an amp ?? or a make I should avoid ??

How are the Pioneer amps ??

Thanks

Alan

Pioneer amps you should avoid :) Also avoid Rockford IMO. Yes, some people have great setups and use the above amps, but I don't think they are best suited for components. I think they are geared a lot more towards subwoofers.

I really like PPI amps, and I have used one in my car for almost a year now without problem. If you can get yourself a good 4 channel PPI, go for it - it won't break the bank, and they make the speakers sound great. Spend the rest of your money on front speakers, don't worry about the rears. In fact, a lot of people just put front speakers and never install rears.

If you have any other amplifier suggestions, go for it. Also consider Kenwood for some good, well-priced power, or Alpine if it suits you better - more $$, and not really that much better.

[That.Guy.S30]

^^ thats some good advice but that will breka his bank either way..
my opinion even though i am serverlry biased is to go with jbl amps for whatever and infinity kappa speakers!

check out ikesound.com they have dirt cheap prices on their stuff

[fast95pony]

Okay , I found the following on e-bay :

Infinity 572.5cf Kappa 6x8 speakers $110 CDN per pair.
Kicker KX800.4 4 channel amp $280 CDN

Should I replace all 4 speakers ?? or just the fronts ??

Any comments or suggestions ??



Thanks again for your input !

[That.Guy.S30]

those speakers are 100 canadian on ikesound.com.. the amp is a amazing choice so much power!but i beleive the kx800 is a 2 channel amp. what size are your speakers up front?
the rears are not really nessary becuase you can use your sub as rear fill.. plus the stock ones will do fine..

i have some stuff for sale if you want to hear it.. i have got kappas in my car(not for sale) so you can hear what they sound like before you purchase it off of ebay. ive got my speaker amp and subwoofer for sale if your interested!

[fast95pony]

I checked out ikesound.com . The prices were great , but they ship via UPS . After reading some of the threads about UPS , I'm weary about using them. I'm interested in your speaker amp and sub ...

[Weapon_R]

That is the wrong amp! Too much power.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077883715&category=18797

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077546140&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077774500&category=4950

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3078081460&category=4950 - Awesome budget amp!

[cycosis]

I've got a clarion 400w 2 way amp that powers 2 s-10 alpine subs. Its amazing!:thumbsup:

[fast95pony]

Thanks weapon R !! And thanks to everyone else too !!

:thumbsup:

[That.Guy.S30]

do you still want to listen to the kappas before you buy them? i can let you listen to my setup.. im also running the last amp on weapon_r's list so it might sound basically the same if you buy them

[Weapon_R]

Let us know what you decide to do too...

[googe]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Pioneer amps you should avoid :) Also avoid Rockford IMO. Yes, some people have great setups and use the above amps, but I don't think they are best suited for components. I think they are geared a lot more towards subwoofers.


Why do you say some brands are better for sub amps, just out of curiosity? A watt is a watt, what difference does it make what you do with it? Assuming you can find an amp made by said brand that has an output wattage of what the speakers being used are designed for.

[That.Guy.S30]

^^ i've always wondered that too.. i never did much research into amps.. the only amps i have used are soundstream(amazingly clean!) rockford(used for the woofer) and jbl(comps and woofers) but i never did a comparison test

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Let us know what you decide to do too...


Will do. I just paid to have Konis installed in the Focus and it's RRSP time . Next month I'm on vacation. I'm looking closely at my budget this week ! :nut:




Thi_Thi Subs : Thanks for the offer, but I'm going crazy working lots of O/T right now. Not enough hours in a day...

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by googe


Why do you say some brands are better for sub amps, just out of curiosity? A watt is a watt, what difference does it make what you do with it? Assuming you can find an amp made by said brand that has an output wattage of what the speakers being used are designed for.

If that were the case, they'd all be the same price. I am not a professional, and I have NO clue why, but some amps output a lot better than others. Using the "a watt is a watt" terminology, one "THUMP" series 500 watt amp should make a speaker sound the same as a "JL AUDIO" 500/1 amplifier. This has never been the case.

[googe]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


If that were the case, they'd all be the same price. I am not a professional, and I have NO clue why, but some amps output a lot better than others. Using the "a watt is a watt" terminology, one "THUMP" series 500 watt amp should make a speaker sound the same as a "JL AUDIO" 500/1 amplifier. This has never been the case.

I dunno, there really is no reason for them to sound different from what Ive learned. Output will vary sure, but we have 2 measurements of quality loss. THD (Total Harmonic Distortion), and S/N ratio.

You are going to have a hard time finding an amp with more than 1% THD, which is well below the threshold that the human ear can detect. See http://www.bcae1.com/thd.htm for a good explanation and a demo of THD.

As far as S/N ratio goes, take an amp with a not-so-great S/N ratio, say 75db (which is extremely shitty by standards of todays amps). Take a high end one, say 120db. This means that when playing both systems at exactly 100db, the "shitty" amp will color the music with 1.25db of noise. The "good" one will produce 0.8db of noise. It would be very hard to hear that difference in an optimal environment, let alone a car which is probably producing 40db of noise at any given time. 0.45db difference with amps of 2 extremes means that measurement is also totally negligible.

As far as I can tell, the price differences come from thing like durability, power output (a Jensen rated @ 200rms isnt going to put out the same as a JBL @ 200rms, even though theyre both rated the same), features (a good example is JL outputting a consistent wattage for 1-4ohms), aesthetics, efficiency, and simply just the name. Nike shirts and fruit of the loom shirts are made of the same thing, but who charges more...

I dunno, its something Ive been wondering about, but everything Ive looked into suggests that your amp has no effect on sound quality. Its job is just to take the incoming signal and amplify it, isnt it? It does not color the sound, add bass, or any of that, otherwise its not an amp, its an EQ or a DSP.

There was an amusing debate on caraudio.com where someone insisted his amp sounded better than anyones, and he got shut down pretty quickly by the guys that knew what they were doing.

:dunno: Im far from a car audio expert, but it just makes sense

I agree with what you said about output, but output is different from sound quality. Amps never put out exactly whats on the box, which is why with brands that provide birth sheets you can see huge differences in efficiency and power output of amps of the exact same make and model. When dealing with any kind of EE, there are always production variances. Similar to when 2 people with the same car get different horsepower output under the same conditions. A watt is a watt like a horsepower is a horsepower, but some brands underrate their equipment (the JL amps are to amps what Neon SRT-4s are to cars, and the THUMP would be more like the RX-8 :rofl: )

[That.Guy.S30]

maybe we should test this out? same setup all around but different amps?

[fast95pony]

After a compulsive buying fit last night, I picked up a Alpine MRV340 amp and a pair of Infinity Kappa 6x8 speakers.
:)

I've never installed any stereo stuff before, so get ready for some more silly questions in a few weeks...:nut:

[That.Guy.S30]

um are you sure you bought hte right speakers for your car? just checking.. alot of ppl i know buy the wrong size.. haha

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by Thi_Thi Subs
um are you sure you bought hte right speakers for your car? just checking.. alot of ppl i know buy the wrong size.. haha

I checked first !! They are the right size !!