Alberta Driving Ticket but I'm not the driver or passenger; what now

[moreinfoneeded]

:banghead:
Someone I know drove my car, yes with my permission, and there was a driving complaint against them.

I have now been issued a ticket for Careless Driving as the car is registered in my name.

I was not in the car, I knew nothing of what had happened, and the person driving the car said they had a different version of the story.

Whatever the case, Is it legal for the 'owner' of the care to get a careless driving ticket when they weren't even in the vehicle?

Please advise

[spikerS]

100% legal and justified.

It is up to you if you lend the car out, and to be a judge of their character. As the registered owner (RO) you got the ticket as the police are unable to prove who was the driver, and had a reasonable belief that an offence was committed.

The bright side, this is a zero demerit ticket to the RO, and easily fought, depending on the circumstances.

[Thaco]

Yep, your car is your responsibility, pay up and just be happy there are no demerits.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by Thaco
Yep, your car is your responsibility, pay up and just be happy there are no demerits.

dont pay, go fight it - shouldnt be that hard

[max_boost]

Toma would advise you to fight all tickets.

[clem24]

Originally posted by max_boost
Toma would advise you to fight all tickets.

And Max_boost would say pay it on the HELOC.

[Tik-Tok]

89_Coupe would start a thread about how someone moved his ticket fighting thread, then pretend he started it for laughs.

[prosh]

Originally posted by moreinfoneeded
:banghead:
Whatever the case, Is it legal for the 'owner' of the care to get a careless driving ticket when they weren't even in the vehicle?

Please advise

Someone is driving your car with permission, goes thru a red light camera or photo radar camera. You get the ticket. I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on even thou you're not the one driving as you're the registered owner, you pay the ticket. Have a nice day.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Have your “friend” go downtown and deny to the JP that he was driving in a careless manner.

Complaints won't hold up if there is no video evidence, it is just one persons word against another... both worthless in the eyes of the court so the ticket will be tossed. Impossible to assess likelihood of conviction without knowing what the evidence is. Contrary to what Sugarphreak posted, video evidence may not be required, and who knows? With cell phones these days, maybe there is video evidence.

You should get disclosure on the ticket which would include any witness statements and all the evidence. Then you can see what the evidence is and confront your buddy with it and see if his story changes.

Might be interesting to find out what liberties your buddy took with your car. Let us know what exactly he's alleged to have done.

[FullFledgedYYC]

FullFledgedYYC would say tell your friend to go fight the ticket and if he doesn't tell him he owes you some money.

If he truly believes he did nothing wrong, go tell the story.

[Thaco]

what's the ticket worth? usually it's not worth taking the day off work to fight it.

[moreinfoneeded]

Didnt' sign in till now. Thanks for the replies.

1. I was at work on the day the alleged incident happended.
[ I have proof]

2. a woman complained about his driving and said she was cut off; she specifically identified that it was a man driver.

3. its a 6 dimerit and $420 fine.

4. The ticket states that it is issued to the driver; which clearly was not me, though the ticket is in my name.

There is no way I want a 6 demit on my name for something i didn't do. Very clean record.

[schocker]

How can they give a ticket that is not a registered owners ticket without pulling someone over :confused:

[moreinfoneeded]

I've looked up several Alberta sites on Careless Driving section of the act, but most everything specifies the ' a driver' as the subject of focus.

What I cannot find, so far, is anything that specifically states that the 'ower' of the car is reponsible for the driver's offenses.. eg demerits.

Yes, I can pay the fee (not happy about it), but I'm trying to find out 'who' gets the demerits. The driver, or the owner.

Hmmm.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by moreinfoneeded
Didnt' sign in till now. Thanks for the replies.

1. I was at work on the day the alleged incident happended.
[ I have proof]

2. a woman complained about his driving and said she was cut off; she specifically identified that it was a man driver.

3. its a 6 dimerit and $420 fine.

4. The ticket states that it is issued to the driver; which clearly was not me, though the ticket is in my name.

There is no way I want a 6 demit on my name for something i didn't do. Very clean record.

Tell your friend to own up to it.

Is it really that hard?

[spikerS]

they are unable to assign demerits if they can not prove who is driving. If they are saying it was you, and you have evidence to the contrary, you have just beaten the ticket.

Having said that, unless the police pulled you over when the offence is committed, they can't prove who was driving as you would just deny it. If this is not a RO ticket, then it is pretty much a slam dunk win for you, and done in error by the officer.

[revelations]

Originally posted by moreinfoneeded
Didnt' sign in till now. Thanks for the replies.

1. I was at work on the day the alleged incident happended.
[ I have proof]

2. a woman complained about his driving and said she was cut off; she specifically identified that it was a man driver.

3. its a 6 dimerit and $420 fine.

4. The ticket states that it is issued to the driver; which clearly was not me, though the ticket is in my name.

There is no way I want a 6 demit on my name for something i didn't do. Very clean record.

Youll have to prove your location at the time of the ticket, even though you may have been at work that day.

Sounds like its going to be tossed for this.

[Xtrema]

4. Ticket issued to the driver.

So your friend got a ticket and never told you? If you can prove where you are at the time of the ticket, I think you can get off easy.

[frizzlefry]

Wasn't there a thread a bit ago about "If I report a bad driver will the police do something about it?" and the general consensus was no? Guess they will.

[dexlargo]

How is the ticket written? What Section numbers does it cite of the Traffic Safety Act?

If it is written as a registered owner ticket, it will mention section 160 on it somewhere (the owner liable provision). Careless driving should be on there somewhere too - S. 115(2)(b).

If it is written as against the registered owner, no demerits apply - it's just a fine.

If it is written against you and you were not the driver, I would call the officer who issued the ticket and explain that to him. He may or may not care, but if you can satisfy him that you were not the driver, he'll likely kill the ticket.

He might re-issue as against your friend, if you give up your friend's name, etc. He might also re-issue as against you as registered owner, too, so be aware of that.

Finally, if it is against you as driver and you don't tell the officer, you have to tell the prosecutor a reasonable amount of time before a trial (a month would probably be adequate). There's a rule in law requiring you to give notice of an alibi - which is what presenting evidence of being somewhere else at the time is.

The prosecution is entitled to notice so that it may investigate your claimed alibi, otherwise it's too easy to just lie about being somewhere else or to get someone else to lie saying you were with them at the time, or whatever.

The notice would have to include what the alibi is and who any witnesses are that you say were present and their contact information (as best you can provide it).

[Disoblige]

This is bullshit. What stops me from being pissed off at someone for cutting me off and then blowing it all out of proportion to the police when reporting it?

I'm surprised if a ticket was issued w/ demerits.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Disoblige
This is bullshit. What stops me from being pissed off at someone for cutting me off and then blowing it all out of proportion to the police when reporting it?

I'm surprised if a ticket was issued w/ demerits.

It happens quite often.

Last week, I was walking my daughter to school. We stopped at a crosswalk, waited for traffic to stop, which it did, so we began to cross. a lady in a Jetta went around 2 vehicles and went through the crosswalk. I had to grab my daughter and hesitate a moment, and take a quick step back. Even if I hadn't taken a step back I doubt she would have hit us, but if I had not hesitated to see if she would stop, she would have hit my daughter and I.

I dropped her off at school, came home, called 2661234 and filed a report. A police officer showed up at my door 20 mins later, I filled him in on what happened, gave him all the details and licence plate.

He told me that this lady was going to be in trouble, even if she could talk her way out of the crosswalk incident, as her registration on the car was expired, and he said he would probably be towing it, and if she didn't pay that fine, the car would be crushed.

Even if nothing came of this, at least there is a record of it to show a pattern.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Disoblige
This is bullshit. What stops me from being pissed off at someone for cutting me off and then blowing it all out of proportion to the police when reporting it?

I'm surprised if a ticket was issued w/ demerits.

Dash cam.

[EK69]

traffic cop needs a bat signal type thing to label threads where his insight is requested :bigpimp:

[95EagleAWD]

Umm, we don't crush cars in Canada for expired plates... Just saying.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Disoblige
This is bullshit. What stops me from being pissed off at someone for cutting me off and then blowing it all out of proportion to the police when reporting it?

I'm surprised if a ticket was issued w/ demerits.

Nothing stops you from making up a story... Tell that lie under oath in front of a judge and get caught, and you can be charged for purjery. So there's your incentive not to lie.

[sneek]

Originally posted by spikers


It happens quite often.

Last week, I was walking my daughter to school. We stopped at a crosswalk, waited for traffic to stop, which it did, so we began to cross. a lady in a Jetta went around 2 vehicles and went through the crosswalk. I had to grab my daughter and hesitate a moment, and take a quick step back. Even if I hadn't taken a step back I doubt she would have hit us, but if I had not hesitated to see if she would stop, she would have hit my daughter and I.

I dropped her off at school, came home, called 2661234 and filed a report. A police officer showed up at my door 20 mins later, I filled him in on what happened, gave him all the details and licence plate.

He told me that this lady was going to be in trouble, even if she could talk her way out of the crosswalk incident, as her registration on the car was expired, and he said he would probably be towing it, and if she didn't pay that fine, the car would be crushed.

Even if nothing came of this, at least there is a record of it to show a pattern.

:clap: :clap: If CPS follows through with this I will be quite a happy camper.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
Umm, we don't crush cars in Canada for expired plates... Just saying.

I kinda thought that too, but his exact words were "If they don't pay the fine and get their car out of the yard, then it gets crushed."

All I was thinking was, it looked like a decent jetta, why wouldn't it go to the auction...

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
89_Coupe would start a thread about how someone moved his ticket fighting thread, then pretend he started it for laughs.
Isaiah likes this.

[sillysod]

Points or one of those other places will make this go away, I would make your buddy go down and pay them to deal with it if I was you.

I had a ticket like this long time ago, I did cut someone off. It was more of a crappy merge than an actual cutoff and I got nailed with a bunch of very espensive tickets.

Went to Road King and talked to some shady looking ex cop there and turns out it was a cops sister and she was let go that morning from her job so she was probably angry at the world... hence all the tickets. Points got all that information and it got thrown out. I never had to do anything after I talked to them.

[Z_Fan]

Every time I read a thread like this, I laugh.

It's very simple.

NEVER

EVER

EVER

Let anyone use a vehicle you own. Period. Not your friend, not your girlfriend, your BFF, not your Dad, nor your Mommy.

PERIOD. EVER!

If people weren't so fucking stupid, this shit wouldn't happen. Your friend could have hit someone, wrote their car off, and uhm, guess what? They won't bother with the person you loaned the vehilce to at all - they actually aren't even liable for the damage your car caused - you are since you insure the vehicle. They will sue you and your insurance will have to deal with it - and so will you.

DONT LEND OUT YOUR VEHICLE.

EVER!

That said, it's a bullshit ticket IMO no matter what. Unless they've got some hard video evidence, it's a he said she said scenario. Definitely fight this and IMO it will be dismissed quite easily.

[moreinfoneeded]

Zen... Thanks. Its actually my husband that I let drive the car. But I am the registered owner.

... The Rest of the Story.

1. Some time during the week I had a voice message to call a contable.

2. Called, not answering machine, no answer
[ this went on for a few days ]

3. Finally we connected and he told me he needed to speak to me about a my car.

4. When pressed for info, he just said it was about my car on the Hwy. ( I thought it may be when my car broke down & I had to park along the side for a while).
---
5. Went to the station; this is where he told me of a 'complaint' made by a woman, about a Male driver, who was driving my car.

6. He then issued me the ticket (at the station), and had my name on the 'Driver' Line.

... it didn't make sense that My name was on a Careless driving ticket as I wasn't the driver....

... Yes..the 'friend' said he'd deal with it,....
but I still need to be certain I am not the one with the demerits.
..
still seeking info on the web for confirmation.

Thnks for all your useful sharing comments.

[moreinfoneeded]

I just caught up with the rest of the comments.

thanks again... they are all very useful... even the venting ones.

:D

[410440]

Wait.. so the male driver was your husband?


...the plot thickens..

[gretz]

I would just take it to court if the ticket is in your name and save your husband the hassle, cost, and demerits... The officer knew it wasn't you driving the car, yet, issues you the ticket... you should have no problem with this one in court

[moreinfoneeded]

Yes, yes.. my husband (common law) but this shouldn't change anything.

He used the car to and from his work that day.
I used the bus to and from my work that day.

[ I have significant work emails at work to show that i was at work during the period of the so called incident].

I'll double check the ticket to see if it actually included demerits;
I just assumed as this is what the law states.

..

[moreinfoneeded]

I'll go to court and bring all my material with me.
I'm feeling more confident now....but still prepared to pay the fine.

...and yes, I did see several articles about how to present yourself in court.... speaking, mannerisms, tone...body language.

YOIKS.

( I have it now electronically, and in hardcopy).

[spikerS]

if it is an RO ticket, going to court is going to solve nothing.

If the ticket is indeed made out to you as the driver and includes demerits, you will be able to have this tossed, but be prepared for the officer to re-issue the ticket as a RO ticket, and you still have to pay the fine, you just won't have the demerits with it.

[dexlargo]

The tickets never say anything about demerits on them. Those are assessed by Alberta Transportation (or whatever the ministry is now - Service Alberta?) The only way to tell from the ticket is if it mentions on it somewhere section 160 of the Traffic Safety Act. If it does, then there are no demerits associated with the ticket.

[Toma]

Originally posted by max_boost
Toma would advise you to fight all tickets.

:thumbsup:

[Toma]

Originally posted by clem24


And Max_boost would say pay it on the HELOC.

:rofl:

[Toma]

Originally posted by moreinfoneeded
Didnt' sign in till now. Thanks for the replies.

1. I was at work on the day the alleged incident happended.
[ I have proof]

2. a woman complained about his driving and said she was cut off; she specifically identified that it was a man driver.

3. its a 6 dimerit and $420 fine.

4. The ticket states that it is issued to the driver; which clearly was not me, though the ticket is in my name.

There is no way I want a 6 demit on my name for something i didn't do. Very clean record.

I would not admit to ANYTHING. Even about your friend driving.

If the ticket is for you, and suggest you were the driver, take your evidence to court that you were working, and that obviously THEY made a mistake.

[Toma]

Originally posted by dexlargo
How is the ticket written? What Section numbers does it cite of the Traffic Safety Act?

If it is written as a registered owner ticket, it will mention section 160 on it somewhere (the owner liable provision). Careless driving should be on there somewhere too - S. 115(2)(b).

If it is written as against the registered owner, no demerits apply - it's just a fine.

If it is written against you and you were not the driver, I would call the officer who issued the ticket and explain that to him. He may or may not care, but if you can satisfy him that you were not the driver, he'll likely kill the ticket.

He might re-issue as against your friend, if you give up your friend's name, etc. He might also re-issue as against you as registered owner, too, so be aware of that.

Finally, if it is against you as driver and you don't tell the officer, you have to tell the prosecutor a reasonable amount of time before a trial (a month would probably be adequate). There's a rule in law requiring you to give notice of an alibi - which is what presenting evidence of being somewhere else at the time is.

The prosecution is entitled to notice so that it may investigate your claimed alibi, otherwise it's too easy to just lie about being somewhere else or to get someone else to lie saying you were with them at the time, or whatever.

The notice would have to include what the alibi is and who any witnesses are that you say were present and their contact information (as best you can provide it).

Isn't there a legal length of time to re-issue a ticket. From my fading memory, I think there was a limit.

If that is the case, and the ticket issued to him, wait the time out, plead not guilty, then provide proof of alibi

[Toma]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
Every time I read a thread like this, I laugh.

It's very simple.

NEVER

EVER

EVER

Let anyone use a vehicle you own. Period. Not your friend, not your girlfriend, your BFF, not your Dad, nor your Mommy.

PERIOD. EVER!

If people weren't so fucking stupid, this shit wouldn't happen. Your friend could have hit someone, wrote their car off, and uhm, guess what? They won't bother with the person you loaned the vehilce to at all - they actually aren't even liable for the damage your car caused - you are since you insure the vehicle. They will sue you and your insurance will have to deal with it - and so will you.

DONT LEND OUT YOUR VEHICLE.

EVER!

That said, it's a bullshit ticket IMO no matter what. Unless they've got some hard video evidence, it's a he said she said scenario. Definitely fight this and IMO it will be dismissed quite easily.

In an ideal world. But I own a truck.... it's constantly borrowed lol.

[cancer man]

I don't know now but would it not be a red ticket and mandatory court?
Better fight it or your Insurance will go thru the roof.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Toma


Isn't there a legal length of time to re-issue a ticket. From my fading memory, I think there was a limit.

If that is the case, and the ticket issued to him, wait the time out, plead not guilty, then provide proof of alibi

IIRC it is 6 months.

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Toma


Isn't there a legal length of time to re-issue a ticket. From my fading memory, I think there was a limit.

If that is the case, and the ticket issued to him, wait the time out, plead not guilty, then provide proof of alibi



Originally posted by spikers


IIRC it is 6 months.

Yes, any ticket must be issued within 6 months of the offence.

[Toma]

Originally posted by dexlargo





Yes, any ticket must be issued within 6 months of the offence.

good to know.

What is the current trial lead time when you plead? is it still close to a year?? been ages since I got in trouble lol

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by Toma


good to know.

What is the current trial lead time when you plead? is it still close to a year?? been ages since I got in trouble lol
Got a ticket October 29th, put off till Jan 7. Disclosure package was not ready by this time so they set trial date for Aug.

[Supa Dexta]

Court times are ridiculous, because the system is so full of BS charges and even once you do get to court, they either dont have shit ready, or lawyers continually put stuff off, time and again. Trial dates are well into the spring of 2014 now in some courts. :nut:

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Toma


good to know.

What is the current trial lead time when you plead? is it still close to a year?? been ages since I got in trouble lol That depends on the charge and the court. I don't actually pay too much attention to traffic court, but I just had the opportunity to check and I learned that if setting a traffic trial in Calgary today, you could probably get dates starting in late October - so it looks like traffic is on about a 7 month lead right now, which isn't as bad as I thought.

For criminal charges, again, it depends. If the trial is going to take a lot of court time, like let's say it's going to be a week-long trial, probably you'd have to look 10-12 months down the road to get that amount of trial time (assuming the person on trial isn't waiting in remand. If they're in custody, those get prioritized). Most charges need only one day or maybe two for trial. You should be able to get a one or two day criminal trial within 6-8 months in Calgary. Sometimes you can get a trial within 3 months, but that would have to be a pretty minor offence, like shoplifting or common assault - stuff like that.

Some of the regional courts are very backed up. Current trial lead times in Okotoks (for criminal stuff) I have heard is about 14 months, and Airdrie is similar. I have no idea how long it takes to get a traffic trial in those places, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar.


Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Court times are ridiculous, because the system is so full of BS charges and even once you do get to court, they either dont have shit ready, or lawyers continually put stuff off, time and again. Trial dates are well into the spring of 2014 now in some courts. :nut:

That's probably Okotoks or Airdrie you're talking about, I don't think Calgary is that backed up - even for traffic.

[Khyron]

When I was going to complain against a road rager who got out of the vehicle, I was told I would be required to testify in court - which makes sense.

So I would fight it for sure on the assumption that the lady who was cut off isn't going to take time off work to testify (and if she does, she must have REALLY been cut off). :P