Not Hiring Smokers

[frizzlefry]

Link (http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/businesses-only-employing-non-smokers-in-growing-trend-1.1199841)

Just saw a news story about some employers, like Momentous Corp, not hiring smokers because of the perceived time loss and their opinion that they take more sick days. I used to smoke. But also worked through lunch and about 4 hours from home every night. I also worked with a health nut who took 2 hour lunches every day to get a full workout at the gym.

Also find it funny the CEO of the company that does not hire smokers, because they supposedly take more sick days, is morbidly obese. Which I'm pretty sure will kill you before smoking will.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1199871!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

I know its a gross habit, one I am happy that I quit. But fatty here must be one of those types who, when I was using nicotine free water vapor e-cigs to quit, would walk near me and let out a fake cough and glare at me. :dunno:

So, does beyond think this is descrimination?

[SJW]

I wouldn't hire anyone who took 3 hours of the day to go smoke. We timed a bunch of smokers at my previous job and figured they wasted 3 hours of every day going for "smoke breaks".

Justified in my opinion. Smoke on your own time.

[FraserB]

Legally, no.

[DeleriousZ]

I'd not hire someone because they smoked, and smell fucking disgusting, if I had to work anywhere near them. Not because of the health/time lost mumbo jumbo.

[theken]

your saying every smoker takes 36 smoke breaks a day?? I use to smoke, the longest a smoke would last me is like 3 minutes, plus a couple for travel if your far from smoking area, even at 10 minutes a smoke I would say nobody at work is taking 18 smoke breaks a day at work.

[FraserB]

Some of these people go out once every two hours for 15 minutes each time. So 250 hours in a year spent smoking. Maybe let them go for smokes, but take the time out of their vacation.

[Cos]

.

[speedog]

So bring back smoking in the workplace - that would solve everything. Let them do it at their desks while they're working - yeah, it was disgusting IMHO but more work did get done. I remember one guy I used to workin an office job setting with who was a chain smoker in the workplace and that guy could do a lot of shit while smoking - odd thing is he died quite early, 57 or 58 years of age. Guess excess smoking and drinking might've been a contributing factor, but from the company's perspective, the work got done. Hell, I even remember people keeping hard liquor in their desks and having a regular coffee top-up - work still got done and probably more so because those people weren't dipping out for an extended lunch, slightly pickled at work but still grinding out the goods.

[frizzlefry]

I do not agree with this line of thought but....if its the extra time off people are pissed about...don't hire parents. I do not have kids and spend A LOT of time covering for parents because their kids gets sick and they are far less likely to be available for after hours work. Previous place I worked I ALWAYS did the after hours server work because my two other co-workers who were sysadmins (who were also on salary and got paid more than me) had some hockey tournament to go to or something so I was after hours man. IF it is the time thats the issue than parents should equally piss off people. But, its ok because they have kids and you can't discriminate against that. So I think this comes down to a dislike of the habit, not the time off it may lead to. And yes, its a choice to smoke. They can quit. But my co-workers whom I covered for all the time for kid stuff chose to nail their wives.

I don't begrudge parents mind you, just throwing out a counter point.

[Cos]

.

[speedog]

Originally posted by frizzlefry
I do not agree with this line of thought but....if its the extra time off people are pissed about...don't hire parents. I do not have kids and spend A LOT of time covering for parents because their kids gets sick and they are far less likely to be available for after hours work. Previous place I worked I ALWAYS did the after hours server work because my two other co-workers who were sysadmins (who were also on salary and got paid more than me) had some hockey tournament to go to or something so I was after hours man. IF it is the time thats the issue than parents should equally piss off people. But, its ok because they have kids and you can't discriminate against that. So I think this comes down to a dislike of the habit, not the time off it may lead to. And yes, its a choice to smoke. They can quit. But my co-workers whom I covered for all the time for kid stuff chose to nail their wives.

I don't begrudge parents mind you, just throwing out a counter point.
Dunno, I also remember a lot of young single people calling in "sick" when the weather was especially nice in the mountains during the winter and just after a fresh dump of snow or after a night out on the town.

Counterpoints can be found for everything, eh.

[FraserB]

Those people calling in sick are using sick or vacation days.

[eblend]

I agree with the dude. Not only do people who smoke smell like fucking ashtrays, but seriously, they do waste a lot of time. I remember I used to leave work a few min before 4, and one of my co-workers got all bitchy about it...even though the guy was out there smoking for 15 minutes at a time....every hour to an hour and a half. Horseshit, if they can leave for 15 min every 2 hours, hell so should I, just randomly disappear, why should I work 8 hours when these guys work 6.5...

[frizzlefry]

I think the crux of the argument is if you get the job done. Smoking can be a time waster sure. But so is Facebook. When I smoked there was some admin chick who complained. She did not work after hours like I did and when we looked at her internet usage she was on Facebook much of the day. She got fired, I got promoted. Because I got shit done.

When I smoked I stank sure. But there was this mid east guy who did not bath often. Dude was ripe. Made eyes water it was so bad. Can't complain about that though. Cultural. Don't hire stinky people? Cya admin who bathes in perfume.

Again, I think it comes down to people not liking the habit. Now, if a person can't sit through a 4 hour meeting without "grabbing a coffee" then deal with it at that time. But a blanket hiring practice is wrong IMO.

Smokers have better memory BTW, nicotine helps memory function and can be used to treat Alzheimer's. :)

[eblend]

Originally posted by frizzlefry
I think the crux of the argument is if you get the job done. Smoking can be a time waster sure. But so is Facebook. When I smoked there was some admin chick who complained. She did not work after hours like I did and when we looked at her internet usage she was on Facebook much of the day. She got fired, I got promoted. Because I got shit done.



I think the problem for us non smokers, is that unlike your admin chick, many people work their ass off as well, get promoted, and stay late after work, all while working more than a guy who wastes an hour to an hour and a half smoking. At the end, one is always seen as being there, while the other is not. A smoker staying late might make them look better as they are making up lost time, but for anyone who doesn't smoke and stays late, are the suckers as they work longer. In my experience, I got the promo and the smoker didn't until a year and a half later :D

[Graham_A_M]

LMAO, I adore their logic, its brilliant. I work with two dozen smokers, and I'd be VERY surprised if they take a whopping 10 minutes extra throughout the day because of their 3 minute smoke breaks.

I'd much rather hire some very capable, hard working people that smoked then some non-smoking fucking imbeciles that couldn't pour water out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the heel.

In the trades business, to deny "smokers" a job opportunity closes your viable prospects by a HUGE margin.
Its funny, Some of my best most capable co-workers are smokers. :dunno:
Why pre-judge. Chain smoking is an issue, I seriously get that, but not hiring someone for taking an extra 10-15min worth of breaks (despite working VERY hard between them) is just asinine.

For me personally? I come in 15min early and start working, just to take a 15min smoke break whereas I puff on a cigar (and no I dont bill for that 15min). :dunno:
Im not taking any "personal" time off work, and it sure as fuck doesn't affect the bottom line in anyway. I haven't called sick into work for, wow... at least two years now. And before that? probably another two. Yet I've only been smoking cigars for about a year now.

For the people that take another 1hr or more with smoke breaks, thats something that needs to be addressed for sure, but for us normal people, its not a problem in the least. For my "breaks" I only take the smoke breaks during those 15's. For me? its a great time to chat and relax with my co-workers, which is little more then bonding with people from different departments. :dunno:
Again, I dont see how thats a problem considering thats just how I spend my set breaks anyway.
I absolutely do not, and WILL not take time away from the company for my own sake, yet thats VERY commonplace where I work. It just comes down to respect, which has nothing to do with smoking VS. non-smoking in anyway.
So this argument to me is just horseshit and wasted time really.

To me, its a lot more of the under-lying culture & ideology that a company is based on, that decides how much or little time a person spends "smoking" is appropriate. So to put that weight on smokers in general is being extremely foolish and amazingly ignorant.
:rolleyes:

[Xtrema]

Fuck it, I'll just off shore than worry about all these worker's right bullshit. Main lander smokes like a chimney, works hard for less and bring kids to work in sweat shops. :rofl:

Seriously tho, most white collar workers does dick all anyway. The only time I would care about smokers or not is either a) my group health premiums and b) if smokers attracts talent in my field or not.

And if I provides any type of DB pension plans, smoke away.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by eblend


I think the problem for us non smokers, is that unlike your admin chick, many people work their ass off as well, get promoted, and stay late after work, all while working more than a guy who wastes an hour to an hour and a half smoking. At the end, one is always seen as being there, while the other is not. A smoker staying late might make them look better as they are making up lost time, but for anyone who doesn't smoke and stays late, are the suckers as they work longer. In my experience, I got the promo and the smoker didn't until a year and a half later :D

Well its a perception issue really. If a smoker spends 5 minutes every hour smoking and someone spends the time to notice, note it down, complain about it than they are wasting just as much time.

I say let people work and let the results determine who is a good worker.

Again, if there is a performance issue then address it at that time. Be it smoking every 15 minutes, surfing facebook or gossiping. Can't be a reason for not hiring in the first place.

And, IMO, if a manager is more concerned with the time at your desk rather than the results you produce they are a shit manager and should be fired. Known lots of goodie goodies who would spout off about when they came in and and when they left and oh my im so busy etc....they were putting in so many hours because they were dumb and could not work efficiently.

[kertejud2]

How hard is it to cut some slits in between your toes and stuffing your socks full of Skoal?

That's the kind of person I want to hire: productive AND innovative.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Cos


At our work you have to either take personal time, sick time, or vacation time if your kid is off at home. You can't just not be there.

I've found a lot of times that salary employees (vs hourly) can get more leeway as they typically don't get paid overtime. Busted ass and got your shit done early and nothing else to do? Sure, go home. Tons of work piling up and somebody's gotta stay late? Have fun.

It works both ways.

I personally don't fault anyone for anything they do at work unless it directly affects me. Who am I to give a shit what a fellow employee does? If that includes him wasting his own time, all the power to a guy :dunno:

[Tik-Tok]

When I worked in restaurants (WAYY back in the day), smokers ALWAYS got more breaks, period. They would get 10 minutes every hour, vs my regular legally required 2x15 min breaks in a 8 hour shift.

It was such bullshit, that I actually took up smoking just to have more breaks, lol. (ok, and also to mack the female servers who were also smoking)

[AE92_TreunoSC]

In any blue collar or service industry job the smokers will always take more breaks.

I've worked at jobs that pressure the non-smokers to work through coffee breaks, but the smokers will take 5-10 minute breaks every hour.

Hopefully in another 20 years it will be even more rare to see smokers and we wont have this issue. Smoking and religion is on a huge decline thanks to awareness :D

[blitz]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
I'd much rather hire some very capable, hard working people that smoked then some non-smoking fucking imbeciles that couldn't pour water out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the heel.

Those aren't the only 2 options. Lots of qualified people who don't smoke, and lots of people looking for work these days.

I can't remember the last time I worked with someone based of a Calgary office that smoked.

[JustinMCS]

Originally posted by DeleriousZ
I'd not hire someone because they smoked, and smell fucking disgusting, if I had to work anywhere near them. Not because of the health/time lost mumbo jumbo.

+1

And because the majority of smokers think the world is their ashtray and just flick the cigarettes ANYWHERE but an ashtray. :rolleyes:

[Type_S1]

I don't care if someone smokes but what I do care about is lack of productivity. There are smokers in my office that go for 2 hours a day and are less productive than those who don't. There is also a few dudes on my floor that frequent the washroom 10 times more than they should be. There are also administrators notorious for going to coffee together.

I don't agree with any of these activities because it changes their output and causes them to make up stupid excuses when I am waiting on their work. I work my ass off and expect the same from everyone around me...I would be a nazi manager I know...

[cancer man]

I think every business should have a cell phone jammer,get rid of the coffee station and water coolers.

[themack89]

Theres a lot of cry babies and national socialists in this thread.

Let the guy hire whoever he wants.

Stop focusing strictly on the "break time" and focus on the productivity (I know many of you are already talking about productivity). Is it really about how many hours you clock or how much you get done??

A smoker's productivity doesn't necessarily come from the smoking itself, but possibly from the several minute break. I used to smoke, and when I was working on group work some how I would always end up taking several breaks and getting more work done that those who sat straight and just appeared to be grinding. Also, a lot of my great ideas and "eureka" moments came to me when I was out for a smoke.

The brain and body I thoroughly believe need frequent relax time to function better. Even though I don't smoke anymore I still take frequent 5 minute walks and when I sit back down my productivity improves dramatically.

[kertejud2]

You know who liked to take walks? Hitler.

Welcome to the national socialist party.

[themack89]

Originally posted by kertejud2
You know who liked to take walks? Hitler.

Welcome to the national socialist party.

Ok.

[ercchry]

anyone on beyond cannot bitch about lack of productivity/breaks that smokers take :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Everywhere I've ever worked, both at starter hourly wage jobs (Hardware store) and downtown working a real job, the people who smoke take 10ish minute breaks (elevators, smoking, visiting, etc), multiple times a day, and the people who don't smoke, don't. They usually go together or in groups, not alone, which takes longer (visiting).

They end up with way more "time off" from my experience - about 40-50 minutes a day, based on my observations.

I don't care at all in an office job where things are generally more relaxed, but it bothered me when I was working my first job at a hardware store and breaks were only 15 min with 30 min for lunch - if you smoked you literally got 2-3 times the break time as everyone else.

[toor]

I used to smoke at office and field jobs in tech. Not only did those ten minute breaks help break up the monotony of a workday, but the effect a cigarette has on a smoker's energy levels and focus is significant enough to offset the minutes of physical absence from a desk. Smokers in restrictive environments (think call center or production line) can only sneak out for a puff during morning coffee break, lunch and afternoon coffee break, which is actually a reasonable/sufficient amount of cigarettes per day. Anyway, how often do you see someone in their cubicle, staring blankly at a screen, completely checked out?

When I quit smoking, I'd still head outside with the smokers if the weather was reasonable. It's valuable social interaction and I cannot physically handle sitting in a cubicle/office under fluorescent lighting in the most comfortable office chair ever created by man for more than a couple hours without going batshit insane stir-crazy. It's unnatural and inhumane. Between excessive (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904070604576518261775512294.html) websurfing and smartphones, I don't see how this is even an issue. If your employer doesn't treat you like a reasonable adult, it doesn't matter if you smoke or not.

Edit: Personally, I think tobacco products should be illegal, and I wouldn't hire smokers because people who care that little for their own health don't care much about anything else either.

[1barA4]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

They end up with way more "time off" from my experience - about 40-50 minutes a day, based on my observations.


Now, imagine a unionized job, plus smoke breaks.

I have friends at TELUS that go for a smoke break, every hour, on the hour. And that's with possibly the worst union imaginable (TWU).

These are the same friends who when I mentioned a job posting at the company I'm at, that would rescue them from ESLUT, couldn't take an hour to put together a resume in a 14 day time span. But could go smoke every hour, on the hour.

Shoot, I work 10-11 hour days and take maybe 2-3 smoke breaks a day...versus them working 8 hours, taking at least 7 smoke breaks.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[MalibuStacy]

Honestly I can say as a guy employed in the service industry, I find it very aggravating when I work for a solid eight hours straight and my co workers who smoke maybe work for a combined total of seven but get payed the same rate and time even though they don't work as long.

I don't think it is fair to not to employ an individual based on them being a smoker. What it really should be based on is their ability to produce results. If they take too many smoke breaks then it should be noted and they should be reprimanded for their inability to produce results.

Although I also think that we should focus on the employers part to play in all of this. Some employers allow their employees to only take a certain amount of break time in a shift (regardless of how it is used), and some allow a lunch break AND additional smoke breaks. For those companies who only allow a certain amount of break time during a shift and do not stipulate what the break time is to be used for, then I think that is when smokers should smoke and only then.

That's how it is "supposed" to work at my job, but it always seems that the smokers get more combined breaks. I think that of you choose to smoke then that should be part of your allotted break time including lunch. You should not be giving anymore time to smoke then I get for my break just because you have some sad addiction.

If the employee chooses to use all of his or her lunch break and does not smoke in this time and wants a smoke break then they should have to wait till their shift is over. This is where it comes down to accountability. There has to be accountability in the workplace so that people who take too long of a break regardless of what it is used for, are reprimanded. Also there needs to be accountability for the employee to realize that they are at work TO WORK, not smoke. That means you only get your allotted break time and then you continue to work. If these conditions are not met then there needs to be a discussion between both the employee and the employer.

Like it has been said already in this thread, what this is really about is the general problem of lack of accountability and such in our society.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Granted, smokers do waste a lot of time… but not nearly as much time as new parents do. All that running around scheduling appointments, taking off early to pick kids up from daycare or school, erratically leaving in the middle of the day whenever their kid gets a boo-boo or has a cold… it adds up to be a ton of missed work.

Granted new parents often have to take time off here and there, BUT, they do not usually get paid for for the times they are not there, while smokers are not usually docked for their smoke breaks...

[JfuckinC]

I hate smokers as much as the rest of the world, but most people posting on here prob waste more time on beyond than smokers do smoking :rofl:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by JfuckinC
I hate smokers as much as the rest of the world, but most people posting on here prob waste more time on beyond than smokers do smoking :rofl: Yeah, but the smokers waste time smoking AND on Beyond, haha.

Two habits that do nothing more than negatively impact your health. One physical, one mental.

[sexualbanana]

When I worked at a video store most of the employees didn't smoke (manager included) except for one asst manager, and she was taking 4 or 5 smoke breaks a day (in an 8 hour shift) in addition to their lunch break, whereas the rest of us only took our lunch break.

We ended up forcing the condition that for every smoke break she took, anyone working with her got to take the same number of breaks. She cut down on her smoke breaks real quick after that.

An old boss hated it when people smoked because to him, he just considered smoking to be a 5-10 minute fuckaround card.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


An old boss hated it when people smoked because to him, he just considered smoking to be a 5-10 minute fuckaround card.

isnt that a whole shift at a video store? :rofl:

[Super_Geo]

It really can't help your chances...

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by ercchry


isnt that a whole shift at a video store? :rofl: :rofl: That was long after my days at a video store. Btw, I'm sad video stores are gone now because it was the best part time job

[rookie101]

I don't get this whole smoke break problem. Anytime I've worked with smokers at any job they were allowed to smoke only on there breaks, no other time. There was none of this running off to have a smoke whenever they felt.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rookie101
I don't get this whole smoke break problem. Anytime I've worked with smokers at any job they were allowed to smoke only on there breaks, no other time. There was none of this running off to have a smoke whenever they felt.

Smoke break in blue collar environment is probably more scheduled and managed.

Smoke break in white collar environment is basically whenever you feel like it.

If someone is going to dictate breaks in a white collar environment, you won't find any good people working for you.


Originally posted by JfuckinC
I hate smokers as much as the rest of the world, but most people posting on here prob waste more time on beyond than smokers do smoking :rofl:

Hey, I multitask well. :rofl:

[Toma]

"perceived" time loss??

bahahahaha. Ever worked with a smoker? Every 15 minutes is a "bathroom" break lol.

[dirtysamwich]

Definitely discrimination... If someone smokes that has nothing to do with their abilities to perform on the job or to complete a task. I have never worked at a place so lenient towards smokers like some of you guys seem to portray.



Originally posted by Xtrema


Smoke break in blue collar environment is probably more scheduled and managed.

Smoke break in white collar environment is basically whenever you feel like it.

If someone is going to dictate breaks in a white collar environment, you won't find any good people working for you.

I have worked both sides (blue and white collar), and I found that while working in the blue collar industry, there was much more time wasted and way way more smoke breaks.

In the white collar industry, I find that everyone that smoked (myself included) only smoked during their given breaks. Never did I see anyone go for a smoke break at random times during the day...

[Kramerica]

I smoke and its always confined to breaks. I tend to find people who do that smoking on the hour thing would be doing something else if it wasnt for the smoking, it's just an indication of work ethic. I worked with a mother and daughter at one job, the daughter was a smoker and would dip out in the hour, the mother would surf the Internet and waste just as much if not more time that way.

[Maybelater]

Originally posted by FraserB
Some of these people go out once every two hours for 15 minutes each time. So 250 hours in a year spent smoking. Maybe let them go for smokes, but take the time out of their vacation.

This style of micro-managing is a good way to spot a bad employer.

[HuMz]

I can say from working in commercial construction settings, you will find very few people ever smoking outside of break times. And working in an industrial construction setting up north, lighting up a smoke outside of break times and not in an designated area will probably result in termination.

You used to be able to smoke all throughout commerical buildings before exterior walls were up, now any decent general contractor will have a designated smoking areas and not allow it inside the buildings. And most companies have mandated break times where smoking is allowed.

It's only in residential construction where you can pretty much smoke whenever you want depending on your company.