Airways Brake and Muffler Damaged My Car's Front Lip

[SportEL]

I can't believe I actually have to create this thread. I tried to sort it out with the owner, but he didn't seem all too concerned when I mentioned I would share my experience with them on-line.

I took my car in yesterday to Airways Brake and Muffler (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/369178/airways-brake-and-muffler-damaged-my-cars-front-lip/) to get Rustproofed. They are one of two Krown Rustproofing dealers in Calgary. I got the car back and didn't see anything out of the norm

When I viewed my dash cam later that night, you can clearly see them scraping my car as they try to bring it up the ramp.

He tries to drive it up once, then backs up when he hears the noise. His partner puts a block of wood in front of the ramp, then he continues to drive up and you hear a loud thump noise, and then more continued scraping. I immediately went outside to look at my lip and it saw that it was all scraped up and the 3M material was all scraped up from where the initial impact and scraping was.

I talked to the owner today and he said the lip being plastic would slide up the ramp, and the ramp would not scratch it the way it did. He said the ramp is not abrasive.

I told him I would bring my car to a bodyshop and can give him the estimate of the damages which would be the lip itself and the 3M on the lip. He said he would only give me $50 or to take him to court and sue him. He was not concerned about the video evidence and did not view it. I also recorded a 15-20 minute audio conversation with him as well.

I take absolute great care of my car, and the damage was definitely not there before, and was definitely caused by them if you see and hear the evidence in the video.

What do you think of Airways Brake and Muffler (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/369178/airways-brake-and-muffler-damaged-my-cars-front-lip/)? What would you do?


Here's the video:
April 23, 2013
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Edit:
Here's the Audio Conversation as I try to sort it out with the owner the day after
April 24, 2013
qFSSS1BdStI


I had a further chat with the owner in person. I had given him the option to Pay me, Go through insurance, or Go to court. I had told him I would handle the removal of the bumper and lip myself to save him the cost of that and a rental. He had offered $50, $250, then $300. I was adamant on the reduced quote of $472 from $634 and gave him a couple days to think of it as he requested.

In the below Audio conversation, the owner says he won't pay me because he has no money, he is paranoid because I put the videos on the blog, and apparently thinks its illegal to record him in Alberta without the other party knowing.

May 3, 2013
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Pics
http://i38.tinypic.com/28mldzt.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/15mfz35.jpg



Edit: I created a website so everyone can see how uncaring, unprofessional and negligent this shop is. There's more pictures of the damage there too.

www.airwaysbrakeandmuffler.com

[spikerS]

pretty straight forward. small claims court and make sure to sue for costs as well.

[GTS4tw]

Wow, brutal video, get a couple of estimates, then get a lawyer to draw up a letter stating that you intend to sue them if they do not pay you.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by spikers
pretty straight forward. small claims court and make sure to sue for costs as well.

By costs, do you mean in addition to the damage done to my vehicle? How would I assess this?

[spikerS]

what ever your costs are. the costs to file the claim, reasonable expenses directly attributed the case, etc.

[03ozwhip]

im not saying i dont believe that it didnt happen by their guys, but this should be a learning experience for all shops to take a few minutes to walk around the car and mark the issues that exist with the client before they take it in.

it would stop alot of this stuff from happeing(them not taking onus) when there is obvious proof. do a checklist and one sheet for the client and one for their records. seems pretty simple to avoid this kind of stuff.

anyways, i hope they burn in hell! lol

[Ven]

I think it would be reasonable to suspect that damage being ramp rash, given the evidence that the damage to the lip lines up with the ramps, and the lip has no damage in the area that would pass between the ramps. The length of the scrape damage (leading edge to trailing edge) of the lip does not extend the full width of the painted area. Possibly indicating that the car was stopped shortly after hard contact was made.

In daily driving it's very unlikely you'd have damaged just the sides of the lip before you'd had damaged the front middle area typically from rubbing parking blocks, tall speed bumps, pulling and out of driveways, etc. The angle of approach favors the edges which are set back from the middle which is literally the point that sticks out the furthest.

Measure the distance between the ramps from the inside edges, then compare that to where the damage begins on the lip. There will be a rise angle to consider but I suspect it will still be close if it was the ramp that did that damage.

You could also just pull the car onto the ramp and in real time compare the ramp and rub damage position. If you can do that (record everything) and everything lined up I'd be surprised if the owner wouldn't just suck up the repair.

Even if after all your efforts nothing comes of the argument just head down to Screamin Paintworks and get the lip repaired there. And feel happy about the fact that after seeing that grubby cluttered shop they work out of I'd never bring a car there. And I was looking for undercoating too

EDIT: I just watched that video again in HD, Full Screen, and with the volume up. That was hard loud contact with your car and that ramp. Enough to stop the car from proceeding up the ramp before the driver reacted. The second time with the wood in place you can still hear the lip hit, but the car was essentially forced up anyway. Nice. BTW the ramps are abrasive, you can see the diamond plate for traction.

The purpose of the spotter in front of the car is to prevent hard parts from touching, before they touch. The spotter failed to do that, twice. Unprofessional.

[Squishy]

You can even hear him say "the ramp is too high, you need another board" after its up and they're both out of view.
Looks like an old, cheap man that doesn't care about others property.

[SportEL]

Anyone have anyone they can recommend for a lawyer? I am assuming I can sue for the costs for the lawyer as well.

Or I guess I could represent myself too which shouldn't be an issue.


The fact that they were okay that my lip was even sliding up their ramp, that it was acceptable that it was touching at all shocked me. Then he added the tidbit of the rustproofing oil making the ramp more slippery so it should slide across even easier.

I will upload audio of my conversation when I get home. Unreal.

[benyl]

Even if the court awards damages, good luck collecting.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

The bang was the 2x4 lifting up and falling down onto the ramp. 1000% when you drive off a 2x4 it tilts up and falls down. I did this many many times with lowered cars. However I would get the wood prior to the scrape lol.

[blitz]

Do what you can to get this up on the google ranking, but other than that it's probably not going to be worth your time to pursue.

Lots of time and effort for a few hundred dollars of damage that's only visible from underneath the car?

[Hallowed_point]

Funny I was just at Airways today for my annual Krown rustproofing treatment. I've never had an issue with Airways/Azim (the owner.) Sorry to hear about your experience..that really sucks!

How low is your car? Imo, they should have just turned away the work if they couldn't accommodate a lowered vehicle safely/informed you of the risk associated and absolved themselves of responsibility for any damages.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[SportEL]

The damage is visible at the front edge if you stand closer. You can see the serrated edges of the 3M film and the black plastic where the paint was scraped off. It looks horrible to me. For a person like me who takes great care of my car and into car detailing, this is a big deal to me.


I will pursue this regardess and will sue him. It is the principle of the matter. I want people to know that this shop does not accept full responsibility of their actions. The guy may seem nice, but when something out of the ordinary happens, that person's actions is where their true character shows.

I tried to be calm and let him do the right thing, but now I want people who are thinking about going to this shop or continue going to put youself in my shoes if this happened to you.


My car is a small drop, just under 2 inches. He did mention he should have assessed that they could not do my car, and that it was his mistake, but why doesn't he pay for damages to my car if he believes in customer service, and business ethics. I will upload my audio video shortly where he mentions that.

The big kicker is I just got this lip recently and put it on in the Fall, had it painted at Screamin' Paintworks., and now it is wrecked. A year or so ago,T&T Honda had wrecked another different lip of mine while putting it through the automatic wash, and the bumper actually came off the mounting point. They owned up to it and paid for a new bumper and lip refinishing and everything in full. That is a mark of a stand-up company.

[Hallowed_point]

I agree with you. If he admitted that he was negligent in examining your car before going ahead with the job, he should pay for the repair. Cost of doing business.

[SportEL]

It took over 3 hours to upload this video. It is a 20 minute so audio clip. Let me know what you guys think. I was biting my lip as I tried to stay calm talking to him.


qFSSS1BdStI

Some things later in the video I thought I would highlight linked in the description of the video:
8:14 - Tries to Explain how the ramp which is the standard diamond plate metal ramp will not cause scratching because it will slide over

11:28 - talking about Business Ethics so why did he not mention to me that there was an issue getting the car up the ramp, and there might have been some damage. He then continues saying that driving up something that is contacting the surface won't cause damage because metal diamond plate is not abrasive??

14:03 - I mention posting my experience on-line about this, and he has no issues. I would love to show to everyone of his customer's before they walk into their shop my video, and then sees if he cares.

15:09 - I explain to the owner that there should be no touching of the ramp with the bottom of the car of any vehicle, and owner had no answer

15:38 - Owner accepts the fact that he was negligent in assessing that he shouldn't have even attempted putting my car on the lift.

19:39 - Explain that I can show the video of the noise my car makes as he tries to drive it up the ramp

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by SportEL

8:14 - Tries to Explain how the ramp which is the standard diamond plate metal ramp will not cause scratching because it will slide over

11:28 - talking about Business Ethics so why did he not mention to me that there was an issue getting the car up the ramp, and there might have been some damage. He then continues saying that driving up something that is contacting the surface won't cause damage because metal diamond plate is not abrasive??

14:03 - I mention posting my experience on-line about this, and he has no issues. I would love to show to everyone of his customer's before they walk into their shop my video, and then sees if he cares.

15:09 - I explain to the owner that there should be no touching of the ramp with the bottom of the car of any vehicle, and owner had no answer

15:38 - Owner accepts the fact that he was negligent in assessing that he shouldn't have even attempted putting my car on the lift.

19:39 - Explain that I can show the video of the noise my car makes as he tries to drive it up the ramp

Wow, he pretty much fully admits it at the beginning of the video, and offers you $50 to go away! Thats pretty damning evidence...

[403ep3]

You should grab his Iphone if he has one and slide it across the non abrasive diamond plated ramp and see what happens :poosie:

[A790]

I'd sue. I'd also make a website as "BUSINESS-NAME-SCREWED-ME.com" (or similar) and host the videos/story. With a bit of a nudge it will rank for his business name. He'll notice soon enough.

Also make sure you post reviews on YELP, Yp.ca, Google, and any other site that will let you. Become very broad so that he has no choice but to notice you.

File a BBB complaint and post on as many local communities as you can.

Worst can scenario, do as I did back in 2003, stand in front of his shop (on public roadways) with a big sign and encourage people visiting his shop to notice. He can not legally remove you.

[Kloubek]

Oh, the joy of technology. You probably have a pretty easy case to win here, imo. Shame he would rather tarnish his company name in an effort of not resolving the issue like a man.

[SportEL]

Thanks for the advice A790. I will definitely post more reviews on other sites, and that website idea is a great idea. I think I will even call the Krown head office just to let them be aware.

I can't believe he admits he caused it but won't offer to fix everything. What a great way to keep his reputation of 32 years of great customer service. :rolleyes:

[Kloubek]

Did he really admit it? Did I miss it?

He offered to compensate you $50. He also admitted he should not have put it on that lift. But what *I* heard was him claiming (repeatedly) that his equipment could not have caused the damage. Granted, I'm at work and didn't listen to the entire 20 minutes.

Similar thing happened to me many years ago when I parked in a poorly signed area, and came back to find my car towed. I went to pick it up from the tow yard and noticed that my front lip was cracked. The person at the tow company outright told me "Our trucks could not have done that. You're just upset you got towed and are trying to get something for free."

I was pretty pissed. Unfortunately, I was a bit of a pushover at that time and didn't stand up for myself. I encourage you to do so.

[SportEL]

He admits responsibility by giving me $50. That's the way I saw it. He could have fully denied it and not offered to give me anything at all.

He does try to deny his ramp caused any damage, but then why offer me anything at all? His words are conflicting to me.

[spikerS]

The offer of $50 is an admission of guilt.
As is the statement that he should not have tried to put it on the lift.

Both of those together, with the video, is enough to be found guilty in small claims court.

[JfuckinC]

I understand your frustration and anger, but your going to waste all your time over those scratches?? It would be nice to make this guy understand he can't just shrug stuff like this off, but it seems like a lot of your time down the drain just for a quick lesson in good business to someone you will already never deal with again?

Totally sucks though man, good luck with whatever route you take anyway!

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by spikers
The offer of $50 is an admission of guilt.
As is the statement that he should not have tried to put it on the lift.

Both of those together, with the video, is enough to be found guilty in small claims court.

I wouldn't say the $50 is an admission of guilt. It's a settlement - and that's what settlements are all about... paying money to make the issue go away without outright claiming responsibility and without having to pay full value they would have to pay should they be found guilty by court.

I'd say his statement that he should not have put it on the lift is more an admission of guilt, but even that could be simply written off as a statement of fact rather than guilt by a judge in a bad mood.

Don't get me wrong - I think this guy is 100% responsible for the damage and is acting shady by trying to get out of it. And I also think everything combined is easily enough to win a small claims case - but mainly due to the video in which you can clearly hear impact with them trying to get it on the lift. I'm just saying that people shouldn't be so quick to assume his words are going to be viewed as admissions of guilt per sec.

[jaylo]

I have always been paranoid of these ramps and every time I take my car for service, i.e. alignment, I remove the whole bumper and leave the rebar on.

Funny though is they end up scraping my wheels on the alignment clamp (missing the rubber boots) and I wished I removed my new wheels and slapped on my stock ones

Things like this happen all the time and if you have the time, money, and effort to pursue the matter, I would suggest to do it but be warned it will probably cost more money to take him to court than actually taking $50 and add it to the repair cost (probably around a couple of hundred of dollars).

[GTS4tw]

I took my skyline to Kal tire and they wouldnt even drive it on the lift. Said the only way they would work on it is if I drove it on and off myself... Im surprised in this day and age that shops are so unprepared for modified cars, I went elsewhere and they were happy to have the work, and drove it on and off with no damage :dunno:

[benyl]

Originally posted by Kloubek

I wouldn't say the $50 is an admission of guilt.

:werd:

He offered the $50 to make the OP go away.

[kenny]

Really doubt it'll be worth the effort going to court over this. The audio evidence is not that good. Driving a non-lowered vehicle that doesn't scrape onto a similar ramp will make the same noises. It's nearly impossible to determine that the noise is made due to your lip scraping. Probability of winning the case, very low. I guess it all depends what your goal is. If you just want to do it out of principle then sure go ahead, but you likely won't get your $ back.

In terms of the audio recording, the owner never admits any guilt and is offering the $50 as a settlement. My suggestion would be to negotiate a higher settlement and stick to sharing your story with others.


Originally posted by GTS4tw
I took my skyline to Kal tire and they wouldnt even drive it on the lift. Said the only way they would work on it is if I drove it on and off myself... Im surprised in this day and age that shops are so unprepared for modified cars, I went elsewhere and they were happy to have the work, and drove it on and off with no damage :dunno:

$50 says something similar happened at that Kal Tire and now they won't touch lowered vehicles. They likely get enough non-hassle business that they don't feel its worth dealing with it.

[SportEL]

When I went to talk to the owner yesterday, he asked me to drive it on their hoist so he could check the damage. This was a different hoist. I almost did, but then thought he might have been trying to trick me. If I had driven it up the hoist, and caused scratches, he would have blamed all the scratches on me. I let him drive it up. It made it up the ramp fine as this ramp was less steep.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by kenny


$50 says something similar happened at that Kal Tire and now they won't touch lowered vehicles. They likely get enough non-hassle business that they don't feel its worth dealing with it.

Yeah, thats kinda what I figured, but it worried me enough about their competency that I went elsewhere. At least they said no though rather than damaging it!

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by GTS4tw
I took my skyline to Kal tire and they wouldnt even drive it on the lift. Said the only way they would work on it is if I drove it on and off myself... Im surprised in this day and age that shops are so unprepared for modified cars, I went elsewhere and they were happy to have the work, and drove it on and off with no damage :dunno:

Personally, I agree with the shop 100% on this. Why would they take the risk for a few bucks when there are plenty of stock height cars & trucks lined up for service? Everything goes out the window when it comes to modified cars. I respect them more for saying "no" rather then risking messing the car up.

[SportEL]

I'm going to get a website up by this week-end.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


Personally, I agree with the shop 100% on this. Why would they take the risk for a few bucks when there are plenty of stock height cars & trucks lined up for service? Everything goes out the window when it comes to modified cars. I respect them more for saying "no" rather then risking messing the car up.

Yeah I know, I am glad they didn't wreck it, but it was pretty simple for the other shop to do it. Just seems to be so much general lack of knowledge from big shops, and lack of enthusiasm for cars.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


Yeah I know, I am glad they didn't wreck it, but it was pretty simple for the other shop to do it. Just seems to be so much general lack of knowledge from big shops, and lack of enthusiasm for cars.

Yeah, I hear you on that. It sucks to go to places with unmotivated staff who are just burnt out.

side note: your in Peachland..I visit my parents there all the time in the summer..do you guys have meets or anything??

[bignerd]

When you sue in small claims court the paperwork that you file is already set up to include court costs.

If you hired a lawyer I do not know if you can sue for those costs if you win, I kind of doubt it or everyone would do this instead of doing the process themselves.

[Rat Fink]

.

[SportEL]

Around the 8 minute mark, I ask him why he doesn't own up to his mistake, and he says that he is owning up to $50. That also seems like an admission of guilt to me that he did something to my car.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


Yeah, I hear you on that. It sucks to go to places with unmotivated staff who are just burnt out.

side note: your in Peachland..I visit my parents there all the time in the summer..do you guys have meets or anything??

Yeah, we have a pretty good car culture around here. Havent been having many meets in the last couple years but I wouldnt mind setting up a cruise or something. PM me next time you are coming into town, Im sure I can get some nice cars out.

[2BLUE]

I would change the title on the youtube video to the company name.

[SportEL]

^Good Idea. Is there any other large forums on Calgary I could post this to?

Can you guys share this with others so I can bring up the ranking of this thread or share my videos and links on your guy's social networking because I am not on Facebook/Twitter. Thanks. I would appreciate it.

[A790]

Originally posted by SportEL
^Good Idea. Is there any other large forums on Calgary I could post this to?

Can you guys share this with others so I can bring up the ranking of this thread or share my videos and links on your guy's social networking because I am not on Facebook/Twitter. Thanks. I would appreciate it.
CalgaryPuck.com

[Maxx Mazda]

What a hack shop.

[SportEL]

I went to Screamin' Paintworks for an estimate, and everything including Remove/Install bumper, Repair and Refinish Lip, 3M and 2 day vehicle rental came to $635.

I talked to the owner, and he wanted me to take it to another shop James Autobody, and he wanted to take the lip off himself before giving it to the bodyshop. While talking with him, my phone died, and when I tried calling him back 40 minutes later, he was already gone.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by SportEL

My car is a small drop, just under 2 inches.

2" isn't what I would call a small drop. The shop should have been more careful but IMO when you lower your car this much and put aftermarket lips on it's just a matter of time until the lip is damaged as this city simply isn't kind to lowered cars.

Sounds like the owner may work with you so that's good.

[top_speed]

Hahahhahahhahahahahahha I know the guy that was spotting him,

[Hallowed_point]

I'm kinda on the fence with this one, as I don't think the owner was that unreasonable with you. 2" is a fairly significant drop, and while I agree (and he admitted) that he should have done a more thorough pre-inspection how surprised really can you be? I mean, this isn't some diehard tuner shop that deals with lowered cars all day ..this is a shop attached to a gas station. Were you really that surprised? It's only a matter of time before that lip gets destroyed anyway on Calgary's shit roads, a parking stopper, speed bump etc :dunno: I thought overall that the owner was fairly professional with how he dealt with the situation. I can imagine he has had all sorts of people try and blame pre exisiting damage on him. I feel bad that this happened to you and everything , but this is the risk we take when we modify cars and take them to standard repair shops imo :dunno: jmo.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by heavyD


2" isn't what I would call a small drop. The shop should have been more careful but IMO when you lower your car this much and put aftermarket lips on it's just a matter of time until the lip is damaged as this city simply isn't kind to lowered cars.

Sounds like the owner may work with you so that's good.

1.75" Front/1.5" Rear. The lip is the slimmest of all the other lips that I have that I just put on in the Fall just for winter. It was perfect in that it wasn't low enough that it would get damaged. I drove it through winter no problem. I washed my car the day before I brought it in to get rustproofed, and there was no damage at all.

I'm quite surprised that he seems to be willing to work for me, but I am not taking it to his buddy's shop. If it's going to get fixed, it's going to a reputable place that I trust and go to all the time, Screamin'.



Originally posted by top_speed
Hahahhahahhahahahahahha I know the guy that was spotting him,

Can you inform him to be more professional next time? He should have payed more attention so that my car would not touch their ramp plus the impact was so hard that the fender liner popped from out the bumper.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
I'm kinda on the fence with this one, as I don't think the owner was that unreasonable with you. 2" is a fairly significant drop, and while I agree (and he admitted) that he should have done a more thorough pre-inspection how surprised really can you be? I mean, this isn't some diehard tuner shop that deals with lowered cars all day ..this is a shop attached to a gas station. Were you really that surprised? It's only a matter of time before that lip gets destroyed anyway on Calgary's shit roads, a parking stopper, speed bump etc :dunno: I thought overall that the owner was fairly professional with how he dealt with the situation. I can imagine he has had all sorts of people try and blame pre exisiting damage on him. I feel bad that this happened to you and everything , but this is the risk we take when we modify cars and take them to standard repair shops imo :dunno: jmo.

This guy has dealt with all sorts of cars throughout his 32 years of service so it should not be unreasonable for him not to check what type of car he is dealing with. I actually thought the car was going on a lift, and not a ramp onto a hoist. If I knew, I would have gave him a courtesy heads up.

The problem is he doesn't even mention that he may have damaged something. With that hard of an impact and him having to stop the car twice getting it up onto the ramp, you would think yes, something got damaged. The bottom line is, no part of my vehicle or any other vehicle should be even touching their ramp. How about if my car was a Ferrarri? Would a customer be okay with any sort of damage at all or touching at all? How is that even okay?The owner had no response when I questioned him on that.

[Hallowed_point]

I do think that he should have pulled the plug after the first scrape personally. That was too loud for it not to be noticed. And your right, there are exotics that are low from the factory. The onus was on him to make sure he could safely do the job before accepting it. It's just a really shitty situation all around!

[SportEL]

In addition, when I first called Airways Brake and Muffler (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/369178/airways-brake-and-muffler-damaged-my-cars-front-lip/) to talk to Azim on the phone before talking with him personally, I had never mentioned the video, and asked if they had any trouble with bringing it up their ramp, which he said he didn't. Then I mentioned the video.

I have tried to register to CalgaryPuck but they have temporarily disabled Registrations.

[TheGOAT1100]

Maybe me and you should get together with that website!!! "westpark_fucked_me_good.com" would work for me.

I say sue him for every penny he has ever made. The level of disrespect shown is appalling. And a small slap on the pecker is going to do SFA, the only way to make companies respect the little guy is to hurt their bottom line. Otherwise they just don't get it.

Telling them your going to post online is like crying to your momma about what happened, what you need to do is stand up for what is the right thing to do.

The worst part is that they know that 99/100 people won't do shit to them, even if they are clearly in the wrong because of the time and money it takes to fight this type of stuff.

As a commercial electrician, if I screw up at work and a building burns down, not only would I be fired, but the company that I work for would be responsible. But that's what they have insurance for. Why is this such a hard concept???


I hope you become a shop owner soon. Seriously.

Good luck,
Nick

[SportEL]

To be this uncaring, irresponsible and dishonest with a customer's car, I will not stand for it. Of course, I will go after him in court if he does not pay for the cost to repair.

And if it means ruining his shop's reputation during that time, it is all on him.

[TheGOAT1100]

golf clap gif

[SportEL]

This is how it is going so far. I am working with the owner for a mutual agreement.

I want to take it to the bodyshop of my choice, Screamin. He wants me to take it to his 'guy' which I am adamant that I will not. I told him I will agree not to leave my car at the bodyshop to save him the cost of the 2 day rental, as well as to save the cost of the bodyshop removing the bumper and lip and re-installing it, I am letting him do it. I sent him a new quote based on this so instead of $634, it is $472.

I spoke with him today and told him okay to save you the time, I will do the removal and re-install myself, and now he is offering me $250, then upped to $300. I believe I am conceding a lot already, so what do you guys think?

[dirtsniffer]

so he has admitted fault?
You can contact your insurance if you want.

[GQBalla]

Don't negotiate. I learned not to be nice after someone last hit my car.


you should have went with your original plan. Screaming + rental = Done

[FraserB]

So you're going to settle for less than you're entitled do, create a bunch more work for yourself and letting the same idiot that messed the car up in the first place have another go at it?

Get him to admit fault and make a final offer in writing and then go through your insurance. Get it fixed at Screamin and get your rental. Less hassle and it gets done right.

It's hilarious about how you went from getting ready to drag him to court to letting him work on your car more and saving him hundreds of dollars in two days.

[Kloubek]

Can't blame him for not wanting to go to court. It is a seemingly daunting process for those who haven't done it before, and is an inconvenience. If he's only losing a bit by doing everything himself, then I can appreciate his position.

[SportEL]

I didn't think insurance would cover this sort of situation. I thought this was something the shop's insurance would handle which he thinks my car will be written off because it is not new. Haha. Please, insurance covered me for a lot more when some guy backed into me earlier this year. I will check with my insurance company then, and look at that option.

No, I don't mind the process of learning how to go through the court process, but instead of dragging it out and so I get paid now, I will negotiate a bit with him. Its his choice. Else, I will sue him.

[SportEL]

http://airwaysbrakeandmuffler.blogspot.ca/

I have a .com Website as well but currently having server problems, but I have their name as the domain

[SportEL]

Look, the company has a new website.

http://www.airwaysbrakeandmuffler.com/

[jsn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought insurance does not cover aftermarket parts? For example, performance modifications are not covered unless you've told the insurance company that you've installed them, in which case, price to insure usually goes up. I'm mostly just inquiring as I'm not sure, but I thought insurance would not apply in this case because it's aftermarket.

[SportEL]

Not too sure. My lip is an OEM lip. When T&T Honda had wrecked a different lip of mine and my bumper, they paid it out under Screamin's quote for them to fix. I didn't go through insurance.

But an insurance adjuster will be coming out to assess the damages for my car next week.

[SportEL]

My Claims adjuster said I would have to pay my $500 deductible first and then they would go after subrogate against Airways Brake and Muffler (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/369178/airways-brake-and-muffler-damaged-my-cars-front-lip/) to return my deductible back. Does that make sense? Why do I even have to pay my deductible when I have collision coverage and the other party is at fault?

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by jsn
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought insurance does not cover aftermarket parts? For example, performance modifications are not covered unless you've told the insurance company that you've installed them, in which case, price to insure usually goes up. I'm mostly just inquiring as I'm not sure, but I thought insurance would not apply in this case because it's aftermarket.

Insurance coverage DOES APPLY to aftermarket.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by SportEL
My Claims adjuster said I would have to pay my $500 deductible first and then they would go after subrogate against Airways Brake and Muffler (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/369178/airways-brake-and-muffler-damaged-my-cars-front-lip/) to return my deductible back. Does that make sense? Why do I even have to pay my deductible when I have collision coverage and the other party is at fault?

Because the other party hasn't accepted or proven to be at fault yet. Once liability is accepted then the deductible is waived. Thats the way it works.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by tom_9109


Because the other party hasn't accepted or proven to be at fault yet. Once liability is accepted then the deductible is waived. Thats the way it works.

I guess I have to clarify with my adjuster. She told me to send a physical copy of the video to her, but I think she still meant that even if she determines fault that I still have to pay the deductible first.

So what happens here? The owner says that it is not all his fault. Am I better off taking this to court then?

By the way, I also have another audio clip of another conversation that I will post up later.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by SportEL


I guess I have to clarify with my adjuster. She told me to send a physical copy of the video to her, but I think she still meant that even if she determines fault that I still have to pay the deductible first.

So what happens here? The owner says that it is not all his fault. Am I better off taking this to court then?

By the way, I also have another audio clip of another conversation that I will post up later.

Exactly, even if your adjuster thinks its not your fault they won't waive the deductible until they know for sure they can recover from the other party which is usually when the other party (or their insurer) agrees to do so.

As far as court goes, I would draft and send a demand letter with your intent to sue if you are no indemnified for $XXX.XX by whichever date. At which point you can then start a small claims court action which I'd be pretty confident you'd win. I doubt he will fight you after a demand letter.

[7thgenvic]

What kind of car is this???? Is the car even worth it?

[SportEL]

Originally posted by tom_9109


Exactly, even if your adjuster thinks its not your fault they won't waive the deductible until they know for sure they can recover from the other party which is usually when the other party (or their insurer) agrees to do so.

As far as court goes, I would draft and send a demand letter with your intent to sue if you are no indemnified for $XXX.XX by whichever date. At which point you can then start a small claims court action which I'd be pretty confident you'd win. I doubt he will fight you after a demand letter.

Ok, thanks.



Originally posted by 7thgenvic
What kind of car is this???? Is the car even worth it?


Acura EL which I have put quite a bit of money into and done many things to. It basically looks like a brand new car as I take great care of it. I always get compliments.

I had mentioned to the owner that if he could tell, I take really good care of my car, so there is no way I would let him treat and get away with what he did. If you listen to my initial audio conversation with him, he even mentions it's a good car.

[SportEL]

The owner, Azim Mitha (www.airwaysbrakeandmuffler.com) wanted time to think over my options I gave him. Either pay me, go through insurance, or go to court. I told him I will do the removal and reinstall of the lip and bumper myself saving him the cost of the bodyshop doing it and a rental car, so $472 versus $634. He had offered from $50 then, $250, then $300. I was adamant on $472, and gave him the 2 days to think on it as he wanted.

After 2 days, I called him back, and the first thing he wanted to know was if he was being recorded, and he told me he would only talk to me in person and hung up. So I went to the shop, and below is the conversation I had on Friday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfpxQWCrVfc

cfpxQWCrVfc




He won't pay me anything now because he has no money. What a great business owner and manager....

He is ultra paranoid about being recorded like someone who has something to hide. He had seen my other videos, and is angry..."You put the fucking video on the blog..." He even told me in my initial recorded conversation to post my video, but now he cares???

He apparently has proof that he didn't cause the damage. Though he says that he drove the car, then later says he didn't...

He thinks it is against the law in Alberta to make any recordings without me letting him know, and had issue with me using his name. His first name is on the reciept. The last I found it on the Krown website. I'm a consumer and I'm posting about his services. There's nothing wrong about that.

[tom_9109]

Just know that just as you have the right to sue him for damages he can also sue you for damages. Ie: to his business and/or personal reputation. I think the blog is risky.

Demand Letter........

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by tom_9109
Just know that just as you have the right to sue him for damages he can also sue you for damages. Ie: to his business and/or personal reputation. I think the blog is risky.

Demand Letter........
His negligence and lack of care for a customers car is his problem. If he was concerned about his repuation then he should have fixed this when it first became an issue.

Also, he states he has no money. How is he going to counter sur if he cant even afford to fix the bumper? lol

[rage2]

Originally posted by tom_9109
Just know that just as you have the right to sue him for damages he can also sue you for damages. Ie: to his business and/or personal reputation. I think the blog is risky.
You'd have to prove libel first before you can sue for damages from a blog. If the OP isn't lying, there's no libel. The story tells itself from the recordings.

You can't win a lawsuit from damaged reputation for telling the truth. Otherwise there'd be no bad reviews of anything, movies, restaurants, haha.

[A790]

Originally posted by tom_9109
Just know that just as you have the right to sue him for damages he can also sue you for damages. Ie: to his business and/or personal reputation. I think the blog is risky.

Demand Letter........
Pussy.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by DEATH2000

His negligence and lack of care for a customers car is his problem. If he was concerned about his repuation then he should have fixed this when it first became an issue.

Also, he states he has no money. How is he going to counter sur if he cant even afford to fix the bumper? lol

You'd be surprised how cheap it can be to sue someone yourself. I'm not saying he would win but there is nothing stopping anyone from trying.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by A790

Pussy.

Pussy?? WTF are you talking about.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by tom_9109


You'd be surprised how cheap it can be to sue someone yourself. I'm not saying he would win but there is nothing stopping anyone from trying.

If it was so easy to sue for bad reviews, then every place that got one would be doing it. OP has done nothing illegal, slanderous or libelous in this situation. He has only made truthful statements as backed up by the video, recordings and the owner's own statements.

There was no expectation of privacy and only one party has to consent to the recoding. You also do not have to tell them you are recording.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by FraserB


If it was so easy to sue for bad reviews, then every place that got one would be doing it. OP has done nothing illegal, slanderous or libelous in this situation. He has only made truthful statements as backed up by the video, recordings and the owner's own statements.

There was no expectation of privacy and only one party has to consent to the recoding. You also do not have to tell them you are recording.

So you're saying its an impossibility that if taken to court the owner might not feel provoked or righteous in filing a counter claim??

[speedog]

Originally posted by tom_9109
So you're saying its an impossibility that if taken to court the owner might not feel provoked or righteous in filing a counter claim??

Just a bit of a stretch, no?

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by speedog


Just a bit of a stretch, no?

All I am saying is it's possible. I think we've all seen even dumber things to sue over with even less merit end up in front of a judge.

[SportEL]

Just wondering, What would you guys say is a reasonable amount of time for him to reply to my Demand Letter? And in what form should payment be?

[FraserB]

I'd give him 10 business days from the day you drop it off. Bank draft only.

[amear]

Originally posted by FraserB
I'd give him 10 business days from the day you drop it off. Bank draft only.

+1

[SportEL]

Ok thanks, I was thinking 30 days myself. What about delivery? By Registered Letter or personally.

[amear]

Originally posted by SportEL
Ok thanks, I was thinking 30 days myself. What about delivery? By Registered Letter or personally.

Registered letter.

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by SportEL
Ok thanks, I was thinking 30 days myself. What about delivery? By Registered Letter or personally.


Either one is fine for a demand letter. If you do it in person you can also verbally explain your intent that if you're not paid within the 10 days that you already have the papers prepared and you will file them in court and that you'd expect him to take responsibility for the damages his shop caused.

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by SportEL
Ok thanks, I was thinking 30 days myself. What about delivery? By Registered Letter or personally.
Registered Letter. That way you have proof it was delivered to him.

[SportEL]

^That's what I was thinking.

The insurance adjuster came by, and calculated costs of $627.34 not including 3 day rental coverage that they estimate in their quote which is higher than the $634 estimate given by Screamin' which includes 2 day rental.

So I wonder which amount I should ask for now.

[FraserB]

Go with the insurance one if it's higher. You have given him many more opportunities than most would have to make this right and he has refused every time.

[Ttrak]

I have known Azim for over 10 years and everyone I know goes to his shop for all repairs and mechanical work. Not once have we ever had an issue with him and he has always been fair. He deals with cars from brand new porches to semi trucks and has never had an issue like the one you are presenting.

I dont appreciate your whining remarks and the fact that you have a prior incident at another dealer shows the community that you are a freeloader and an opportunist that trys to weasel free shit when you have a chance.

The fact that you made a website is pretty ballsy and you should probably lawyer up as you are now in the defamatory of character jurisdiction. In no way did Azim admit guilt, but rather than have you walk away and spread the bullshit you are now, offered on numerous occasions to settle with you, as he did not feel that his shop was responsible for the damage but was willing to lose money so you and your shitbox car would go away.

Probably a good idea to lawyer up as you have crossed the line and should know that his network spans a pretty big list of successful lawyers.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Ttrak
I have known Azim for over 10 years and everyone I know goes to his shop for all repairs and mechanical work. Not once have we ever had an issue with him and he has always been fair. He deals with cars from brand new porches to semi trucks and has never had an issue like the one you are presenting.

I dont appreciate your whining remarks and the fact that you have a prior incident at another dealer shows the community that you are a freeloader and an opportunist that trys to weasel free shit when you have a chance.

The fact that you made a website is pretty ballsy and you should probably lawyer up as you are now in the defamatory of character jurisdiction. In no way did Azim admit guilt, but rather than have you walk away and spread the bullshit you are now, offered on numerous occasions to settle with you, as he did not feel that his shop was responsible for the damage but was willing to lose money so you and your shitbox car would go away.

Probably a good idea to lawyer up as you have crossed the line and should know that his network spans a pretty big list of successful lawyers.

And here we goooooo!

:clap:

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Ttrak
[BThe fact that you made a website is pretty ballsy and you should probably lawyer up as you are now in the defamatory of character jurisdiction. [/B]

BTW, you're a retard if you think this is even close to correct.

All my opinion of course;)


Also OP, you might see if Consumer Watch is interested in this. I know they usually run this type of story.

[Ttrak]

Listen, Im not a lawyer and dont care to be but the way the OP went about with the secret recording and the false labels of someone admitting guilt when none was made is a shitty move and really hurts the image of a pretty stand up guy.

The amount of money that would be spent trying to justify his story to a judge would far exceed the cost of the car repair.

There is a reason that every police officer, EMS, and military vehicle comes to their shop for Krown work...I personally have brought an mr2, celica and a lowered accord to get Krown work with no issues... EVER.

I call bullshit on this guy and want people to know that this shop is legit.

[SportEL]

There is nothing wrong with my recording. If I didn't have a dash camera, he could have easily disputed what he did. Thank goodness, I had a dash camera. It basically paid for itself with the damage he caused. What kind of legit shop does that sort of damage without accepting all responsibility when confronted, and to not even mention it to the customer in the first place?

He mentions he has not had anyone say anything bad to about his shop for the past 32 years. I'm sure he has had many happy customers. I have been there before actually but there comes a time when an accident happens so he should own up fully for all of it, and don't say you don't believe it is not all his doing. The excuse he brings up I believe is ridiculous. It show's the true character of a shop of what they do when something wrong happens. I would have respected the fact if they owned up to it in the first place, and wouldn't have probably even brought it up to anyone that it happened and would have continued to go to his shop.

[Jeeper1986]

wtf OP this is getting annoying, the damage is only scratches from what I see in the pics you have given

The $50 the guy offered you was too much, all u need is a $2 sand paper, sand the scratches and a $20 spray paint to match your color problem solved if the scratches where on the front lip that makes the car soo ugly and cracked then you have something to cry about but from the pics all I see is scratches and no cracks :banghead: :thumbsdow :drama:

[tom_9109]

Cost of repair plus the cost of rental. however if insurance is taking care of it then you have to leave it up to them to try to recover.