Smoke from tailpipe on startup - Who's the expert on beaters?

[ExtraSlow]

OK team, I did search, but I suspect beyond has too many AMG ballers on here for this to be a common topic.
Bought a beater recently for my wife to commute with. 2002 Mazda Protege5. Solid car, I'm happy with my purchase, mostly, and the price was right. Anyway, it puts out what I would call grey smoke on startup. It's a little more smoke than I plan to live with, and it embarrasses the wife. Note that it smokes on startup only, and it goes away after a very short time. Does not smoke on a "warm" startup. Only if it's sat for a couple of hours.

My guess is that it's got worn/cracked valve seals that let oil drain into the cylinders while it's parked. Obviously replacing those would be the "real" fix for this. However, I'm a cheapskate, that's why I bought a beater in the first place.

There are a variety of budget approaches to this issue.
- "cleaning" sludge or carbon with seafoam, AutoRX or similar. (usually recommended for stuck ring symptoms, like smoke under load)
- Thicker oil, so it drips slower. This is a high mileage engine, so, 15W40 or even 20W50 are probably not out of the question.
- Additives or “high mileage” oil to swell the seals.
- Combo of thick oil and additives to swell the seals.

My first reaction would be that combo, but I wanted to get some comments from the backyard mechanics of beyond and see if I’m missing something. What say you?

[m10-power]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
OK team, I did search, but I suspect beyond has too many AMG ballers on here for this to be a common topic.
Bought a beater recently for my wife to commute with. 2002 Mazda Protege5. Solid car, I'm happy with my purchase, mostly, and the price was right. Anyway, it puts out what I would call grey smoke on startup. It's a little more smoke than I plan to live with, and it embarrasses the wife. Note that it smokes on startup only, and it goes away after a very short time. Does not smoke on a "warm" startup. Only if it's sat for a couple of hours.

My guess is that it's got worn/cracked valve seals that let oil drain into the cylinders while it's parked. Obviously replacing those would be the "real" fix for this. However, I'm a cheapskate, that's why I bought a beater in the first place.

There are a variety of budget approaches to this issue.
- "cleaning" sludge or carbon with seafoam, AutoRX or similar. (usually recommended for stuck ring symptoms, like smoke under load)
- Thicker oil, so it drips slower. This is a high mileage engine, so, 15W40 or even 20W50 are probably not out of the question.
- Additives or “high mileage” oil to swell the seals.
- Combo of thick oil and additives to swell the seals.

My first reaction would be that combo, but I wanted to get some comments from the backyard mechanics of beyond and see if I’m missing something. What say you?

Grey smoke isn't oil, how much? a puff or does it stream out?

Seafoam seems to clean things out very well, might want to try typical tuneup parts, change plugs, start a fuel injector cleaning regiment.

Change the oil but DO NOT add any high mileage seal swelling potions, sort term (ie selling car) with long term problems.

[spikerS]

My general rule of thumb for exhaust smoke:

Black: running really rich
white: antifreeze
blue: oil

possibly a head gasket issue, letting in coolant and oil?

If it is only the past couple of days this smoke is noticable, could just be condensation and the cooler weather condensing the vapor...

Another trick I have done, is get a kleenex or paper towel, and hold it unfolded or anything over the tail pipe exit so it traps any larger particulate coming out, and see what turns up.

[m10-power]

Also watch your coolant level and add a bottle of barsleak, great coolant sealant and lubricant for your water pump seal. If it is using a little coolant it will probably fix it up.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Video of the smoke would help, some people differentiate blue and grey a bit differently.

I know this car isn't turbo but one of my previous cars had blown turbo seals and smokes terribly on startup after sitting, the smoke was more grey than blue but it was consuming oil.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by m10-power
^ got your black and blue mixed up



Hahaha! thanks, I fixed it.

[heavyfuel]

A little bit of smoke on startup "embarrasses" your wife??? How high maintenance is she? Maybe don't buy her a pos next time?

[HO2S]

Check for injector leak down. Pull out the fuel rail with the injectors still attached and let it sit for a few hours. There should not be any drips or fuel build up on the injector tips.

If you have leaking valve seals you will probably have worn valve guides. Warm up the engine then check engine vacuum. It should be around 16-18"hg and the needle should be reading steady. If the needle in bouncing a few hg you have a cylinder low on compression or worn valve guides.

Don't be putting in 15w40 or 20w50. Then it really will be engine time.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
A little bit of smoke on startup "embarrasses" your wife??? How high maintenance is she? Maybe don't buy her a pos next time?
As always, a thoughtful and helpful response. I buy cheap cars and I OWN an expensive house. Why don't you go back to the threads on rental housing.

Everyone else, this is great, and fast, thanks. I'm relatively certain it's not anti-freeze smoke, I've seen that before and to me, this looks like oil smoke, but I'll try the paper-towel trick and report back.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by HO2S
Check for injector leak down. Pull out the fuel rail with the injectors still attached and let it sit for a few hours. There should not be any drips or fuel build up on the injector tips.

If you have leaking valve seals you will probably have worn valve guides. Warm up the engine then check engine vacuum. It should be around 16-18"hg and the needle should be reading steady. If the needle in bouncing a few hg you have a cylinder low on compression or worn valve guides.

Don't be putting in 15w40 or 20w50. Then it really will be engine time.

Why would 15x40 or 20w50 cause any issue?

Rest of the advice is solid.

[heavyD]

Usually Oil smoke is bluish in color. If it's white could be antifreeze. It could possibly be a cylinder misfiring. Check plugs and coils.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

I buy cheap cars and I OWN an expensive house.

Awards are the 2nd Tuesday of each month

[sputnik]

Smoke (assuming that it is oil burning) immediately at (and only at) start up, is usually an indication that the valve seals are starting to go.

[DeleriousZ]

Your poll options are awesome. That's all.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by m10-power


Why would 15x40 or 20w50 cause any issue?

Rest of the advice is solid.

That oil is too thick for this engine. The oil will not be able to get into tight bearing tolerances and has the potential to seize bearings and cam journals.
The thickier oil will also increase oil consumption and can throw a piston out of the block. Oil is splashed or sprayed onto the bottom on the piston. 5w30 is thinner and more oil will run off the cylinder walls by it's self the rest is scapped off by the oil control rings. If you put thicker oil in the engine more oil will hang onto the cylinder walls and the oil control rings will not be able to scape off all of the oil. That will increase oil consumption and blow-by. Over a extended time with oil flooded rings one day the rings will dig into the cylinder walls and put a hole in the block. It usually happens in the first few seconds of the engine running when its cold.

[benyl]

Wow, after I voted, 75% of people on Beyond drive AMGs.

We should have a meet. No beaters allowed. ;)

[m10-power]

Originally posted by HO2S


That oil is too thick for this engine. The oil will not be able to get into tight bearing tolerances and has the potential to seize bearings and cam journals.
The thickier oil will also increase oil consumption and can throw a piston out of the block. Oil is splashed or sprayed onto the bottom on the piston. 5w30 is thinner and more oil will run off the cylinder walls by it's self the rest is scapped off by the oil control rings. If you put thicker oil in the engine more oil will hang onto the cylinder walls and the oil control rings will not be able to scape off all of the oil. That will increase oil consumption and blow-by. Over a extended time with oil flooded rings one day the rings will dig into the cylinder walls and put a hole in the block. It usually happens in the first few seconds of the engine running when its cold.

Lol

[HO2S]

Originally posted by m10-power


Lol
Do some research into why GM engines with active fuel managemet blow out cylinders 5,6,7, or 8. and have oil consumption problems. Its from a poor design that floods the rear cylinders walls with oil.

[ExtraSlow]

HO2S, I agree with you on the newest engines. There's good documentation on Ford modular engines not liking anything thicker than 5W30 due to inadequate oil flow through small passesges. However, for a 2002 Mazda 2.0L engine, I'm guessing that's not the case.

I haven't made my choice, and I'm open to suggestions.

[HO2S]

If you put 20w50 in a 1990 civic you will have oil puking out of the intake tube in no time from all of the blow by. Oil galleys have gotten smaller over the years but the cams still run on the head journals and the oil ports are still small in your engine. Mazda specs for oil is 5w30 or 10w30. Ive seen so so many engines killed for the incorrect oil put in them. The grade of oil in your engine right now is fine and is not causing the problem why change it?

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


Awards are the 2nd Tuesday of each month

Nice comeback.....man, you are such an idiot.

I agree with the head gasket part. Also agree with ho2s. He may be throwing out a bit of over-technical data in with it, but its all true. Engines, especially in the last 20 years or so, are designed on very tight clearances, so that being said, you really need to use the oil that they tell you to use. They have done all the calculations and work to be able to tell you with certainty, how your engines lubrication system works, and what it needs.

:thumbsup:

[m10-power]

Originally posted by HO2S

Do some research into why GM engines with active fuel managemet blow out cylinders 5,6,7, or 8. and have oil consumption problems. Its from a poor design that floods the rear cylinders walls with oil.


The fuel management engines I already don't like the idea of unloaded pistons going up and down, but I don't see how relevant that is to a viscosity discussion...

To say your engine is going to pile up because of 15w40 or 20w50 oil is a load of shit. It's not that much thicker to cause issue, especially synthetic oils.

Any high mileage 'loose' engine will benefit from an increase in viscosity, helps in a number of ways.

As for coming out the breather, how would a heavier oil be worse then the light oil...Most of the reason for increased blowby is wear on the cylinders.

Reason they recommend lighter oil is purely for fuel economy and emissions and for the vast majority of people that is fine.

[toastgremlin]

Look through the spark plug holes after the car's been sitting for a few hours (ideally overnight or when it's cold out) and see if you can spot any coolant hanging out in the cylinders.

Is your coolant level going down over time?

[HO2S]

Originally posted by m10-power



The fuel management engines I already don't like the idea of unloaded pistons going up and down, but I don't see how relevant that is to a viscosity discussion...

To say your engine is going to pile up because of 15w40 or 20w50 oil is a load of shit. It's not that much thicker to cause issue, especially synthetic oils.

Any high mileage 'loose' engine will benefit from an increase in viscosity, helps in a number of ways.

As for coming out the breather, how would a heavier oil be worse then the light oil...Most of the reason for increased blowby is wear on the cylinders.

Reason they recommend lighter oil is purely for fuel economy and emissions and for the vast majority of people that is fine.

The dump port for the active fuel managment system sits on the rear of the engine inside the oil pan. When the system is running the by-passed oil gushes out of the dump valve and covers the rear 4 cylinders with oil washing them down. The oil control rings cannot handel that amout of oil so it starts to let oil in the combustion camber and will eventually kill the engine. The same thing will happen with thicker oil. Too much oil on the cylinder walls. That will cause blow by and blow by gasses will take oil with it into the intake tube.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by HO2S


The dump port for the active fuel managment system sits on the rear of the engine inside the oil pan. When the system is running the by-passed oil gushes out of the dump valve and covers the rear 4 cylinders with oil washing them down. The oil control rings cannot handel that amout of oil so it starts to let oil in the combustion camber and will eventually kill the engine. The same thing will happen with thicker oil. Too much oil on the cylinder walls. That will cause blow by and blow by gasses will take oil with it into the intake tube.

ya that's the same thing as heavier oil...

heavier oil would actually mean less oil on the walls, consider how it's getting there in the first place, as for it overwhelming the oil rings I would say no, not a chance.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by m10-power


ya that's the same thing as heavier oil...

heavier oil would actually mean less oil on the walls, consider how it's getting there in the first place, as for it overwhelming the oil rings I would say no, not a chance.
I don't think you really understand how oil viscosity works. And I would say yes for overwhelming the rings.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Sounds like valve seals, nothing stops them from blowing on cold start except for replacement. Not worth it on a beater.

I've had many cars with worn valve seals and its only embarrassing for 2 seconds on cold start. It's part of owning a beater.

[ExtraSlow]

I am impressed that we've had so many responses. 26 posts and 19 responses to the poll in under nine hours. However, we do need a few non-AMG owners to reply to the poll to break the four-way tie that has developed. Shocking how many AMG folks we have here. Almost 80% right now.

So far, the only thing that's getting no love is the "high mileage" oil.

I've got a good supply of regular 5W30 in the garage, but that's not a big deal, I can buy whatever.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by benyl
Wow, after I voted, 75% of people on Beyond drive AMGs.

We should have a meet. No beaters allowed. ;)
Hey, is it wrong that my most "meet worthy" car is also my beater?

I don't think anyone wants to see my stock Odyssey or my nine year old pickup. But a lightly modified import wagon with limo tint is right up beyond's alley I'd say.

I probably need a beyond sticker on it.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

So far, the only thing that's getting no love is the "high mileage" oil.
.

High mileage oil should never get any love. It is the absolute the worst oil that you can put in any engine.

You will notice that a lot of high mileage oil does not have the api starburst on it because it does not meet api standards.
It is made from the manufactures cheapest base stock and packed full of additives that swell seals, the problem is the seals continue to swell and start to leak again.
High mileage oil does not have to meet any industry standards and is marketed to the diy'er because it has the highest profit margin for the manufacture.

[sillysod]

Sounds like valve seals to me.

If it was coolant you would smell it right away.

The only solution is to make it look cool so people think the smoke is supposed to be there - putting an abrupt end to any embarrassment on your wifes end.

I would install this without telling your wife and set it up to run for the first 10 seconds after startup.

mothers day is coming up and it would be a nice surprise for her probably.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/504792730/Super_Firedrake_Of_Racing_Exhaust_Back_Flamethrower.jpg

[ExtraSlow]

Just to address a few of the technical responses with the most recent info:
- Plugs were suggested, not sure that's smart if I think I'm leaking oil in the cylinders, it'll just foul the plugs right away. If it's a misfire, then, yes. Engine runs well, and a misfire on a 4 cyl is pretty noticeable in loss of power and rough idle, this car idles smoothly.
- Could be condensation? I'm sure this is not condensation coming out due to the change in weather.
- How much smoke? It's a steady stream from about five seconds after the car starts until about a minute afterwards. Very steady stream in that time, but then it decreases pretty quickly down to nothing. No smoke when accelerating with a warm engine
- Coolant leak, I really don't think so, and here's my reasoning. This smoke only happens on a cold engine. I feel like a coolant leak would be worse when the engine is under load. Is that right?

I put a clean portion of an old white bed sheet over the exhaust and started it up after the car had been sitting for four hours. It smoked just like expected. Afterwards, I inspected the cloth. It had a noticeable hydrocarbon smell, but that's probably not surprising regardless of the smoke source. I believe that's from some unburned fuel coming through, but again, I'm not surprised about that. No "sweet" smell. The cloth was stained gray.

[m10-power]

Do you park on an incline, front of car higher?

Could be leaking injectors as suggested pull the rail with inj on, cycle the ignition to and ensure the fuel pump runs. Check for leaks after some time, should be nothing.

Could do a seaform of the intake, lots of oil buildup will be cleaned out. Probably be amazed at the shit the comes out of the exhaust after.

Do a compression check as well, always good to know the pressures and easy to do.

[ExtraSlow]

No incline, flat ground parking.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
No incline, flat ground parking.

Does the car get driven for short distances only? Typically how long is her drive? Also does it warm up quickly?

[Kramerica]

Any water coming out of the exhaust on start up?

From experience I can tell you that the one problem with beaters are that a tear down to find a problem like this isn't going to be worth it. Best advice is to top up antifreeze and oil and monitor them over a month or two to see if either are going down. I had the same problem with my first car and basically a piston ring or something cracked and some of the burnt oil was making it back into the system.

[1barA4]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
- Coolant leak, I really don't think so, and here's my reasoning. This smoke only happens on a cold engine. I feel like a coolant leak would be worse when the engine is under load. Is that right?


FWIW, my buddy's A4 would burn a bit of coolant on a cold start with a little white smoke but no problems when warmed up, so in the winters he'd keep a bottle of G12 handy in case he needed a top-up.

[ExtraSlow]

I've only owned the car since Sunday, so I don't have any history with it. I'll top up everything and maybe take it for a longer drive on the weekend to see how it reacts when it's fully warm. It seems to warm up normally on the few short trips we've had it on so far.

[kvg]

I thought it was burning coolant when you first posted, but if it was I'm sure you would have been able to smell it pretty quick. Throw some Lucas fuel conditioner in the tank and maybe change the plugs if you want take it then take it for a long drive like your thinking. It's the cheapest way to start then keep moving down the check list.

[reijo]

Sitting for a while and smokes on start-up .... more than likely valve stem seals ... and like others have said, probably not worth fixing .... Although maybe a rebuilt head might be a thought and then it would likely be ok. If you are going to keep it for a while .... might be worthwhile.

R

[revelations]

Not recommending you use the product, from this video gray seems to be the colour of hardened valve seals.

Blue is BAD or cracked ...

-5oKZV0wQR0

[ExtraSlow]

Looks like the thing leading in the polls is the thicker oil route. It needs an oil change this weekend anyway, so that's what I'll probably go with.

We'll see how excited I get about putting something in to soften up the valve seals, may or may not.

I did dump a bottle of fuel system cleaner ito the tank yesterday when I filled up, and I'll take it for a good rip on the weekend to let that slosh around a little.

[ShermanEF9]

Originally posted by reijo
Sitting for a while and smokes on start-up .... more than likely valve stem seals ... and like others have said, probably not worth fixing .... Although maybe a rebuilt head might be a thought and then it would likely be ok. If you are going to keep it for a while .... might be worthwhile.

R

im shocked it took to the end of page 2 for this to come up. its valve stem seals. when warm they swell and won't leak, except maybe a bit under WOT. other than that it will smoke on cold start every time. my aristo is really bad at startup, but after maybe 20 seconds its only under wot.

[ExtraSlow]

Sherman, I just need to give the good people of beyond a little credit for mentioning valve stem seals several times throughout this thread.

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
My guess is that it's got worn/cracked valve seals that let oil drain into the cylinders while it's parked.
Originally posted by HO2S
If you have leaking valve seals you will probably have worn valve guides.
Originally posted by sputnik
Smoke (assuming that it is oil burning) immediately at (and only at) start up, is usually an indication that the valve seals are starting to go.
Originally posted by AE92_TreunoSC
Sounds like valve seals, nothing stops them from blowing on cold start except for replacement. Not worth it on a beater.
Originally posted by sillysod
Sounds like valve seals to me.

[ShermanEF9]

i must have read over it. my apologies. to be honest i didnt read full post. i just kept seeing issues that were way over reactions.

[ExtraSlow]

No problem. I usually don't read evey single post, and I appreciate the feedback. Vote in the poll if you haven't.

[HO2S]

After reading that you just bought the car, that changes everything. You have no idea of the history of the car and what has happened to it or how it has been maintained.
The mazda 2.0l engine will kill head gasket every now and then. The problem is when the gasket fails the owner will over heat the engine. When that happens the oil control rings will loose their tension. By replacing the hg only half of the problem if fixed and it will turn into a oil burner. In reality it need a engine.
All because it only smokes for a few minutes does not mean that it is only burning oil for a few minutes. Once the cat fully warms up it can burn a suprising large amount of oil with no smoke out the tail pipe.
My hunch is that it is not valve steam seals, I think it is oil control rings. But I would start with a simple vacuum reading and then get into the bottom end.
Seeing that you are doing a oil change this weekend. Go to a GM dealer and buy a bottle of GM top end cleaner. Get the engine hot and pull out the spark plugs. Fill each cylinder with about a 1/4 cup of the cleaner and let it sit over night. In the morning suck out the cleaner put the plugs back it and change the oil and filter. Then drive the shit out of it for a few minutes. That may help.

[sillysod]

Is it a normal 5 that is rusted to shit? If so then just live with it. If the body is good IMO get it fixed. They are sharp looking cars and pretty reliable from what I've seen, problem is the body rots out.

Shop around but $1000 in repairs is 2 months car payments for a new car. Even if you only keep it another 6 months you still are ahead assuming it's paid for.

People are too quick to write off vehicles IMO. Once the body starts to rust it's finished, but otherwise it is often more economical to just repair it vs. replace.

[ExtraSlow]

It's got some rust, but it doesn't look too bad. I have reason to believe it's been repainted, so who knows if there's a bunch more rust underneath. Probably, but if it holds out for a year or two, I'll be happy.

I always liked the look. I used to rock a Mazda3, but the slightly smaller 5 wagons looked sharper to my eye. More of a pure compact wagon look.

Anyway, yeah it's paid for. It's the third vehicle in a house of two drivers, so I have some patience to play around with this before dropping money on "real" repairs. Hell, I'm only halfway mechanical, but for what I spent, I don't mind doing the work myself if it's head gaskets or something. If this thing does crater, I'm not replacing it with something that'll need payments. I don't really do car payments, I much prefer to buy with cash.

I should probably grab some photos and post up. I'll try to do that on the weekend. Even with a 47 post thread about it smoking, I'm pretty pleased with this purchase for the money.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, the lower the price, the less it depreciates. I know about that math. I drove a $500 car for two year, and sold it for $350 at the end. Could have gotten more, but I was in a hurry to dump it. This one isn't even a true beater, I paid over two grand for it. :eek: :eek: This is a luxury beater in comparison to real beaters.

Diesel oil is great since it has so much detergent in it.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

welp, did the oil change just now, and here's the recipe I used, based partly on what was sitting in my garage..
2L 15W40 diesel oil, 1L Lucas Oil stabilizer and top up about 2/3 of a L with 5W30 Valvoline. Capacity is listed at 3.5L.
I had that Lucas stuff sitting around, and in the past it was pretty effective at helping with an engine that leaked oil to the exterior. Figure it may help.

Speaking of Valvoline 5W30, anyone need some? I bought 5x 5L jugs a year ago, and I haven't really been using it as fast as I thought. selling cheap.

I'll check out that restore stuff as well, but I'll run for a week or two like this first.
Topped off the coolant as well, not that it was very low, but now it's right full, so I'll be able to tell for sure if it's burning any of that.

H2OS, good info, sounds like you've spent some time working on these engines. I don't have the tools to do a compression test myself, and spending a few hundred bucks at a shop would make this car 10% more expensive, so I'm going to try the half-assed methods first. I don't doubt that your suggestions are the "right" way to do this, but well, keeping the cash in my jeans sounds better to me right now. Also if heavyfuel is around, this is your cue to jump in and comment on my financial decision making ability.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

H2OS, good info, sounds like you've spent some time working on these engines. I don't have the tools to do a compression test myself, and spending a few hundred bucks at a shop would make this car 10% more expensive, so I'm going to try the half-assed methods first. I don't doubt that your suggestions are the "right" way to do this, but well, keeping the cash in my jeans sounds better to me right now. Also if heavyfuel is around, this is your cue to jump in and comment on my financial decision making ability.

I know in your first post you asked for the back yard hacks to chime in. But I'm a actual real mechanic giving you advice.

You are 100% wasting your money on snake oil. You will read all over the internet that this magic potion in a can is the greatest shit ever. But its not. It may work for a little but you end up damaging other things in the engine or plain and simple does not do anything.
If you take your car to a good shop they can tell you what it wrong for 100$ to 150$, you will spend that amount on buying different potions and incorrect oils that wont do anything.
In my honest opinion I think it needs a engine, that's why it was cheap.
Putting in heaver oil is not the answer and will not fix damage already done. Diesel oil has a different additive package in it than gasoline oils. You may find the diesel oil will break down faster than the oil that is supposed to be in there.



Just so you don't wast any money, a compression test and a leak down test will not tell you why it is burning oil.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by HO2S
In my honest opinion I think it needs a engine, that's why it was cheap.
Yes, that's possibly true. and if that's the case, I'll drive it until it blows up and then give it to the kidney foundation.

[m10-power]

Listen to him he's a real mechanic, im amazed with your combination of oil that a ring hasnt dug into the cylinder wall and blown a hole in the block. Likely with the little puff of smoke your engine is going to pile in, probably only good for another 200,000km, better do a full rebuild now.

Lol

[Sugarphreak]

...

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by HO2S
Go to a GM dealer and buy a bottle of GM top end cleaner. Get the engine hot and pull out the spark plugs. Fill each cylinder with about a 1/4 cup of the cleaner and let it sit over night. In the morning suck out the cleaner put the plugs back it and change the oil and filter. Then drive the shit out of it for a few minutes. That may help.

Just a word of caution to everyone reading this. The gm upper combustion chamber cleaner is no joke. It's meant to be used diluted with gasoline through your injectors, and even then it's only for certain injector types, it will eat through brass and other soft metals, It will definitely eat through most plastics, and paint.

The recommendation to allow it to sit overnight is a last ditch effort on a worn engine, and not meant for every car.
GM specifically states not to leave this stuff in the cylinder for more than three hours.


My advice would be; if it hasn't been mentioned yet, on a cold start, with the oil caped removed and the Veh running, you get smoke coming from the valve cover opening, there rings are definitely toast.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by m10-power
Listen to him he's a real mechanic, im amazed with your combination of oil that a ring hasnt dug into the cylinder wall and blown a hole in the block. Likely with the little puff of smoke your engine is going to pile in, probably only good for another 200,000km, better do a full rebuild now.

Lol

I do enjoy how when some one says something that you cannot comprehend or do not understand you bash.
When you have oil that is moving past the rings it collects in the ring lands and builds up carbon. This carbon will push the rings into the cylinder walls. One day there will be enough pressure that the rings will dig into the cylinder walls jamming the piston in the bore.


sugarphreak: I never said to put a engine into the car, I said I think it needs a engine and snake oil will not fix it.

[toastgremlin]

I still think the primary concern is the head gasket like you said - this car is obviously leaking water (white smoke) and the engine is infamous for it.

I don't think combustion chamber cleaner or oil additives are gonna fix that problem. Slack rings are another concern, but I'd rather have a car that burns oil than water and oil (while making a rusty lump in my water jackets).