What type of RV do you have?

[nzwasp]

Wife and I are thinking of buying a smaller RV we have a nissan xterra so we are kind of limited by how much we can tow so we are looking for less than 5000lbs weight, we are sort of looking for less than 19ft but my wife is even keen on more vintage ones such as 1980 boler style.

What type of RV do you have, and what do you pull it with?

[spikerS]

seriously, you are going to be severely limited by trying to keep it under 5k. And the older the trailer, the heavier.

Remember, if your truck can tow 5k, the general rule of thumb is to tow <80% of it. Well, most people anyways.

also remember, that 5k rating, is the trailer, and all your camping supplies, and probably what you have in the cabin of your truck too, best to check the owners manual.

honestly, My opinion, you don't want anything over 3000lbs dry weight, as once you add all your camping supplies and clothing, food, water, you, the wife, the dogs and what not, you are going to be around the 4k range.

I would really recommend something along the lines of a nice pop up tent trailer. They are usually around the 2000-2500lbs mark, tow easily, have all the same amenities, and offer good value as they are usually quite a bit cheaper.

FYI, for some reason, Boelers are the current big thing, and are commanding a premium for what is not very good quality. Even trashy ones are going for $5k.

Also, IIRC, my trailer is 21', and I think around 4500 dry.

[nzwasp]

Thanks for your opinion, we went out to some RV yards in Airdrie and found for a couple of thousand dollars more (than a popup) you can get a super lightweight trailer from 17 to 20 foot in length.

So im leaning towards one of the super lightweights with pop out sides at the moment. Oh and the super lightweights are around 2500-3000 weight.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm running a 1994 19.5' Travelaire Rustler bunk model. Very hard to find bunks in the short length.

It's getting pretty beat up, but it's 5000 lbs loaded down with water and gear. I don't have the scale ticket, but it's around 4000 empty. Water is heavy! My truck is rated to tow around 8500 lbs, so I'm a long way under the rating.

Whatever you buy, you'll want to take your time figuring out how to load it, and playing with your brake controller and WD hitch setup. I spent an evening going round and round at the CAT scale at the truckstop, and I found the WD bars transferred about 400lbs from the back axle to the front on my rig. Your mileage may vary.

I'm considering a newer trailer, and it'll probably be bigger. Also considering a newer truck, which would be rated higher. I think I'd like to stay at least 1000lbs under the truck rating, so I have room for gear in the bed of the truck etc.

Also, do consider buying used. Dealerships are well known for the terrible experience during warranty work, and RV's depreciated hugely. Plus, people always end up adding things, like a solar system, and that can be expensive.

[sxtasy]

I have done a lot of towing, RV's, boats and other trailers. Everyone in this thread seems to have good advice. The Calgary mentality is usually big truck and HUGE trailer. But from my experience with rv's, most of the good camping is west of Calgary, which involves steep mountain climbs at high elevations, which means your tow vehicle is working its ass off. The campsites I like are usually heavily treed and tight spots, so in my opinion a smaller lightweight trailer is the way to go, for ease of towing and manoeuvrability.

Some other advice, go with a top quality brake controller and definitely consider a weight distribution hitch with sway control option, lots of windy highways in Alberta. Also, make sure the majority of weight is on the back wheels of your tow vehicle, this will help control sway.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by sxtasy


Some other advice, go with a top quality brake controller and definitely consider a weight distribution hitch with sway control option, lots of windy highways in Alberta. Also, make sure the majority of weight is on the back wheels of your tow vehicle, this will help control sway.

Sorry, I just need to correct / clarify your last statement.

you need to have more weight ahead of your trailer axel(s) then behind them to combat trailer sway, as an improperly loaded trailer is the biggest cause of trailer sway. putting weight on the rear axle of your truck is not going to combat trailer sway.

but yes, get yourself a good trailer brake controller. I myself like the prodigy P3. Also if you find your trailer going nuts behind you with sway, try a little acceleration first, and if that does not work, apply the trailer brakes manually on the controller slightly until the trailer behaves again.

Also, friction trailer sway controllers are available for about $40, and install pretty easily. Just make sure you disconnect it and WD bars when backing up your trailer. Or, even better, but more expensive, is a WD hitch with cam setups to combat sway.

[spikerS]

anyways, back on topic.

Currently we have a 2006 Springdale 189FL trailer. 25' tongue to bumper.

Specification
Length 23'7"
Width 8'0"
Height 10'6"
Hitch Weight 445 lbs
Dry Weight 4,190 lbs
Cargo Weight 1,755 lbs
Fresh Water Capacity 50 gals
Grey Water Capacity 20 gals
Black Water Capacity 24 gals
Sleeps 7
Tire Size ST205/75D14

I am pulling it with a 2012 F-150 Ecoboost without the trailer tow package and 3.31 rear end gearing. This configuration allows me to tow 8200lbs.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/819393_10151449372691368_1101917903_o.jpg


As for a brake controller, I am using a Tekonsha Prodigy P3. One of the best rated trailer brake controllers out there.
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/9/0/90195_500.jpg

I am by no means a master at this, as I am fairly new to travel trailers. I have way more experience towing cargo and flat deck trailers etc. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have, or take them to more knowledgeable people. C_Dave knows a TON about these trailers, as does Kavy.

[SOAB]

after tons of searching and looking at trailers, we chose this one:

http://kodiak-rv.com/index.php?p=floorplans&model=276BHSL&coast=

i tow it with my F150. i use a Reese Straitline WDH with the Dual-Cam antisway.

i've towed it a few times already and the truck does good with it.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by SOAB
after tons of searching and looking at trailers, we chose this one:

http://kodiak-rv.com/index.php?p=floorplans&amp;model=276BHSL&amp;coast=

i tow it with my F150. i use a Reese Straitline WDH with the Dual-Cam antisway.

i've towed it a few times already and the truck does good with it.

Yeah, we saw that one at the RV show this year. good price, and we decided that will be the one we upgrade to. Such a nice trailer man, good buy!

I want the version of that one that has the small outdoor kitchen behind the vertical door.

*EDIT* sorry, this is the one I was thinking of.

http://kodiak-rv.com/index.php?p=floorplans&model=299BHSL&coast=

[SOAB]

we looked at that one as well and decided that at this time, having the island kitchen with the extra counter space and the double opposing slides create a large space for the 2 little ones to run around in.

i was also worried about the noise that the outside kitchen would let in while they are sleeping and the parents are getting drunk :D

[ExtraSlow]

For brake controllers, I run the Prodigy P2. I had a Tekonsha Voyager a year ago, and while it worked, it was harder to set up, and not nearly as user friendly.

[redline]

I have Nissan Titan truck and pull a 25 foot trailer, weight is 5800lbs dry and about 7000lbs full loaded. I would not want anything heavier or longer.

There is good advise in this thread.

[nzwasp]

So the RV dealer told us that the tin sided rv's (i guess the older rvs with the wavy side pattern - think corrugated pattern) are nearly impossible to insure, is that true. I also asked my insurance about insuring an older vintage trailer and the quote came in at $60 per year with a $250 deductible.

My wife is still leaning towards a good quality vintage trailer like a boler or something similar. I dont mind them too much although not sure too much about maintenance on them.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by nzwasp
So the RV dealer told us that the tin sided rv's (i guess the older rvs with the wavy side pattern - think corrugated pattern) are nearly impossible to insure, is that true. I also asked my insurance about insuring an older vintage trailer and the quote came in at $60 per year with a $250 deductible.

They are hinting about hail damage as tin sided trailers are more vulnerable to hail. Otherwise, there isn't much of a difference.




My wife is still leaning towards a good quality vintage trailer like a boler or something similar. I dont mind them too much although not sure too much about maintenance on them.

Seriously man, the only advantage to a Boler is weight. They are cramped, old, and out dated. They are making a come back, but it is because of the weight, not the quality. I would only consider a fully reconditioned one, and then you are going to pay the same price as a brand new trailer 3 times the size. Seriously, to stay in your 5000lbs capacity is not going to be an issue, so get something better. Trust me, being able to stretch out in bed with your wife is something you won't be able to do comfortably in a Boler.

[AndyL]

Boler's are the new Hipster thing... Albeit they're pretty awesome in terms of a fiberglass RV. But that in itself can be problematic.

Depending on your needs; a teardrop can be an awesome unit - but it's basically just a place to sleep, and cook.
http://www.m2-photo.com/photos/i-M5R8TZ3/3/M/i-M5R8TZ3-M.jpg

But, buying one can be challenging - generally it's more of a DIY project... Again, these have gone hipster - used and new got rather expensive...

Aluminium sided trailers - as an afterthought... mid - late 80s, got thinner siding... The older units - tend to be better. I thought ours was going to look like hell after a few hailstorms - but she's held up better than some of the newer FRP and aluminium sided units in the vicinity during those storms...

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by spikers



Seriously man, the only advantage to a Boler is weight. They are cramped, old, and out dated. They are making a come back, but it is because of the weight, not the quality. I would only consider a fully reconditioned one, and then you are going to pay the same price as a brand new trailer 3 times the size. Seriously, to stay in your 5000lbs capacity is not going to be an issue, so get something better. Trust me, being able to stretch out in bed with your wife is something you won't be able to do comfortably in a Boler.

Maybe we are both 5'1" :P

But yeah she is only looking for something fully restored around 6k max. I dont really see any trailers that are 6k max or atleast not the used trade ins at the rv yards. Havent really looked at kijiji yet.

I dont mind the compact feeling to be honest, the only thing im gonna do is sleep in my trailer - not going to be spending my entire camping trips in there. Ive camped out of a toyota hiace (not sure if they have those in canada) for 3 weeks and it was pretty comfy.

Although if we did get a vintage one im more leaning towards a 17 foot model myself.

[nzwasp]

speaking of buying used, the rv dealers told me every trailer used or new had to have an inspection done - they said it cost $500. Where are these carried out?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by nzwasp


Maybe we are both 5'1&quot; :P

I forgot how many asians are on this board. silly me. If you really are both 5'1", get a teardrop if you want that cozy feeling.



But yeah she is only looking for something fully restored around 6k max. I dont really see any trailers that are 6k max or atleast not the used trade ins at the rv yards. Havent really looked at kijiji yet.

You are not going to find one fully restored for $6k, unless it is a family member wanting to give you a deal. Fully restored, most likely you will be tripling that price. Seriously man, Bolers have become stupid popular with the hipster / retro crowd for weight purposes alone because that is all they can tow weight wise with azteks and other fucked up SUVs and Vans.



I dont mind the compact feeling to be honest, the only thing im gonna do is sleep in my trailer - not going to be spending my entire camping trips in there. Ive camped out of a toyota hiace (not sure if they have those in canada) for 3 weeks and it was pretty comfy.

Although if we did get a vintage one im more leaning towards a 17 foot model myself.

Nor do I when we go camping. But I tell you, if the weather goes to shit, we are going to be much happier in a trailer with a bit of room. But like Andy mentioned, a teardrop trailer may be a better solution, though they can be over priced too, but some of those are pretty fucking sexy.



Originally posted by nzwasp
speaking of buying used, the rv dealers told me every trailer used or new had to have an inspection done - they said it cost $500. Where are these carried out?

the inspection is done by the RV dealer. Refuse it 100%. They have to do the inspection anyways, and it should be included in the price regardless. It is 100% cash grab.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by nzwasp
speaking of buying used, the rv dealers told me every trailer used or new had to have an inspection done - they said it cost $500. Where are these carried out?

That's true if you buy from a dealer. Buying off Kijiji there isn't going to be an inspection required although I'd recommend once if it has a furnace and other gas appliances. I bought a used tent trailer from a dealer this year and they just ate the cost of the inspection and I paid less in the end than anything I found on Kijiji.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by Unknown303


That's true if you buy from a dealer. Buying off Kijiji there isn't going to be an inspection required although I'd recommend once if it has a furnace and other gas appliances. I bought a used tent trailer from a dealer this year and they just ate the cost of the inspection and I paid less in the end than anything I found on Kijiji.

TD was telling me that they have to have an inspection to get insurance...

not sure if thats true or not.

Teardrop wouldnt fit our needs - I looked in one and it seemed like just a bed inside - theres me/wife and one kid.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by nzwasp


TD was telling me that they have to have an inspection to get insurance...



insurance inspection is a whole different deal, and probably required because of the age.

If a teardrop does not fit your needs, I am going to strongly recommend a tent trailer. Those have come a LONG way from where they used to be. I also say, get one with a sliding dinette. you get SO MUCH more room.

Alternatively, try looking at a small hybrid trailer. those combine the best of both worlds!

If you can, try checking out the few dealers out by calaway park, and on Barlow trail in the NE around 16th ave, there is like 20 of them down in that area, with tonns of inventory to check out.

[C_Dave45]

^ never heard of that before.

I got insurance for mine. No inspection required at all.
Don't know where all this "inspection" talk is coming from. Sounds like a scam-cash grab by dealers.
Insurance companies barely even pay attention to RV's. the premiums are pure gravy and when there is a damage claim they pretty much just write it off, cash you out. Maybe if you're insuring a half-million dollar class A.
But for what this thread is talking about...pffft.

As for people talking about size; get the biggest trailer you can for your budget.
"I find this trailer has too much room" no one has ever said in the history of RV'ing.

You'll know what I mean when you hit three solid days of rain and have three kids.

[spikerS]

just a couple I found on Kijiji that are pretty awesome.

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-RVs-campers-trailers-travel-trailers-campers-Jayco-Baja-Off-Road-Tent-Trailer-W0QQAdIdZ486632190

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-RVs-campers-trailers-travel-trailers-campers-2008-Jayco-Select-14HW-Slide-Out-Tent-Trailer-REDUCED-8999-W0QQAdIdZ486344854

Wicked price for 30 mins of needed albow grease
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-RVs-campers-trailers-travel-trailers-campers-2002-Fleetwood-Tent-Trailer-Quick-sale-W0QQAdIdZ486309658


anyways, treat it like a used car purchase. if you find one you like, get it inspected beforehand, and know what you are getting into. Seriously, you wont have any problems with weight for any tent trailer, and a plus side, you don't need near as much room to store them, saving on storage fees.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
^ never heard of that before.

I got insurance for mine. No inspection required at all.
Don't know where all this &quot;inspection&quot; talk is coming from. Sounds like a scam-cash grab by dealers.
Insurance companies barely even pay attention to RV's. the premiums are pure gravy and when there is a damage claim they pretty much just write it off, cash you out. Maybe if you're insuring a half-million dollar class A.
But for what this thread is talking about...pffft.

As for people talking about size; get the biggest trailer you can for your budget.
&quot;I find this trailer has too much room&quot; no one has ever said in the history of RV'ing.

You'll know what I mean when you hit three solid days of rain and have three kids.

FWIW anything this man says that in the slightest way contradicts me, listen to him. :rofl:

[SOAB]

after owning a small 17' trailer with no slide, no counter space, no room to move in, i am happy that i bought a big fucker.

the small size was manageable when i only had on kid (just barely though) but when the second kid came around, NO FUCKING WAY! sold my trailer (in 1 day! on kijiji) and didn't go camping again until we picked up our current trailer.

i would never consider a trailer without a slide. if i'm going to pay to have amenities, i want them all. :D

[spike98]

I totally missed this thread and i just picked up a new trailer with the exact same requirements as you OP.

I picked up a 2013 Rockwood Minilite 1905.

2945lbs Dry

3894lbs Gross

My tow vehicle is a 2012 Grand Cherokee 3.6L V6 with a tow rating of 5000lbs

The whole Minilite 19XX series is under 3000lbs dry with the 1905 being the heaviest. MSRP was $22k and paid $17k before tax. It was a SMOKING deal.

The trailer comes loaded with everything you can imagine. 6 gal water heater, power awning, TV, AC, central heat, Queen sized "murphy bed", two single bunks, and a massive (by trailer standards) bathroom with a tub.

I pull it fine with the JGC but the mileage is the dumps going from 9-10L/100km to about 20L/100km on a windy day. But it feels stable pulling and stopping (with break controller). Its the perfect fit for a small family wanting to camp without going all out.

Here is the link to the manuf site: http://www.forestriverinc.com/TravelTrailers/MiniLite/default.aspx

and the exact one i picked up: http://www.forestriverinc.com/TravelTrailers/MiniLite/default.aspx?model=mini&page=floorplandetails&floorplanid=2987&RVType=trailers

They are hard to come by however. I know the place i picked mine up from had only one left. (PM and ill refer you)

It is the lighest thing i could find short of going tent trailer or spending a lot more.

[codetrap]

This is the one we bought, and it works pretty good. The only thing I wish I'd could have had is the slide-out table. But, this one works pretty good for us and it's no trouble to pull behind our Outlander.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/PopUpCampers/FlagstaffTent/default.aspx?model=ftc&page=floorplandetails&floorplanid=79&RVType=TNT

http://www.forestriverinc.com/images/floorplans/flag/large/205.jpg

[Willis]

I guess we are the typical Calgarian going big truck/trailer. We just got a 32' 2013 Crusader 295RST (http://www.primetimerv.com/default.asp?page=products&model=crusader&choice=floorviewer&name=4818&series=FifthWheels) 5er. Weighs in at 8777lbs dry. Tow vehicle is an F-350.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/403PSD/08F350_13Crusader_zpsd54377b5.jpg

Those tent trailers are pretty pricy. We upgraded from an older motorhome that we went everywhere in. Only downside was you can't detach and drive around to store, showers, etc..

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-RVs-campers-trailers-RVs-motorhomes-1976-Dodge-Shasta-360-CID-V8-C-Class-Motorhome-W0QQAdIdZ486031125

[SOAB]

Originally posted by Willis
I guess we are the typical Calgarian going big truck/trailer. We just got a 32' 2013 Crusader 295RST (http://www.primetimerv.com/default.asp?page=products&amp;model=crusader&amp;choice=floorviewer&amp;name=4818&amp;series=FifthWheels) 5er. Weighs in at 8777lbs dry. Tow vehicle is an F-350.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/403PSD/08F350_13Crusader_zpsd54377b5.jpg



nice trailer! ignore the judgemental guy that thinks everyone should camp like he does.

everyone likes to camp differently. i don't care for trying to get in to the most remote area on earth just to relax for a weekend. i like having amenities and things for my kids to do so that they're entertained.

some want a small trailer for boondocking, some need a toyhauler for dirtbikes and other toys. i want space in my trailer with a/c, heat, lots of storage, a TV with DVD player for the kids, etc.

[Kavy]

Good thread tones of good information, I agree with Spikers that C_Dave is probably the most knowledgeable one I can think of on beyond for RV info.

About the insurance inspection....like everyone has said it a complete fabrication and money grab, I have never known anyone to have to do one.

With the Tent trailer vs Travel Trailer I am very pro Travel Trailer having owned a tent trailer. My thoughts
Tent Trailer Cons:
When it rains you get wet... no matter how well you "think" your Tent Trailer is sealed.
When you pack up you have to get home and dry it out.
If your a light sleeper good luck, you can hear squirrels banging in a tent trailer.
If you like camping early/late into the season you burn through propane as heat does not hold well in a tent trailer.
Hitler supported tent trailers (ok this one may not be true)

Tent Trailer Pros:
Easy to Tow
Easy to Store

I want to chime in my 2 cents on a topic as it was brought up in this thread and might help you in your decision.

I had a 2011 Tacoma with a 6400 tow capacity and towed a 25' 5000lbs trailer with absolutely no issues, trailer was solid. However being that I camp a lot and that it was my wife, me, and our dog I started to look for something smaller that I could get around easier and save on the gas milage.

I in turn purchased one of these: (it wasnt yelow)
https://www.woodysrv.com/showcase/files/rv-images/2013-Minnie-in-Lemon-large.jpg

19 foot and over all the build was amazing and had everything I thought I needed........

Fast forward a few months and 2 camping trips and I was back at the dealer looking to trade it in for a bigger model.

I have a great relationship with the dealer so I was able to purchase a larger trailer and was not out a large amount of money. Additionally when I purchased a larger trailer I then had to purchase a larger truck to pull the trailer. Bottom line I did things super ass backwards and pretty much went full retard.......lesson learned.

This is where I 100% agree with Dave on the point that you buy the biggest trailer that you can
A. currently afford and
B. can currently tow

If you stray from either of those points you will end up regretting your purchase on a daily basis. As an example I would have been better off sticking with the larger trailer I previously owned :cry:

I have now settled into a Prime Time Executive Tracer 2500rbs which is a 30' 5300lbs dry trailer. My Tacoma had to retire to the dealer in exchange for a Ram 1500 with 3.92 rear end and a 5.7 Hemi. Iphone panny ftw
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g200/kavyt/null.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/kavyt/media/null.jpg.html)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g200/kavyt/th_E2E91A57-816C-42E1-860C-E6675F2C3C41-5371-000001FCA8F4DEA8.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/kavyt/media/E2E91A57-816C-42E1-860C-E6675F2C3C41-5371-000001FCA8F4DEA8.jpg.html)

[ExtraSlow]

Top tip when looking for advice about trailers is to IGNORE everything that the dealer tells you. They are generally uninformed about tow vehicles, insurance, hitches, tires, and often RV equipment.
I have a low opinion of most car dealers, but RV dealer staff are 10x worse.

[Kavy]

I also forgot to touch on the WDH and Brake controller points.

Strongly recommend the Tekonsha Prodigy P2 or P3......I don't think there is a better Brake controller out there.

For a WDH the options are seemingly endless. I went with the equalizer brand WDH (http://www.equalizerhitch.com/) as it uses solid bars instead of chains which provides built in sway control. In my experience the shorter the trailer the more it sways. Kijiji is always loaded with WDH for under $300 and most are immaculate.

When it comes to setting up the WDH there is always 2 methods which are commonly used. First method is to use a scale and measure the weight on each axle and balance them accordingly. IMO this method when available is pretty dam solid. When that method is not possible what you can do is measure the distance from the bottom of the wheel well to the ground on your front tire when the tow vehicle is unloaded then hook up your trailer and adjust your WDH till you can bring the distance to within 1" of your original measurement.

Back to the OP.

My Buddy bought this for him and his wife

http://guaranteerv.com/showroom/details.html?stockno=1367PT

I think its 2600lb dry and 3000lb fully loaded with water and he absolutely loves it. Way more roomy then I would have ever guessed for a 16' and it a better option then an overpriced boler (IMO)

[spike98]

Originally posted by Kavy
I also forgot to touch on the WDH and Brake controller points.

Strongly recommend the Tekonsha Prodigy P2 or P3......I don't think there is a better Brake controller out there.

For a WDH the options are seemingly endless. I went with the equalizer brand WDH (http://www.equalizerhitch.com/) as it uses solid bars instead of chains which provides built in sway control. In my experience the shorter the trailer the more it sways. Kijiji is always loaded with WDH for under $300 and most are immaculate.

When it comes to setting up the WDH there is always 2 methods which are commonly used. First method is to use a scale and measure the weight on each axle and balance them accordingly. IMO this method when available is pretty dam solid. When that method is not possible what you can do is measure the distance from the bottom of the wheel well to the ground on your front tire when the tow vehicle is unloaded then hook up your trailer and adjust your WDH till you can bring the distance to within 1&quot; of your original measurement.

Back to the OP.

My Buddy bought this for him and his wife

http://guaranteerv.com/showroom/details.html?stockno=1367PT

I think its 2600lb dry and 3000lb fully loaded with water and he absolutely loves it. Way more roomy then I would have ever guessed for a 16' and it a better option then an overpriced boler (IMO)

Kavy, Id like to derail a bit and ask you a question...

I had one dealer tell me i needed a WDH on my JGC. Its an Overland with the adjustable air suspension and auto leveling. I have a feeling that to set one up it would actually brake something as suspension levels the ride and adjusts as load is applied.

The purpose of the load leveling is to keep the level of gravity constant when applying a load. Wouldn't the two systems be redundant?

[ExtraSlow]

If you want the scale method of setting up your trailer and WDH, there are three CAT scale locations in Calgary that are perfect for this. They'll give you weight on both axles of yur truck plus weight on your trailer axles independently. It's not tough to do, and it's not expensive. I think it's $12 for the first weigh and then $2 for each re-weigh, so assuming you play around with your setup a few times, you'll be into it for under $20 in total, and you'll know for sure that you are set up correctly and safe for the road.

I recommend this each time you change tow vehicles or tailers.

[96GrandAMGT]

i currently have a 2013 jayco whitehawk 28dsbh (32 ft bumper to hitch) 590 hitch weight, 5609 dry weight i use my 2009 f150 crew cab 6.5ft box with max tow good for 11,200 lbs according to cam clark ford.... i used to have a 2011 flagstaff 228D tent trailer with slide out and it was 2300lbs dry.... used to pull that with my sport trac which was good for 5000lbs and i had to add air bags in the rear.... i know its not much help but a travel trailer will be hard to keep within ur tow rating ur looking for..... also the best rule of thumb i was told take ur recomended tow rating and split in 1/2 and thats the ideal amount you should tow

[baygirl]

Originally posted by Kavy

Sob story:cry:

So sorry to hear you regret selling your trailer. No take backsy's allowed(kind of a "I licked it, it's mine" scenerio...)


Seriously though, your new trailer looks awesome:)

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by baygirl

(kind of a &quot;I licked it, it's mine&quot; scenerio...)



Wait...are you talking about the trailer or Spikers? ;)

[SOAB]

Originally posted by spike98


Kavy, Id like to derail a bit and ask you a question...

I had one dealer tell me i needed a WDH on my JGC. Its an Overland with the adjustable air suspension and auto leveling. I have a feeling that to set one up it would actually brake something as suspension levels the ride and adjusts as load is applied.

The purpose of the load leveling is to keep the level of gravity constant when applying a load. Wouldn't the two systems be redundant?

from what i've read, if you are using a WDH with a vehicle that has air ride/leveling system, you need to hook up and adjust your WDH with the car off.

hook up your hitch than adjust your WDH so that it puts weight back onto the front axle properly, than start your car.

this way, your vehicle starts level and the air system will keep it level.

[hedge]

I have a 5th wheel and a slide-in truck camper. The truck camper is more for the backcountry trips and we use the 5th wheel for resorts. I'm slowly weaning my wife off the resorts so we may get rid of the 5th wheel.

I agree the Prodigy is probably the best brake controller... unless your vehicle comes with a factory one. I think the factory ones are a bit better because they are also integrated with the ABS brakes. Almost every truck built in the last 5 years has a built in brake controller, not sure if they put them in SUV's.

[cycosis]

1977 Dodge Triple E. Its the festival wagon :)

Had the roof mounted air conditioner catch fire last summer. That was nice and scary. So I ripped it out and just replaced with with a roof vent.

Its freakin slow though. Small mopar 360 and a 3 speed transmission. When we have our trailer attached, it maxs out around 95 km/h.

Edit: Read the thread wrong. THought it was about RVs towing trailers haha


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f263/_cycosis_/IMG00197-20110822-1721.jpg

[Kavy]

Originally posted by spike98


Kavy, Id like to derail a bit and ask you a question...

I had one dealer tell me i needed a WDH on my JGC. Its an Overland with the adjustable air suspension and auto leveling. I have a feeling that to set one up it would actually brake something as suspension levels the ride and adjusts as load is applied.

The purpose of the load leveling is to keep the level of gravity constant when applying a load. Wouldn't the two systems be redundant?

Great question, I also have Air on my new Ram so I know what you are going through.

Best option is to disable the load leveling system (not possible on all vehicles) and setup your hitch then re-enable the system again.

If you cannot disable then SOAB nailed it on the head.
Park the vehicle in front of the trailer leave it running, get out of the vehicle and close the doors. After 2-3 minutes it will level itself. Then turn the vehicle off and lower the trailer on to the hitch. Adjust the WDH from there using the front fender to ground measure method. Like SOAB said the auto leveling will then adjust once you turn on the vehicle, this leveling will be minimal. I have seen people try to adjust the WDH with the vehicle on and its an exercise in futility. The upside is once you have the WDH dialed in you don't have to worry about adjusting it again unless something major changes in your suspension or load in the trailer.

I agree with the dealer as the load leveling system works differently then the WDH. A load leveling system is there to add spring rate to keep the vehicle level it does not transfer load. A WDH purpose is to transfer weight/load evenly to the axles and insure that the load is shared.


Originally posted by 96GrandAMGT
..... also the best rule of thumb i was told take ur recomended tow rating and split in 1/2 and thats the ideal amount you should tow

I disagree, 80% is a good rule of thumb. I have had several tow vehicles and I have always towed at 75-80% of the max rating and have not had a single issue. 50% would mean everyone would be driving around with 4500's and 450's to pull their travel trailers :)


Originally posted by baygirl

So sorry to hear you regret selling your trailer. No take backsy's allowed(kind of a "I licked it, it's mine" scenerio...)

Seriously though, your new trailer looks awesome:)

hahah thanks!

How was the first trip?

[baygirl]

Originally posted by Kavy

hahah thanks!

How was the first trip?
It was great:) Not only did I survive, I actually kind of liked it (that is as much as I will admit to, or else spikers gets to say he was right...). However that fold out couch is NOT comfortable to sleep on. Was the mattress pad on the bottom bunk for the sofa bed?

[nzwasp]

So we ended up buying an RV on kijiji, I called TD moloche for a insurance quote - pretty cheap except it needs this vehicle inspection for older vehicles.

Called all the calgary AMA places - none of them do trailers. Found a guy online - that says they do RV inspections - they said I need to call some RV dealers.

Called some RV dealers they had no idea what I was talking about.

Im not really sure what to do now. Do i call td and call them out for telling me a load of bs or do i get insurance from a company that doesnt require an inspection?

Edit: Spoke to TD - they checked the fine print and since im towing it they dont need an inspection. Pisses me off that the last two people I spoke to just presumed that it was a self drivable RV vehicle

[SOAB]

are you calling it an "RV" or a travel trailer? i because an RV to me is something that is self propelled (has its own motor).

[spikerS]

Originally posted by nzwasp


Edit: Spoke to TD - they checked the fine print and since im towing it they dont need an inspection. Pisses me off that the last two people I spoke to just presumed that it was a self drivable RV vehicle



Originally posted by SOAB
are you calling it an &quot;RV&quot; or a travel trailer? i because an RV to me is something that is self propelled (has its own motor).

That was what my thoughts were too.

I imagine that a few people wanted to sound more baller, and dealers wanting to dress up a travel trailer by calling it an RV.

To me, an RV is a motor home of any size and class
A 5th wheel travel trailer is just that
A travel trailer is interchangeable with a bumper pull to me
A tent trailer is not the same as a pop up to me

but the above conventions have been accepted for the most part, but it still creates a lot of confusion for some, because the all encompassing term "RV" is not really accepted across the board 100%.

[C_Dave45]

"RV" is "Recreational Vehicle". Recreation Vehicles are broken down by categories:

A. Motor home; either class A (big bus, diesel pusher, etc) or Class "C". Van front, camper chassis attached

B. 5th Wheel. (attaches to a hitch on a deck)

C. Travel Trailer or tent trailer (conventional bumper pull trailer)

and then finally
D. "Camper" goes on the back of your truck.

All of those are "RV's".

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
&quot;RV&quot; is &quot;Recreational Vehicle&quot;. Recreation Vehicles are broken down by categories:

A. Motor home; either class A (big bus, diesel pusher, etc) or Class &quot;C&quot;. Van front, camper chassis attached

B. 5th Wheel. (attaches to a hitch on a deck)

C. Travel Trailer or tent trailer (conventional bumper pull trailer)

and then finally
D. &quot;Camper&quot; goes on the back of your truck.

All of those are &quot;RV's&quot;.

See, I disagree.

an RV or Recreational Vehicle, is a Vehicle that moves, as a means of transportation.

A trailer is not a vehicle, as in, it can not move on it's own, and requires an outside source of propulsion, and thus not an RV, but a TT or travel trailer.

That's what I grew up with, and was the accepted norm for everyone I ever talked to, up until the past few years.

[Tik-Tok]

Lol, we were just talking about this at work yesterday. I don't care what the government classifies them as. A RV should be powered on it's own, and trailer has to be pulled.

[C_Dave45]

Tomato/Tomahto....

Local terms differ. Each one calls 'em differently. Never heard of a "Travel Trailer" show or TT dealer. "RV" dealers/shows have all classes of "vehicles" both motorized and pulled.

Any forum on the subject calls the entire fleet of trailers/campers/motorhomes "RV's", and then break them down accordingly.

http://www.rvusa.com/forum/vbulletin/forum.php

http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/

Doesn't really matter, does it? I call our SUV a "car". :dunno:

When in doubt, always refer to the almighty, omnipotent Wikipedia!! :rofl:


A recreational vehicle normally includes kitchen, bathroom, and sleeping facilities. In other countries the terms caravan, camper van or motorhome are more common, and the vehicles themselves vary, although typically being smaller than those in North America.

Recreational vehicles include the motorhome (class A, B, B+, and C), travel trailer, fifth wheel trailer, toy hauler, popup trailer, and slide-in camper.

Wikipedia's List of "recreational vehicles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recreational_vehicles)

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Tomato/Tomahto....

Local terms differ. Each one calls 'em differently. Never heard of a &quot;Travel Trailer&quot; show or TT dealer. &quot;RV&quot; dealers/shows have all classes of &quot;vehicles&quot; both motorized and pulled.

Any forum on the subject calls the entire fleet of trailers/campers/motorhomes &quot;RV's&quot;, and then break them down accordingly.

Doesn't really matter, does it? I call our SUV a &quot;car&quot;. :dunno:

When in doubt, always refer to the almight, omnipotent Wikipedia!!

[quote]A recreational vehicle normally includes kitchen, bathroom, and sleeping facilities. In other countries the terms caravan, camper van or motorhome are more common, and the vehicles themselves vary, although typically being smaller than those in North America.

Recreational vehicles include the motorhome (class A, B, B+, and C), travel trailer, fifth wheel trailer, toy hauler, popup trailer, and slide-in camper.

see, I had this whole play nice post in my head, and agreeing with you, and was going to say that it seems that RV has become to acceptable all encompassing term.

Then you had to ninja edit and bring Wiki into it. As such, I want you to submit any paper citing wikipedia as your source, and see what your grade is! All wiki is, is an information source of what a certain set of people believe to be true, and can be changed over the years.

but, regardless, the term RV has become an accepted all encompassing term, having said that, some old school guys like me, are always going to have to pause, and inevitably ask the question "That's awesome you bought a new RV! Is it a Motorhome or travel trailer?"

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by spikers


see, I had this whole play nice post in my head, and agreeing with you, and was going to say that it seems that RV has become to acceptable all encompassing term.

Then you had to ninja edit and bring Wiki into it. As such, I want you to submit any paper citing wikipedia as your source, and see what your grade is! All wiki is, is an information source of what a certain set of people believe to be true, and can be changed over the years.

but, regardless, the term RV has become an accepted all encompassing term, having said that, some old school guys like me, are always going to have to pause, and inevitably ask the question &quot;That's awesome you bought a new RV! Is it a Motorhome or travel trailer?&quot;

HAHAHA...yeah Wiki is good for whatever side you want to support. I think there may even be mention of myself in Wikipedia (gee...wonder who put that in there!?) ;) :angel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_car_forums

Nope...nuh huhhh...Wikipedia says so...so there!!

*ninja edit: I wish I had captured a screenshot..but awhile ago under "Calgary Flames" the definition was "a women's professional ice hockey team from Canada..." hahaha...no it wasn't me, but it was pretty funny. Didn't take long for that to get changed.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by spikers





That was what my thoughts were too.

I imagine that a few people wanted to sound more baller, and dealers wanting to dress up a travel trailer by calling it an RV.

To me, an RV is a motor home of any size and class
A 5th wheel travel trailer is just that
A travel trailer is interchangeable with a bumper pull to me
A tent trailer is not the same as a pop up to me

but the above conventions have been accepted for the most part, but it still creates a lot of confusion for some, because the all encompassing term &quot;RV&quot; is not really accepted across the board 100%.

When i called it a trailer (first time I called) they thought I meant utility trailer - something that I would pull garbage around with.

[jonnycat]

2013 Keystone Laredo 291tg, 6800lbs dry, 33' long. I pull it with my 2009 Titan, with WD hitch. The aero cap on the front is saving me 8L/100km over my last trailer even with weighing 1000lbs more.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/jonnycat69/WP_20130526_001.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/jonnycat69/media/WP_20130526_001.jpg.html)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/jonnycat69/WP_20130526_002.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/jonnycat69/media/WP_20130526_002.jpg.html)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/jonnycat69/WP_20130526_004.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/jonnycat69/media/WP_20130526_004.jpg.html)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/jonnycat69/LethbridgeCounty-20120622-00028.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/jonnycat69/media/LethbridgeCounty-20120622-00028.jpg.html)

[Tomaz]

I have an old Combi-Camp clamshell tent trailer. <1000lbs. When folded, it's about the size of a queen-sized mattress. Love it! So simple, and my Mazda 3 can tow it!

Sorry for the shitty pic:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/242705_10150276896066183_6392224_o.jpg

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by jonnycat


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/jonnycat69/LethbridgeCounty-20120622-00028.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/jonnycat69/media/LethbridgeCounty-20120622-00028.jpg.html)

I love those outdoor kitchen trailers. Such a great idea.

[ExtraSlow]

Johnny, sweet rig. How do you find it handles behind the Titan? Decent in crosswinds? Have you ever wieghed it with full tanks and loaded with gear? Wondering if you're under your rating on that setup.

My piddly little 19 footer that's 20 years old doens't really compare . . .

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


I love those outdoor kitchen trailers. Such a great idea.

yup, our next trailer will have it.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Johnny, sweet rig. How do you find it handles behind the Titan? Decent in crosswinds? Have you ever wieghed it with full tanks and loaded with gear? Wondering if you're under your rating on that setup.

My piddly little 19 footer that's 20 years old doens't really compare . . .

I thought that too, but:

2009 Titan, the PRO-4X configuration allows for 9,300lbs towing (with towing package, 7,300lbs without.), with 930lbs on the hitch.

as for the trailer:
Shipping Weight
6,563 lbs
Carrying Capacity
1,637 lbs
Hitch
785 lbs

so technically, he is under spec, but not by much, but it puts him over over the magical 80% safety threshold by ~12.5%. If he does not have the towing package, almost as soon as he loads anything in it, he would be over weight.

While I know it is all within spec (with tow package), I wouldn't feel safe towing that.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't get hung up on the 80% safety margin, and who knows how much gear he hauls when he's camping. Some guys load the truck bed with a thousand pounds, travel with every tank full, and five adults in the truck. There are a lot of variables.

They do make trailers so much lighter these days too. Ten years ago, a trailer that long would have weighted 10,000 lbs dry.

I'm jelly in any event.

[spike98]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
They do make trailers so much lighter these days too. Ten years ago, a trailer that long would have weighted 10,000 lbs dry.

This! My buddy has a small jayco tent trailer for the early 90's and it weights as much as my 19 foot fully furnished travel trailer with all the bells and whistles.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I don't get hung up on the 80% safety margin, and who knows how much gear he hauls when he's camping. Some guys load the truck bed with a thousand pounds, travel with every tank full, and five adults in the truck. There are a lot of variables.


I worry about it. If someone built a bridge, and they certify that it will support 300lbs, and I want to walk over it at 295, I am pretty fucking nervous. I mean, I could be just fine, until I reach the middle, and have an epic sneeze, and that disturbance throws everything out of whack and the bridge collapses and I fall 4000 feet into a thimble of water.

Now if I was 240lbs, I won't have any issues.




I'm jelly in any event.

Ditto

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by spikers


I worry about it. If someone built a bridge, and they certify that it will support 300lbs, and I want to walk over it at 295, I am pretty fucking nervous. I mean, I could be just fine, until I reach the middle, and have an epic sneeze, and that disturbance throws everything out of whack and the bridge collapses and I fall 4000 feet into a thimble of water.

Now if I was 240lbs, I won't have any issues.


What's on paper is FARRR different from what actual capabilities are though. I would even be willing to bet that the Toyota has a bigger safety margin than any domestics as well.

[Kavy]

I know toyotas have large safety margins but he drives a Nissan :)

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Kavy
I know toyotas have large safety margins but he drives a Nissan :)

Lol, I should have said Nissan as well.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


What's on paper is FARRR different from what actual capabilities are though. I would even be willing to bet that the Toyota has a bigger safety margin than any domestics as well.

doesn't matter. Law goes by what is on the GVWR sticker and by what the manufacturer says is safe.

I know when I have towed trailers at almost capacity, it gets fucking squirrly pretty quick.

Sure it may be able to travel and cruise at a higher number, but you gotta remember, the brakes have to stop all that extra weight... and in worst case scenario, it becomes pretty easy for that much weight to make the tail wag the dog.

[SOAB]

I'm positive that the car manufacturers have some safety margins in all of their towing and load carrying specs.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by SOAB
I'm positive that the car manufacturers have some safety margins in all of their towing and load carrying specs.

alright, if we are all going to open that can of worms, I want anyone that is going to use this argument to start quoting exact numbers with reliable sources.

is the safety margin 100lbs? 1000lbs? 50% of GVWR?

How much is this safety margin, and how is it determined?

In an automotive segment where towing numbers are a big selling point, and very competitive across the brands, I would not expect them to be reducing the max numbers much for a "buffer zone"

[spike98]

Originally posted by spikers


I worry about it. If someone built a bridge, and they certify that it will support 300lbs, and I want to walk over it at 295, I am pretty fucking nervous. I mean, I could be just fine, until I reach the middle, and have an epic sneeze, and that disturbance throws everything out of whack and the bridge collapses and I fall 4000 feet into a thimble of water.

Now if I was 240lbs, I won't have any issues.



Ditto

They design factors of safety into everything with a rating. A attentive driver with a well equipped vehicle (brake controller, proper hitch, weight distributed evenly ect) should be able to safely operate a tow up to the rated limits of the vehicle.

However, myself, i love to include an extra factor of safety when i tow just for my piece of mind. I tow at 50% of my rating.

Now for the bridge, assuming good engineering practices, will be designed for much more. They will design it for environmental loads (wind, snow ect) THEN times that by a factor of safety (i believe is 5x for bridges but i am not an architect) then they assign it a load rating.

It does get much more complicated than that but i assure you if its rated for 300lbs then you could weight 300lbs, jump, with 2 feet of snow on it, in a tornado, with degrading concrete supports, and corrosion loss on the steel structure all day long.

[jonnycat]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Johnny, sweet rig. How do you find it handles behind the Titan? Decent in crosswinds? Have you ever wieghed it with full tanks and loaded with gear? Wondering if you're under your rating on that setup.

My piddly little 19 footer that's 20 years old doens't really compare . . .

Trailer handles great behind the truck, though I haven't weighed it at a scale yet, but I am running right at the maximum for the magical rule of 80%. based on research. I love the outside kitchen. i never use the inside one for much anymore. This one also has the rvq rack around the back corner, that swings around so i can bbq, fry, wash disehes and bartend all at oncEe


Originally posted by spikers


I thought that too, but:

2009 Titan, the PRO-4X configuration allows for 9,300lbs towing (with towing package, 7,300lbs without.), with 930lbs on the hitch.

as for the trailer:
Shipping Weight
6,563 lbs
Carrying Capacity
1,637 lbs
Hitch
785 lbs

so technically, he is under spec, but not by much, but it puts him over over the magical 80% safety threshold by ~12.5%. If he does not have the towing package, almost as soon as he loads anything in it, he would be over weight.

While I know it is all within spec (with tow package), I wouldn't feel safe towing that.

I've got the big tow pkg on her which gives me a 9500lb rating and am running 10 ply tires. I've basically got the biggest i can get while staying within the 80% rule. I swear that one picture makes it look much bigger than it really is, but this is such an easy tow.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by spikers


alright, if we are all going to open that can of worms, I want anyone that is going to use this argument to start quoting exact numbers with reliable sources.

is the safety margin 100lbs? 1000lbs? 50% of GVWR?

How much is this safety margin, and how is it determined?

In an automotive segment where towing numbers are a big selling point, and very competitive across the brands, I would not expect them to be reducing the max numbers much for a &quot;buffer zone&quot;

search for the tundra towing the space shuttle video. according to you, that truck should've blown up.

lets try the GVWR.

if you actually think that a 7600GVWR is the absolute limit a specific truck can carry without blowing up or falling apart, please quote me one (1) instance where it was determined that being overweight by less than 100lbs caused the truck to fall apart.

I will give you 100lb difference even though you are so sure that there is no safety margin at all from the manufacturer.

[ExtraSlow]

SOAB, don't be asinine. Nobody is saying the truck will blow up if you are one pound over the rating. That video of the tundra towing the shuttle makes for some fun pictures, but it's not a meaningful demonstration of the towing capabilities of that vehicle, and even Toyota admits that.

What the tow ratings are designed to do is provide guidance about a SAFE load that can be towed repeatedly in hilly terrain. It takes in account the ability of the vehicle to accelerate reasonable (merging), turn suddenly, crosswinds, and extended downhills. For most of us, the real limiting factor is our brakes. Trailer brakes can and do fail with more regularity than truck brakes.

I agree with spikers almost completely. All I'm saying is that I'm comfortable going right up to the rating numbers without building in another level of safety. He's right that we don't know how much margin is built in from the factory, and for marketing reasons, it may not be as big as we think.

The SAE was working on some kind of standardized tow ratings system, which was rumoured to be stricter than what manufacturers use currently. If that's true, and it comes in effect, expect to see trucks de-rated. No more half tons rated to 11,000 lbs and higher.

EDIT, I just looked it up, and it looks like SAE J2807 came out in 2008 for implementation in the 2013 model year. Anyone know if the manufacturers actually follow this?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by SOAB


search for the tundra towing the space shuttle video. according to you, that truck should've blown up.

lets try the GVWR.

if you actually think that a 7600GVWR is the absolute limit a specific truck can carry without blowing up or falling apart, please quote me one (1) instance where it was determined that being overweight by less than 100lbs caused the truck to fall apart.

I will give you 100lb difference even though you are so sure that there is no safety margin at all from the manufacturer.

man, the facepalm smiley does not even do your post justice.

the Tundra towing the space shuttle was a set up publicity stunt that moved at a whole<1mph with a guy in the shuttle with his feet on the brakes when it was over. All the tundra had to do was overcome the rolling resistance of the shuttle. And The truck was a write off for toyota, as apparently that truck is now in storage as a toyota collectors piece after a through inspection to the driveline and frame. (It was also rumored that the frame was reinforced).

I still challenge you to show me how much of a "safety margin" there is built in to a truck's towing numbers.

If a rope is rated to hold 100lbs, are you going to put 99lbs of $1000 bills in a sack, and dangle it over a cliff? or would you get a stronger rope, or risk less $1000 bills in the sack? (and before some dumbass puts in a smartass remark about why, who cares why, you just have to for arguments sake.)

[Kavy]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow


EDIT, I just looked it up, and it looks like SAE J2807 came out in 2008 for implementation in the 2013 model year. Anyone know if the manufacturers actually follow this?

Yes Toyota 2011 and up Model year trucks follow the new system as do Dodge 2013 trucks.

Examples:
Tacoma is rated for 7000lbs previously and changed to 6400lbs in 2012 even though there was no changes to the drivetrain or structure.

GMC started 2013 by complying but then pulled it back and used old numbers when Ford refused to follow the new standard (because it dropped the F150 towing capacity by 600-2400 on some models no longer making it the big cheese).

No information was published about Nissan.

* Before the fanboys come out and attack all information above is from a SAE international article published March 2013 on sae.org

Edit: Read more and Nissan and GMC will follow the new standard in 2014 when there is a redesign of their trucks. Ford has said when a redesign happens in 2015 they will follow suit.

[sxtasy]

spikers, the safety margins are huge. A guy I know has towed long distances way over "rated capacities" through western Canadian mountain passes. There are so many variables involved it is necessary to have large safety margins. Probably one of the biggest variables is driver skill.

With that being said, I still like the idea of having a 20% buffer, being under rated capacity. Nobody likes being that guy struggling to pull the Rogers pass slowing up traffic.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by sxtasy
spikers, the safety margins are huge. A guy I know has towed long distances way over &quot;rated capacities&quot; through western Canadian mountain passes. There are so many variables involved it is necessary to have large safety margins. Probably one of the biggest variables is driver skill.



sure it is, everyone thinks this, yet no one can show proof.

Ford will void your drivetrain warranty if they can prove that you have gone over capacity. As Kavy and Extraslow have mentioned that SAE wants to change the formula to calculate towing capacity to one that is lower. Why is that?

Everyone believes there is a safety margin, but again, no one can explain to me how much that margin is. I wonder why?

Again, towing capacity on trucks is a highly competitive, in a highly competitive market. Do you really believe that there is this huge "buffer" when towing numbers are so tight?

I agree, a truck can probably tow more than the numbers state, but tow rating is only as strong as the weakest part in the driveline, and this must be rated as such. While skill can play a part, it can't affect chance.

again, until someone can show me how big, or small, these buffers are, and the formula used to calculate the towing capacity, it is just speculation and imagination.

[SOAB]

i don't actually care to prove anyone wrong, just don't pass of your own personal 80% rule as a magical number when in fact, it is a number pulled out of thin air.

why not 70? or 50 like the other dude? i would need a fucken F550 to tow any decent sized trailer if i listened to him.

the manufacturers state their towing numbers to give consumers a number that they can tow safely and reliably. if you don't feel comfortable towing that much, don't. but don't state your beliefs as fact. you might as well be modelexis. :poosie:

here is a question for you weight police. why doesn't my GVWR equal my combined axle ratings? how is it that i can hook up to a trailer, be BELOW both axle ratings but above GVWR?

[sxtasy]

Originally posted by spikers


sure it is, everyone thinks this, yet no one can show proof.

Ford will void your drivetrain warranty if they can prove that you have gone over capacity. As Kavy and Extraslow have mentioned that SAE wants to change the formula to calculate towing capacity to one that is lower. Why is that?

Everyone believes there is a safety margin, but again, no one can explain to me how much that margin is. I wonder why?

Again, towing capacity on trucks is a highly competitive, in a highly competitive market. Do you really believe that there is this huge &quot;buffer&quot; when towing numbers are so tight?

I agree, a truck can probably tow more than the numbers state, but tow rating is only as strong as the weakest part in the driveline, and this must be rated as such. While skill can play a part, it can't affect chance.

again, until someone can show me how big, or small, these buffers are, and the formula used to calculate the towing capacity, it is just speculation and imagination.
Lol not sure how you want me to show you proof. Lets just say I have seen it done before.

Tow capacities are made for Joe Blow. And when I speak of driver skill, Joe Blow does not monitor/check tire pressure, tire rating, egt's, trans temps, braking ability of trailer, proper brake controller set up, the list goes on...

Lets just say you could probably tow twice your ecoboosts rating around Alberta and be just fine. I'll leave that up to you to prove ;)

[Kavy]

Although I do agree tow capacities are undervalued (I towed 7k will my tacoma several times just fine) I don't agree that "skill" can offset a trucks stopping power when greatly over the capacity.

I researched this new SAE tow rating greatly for 2 months before deciding on my new truck as I planned on towing 500-800kms a month and it was a major buying point for me.
The new SAE ratings are different because they are no longer calculated on just pulling power like previously.
The new standards are determined by the following metrics:
The engine's power and torque characteristics
The powertrain's cooling capacity
The durability of the powertrain and chassis
Handling characteristics during cornering and braking maneuvers
The structural characteristics of the vehicle's hitch attachment area

The main reason toyotas ratings went down was the front brakes of the trucks were smaller, which greatly reduced the ratings under the new system. Ford has great pulling power and achieved great ratings on the old system but suffered in braking, cornering and GVWR making their new ratings lower. According to the 2013 tow rating guide several of the F150's fall into the 7000-8000lb range under the new system that were at 10K in the old system, I can see why some manufacturers are scared of the new rating system.


And please don't think I am attacking Ford here guys just giving examples, I think the new Fords are one of the top truck options out there.

[sxtasy]

Originally posted by Kavy
Although I do agree tow capacities are undervalued (I towed 7k will my tacoma several times just fine) I don't agree that &quot;skill&quot; can offset a trucks stopping power when greatly over the capacity.
Stopping ability has a lot to do with your trailer's braking ability. I tow a tandem dually gooseneck, the brakes on it are incredible.
http://images01.olx.com/ui/2/78/26/21627226_1.jpg
A duramax or Ram Cummins can tow 30k all day no problem if you are smart about it. Skill comes to play with safe stopping distances, being in the correct gear, proper load and brake controller setup.

[Kavy]

^
I think we are getting off base here. I am speaking in terms of travel trailers and half tones like most in this thread. (Its an RV camping thread)

Comparing those tow ratings and capabilities to 650's towing 30K loads with multi axel trailer brakes is far from a fair comparison.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by SOAB
i don't actually care to prove anyone wrong, just don't pass of your own personal 80% rule as a magical number when in fact, it is a number pulled out of thin air.

It is because you can't prove me wrong. And it is not my personal 80% rule. It has been around for longer than I can remember, and is the accepted practice. RV dealers even preach that number to this day, others don't give a shit and push the biggest trailer they can. Additionally, it is used because people never know the exact weight of their trailer. so people use it as a "rule of thumb" to give themselves leeway when loading. I don't know, playing it safe, rather than sorry, seems like a good idea to me.

To demonstrate that this number is not some "number I pulled from thin air"
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=19374.0

http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26430250/gotomsg/26430620.cfm


why not 70? or 50 like the other dude? i would need a fucken F550 to tow any decent sized trailer if i listened to him. Yes, you would. It would be much safer. Can you run 20lbs of boost on an engine? sure! will it wear faster, causing a catastrophic failure? It has a much better chance than at 16lbs.

One thing is mentioned constantly about towing at the limit of their tow vehicle, that it is no fun, stressful, and accelerates wear, and that many find the 80% rule a comfortable experience.




the manufacturers state their towing numbers to give consumers a number that they can tow safely and reliably. if you don't feel comfortable towing that much, don't. but don't state your beliefs as fact. you might as well be modelexis. :poosie:

See above, and that you have sunk to personal insults by comparing me to Modelexis tells a lot.




here is a question for you weight police. why doesn't my GVWR equal my combined axle ratings? how is it that i can hook up to a trailer, be BELOW both axle ratings but above GVWR?

I don't quite understand your question, but your Tow vehicles rating is rated to the weakest link in your vehicle.

I know in my truck, with a max tow package, I can tow 11,200lbs according to ford. But because I have the 3.31 gearing, I am limited to 8200lbs, because the max tow packages come with 3.73 and 4.10 gearing, bigger brakes, and coolers.

regardless, no one is saying you can't do maximum towing, but unless you have scales that you can put under the tires and measure the weights from each axle, you don't know your weights, so a safe number is to shoot for the 80%.

Common sense is not so common apparently.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by sxtasy

Lol not sure how you want me to show you proof. Lets just say I have seen it done before.

Tow capacities are made for Joe Blow. And when I speak of driver skill, Joe Blow does not monitor/check tire pressure, tire rating, egt's, trans temps, braking ability of trailer, proper brake controller set up, the list goes on...

Lets just say you could probably tow twice your ecoboosts rating around Alberta and be just fine. I'll leave that up to you to prove ;)

I want you to show me how much of a buffer zone is built in. I want you to show me what is the absolute maximum a truck can tow, where that line is.

The manufacturers have shown that number and stand behind it. The law says you must follow what the manufacturer states. Everyone says there is this "buffer" zone, but can't state how much it is, yet say that by going over you will be fine. Is the buffer zone a specific weight number? a percentage of GVCW? What is it? no one knows!

Could my ecoboost tow more than 8200#s? I am pretty sure it could. Would I? not in a million years without a pretty damn good reason. I am not looking to wear out trannies, turbos, engines and such prematurely.

If I buy a trailer that is over my TVs rating, and tow it, and end up at fault in an accident, my insurance will probably pay out, but I bet I get sued afterwards.

[sxtasy]

I think we are getting off base here. I am speaking in terms of travel trailers and half tones like most in this thread. (Its an RV camping thread)

Comparing those tow ratings and capabilities to 650's towing 30K loads with multi axel trailer brakes is far from a fair comparison.

ha yes, off track just a little. And no, I am talking about pickup trucks 3/4tons and srw 1 tons.

Point being is tow capacity on the truck does not mean a whole lot, there are so many factors. A truck with a lower tow rating could tow better than one with a higher tow rating. Think about it like fuel economy ratings or hp ratings, your mileage may vary in the real world. An example, in our fleet we have a F-550 with a 460, even though the tow rating is higher than the 3/4ton duramax, I'd much rather tow with the duramax any day, more engine power, way better transmission with the allison, better braking...


Originally posted by spikers


I want you to show me how much of a buffer zone is built in. I want you to show me what is the absolute maximum a truck can tow, where that line is.

Lend me your truck and I'll show you proove :poosie:

I'm not going to debate whether or not you should go over your tow rating, as I posted earlier, I like the 80% rule

[jonnycat]

You are going to build a truck...You decide on axles that lets say are rated (that rating is how much weight the axle assembly will hold up) for 3500 lbs each. Now you design your frame that the axles will be mounted to. You design and test this frame and come to the conclusion that it will support 6500 lbs total loaded weight. Now you check your axles and find that the truck you just designed will NOT overload the axles....

Yes the combined axle ratings of both axles exceeds the trucks GVWR rating, but that is the only way to insure that the whole thing will be safe AND carry what you advertise.

So all trucks have axle ratings that exceed the trucks GVWR.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by sxtasy




Lend me your truck and I'll show you proove :poosie:



:rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:

[SOAB]

Originally posted by spikers


It is because you can't prove me wrong. And it is not my personal 80% rule. It has been around for longer than I can remember, and is the accepted practice. RV dealers even preach that number to this day, others don't give a shit and push the biggest trailer they can. Additionally, it is used because people never know the exact weight of their trailer. so people use it as a &quot;rule of thumb&quot; to give themselves leeway when loading. I don't know, playing it safe, rather than sorry, seems like a good idea to me.

To demonstrate that this number is not some &quot;number I pulled from thin air&quot;
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=19374.0

http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26430250/gotomsg/26430620.cfm


See above, and that you have sunk to personal insults by comparing me to Modelexis tells a lot.





you posted more opinions.

you wanna talk about facts, ok fine. show me any owners manual that says that "so and so vehicle is rated to tow 10,000lbs but we only recommend that you tow up to 8,000 because we feel it is safer for you."

the modelexis comment may have been a little out of line :D

anyway, you do what you want, i'll do what i want.
everyone will live happy and post some pics of their trailers.

[spikerS]

I am just going to say one last thing, and it may be opinion, but it is a good opinion.

"Just because you CAN do something, does not mean that you should..."

[sxtasy]

"don't knock it until you've tried it" :rofl:
Anyways, I should add, since my insurance guy will read this thread, I never tow over capacity with my truck :D

back to rv's

[jonnycat]

I really like those kodiaks, I really wanted the 31' bunkhouse with slide, super slide and island kitchen but was too long 37' with hitch and way too much $$

[spikerS]

^^ Me too! I drooled over them at the R show. The new floor plans and such really are a step up, and more thought out, with practicality and common sense.

[Unknown303]

If you guys are so concerned about what you can actually tow why not write to your truck manufacturer and ask?

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Unknown303
If you guys are so concerned about what you can actually tow why not write to your truck manufacturer and ask?

Because then we wouldn't be able to argue opinions!

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Unknown303
If you guys are so concerned about what you can actually tow why not write to your truck manufacturer and ask?

That wasn't the argument. We know the manufacturers numbers. What everyone is claiming is a buffer zone that people can tow over their max amount as recommended by the manufacturer, but no one can say by how much, just that you will be fine.


Originally posted by Kavy


Because then we wouldn't be able to argue opinions!




:rofl:

[hedge]

Just to back up Spikers... I've RV'd for most of my life and the 80% of capacity has always been a rule of thumb. It's easier on the vehicle, is less white-knuckle to drive and it gives more flexibility when loading the trailer so you don't have to worry about every pound you add.

I believe those numbers are also best case so if you tow in the mountains a lot you may want to adjust down accordingly. Especially with a non-turbo gas engine as your power decreases with altitude.

GVWR and axle ratings although related are different beasts. Axle ratings are based on weight carrying capacity. GVW is the weight of the entire rig and is more a function of breaking capacity, not sure if it's been mentioned but some manufacturers also mention a maximum frontal area.

Be careful with the trailers that had 'lite' in the name or any such moniker, there's a reason they're light.

I wish the DOT/cops would actually pull over RV's (yes I use the term to include all recreation vehicles). I've seen some ridiculously overloaded units.

[spike98]

Originally posted by hedge
Be careful with the trailers that had 'lite' in the name or any such moniker, there's a reason they're light.

Not trying to be a dick, but why is that? My Minilite is 2900lbs dry and build very well. What does this moniker suggest to you?

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by spikers


That wasn't the argument. We know the manufacturers numbers. What everyone is claiming is a buffer zone that people can tow over their max amount as recommended by the manufacturer, but no one can say by how much, just that you will be fine.






:rofl:

Then call/write to Ford and ask. Then you'll get a definite answer and problem solved.

[hedge]

Originally posted by spike98


Not trying to be a dick, but why is that? My Minilite is 2900lbs dry and build very well. What does this moniker suggest to you?

It's not about build quality but they do have to make compromises to drop weight such as...

- lightweight frames that may be swiss cheesed, ok unless you ever want to pull it into the backcountry

- smaller tanks

- smaller hwt

- lighter axles with brakes only on 1 axle

- plastic toilets instead of porcelain

- particle board/ plastic foil cabinets instead of solid wood

-single pane windows

- less insulation


and so on. You usualy don't know what your missing unless you look at their non-light models.

I'm not saying their bad, just do your homework.

[hedge]

Originally posted by Unknown303


Then call/write to Ford and ask. Then you'll get a definite answer and problem solved.

there's no reason to call anyone, the sticker is write on your door jamb.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by hedge


there's no reason to call anyone, the sticker is write on your door jamb.

But apparently no one here is willing to believe that is the tow capacity of their truck.

[ExtraSlow]

Anyone who wants Fords opinion on the matter can consult the "Ford fleet towing guides" that are easily accessible, and show ratings for every possible powertrain combo.