Illegal rental suites

[msommers]

I've read on this board a few times that the city kind of turns a blind-eye to illegal suites because without them, a lot of people wouldn't have places to live. Now, I have also read that the city will only investigate if there are complaints, but what would this encompass? And if the suite was found to be illegal once the city has come over to investigate, what are the repercussions of that? If it's not zoned properly, is the suite downstairs basically useless? Is there a fine involved or something further?

Within the next few months, my Mom and I will be buying a house where hopefully there is a suite already setup downstairs and I'll live upstairs. However I just want to dot my I's, cross my T's and know what I'm getting myself into before bothering to look at some listings more closely.

[heavyfuel]

OMG am I reading this right? You wanna put your mom in an illegal suite? Holy sweet flying fuck please tell me I missed something.

Four simple words when it comes to secondary suites/income properties. PLAY BY THE RULES. If you're responsible enough to own a home one would think you're responsible enough to keep a secondary suite up to code.

ESPECIALLY if someone as important as your mother is living there.

[lint]

this happened to a friend of mine recently. Tenant fucked him over and reported the basement suite. If it's a non conforming suite you have to remove the stove and cover up the 220V, and then you have the option to make it conforming (pull permits, separate heating and electrical). If it's illegal, you're out of luck. I don't believe there is a fine the first time. If you just decide to uncover the 220V and move the stove back in and there's a subsequent call, you'l be fined.

[msommers]

No she is not living there lol. And obviously neither of us are the type to slap something together to try to make money off of it. But if worst came to worst I want to know what to expect from the city.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
OMG am I reading this right? You wanna put your mom in an illegal suite? Holy sweet flying fuck please tell me I missed something.

Four simple words when it comes to secondary suites/income properties. PLAY BY THE RULES. If you're responsible enough to own a home one would think you're responsible enough to keep a secondary suite up to code.

ESPECIALLY if someone as important as your mother is living there.

hey retard. a suite can be "to code" but if the lot isnt zone, or big enough its still "illegal"

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by ercchry


hey retard. a suite can be "to code" but if the lot isnt zone, or big enough its still "illegal"

That's Mr. Retard to you.

My sincerest apologies for not knowing all the ins and outs, but still aspiring to do things properly.

[lint]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
That's Mr. Retard to you

Can a mod make this his custom user title?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by lint


Can a mod make this his custom user title?

Calling him "Mr." would denote that we respect him and his opinions.

now the title "full retard" would be more fitting I believe.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by spikers


Calling him "Mr." would denote that we respect him and his opinions.

now the title "full retard" would be more fitting I believe.

I never accept anything less than 100%, so "Full" rather than "Mr." is indeed appropriate and I thank you for the suggestion.

[JustinMCS]

Originally posted by lint
this happened to a friend of mine recently. Tenant fucked him over and reported the basement suite. If it's a non conforming suite you have to remove the stove and cover up the 220V, and then you have the option to make it conforming (pull permits, separate heating and electrical). If it's illegal, you're out of luck. I don't believe there is a fine the first time. If you just decide to uncover the 220V and move the stove back in and there's a subsequent call, you'l be fined.

+1

have to keep in mind zoning may make it illegal

[msommers]

Originally posted by lint
this happened to a friend of mine recently. Tenant fucked him over and reported the basement suite. If it's a non conforming suite you have to remove the stove and cover up the 220V, and then you have the option to make it conforming (pull permits, separate heating and electrical). If it's illegal, you're out of luck. I don't believe there is a fine the first time. If you just decide to uncover the 220V and move the stove back in and there's a subsequent call, you'l be fined.

Thanks Lint. I'll have to look up the specific points on what it conforming or not, and to ensure it's in an appropriate zone. I know some places we've looked at have a kitchen and a separate entrance already which is what we want anyways. One thing I'm still unsure of is if rent includes all the utilities, does it still have to be separate from the basement?

[lint]

R2 zoned means it CAN be legal, but usually the costs of separating hvac/electrical makes it unprofitable, hence why most are non-conforming. You just need to come to an agreement for utilities. It's much easier to set a rent with utilities included, but then you can have tenants that abuse that (lights on all the time, heat cranked etc)

[ercchry]

You also need 50ft of frontage now

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by lint
R2 zoned means it CAN be legal, but usually the costs of separating hvac/electrical makes it unprofitable, hence why most are non-conforming. You just need to come to an agreement for utilities. It's much easier to set a rent with utilities included, but then you can have tenants that abuse that (lights on all the time, heat cranked etc)

But if basement is still virgin, you can get free $ (up to $40K I think) from City to make it a legal secondary suite.

Of course you have to keep renting it out for at least 5 years.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by lint
this happened to a friend of mine recently. Tenant fucked him over and reported the basement suite. If it's a non conforming suite you have to remove the stove and cover up the 220V, and then you have the option to make it conforming (pull permits, separate heating and electrical). If it's illegal, you're out of luck. I don't believe there is a fine the first time. If you just decide to uncover the 220V and move the stove back in and there's a subsequent call, you'l be fined. Yea you really hope they get along or else a lot of headaches.

[Weapon_R]

Usually, a warning for a first offense and then a fine for the next complaint thereafter.

Keep in mind that it's almost always a disgruntled tenant that makes the complaint. I wonder if it'll ever be an issue in your case.

[AndyL]

Originally posted by Xtrema


But if basement is still virgin, you can get free $ (up to $40K I think) from City to make it a legal secondary suite.

Of course you have to keep renting it out for at least 5 years.
except the city's own pilot program to encourage basement suites - failed miserably as nobody could navigate the red tape...

a legal basement suite - is a f*cking expensive proposition; you're probably over 100k to get it done to the current standards.

Doesn't make it unsafe - just insane to do legally.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by AndyL

except the city's own pilot program to encourage basement suites - failed miserably as nobody could navigate the red tape...

a legal basement suite - is a f*cking expensive proposition; you're probably over 100k to get it done to the current standards.

Doesn't make it unsafe - just insane to do legally.

Know a friend who did one in Royal Oak. For some reason, his home is zoned R2 by default.

$45K to get the basement done to city code for ~700 sq ft of living space. City paid $25K, he put up for the rest.

Not bad return at ~$800/month

EDIT: sorry, not $40K, the program will pay 70% of cost up to $25K.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Know a friend who did one in Royal Oak. For some reason, his home is zoned R2 by default.

$45K to get the basement done to city code for ~700 sq ft of living space. City paid $25K, he put up for the rest.

Not bad return at ~$800/month

EDIT: sorry, not $40K, the program will pay 70% of cost up to $25K.

Even on the hook for 20k that's 25 months to break even, and that's assuming you have no hiccups in the form of bad renters and the likes of which. I really fail to see how tying up 20+ grand for over 2 years and hope to not incur added expenses along the way, makes any sense at all. I honestly don't get how that makes even the slightest little bit of sense.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


Even on the hook for 20k that's 25 months to break even, and that's assuming you have no hiccups in the form of bad renters and the likes of which. I really fail to see how tying up 20+ grand for over 2 years and hope to not incur added expenses along the way, makes any sense at all. I honestly don't get how that makes even the slightest little bit of sense.

dont you worry your head about it, we will always need people like you to make money off of :thumbsup:

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by ercchry


dont you worry your head about it, we will always need people like you to make money off of :thumbsup:

Oh thanks for your concern, but I'm not worried. Chances of me getting a bad tenant? Slim to none. Non existent to be precise. Chances of you getting a bad tenant? Exponentially superior to mine. And with the attitude you have towards renters, it's only a matter of time before YOU will need someone like me. And hopefully every trade under the sun.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


Even on the hook for 20k that's 25 months to break even, and that's assuming you have no hiccups in the form of bad renters and the likes of which. I really fail to see how tying up 20+ grand for over 2 years and hope to not incur added expenses along the way, makes any sense at all. I honestly don't get how that makes even the slightest little bit of sense.

It's called equity. You put $45K in, your property's value also rise by $45K, may be even more since it's a legal secondary suite with higher income potential.

You just got free money from the City. All city ask for is that you keep renting that place for 5 years and you pay more property tax since your place is now worth more.


Even when using your over simiplied, don't care about equity ROI formula:

$20K gets $800/mth = 25 months

$280K townhouse gets $1300/mth = 215 months


Legal secondary suite is great investment if you can deal with 2 tenants within 1 property.

And from the city's point of view, more tax revenue and less spending in infrastructure means that $25K investment should be paid back some time in the future.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


Oh thanks for your concern, but I'm not worried. Chances of me getting a bad tenant? Slim to none. Non existent to be precise. Chances of you getting a bad tenant? Exponentially superior to mine. And with the attitude you have towards renters, it's only a matter of time before YOU will need someone like me. And hopefully every trade under the sun.

i treat MY tenants great, you dont have a clue! but that shines through in basically all your posts

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by ercchry

but that shines through in basically all your posts

Much akin to your flagrant cockiness about living off of those who can't buy. You wanna strut around like a peacock, sooner or later a hawk will have had enough.

[msommers]

If you two homos would take your bickering to PM that'd be great. Cheers!

[ercchry]

Hey matt, welcome to beyond