Think having a lot of work is a good thing?

[C_Dave45]

Fuck me....too much work with not enough skilled labour is almost worse than no work at all!!


I've turned away probably $20,000 of work in the past two weeks because I just can't get to them.
I've got a running ad in Kijiji looking for journeymen and this is how it's gone:

1st guy: We meet, he helps load the house with material and says: "yeah I'd love to work for you...see you tomorrow". Never came back, no phone call, wouldn't answer texts or voicemail....left me hanging. I found out he ended up working for another company.

2nd guy: "yeah I'm looking for work, I'm a great tile setter...I'll come by tomorrow" - Never showed up.

3rd guy: Shows up. Works for a day, not bad work, not great...then "yeah, hate to do this to you but I'm just too busy myself". WHY THE FUCK ANSWER MY ADD THEN????

4th guy: emails me with "I have my own truck,tools and equipment to do the job.commercial and residential.i can meet deadline as well as expectations of quality." I phone him offer him $40/hr. "yeah, that's not really enough". So I offer him piece work that would pay him almost $500 per day: "yeahhhh....sorry, that's pretty low" ALL HE HAS TO DO IS SHOW UP AND LAY TILE, FER FUCK SAKES!!!!! :banghead:

5th guy: Shows up, we meet...says what a great setter he is. Wants $35/hour and paid end of each week. We'll see if he shows up or how good he is.

Fuck me. :banghead:

[woodywoodford]

That's my biggest fear about taking over the family farm - if I want to grow I need to hire help, and don't know a single person I'd trust to do that other than guys from dad's generation. Brutal.

[spikerS]

Almost willing to lend you a hand. But then again, I know sweet fuck all about tiling.

[Black Gts]

Its nutty out right now, I havent been looking for work personally, but I deal with alot of framers nobody can keep guys. The guys you find all want premium dollars, it really reminds me mid 2000's when I was an asshole and could quit a job and get a raise somewhere else after lunch. The good news for you is either that everyone else is that busy so the work isn't going anywhere, or the people available will do such a shitty job you can redo it in 5 years. Almost recession proof haha.

[revelations]

This is why I wont probably ever grow past a one person company. I make a living fixing other peoples mistakes already, so I dont need to add to my pile.

[englishbob]

Been like that for me since I started in 97.
Out of every 10 I can actually get to show up for an interview most that show is normally around 2 and my work requires no skill or education.
Just imagine how it will be in 15 or so years when all of us old hardworking guys with morals are retired or dead.

[revelations]

You almost need a pool of people willing to work, who have a "rating" of sorts - haha.

(eg wont show up to work -1 point)

[DeleriousZ]

damn I must be in the wrong industry lol.

[Rat Fink]

.

[AndyL]

Dont get me started... I've been eyeballing and wrapping my head around adding some help lately... no fuxing clue how I'm going to deal with it...

Good luck!

[cam_wmh]

Have you guys -- not joking; considered going to one of the high schools; earlier in the year, to poach graduates from the trades classes & get them started on their journeyman?:dunno:

[kaput]

.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by revelations
You almost need a pool of people willing to work, who have a "rating" of sorts - haha.

(eg wont show up to work -1 point)
Like a beyond user rating, but universal?
Pretty sure a lot of people would end up in the negatives

[revelations]

Originally posted by jwslam

Like a beyond user rating, but universal?
Pretty sure a lot of people would end up in the negatives

Yea thats the idea, you would just pick a person who is -25 instead of a person who is -176 .... lol

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by cam_wmh
Have you guys -- not joking; considered going to one of the high schools; earlier in the year, to poach graduates from the trades classes & get them started on their journeyman?:dunno:

*ding*

The answer is that you need to take it upon yourself to train these people.

One of the most maddening things about the modern working environment is companies not wanting to train people. Get a kid in the RAP program, start him off at $20/h, train him for however long is necessary, and let him buck.

Treat them like gold, and they'll be loyal hard workers. Win-win.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by woodywoodford
That's my biggest fear about taking over the family farm - if I want to grow I need to hire help, and don't know a single person I'd trust to do that other than guys from dad's generation. Brutal.

Wow really? hahaha. Im on the exact same boat. Getting too big for a 1 or two man operation, so we need people.

Thank god I met a guy at my last job that I can't wait to hire...
he has his class 1 too, so its a HUGE bonus.


but yeah, its hard to find good help... when you do, they want a premium.




DAVE: sorry for your luck man... I would have been happy to help out, at least for a week. I wish you would have PM'ed me. :(

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by cam_wmh
Have you guys -- not joking; considered going to one of the high schools; earlier in the year, to poach graduates from the trades classes & get them started on their journeyman?:dunno:

Actually, SIAST here runs a Trade program that sets people up with basic skills in paint/floor/drywall/a couple other things. Some are younger, some older, some on parole haha, and some just new immigrants.

They give you a guy for a week (and they only send out the top performers usually) for you to demo basically and THEY pay him, it's part of his program. After the week you can keep him or send him back. It's worked ok for us, we came up with a great floor guy from it. The nice thing is our lead man can train him the way HE wants him to do things and if you have a skilled hand to start with, it's pretty easy to make him productive quickly.

We've had a couple duds too but they were still great free labour for a week.

I wonder if anything like that is in Calgary Dave?

[ercchry]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE



I wonder if anything like that is in Calgary Dave?

there is... but its more so just life long failures... use to work for a company that would use them, most of them would be okay for about a month. then next thing you know they get paid, steal a company van. go pick up a hooker and an 8 ball and you get a call from the cops a week later saying they found the van :rofl:

i THINK they were from "the dream centre"

[JfuckinC]

I just started my own company 2 months ago, and I'm terrified of hiring someone i don't know. You never know what you're going to get!

Especially with Drafters lol... So many are so full of shit. :banghead:

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by ercchry


there is... but its more so just life long failures... use to work for a company that would use them, most of them would be okay for about a month. then next thing you know they get paid, steal a company van. go pick up a hooker and an 8 ball and you get a call from the cops a week later saying they found the van :rofl:

i THINK they were from "the dream centre"

Yeah, the Dream center is an addictive recovery center... so that doesn't surprise me in the least. Sometimes you see some good people that have fallen on hard times and have resorted to drug & alcohol abuse that go through that program, but its largely just garbage that comes through there... I'd have MUCH difficulty bringing myself to hiring anybody through that program. :nut:

Its seriously a gamble. On one side, sure you can be the knight in shinning armor that people need to recover, and then they'll end up with you forever, as at that point they'll be hard working loyal employees that'll do anything for you, but thats about 15% of the time. Most times its people that wander back and forth with drug abuse, which creates all sorts of issues.
To me thats a tough to justify proposition unless you run an operation akin to McDonalds or some retarded warehouse operation, where people can be trained and/or replaced in just a few hours.

[Go4Long]

I'd be all about laying tile if I knew which way was up with tiles :P

[M.alex]

I've never laid tile before but I'm willing to try for $800/day. Interested?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


*ding*

The answer is that you need to take it upon yourself to train these people.

One of the most maddening things about the modern working environment is companies not wanting to train people. Get a kid in the RAP program, start him off at $20/h, train him for however long is necessary, and let him buck.

Treat them like gold, and they'll be loyal hard workers. Win-win.

Unfortunately the reality is, if you find a kid who's willing to learn and train him..within a year they think they know it all and leave to go off and start their own company thinking they can make 3x times what you're paying them. (even if it's a great wage).

No, the ideal guy I'm looking for is an experienced journeyman, who's sick of all the "business bullshit" and just wants to happily come to work, take his time, do great work, and get his guaranteed days wage. No hassle, no BS, no dealing with slowdowns, etc.

All the new young "hotshot" tile guys want to come to work with a 1,000 feet in front of them to blast down at record speeds and get top dollar per foot. High end residential just doesn't work that way. The minute you say, "k lets pack in these bags and clean up that area.." they start to whine cuz their not raking in the bucks.


Originally posted by Graham_A_M

DAVE: sorry for your luck man... I would have been happy to help out, at least for a week. I wish you would have PM'ed me. :(

I appreciate the offer. If I had a bunch of pickups, deliveries, packing in, etc to do, I could've used some help. But My houses are one day packing in tile, and then I'm doing intricate work. Even a helper can't keep busy. Unless I had 4 journeymen working, there's not much for a "beginner" to do.

[max_boost]

And people wonder why foreign workers are so popular?

I got sick of dealing with bs drama too. Hey let's face it, $11/hour ain't glamorous to work in a Chinese restaurant. But I tell you, these foreign workers coming from Asia, this is a blessing for them. They go from working 10hours a day for 30 days straight and making anywhere from $60CAD to $600CAD a month to working 8 hours a day to 20 days a month making $1800 lol hallelujah man. No drama, no bs, show up to work and work is work.

I had an argument with a buddy the other day and it is what it is. I know your trade is highly specialized but perhaps it's something you can look into, Dave. :D

[englishbob]

Some of the best tile work I've ever seen is in Mexico and there's lots of them here looking for an honest days work.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


Unfortunately the reality is, if you find a kid who's willing to learn and train him..within a year they think they know it all and leave to go off and start their own company thinking they can make 3x times what you're paying them. (even if it's a great wage).



You forgot to mention that when they leave they take all of your tools.

Why don't you increase your rate by 20-30% that's what we did when we couldn't keep up with the work load, you're swamped anyways, so who cares if people turn you down and if they don't then it's really worth it.

We'd usually start advertising heavily for the summer around January, by end of feb/mid march we'd be damn near fully booked so we'd increase our rate by a huge amount.

[bourge73]

Dave, you my man need to get yourself some FOB's and ASAP!

[woodywoodford]

Originally posted by englishbob
Some of the best tile work I've ever seen is in Mexico and there's lots of them here looking for an honest days work.
Mexican mennonites are fantastic workers...some of the only ones we've hired onto the farm actually, that stick around and don't take shortcuts i mean

[heavyfuel]

Hahaha know the feeling all too well. Been turning down jobs that I can't do on my own, left and right, I refuse to hire street laborers for cash because well, we go into people's homes and such, and I've been thru like 6 temp agencies, just can't win lol

[BMDUBS]

This issue is a big problem in my field too, which is large Sports/Commercial Irrigation. Problem is we are not a recognized trade so it makes it even harder to attract the right guys. Also being somewhat seasonal doesn't help.

I feel your pain Dave...

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by woodywoodford

Mexican mennonites are fantastic workers...some of the only ones we've hired onto the farm actually, that stick around and don't take shortcuts i mean

Some of them are, we have a few at a farm a short ways from ours, and they can be hit & miss too...

There has been an increase in thefts from nearby farms, and guess who was found to be responsible?

Mennonites are generally a good bet... they're hard working folk to be sure, but I'd keep the search within Canada.

Dave, if you're interested in hiring any, let me know. There are a few Mennonite colony's near Swift Current that I can ask, Im sure you'd find a good bunch of them that are exactly what you're after.


Originally posted by heavyfuel
Hahaha know the feeling all too well. Been turning down jobs that I can't do on my own, left and right, I refuse to hire street laborers for cash because well, we go into people's homes and such, and I've been thru like 6 temp agencies, just can't win lol

Most temp agencies are shit... but you should try IS2 staffing if you haven't already, we had lots of temps through them at various places I've worked over the years, and for the most part they have noticeably decent staff to be sure. We've hired a lot of them on directly, since they were very good people that were smart and knew how to work.
Way back when we had that recession of 2008, I had to go through IS2 myself (just because there was NO work available, it was fucking brutally slow across the board), and a lot of their opportunities are worthwhile, as are quite a few of the people that go through them.
:thumbsup:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


Unfortunately the reality is, if you find a kid who's willing to learn and train him..within a year they think they know it all and leave to go off and start their own company thinking they can make 3x times what you're paying them. (even if it's a great wage).


I guess that may be the case, I completely understand. Building my parents acreage was a nightmare over the past year, by far the worst quality/most money we've had to pay trades on the nicest house we've built so far :nut:

I hate the attitude this province has sometimes, especially when it comes to jobs.

[asp integra]

Sounds about right. Atleast it seems there are some people out there that can work for you.

try running a business where you manufacture western boots by hand. There is literally no one anymore who does that kind of work. We have been looking for years to find people with experience and to this day have not found a single person suitable for the job :banghead:

[403Gemini]

Calgary is a BRUTAL market for finding tradesmen / laborers. People will leave for 0.25 more an hour and not give a shit about company loyalty.

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by kaput


http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon

LOL, yeah punctuation is definitely one of my flaws.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
Calgary is a BRUTAL market for finding tradesmen / laborers. People will leave for 0.25 more an hour and not give a shit about company loyalty.

Why should they? When the economy has taken a dump previously they get laid off at the first sign of the business losing money. Two way street.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


Why should they? When the economy has taken a dump previously they get laid off at the first sign of the business losing money. Two way street.

First people to get laid off are the people who just jumped on board with the company, they're less likely to lay off a person who's been there for 5+ years vs a person hired 6 months ago (performance pending of course)

[Marsh]

Originally posted by max_boost
And people wonder why foreign workers are so popular?

I got sick of dealing with bs drama too. Hey let's face it, $11/hour ain't glamorous to work in a Chinese restaurant. But I tell you, these foreign workers coming from Asia, this is a blessing for them. They go from working 10hours a day for 30 days straight and making anywhere from $60CAD to $600CAD a month to working 8 hours a day to 20 days a month making $1800 lol hallelujah man. No drama, no bs, show up to work and work is work.

I had an argument with a buddy the other day and it is what it is. I know your trade is highly specialized but perhaps it's something you can look into, Dave. :D

I agree 100% for the restaurant biz..I really hope the government doesn't clamp down on foreign workers...No clue what I'd do without them

[suntan]

I... am... job...

[topsecret]

All the guys talking about foreign workers are hitting the nail on the head, everyone that has grown up here thinks they're entitled to something, like you as the employer owe them for coming to work for you, foreign workers come here, get the job done and have a GREAT attitude about it! Here is a site one of my customers referred to me, I haven't had to contact them yet, but he has had nothing but good things to say about it! Good luck on your search!!

http://www.globalhire.ca/companyreference.htm