Any recommended deep cycle ultra high CCA batteries?

[Graham_A_M]

Hey guys, I did a beyond search, and didn't find anything relevant, so here it goes.

Long story short, one of our trucks has a big block Chevy in it, yet it came with a wee little 7" tall X 7" deep x 9.5" wide battery, basically exactly what you'd find in a typical car or light truck.

Unfortunately it doesn't have nearly the CCA ouput needed to turn over that big engine. Nothing is worse then being out in the field with it, and having it just BARELY start sometimes... as its a LONG walk home if it can't. We've tried quite a few lead acid batteries, everything from the AC Delco ones, to the Kirkland ones, and just about everything in between, they all have much the same problem with only a slight variance between them. So I assume lead-acid is far from the way to go at this point.

Im not too familiar with aftermarket batteries in all reality, as its not something I deal with, well ever really. (Hence this thread)

I seriously dont have the time to build a whole new battery tray to accommodate a much bigger battery, as that would take the better part of a day, which I really can't spare at the moment.

Are there any super deep cycle batteries that still put out almost the CCA output even when its partially run down, as it would when its fully charged? Im not entirely sure what the CCA would need to be at least, but I'd presume around 800CCA at least.

Optima makes decent batteries I've been told, but I've also heard a fair bit of stories that they'll only last any where from a year, to three at the absolute most.

so coles notes would be:

-Need a battery that puts out very high CCA for its size
-Long lasting, very long actually
-No bigger, or at least not much bigger then the dimensions listed, anything bigger would require battery tray additions/modifications.
-Side (screw in) battery posts.
-Available in Calgary
-Not absurdly expensive, $250 or less if possible

Thanks guys, A HUGE vote of thanks for your time in reading this and offering any suggestions you can.

[revelations]

I'd try rigging another battery in parallell ..... those engine bays should have a ton of space.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Why a deep cycle? They're designed for long-term draw and being run down to bare-minumum charge and as a result have low CCA. A standard vehicle battery is designed for high short-term draws and high CCA.

Big-block Chevy or otherwise, it shouldn't take a gigantic battery to turn it over. Have you had the starter tested?

[firebane]

You didn't state the year of your truck but my 98 Chevy comes with the means for a dual battery setup. You have to run a bit of wiring for it but its there.

Also look into a high output altenator or at least get yours checked to make sure its charging properly.

How are your grounds and such?

Big blocks shouldn't make a difference to start unless it has some crazy compression which makes it harder to turn over.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
Why a deep cycle? They're designed for long-term draw and being run down to bare-minumum charge and as a result have low CCA. A standard vehicle battery is designed for high short-term draws and high CCA.

Big-block Chevy or otherwise, it shouldn't take a gigantic battery to turn it over. Have you had the starter tested?

We have two trucks, same year, same everything. 1978 Chevy C65's (3 ton grain trucks) with the 366cu Big block. It was GMs smallest ever big block they built. Both have the exact same issues, alt's are fine, both starters are fine, same with the connections. Its just the batteries dont have enough giddy up to start it, leave alone with their finicky when their cold (both are carbed obviously).

[ercchry]

http://www.optimabatteries.com/us/en/

[MrSector9]

Look into getting a high torque starter (if not already on there) for it, older dodges were also bad for this.

like this

http://www.amazon.com/STAGGERED-STARTER-323-1701-336-1903-323-1068/dp/B00470C5HU

[Graham_A_M]

^Sweet, thanks man.... I owe you at least a few brewskies for that. The AC Delco starters are about three times that.

[gamman]

Agm. Absorbed glass Matt. Does it need to be year round?

[Graham_A_M]

^No, not really. Summer use only pretty much.

I've never heard of Absorbed glass matt,

[M.alex]

Use an AGM battery like an optima. It proves all the cranking amps up front, whereas a lead-acid doesn't.

For example, I can't turn over my 408w with a lead acid group 51 battery (450cca), but with an optima group 51 (same ccas), it fires right up with no issues because it has the full amount available right off the bat.

[rx7_turbo2]

Lots of Optima failures since they dropped their quality a few years back. Odyssey is the only high end battery I even consider anymore.

[Graham_A_M]

^Thanks M.Alex, and thanks "RX7_turbo2" I'll start looking for Odyssey batteries then.

Yeah Im pretty on the fence with Optima, I've seen as many people happy with them as I have people complaining about catastrophic failures, so I was looking for something else entirely.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^Thanks M.Alex, and thanks "RX7_turbo2" I'll start looking for Odyssey batteries then.

Yeah Im pretty on the fence with Optima, I've seen as many people happy with them as I have people complaining about catastrophic failures, so I was looking for something else entirely. Back in the day Optima was the battery to have. Somewhere along the line they put a push on to get their batteries in Walmart and Costco, in order to get the prices down to where Costco and Walmart wanted them, Optima cut the quality of their product. They've been garbage ever since.

Odyssey Batteries have an insane warranty, they are the best hands down, but they have the price to match hahaha.

[gpomp]

I bought a Northstar battery for my Civic for around $300. The one I got is 880 CCA. If you go to A n D, they should be able to find something that works for you. They sell Odyssey as well.

[IggyB]

Originally posted by gpomp
I bought a Northstar battery for my Civic for around $300. The one I got is 880 CCA. If you go to A n D, they should be able to find something that works for you. They sell Odyssey as well.

One more for the above. Bought 2 Northstars at AnD 8 months ago.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/IggyBIggyB/Battery/004_zps6eb17b26.jpg (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/IggyBIggyB/media/Battery/004_zps6eb17b26.jpg.html)

[firebane]

Not sure why everyone is so keen on CCA for. CCA is more for when its cold outside hence the "Cold Cranking Amps".

They said this truck was used mostly in the summer so CCA doesn't really apply.

[Tarrantula]

ODDESSY BATTERY - A N D BATTERIES CALGARY

These are the BEST batteries you can get for deep cycle, high CCA's for the size.

Used the 1500 for my Civic with two 1501D MTX amps (0/1 awg wiring with 250A fuses)

Never ever ever had a problem, this battery would start my car after 3 months of sitting in winter when my dads truck wouldnt start.

(Imagine someone pushing a 300z [no grip, winter] to boost a f-150, we got lots of odd stares)

EDIT: Firebane, CCA is important year round. Its just a measure of how fast the battery can deliver current. Its probably the most important part of a battery next to cell type.

[Alak]

ODYSSEY And Northstar batteries are exactly the same. Call AnD for an explanation, and they will recommend the Northstars at a cheaper price than the Odyssey.

You should be able to retrofit an Odyssey 2150 to fit. Im sure Northstar makes a 2150. 2150 Amps is probably more than you would ever use. Hell 1500 amps is a heck of alot.

By comparison, a truck with a 15L Diesel has four 900 amp batteries. Some of the newer style have 3 yellow top optimas (big bastards).

I think a 1500 would be good enough. 2150 would be more than enough.

[Graham_A_M]

^Sweet, thanks guys. Im going to stock up on two of them when I'm back in the 403 tomorrow. I'll give them a call for sure. Thanks a ton on the tips on Odyssey & Northstar, I'll check into both and grab a couple.

To Firebane, Im just using the typical power output rating, I know it'll never be used in the cold, but CCA seems to be a much more commonly used then just CA.



Yeah, if 1500CA can't start that engine, we got serious problems hahaha. No I think anything above 900 should be more then sufficient.

[OptimaJim]

rx7_turbo2's claims about a decline in quality of Optima batteries or any compromises made to our product for the sake of retail space are absolutely false. In fact, we have declined requests from retailers who have asked to re-brand our batteries for their stores because when you compromise your product in that regard, you open yourself up to compromises in other areas. We never re-brand or re-spec our batteries for any of our retail partners and the quality of our products has never been better.

The key to long battery life, regardless of brand or manufacturer, is proper voltage maintenance. Whenever any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts, sulfation begins to form in the battery, which diminishes capacity and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment for any vehicle that doesn't see regular use.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by OptimaJim
In fact, we have declined requests from retailers who have asked to re-brand our batteries for their stores because when you compromise your product in that regard, you open yourself up to compromises in other areas.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

Wat.

I read this as "We wont rebrand so people dont shit on our other brands also"

Just sayin.. :dunno:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by OptimaJim
rx7_turbo2's claims about a decline in quality of Optima batteries or any compromises made to our product for the sake of retail space are absolutely false. In fact, we have declined requests from retailers who have asked to re-brand our batteries for their stores because when you compromise your product in that regard, you open yourself up to compromises in other areas. We never re-brand or re-spec our batteries for any of our retail partners and the quality of our products has never been better.

The key to long battery life, regardless of brand or manufacturer, is proper voltage maintenance. Whenever any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts, sulfation begins to form in the battery, which diminishes capacity and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment for any vehicle that doesn't see regular use.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

The information I posted regarding Optima Batteries was info I had heard from retaliers. No less than three. I noticed also Optima Batteries were no longer for sale at my local Costco and inquired why. A representative at the same Costco advised me that they had far to many returns of the product and dropped it.

Again this info is obviously second hand, but fit with the fact my own experience with several Optima Batteries had declined over the same time period.

Anybody else find it interesting an Optima Rep found this thread? Almost like maybe its someones only job to search the Internet and save what is a clearly declining reputation?

I have no affiliation with any battery manufacturer whatsoever. Just a guy that's had a bunch over the years. The early Optima's were good. Then I, and others I know started to have issues with them. Since then ive switched to Odyssey and have had zero issues. If its me? I go see
A N D and buy an Odyssey, and avoid Optima at all cost. But that's just my opinion so...

[ercchry]

why does a battery company have a pinterest account? :rofl:

going after that bored housewife demographic?

[OptimaJim]

Tarrantula, first a retailer may ask you to change the name on your product (often to their store brand). Once you give in on that, then they may ask you to make other concessions to lower the price and often as a result, the quality. We don't compromise on our products for anyone and we'd rather give up shelf space in a store than put a compromised product on the shelves.

rx7_turbo2, just so there isn't any confusion on the subject- it is my job to participate in online forums. We print our 800 number and e-mail address on every battery we sell, but we understand some consumers still prefer to seek the advice of others in a given community, rather than going to the source. We've also found that there is a tremendous amount of false and sometimes dangerous information being posted on message boards. For a long time, we took the same approach many other companies still take- ignore the online chatter. We don't anymore.

There are a lot of reasons why retailers choose to carry a given product (or which retailers manufacturers choose to do business with) and the vast majority of the reasons cited by employees at the retail level turn out not to be accurate. While I understand individual experiences can vary, what we see as a company in terms of warranty returns is that the majority of the “bad” batteries being sent back to us now are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged.

We've launched a lot of different initiatives to address this issue and my presence on forums is part of those efforts. This is not unique to Optima, in fact, other battery brands have simply added exclusions in their warranties for batteries discharged below a minimum voltage level. We didn't do that with our warranty, but we did create YouTube videos, explaining how to recover deeply-discharged batteries, we do online and in-person programs with our retail partners and we are now the title sponsor of the ChumpCar World Series. Why ChumpCar? Because we'd rather give those discharge-only warranty returns a second life, than send perfectly-good batteries to the smelter.

ercchry, it's funny you should ask that question about Pinterest. Four years ago, someone on another forum asked me why a battery company would need a Facebook page. The question may not be why we are on Pinterest, but if there are really more than 5,000 bored housewives who want to follow a battery company on Pinterest? You can pin just about anything you want on Pinterest. We even pin on a board that is dedicated to Ford Mustangs- http://pinterest.com/coolfords/ford-mustang/ We're not alone either. Here's a list of more than 100 automotive brands and companies on Pinterest- http://www.optimabatteries.com/us/en/experience/power-source/brands-and-companies-pinterest-automotive-aftermarket/

Scott Monty heads up social media for Ford Motor Company and wrote a rather long blog on Pinterest- http://www.scottmonty.com/2012/02/some-perspectives-on-pinterest.html

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

[Graham_A_M]

^ Thats "Jim" but I'll pass on anything Optima, no point on you continuing in this thread.
:thumbsup:

[Cos]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

What I got from "Jim's" post.

- Optima Batteries recognized in recent years their reputation online had gone to shit. Instead of looking for the reason or issue internally they decided the problem was that the consumer is stupid and cant work a battery, so they hired Jim to educate the online peons.

I have no interest in a pissing match with a Rep from Optima. I'm a dumb Internet shlub. All I know is a I treat my Odyssey Batteries the same way I did my Optima Batteries, and I've never had an Odyssey fail, but I've dropped a few toast Optimas off at the depot. That is enough anecdotal evidence for this dumb consumer. Everything I've said is strictly my opinion I have no allegiance to any manufacturer. Corporations think having a guy like "Jim" is beneficial, when as this thread has shown his online presence has the opposite affect.

[Graham_A_M]

^ LOL.

I stopped by A n D batteries yesterday and picked up an Odyssey. Its that AGM technology, and it wont spill, ever, so you can position it on its side if need be, which is really cool.

I originally wanted the Northstar as its cheaper, and really just the same battery, but they only had ones that had the top terminals, and it would be at least a month to 6 weeks before they get their next shipment of Northstar batteries. (I need one with the side/screw in posts)

So they gave me the Odyssey for the same price as the Northstar. They discounted the Odyssey from $335 down to $300, which was the Northstar price.

That was really cool. Seems like a great place, and I'll be sure to return. They were quite helpful.
:thumbsup:

Im really quite impressed with the specs on these AGM batteries. 1500ca for the first 5 seconds, (which is absurdly high for a battery this size) then 880 there after.
:D

Their pricey, but I think I'll be sticking to Northstar & Odyssey for all my future car/truck batteries from this point on.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Maxt]

I haven't had any luck with newer style batteries in older vehicles, the alternator voltage isnt high enough to fully charge them, the exception being the Lithium's, those batteries dont demand such high charging voltages.

[Cos]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

We've run lithium batteries on motorcycles without a whole lot of luck.

They seem to work for a given period of time and then for no apparent reason go dead.

Every person I know who ran a lithium battery on their motorcycle and had it fail, had it fail in the same way. Worked perfect 10 seconds earlier, now? Nothing, stone cold dead not even an attempt to crank. Not a problem if the bike has a kicker but......... It makes me a bit apprehensive to stick one in the car.

[Graham_A_M]

The alt voltage is just under 15 volts, I think one one of them it was 14.8 on one, 14.5 on the other. The alts are fine, they put out enough amps and they do their job fine.

The problem is, is that both trucks are carb'ed. So if they haven't been running for a while, sometimes you have to crank them over for 10 seconds, while working the choke & the gas until they fire up. You can just hear the batteries giving a significantly smaller output the longer you go, as the starter motor slows right down, and the window quickly closes of whether they'll have enough power to keep going, if you have to keep turning it over. When you first turn the key, its fine as the batteries have lots of jam, but in next to no time after that, thats when they start to tank.

The cables are fine, I think their 2 gauge, so are the connections (etc). Its just, these typical lead-acid batteries just dont have the jam to supply the starter for these big carb'ed engines. If it was EFI, wow that would be amazing as I'd never have this issue, but unfortunately they aren't. So after a few seconds, the batteries run down to the point where they'll barely BARELY start the engine.

I'll install this battery when I head back there in a few days, and see what happens. I'll update this thread if its cured the problem, or if not, what else needs to be looked at.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Rat Fink]

.

[IggyB]

In defense of Optima......

I've had a Red Top in my truck for 7 years and replaced it based on the time elapsed, not any problems with battery. It was shaken off road and started every time.

Why did I not go with another Optima you ask?

Too many posts about them failing and sales people blaming the charging systems, not the battery. Too many people can't seem to get a replacement battery when it fails and being told that due to "charging system problem" there's no recourse to get a replacement. I have no desire to send a battery away, I want another one at point of sale. What should I use when it's at the manufacturer's? Manual crank start?

If my current Northstars fail prematurely with what I consider normal usage, that will be the time to buy something else and leave Northstar forever.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
The alt voltage is just under 15 volts, I think one one of them it was 14.8 on one, 14.5 on the other. The alts are fine, they put out enough amps and they do their job fine.

The problem is, is that both trucks are carb'ed. So if they haven't been running for a while, sometimes you have to crank them over for 10 seconds, while working the choke & the gas until they fire up. You can just hear the batteries giving a significantly smaller output the longer you go, as the starter motor slows right down, and the window quickly closes of whether they'll have enough power to keep going, if you have to keep turning it over. When you first turn the key, its fine as the batteries have lots of jam, but in next to no time after that, thats when they start to tank.

The cables are fine, I think their 2 gauge, so are the connections (etc). Its just, these typical lead-acid batteries just dont have the jam to supply the starter for these big carb'ed engines. If it was EFI, wow that would be amazing as I'd never have this issue, but unfortunately they aren't. So after a few seconds, the batteries run down to the point where they'll barely BARELY start the engine.

I'll install this battery when I head back there in a few days, and see what happens. I'll update this thread if its cured the problem, or if not, what else needs to be looked at.

That is probably on the high side for conventional batteries for long term applied voltage, wonder if that is damaging your batteries. I tested my older truck running and its 13.6 volts,



Originally posted by Rat Fink
I still don't buy it. The load on a proper starting system for your truck should only be around 200A. Your truck has minimal electrics to power as well. The 360 in my Dodge can crank for well over 60 seconds without draining my 850cca lead acid battery. My truck is carb'd too, and I find I have to crank like you have to crank yours if it's been sitting long enough and it will not miss a beat for the entire time cranking. I could take a vid if you wanted. It's not like a 366 would be some kind of extreme beast that is any different. I've never seen a big block run anything other than a lead-acid battery. I've had friends with some pretty high compression big blocks (bigger than your 366) that have never needed 1500 cca.


My truck is a carbed 440 and lives year round without needing any kind of super huge battery.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
I still don't buy it. The load on a proper starting system for your truck should only be around 200A. Your truck has minimal electrics to power as well. The 360 in my Dodge can crank for well over 60 seconds without draining my 850cca lead acid battery. My truck is carb'd too, and I find I have to crank like you have to crank yours if it's been sitting long enough and it will not miss a beat for the entire time cranking. I could take a vid if you wanted. It's not like a 366 would be some kind of extreme beast that is any different. I've never seen a big block run anything other than a lead-acid battery. I've had friends with some pretty high compression big blocks (bigger than your 366) that have never needed 1500 cca.

By clean connections, you've cleaned the battery cable connections, the positive starter connection, corrosion buildup between the starter motor and engine block, the negative cable connection where it attaches to the block, and made sure there is no internal corrosion in the cables themselves?

If you run into problems, then do a voltage drop test. It's a 5 minute test that will tell you everything you need to know. I understand most people hate multimeters and would rather take the "parts 'til she starts" route but it will save money. You could very well have resistance somewhere either on the power or ground side. The more you crank, the more heat is generated in that problem area (since resistance in a circuit acts like a second load) which in turn increases resistance until it falls on its face. Even corrosion between the starter motor and engine block which is part of the ground pathway in a healthy system will act like a second load and rob power from the starter motor. Being that your trucks are 35 years old that could very well be the case.

Interesting. Okay, I'll do that load test. I dont hate multimeters at all, their amazingly handy for diagnosing problems. A 5 minute test would have just saved me the $300+, so I'll see whats going on, then possibly if it isn't the battery, I'll either take it back or use it on something else.

Thanks, once again Im in your debt. :thumbsup:

[Graham_A_M]

So I installed the Odyssey, and it now starts like it should. Almost as good as EFI, it fires up no problems at all when its warm.

I haven't had to wait a week before starting it to see how it would react to a lengthy current draw, as we use it everyday as a grain truck, but so far its been amazing.

Absolutely no slowing down with the starter at all due to a lack of voltage/amps.

So far, huge props to Odyssey, $300 well spent. :thumbsup:

[BerserkerCatSplat]

What battery were you using before the Oddysey?

[Graham_A_M]

Smaller Kirkland (Costco) battery. We used a bunch of that size, and all had the same issues with them. This Odyssey one is a bit bigger then the last few, but not by much. I should take a pic for comparison purposes.