Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

[nzwasp]

Im just about to start TRT has anyone had here had experience with that and how did it affect your fitness?

Im 33.

[rob the knob]

how low did you test?

did you have symptoms to make you ask to be tested?

[Darkane]

Yeah. Give some more background. I'm pretty versed in TRT. I'm going to be starting After a couple kids (3-5 years from now) but been low for 6+ years since 25.

[Tej.S]

Also, what exactly do you mean by "how did it affect your fitness"? I know a handful of older guys(36 and older) who are currently doing TRT/HRT. Also, are you doing TRT solely based on your age/test levels or because you've used aas in the past?

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by rob the knob
how low did you test?

did you have symptoms to make you ask to be tested?

I have a syndrome which means at some point my balls gave up making testosterone Im thinking this happened sometime in the last 5 years. I have pretty much all the symptoms, i.e no body hair, stubborn gut, low sex drive, hard to put on muscle, no motivation, poor memory etc.

I have managed to have one kid through ivf icsi but the fertility doctor told me it would of been a miracle if I had tried naturally.

So I got referred to a endo which took 2 years, had to see a geneticist first who referred me to the endo because they were worried that low test would lead to bone loss. I didnt think I was going to be on TRT so fast but after reviewing my 2011 results the doc gave me a script straight away.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by Tej.S
Also, what exactly do you mean by "how did it affect your fitness"? I know a handful of older guys(36 and older) who are currently doing TRT/HRT. Also, are you doing TRT solely based on your age/test levels or because you've used aas in the past?

No idea what AAS is.

how does it affect fitness as in how much muscle was anyone able to put on through normal working out, recovery times - it takes me like a good 2 weeks to recover from an intense workout currently.

[Modelexis]

anabolic androgenic steroids

[Darkane]

Originally posted by nzwasp


No idea what AAS is.

how does it affect fitness as in how much muscle was anyone able to put on through normal working out, recovery times - it takes me like a good 2 weeks to recover from an intense workout currently.

AAS = Steroids.

Well Recovery has A LOT to do with other things as well. Sure higher Test will help, but shit Women Recover too right.

You're probably just in overall bad shape anyway.

Give us your whole treatment. Dose, Frequency, Drug, any other ancillaries.

I've heard HORROR stories about Endo's. Fucking treatments stuck in the past.

[fiveowed]

are you over weight and do you smoke?

[Tej.S]

What Darkane said. If it's all hormone related, depending on your dose, the TRT might just help to keep your test levels optimal. If the dose is great enough to raise your test levels above average level, you will definitely see some great gains from going to the gym. If you want some personal in-depth experience, you can actually visit a few steroid forums where some of the natural users have had to go/are still on TRT due to low test levels. They talk about their experiences in and outside of the gym.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by fiveowed
are you over weight and do you smoke?

Not sure if overweight - im 6'2" and 200 lbs and no i dont smoke.

I do have some belly fat that I dont want.

Um they put me on enathane or something like that 200mg once every 2 weeks via self injection. Only option that seemed to make sense.

Although I cant start until i bank some sperm so I can have another kid in the future some time. So hopefully that wont be too far away. I'd like to get atleast my sex drive up to a frequent amount again.

[Tej.S]

Don't seem overweight at all. You got prescribed enanthate? Surprised they didn't give you cypionate, it's usually more common. Depending on how you react to it, it'll definitely aid you in putting on some lean muscle mass and fat loss too. Obviously you won't see bodybuilder like gains at that dosage/frequency, but it'll definitely help.

[bigbadboss101]

Vitor Belfor did TRT. Same idea?

[zipdoa]

I've been on HRT/TRT since I was 16. I have a cogenital hypogonadism, so before therapy my levels were nearly undetectable. My situation is very different from an older guy who has a functioning endocrine system but just wants to boost his T levels, but I still have a lot of knowledge about endocrinology and steroids. Ask away!

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by nzwasp


Not sure if overweight - im 6'2" and 200 lbs and no i dont smoke.

I do have some belly fat that I dont want.

Um they put me on enathane or something like that 200mg once every 2 weeks via self injection. Only option that seemed to make sense.

Although I cant start until i bank some sperm so I can have another kid in the future some time. So hopefully that wont be too far away. I'd like to get atleast my sex drive up to a frequent amount again.

You're on Testosterone Enanthate (probably branded as Delatestryl). I would recommend splitting that dose into 100mg/week. It will keep your T levels from spiking too much.

Watch out for acne. And frequent erections.

[CompletelyNumb]

Definitely do the dose weekly.

Get blood work done every month to see what it's keeping your levels at. You shouldn't see any negative side effects at that dosage.

[Maxt]

How safe is doing this therapy.. On a medical program the other day, a doc was going on about how testosterone therapy has increase cancer rates among men, and generally how bad of an idea it was to do HRT...
I am hypothyroid and will most likely be going to an endo soon for some other tests, I suspect they will be testing my T levels .

[Darkane]

He's self pinning. I would try and do 50mg every third day.

Have you had your estradiol levels checked since therapy?

@Zipdoa - are you taking arimidex or hcg along with your test?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Darkane
He's self pinning. I would try and do 50mg every third day.

Have you had your estradiol levels checked since therapy?

@Zipdoa - are you taking arimidex or hcg along with your test?

Nope. Honestly, I'd be suprised if my endo even knew that aromatase inhibitors were useful in men. Unfortunately I had gyno before I even started TRT, so I had surgery when I was 19. Hasn't returned. HCG wouldn't be useful in my situation - google Kallmann's Syndrome. To get my endocrine system working correctly, I'd have to get on GnRH.

[zipdoa]

OP - Care to comment on your experience so far?

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by zipdoa


You're on Testosterone Enanthate (probably branded as Delatestryl). I would recommend splitting that dose into 100mg/week. It will keep your T levels from spiking too much.

Watch out for acne. And frequent erections.

Yeah Im not looking forward to the acne. I think i'll prob start on the 200mg every 2 weeks until I get used to giving myself the shots, Im really not looking forward to injecting a needle into myself every 2 or every 1 week

[Darkane]

What guage of needle? Slin pins?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by nzwasp


Yeah Im not looking forward to the acne. I think i'll prob start on the 200mg every 2 weeks until I get used to giving myself the shots, Im really not looking forward to injecting a needle into myself every 2 or every 1 week

I get that mentality, but speaking from 8 years of experience, the more you do it the easier it becomes. Doing it biweekly means you only practice 26 times a year. It's scary and you can hurt yourself if you do it wrong, but take your time, be sanitary and you'll do fine. I can get it done in under five minutes. When I was doing it monthly, I'd have to psyche myself up for 20 minutes just to get the courage to stick myself.

You'll do fine. Get a 23g1 needle for injection and alternate quadriceps each time. It becomes easy and eventually you'll be stoked to get it done, knowing the effects it will have on your body. Good luck!

But you didn't answer my question... Notice any changes yet?

Edit: had wrong needle size. 22g1 for withdrawal 23g1 to inject

[nzwasp]

I pmd you, but no effects yet because i havent started I had to bank some sperm for a 2nd kid down the road. I also have a syndrome (different one) and it causes the low testosterone and a bunch of other effects. I'll prob start sometime in October.

[EK69]

I'm curious. What levels did u guys have for those who claim to have low testosterone? Or anyone else who has had there t levels checked, what were the results?

Which is more important when determining if ur low or not? Total testosterone or free testosterone? Or something else? (I've only read abt those two thus far)

And what constitutes low testosterone? Lower end of the "normal" scale that doctors use for lab results or even lower? (I think the range is from around 10-30 ish... Don't remember the units)

[SKR]

Originally posted by EK69
I'm curious. What levels did u guys have for those who claim to have low testosterone? Or anyone else who has had there t levels checked, what were the results?

Which is more important when determining if ur low or not? Total testosterone or free testosterone? Or something else? (I've only read abt those two thus far)

And what constitutes low testosterone? Lower end of the "normal" scale that doctors use for lab results or even lower? (I think the range is from around 10-30 ish... Don't remember the units)

It's 8 to 28, I think. I don't remember the units either, or if that's free or total testosterone.

I got tested twice. First one was 5.XX, and the second one was 8.XX. My doctor decided that meant I was good, and that was the end of that.

I listen to a podcast and they talk a lot about testosterone. They say the "normal" range is skewed because low testosterone goes undiagnosed so often that the low end of the normal range might include people with below-normal testosterone. Meaning that the actual low end of the normal range might actually be higher than 8. They mentioned a few times that if you're having trouble getting your regular doctor to give you a prescription to go see a urologist. I haven't done that but I intend to.

I tried puncture vine pills once. I knew they probably wouldn't work but they only cost $30 or so. I ended up just having more bizarre, vivid dreams and fucked with my sleep so I threw the pills out.

The podcast is "Weird Medicine". This is one of the shows that discusses testosterone.

http://www.doctorsteve.com/2012/05/29/004-the-testosterone-tango-or-how-to-tell-your-hot-doctor-you-have-a-rectal-fissure/

[nzwasp]

I'll check it out.

My doctor told me that there's your testosterone levels but they are monitored by another chemical in your brain and if that level is higher than normal it means that the testosterone you are producing is not capable of doing anything if its always triggering this sensor. Anyway my testosterone level is 13.5 not sure if that's free or total but my sensor level is 29 which is about 20 points higher than it should be I think. Its been like that since I was last tested in early 2011. I'm at the lab having another test for that now before starting treatment. The doctor suspects my levels will be worse.

The doctor I was recently referred to was dr kline at the richmond road (old childrens hospital) center.

Took me 18 months to get in with him.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by zipdoa


I get that mentality, but speaking from 8 years of experience, the more you do it the easier it becomes. Doing it biweekly means you only practice 26 times a year. It's scary and you can hurt yourself if you do it wrong, but take your time, be sanitary and you'll do fine. I can get it done in under five minutes. When I was doing it monthly, I'd have to psyche myself up for 20 minutes just to get the courage to stick myself.

You'll do fine. Get a 23g1 needle for injection and alternate quadriceps each time. It becomes easy and eventually you'll be stoked to get it done, knowing the effects it will have on your body. Good luck!

But you didn't answer my question... Notice any changes yet?

Edit: had wrong needle size. 22g1 for withdrawal 23g1 to inject

Did you notice much acne? I spoke to the pharmacy they told me they would be giving me 25g needles for the injections, no idea how long though. I think i can psyche myself up enough to do it. I guess im just afraid of the initial prick but I have had acupuncture a whole bunch of times in the same areas and it never hurts so im thinking that a 25g needle also wouldnt hurt.

With my syndrome I dont grow much facial hair, no chest or back hair and Im interested if all that will start to grow when i do start taking the shots? maybe this year I might be in the running for movember haha

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by nzwasp


Did you notice much acne? I spoke to the pharmacy they told me they would be giving me 25g needles for the injections, no idea how long though. I think i can psyche myself up enough to do it. I guess im just afraid of the initial prick but I have had acupuncture a whole bunch of times in the same areas and it never hurts so im thinking that a 25g needle also wouldnt hurt.

With my syndrome I dont grow much facial hair, no chest or back hair and Im interested if all that will start to grow when i do start taking the shots? maybe this year I might be in the running for movember haha

Initially, no acne. I had been on accutane through my teens and although it wasn't bad in the first place, it was completely gone by the time I was 19. I goofed through my twenties and took months off injection due to laziness/fear/emotional issues. When I got back on, I started to get bacne. I have moderate bacne now but my face and chest are fine. I'm going to try dove antibacterial soap because it seem to be the first choice amongst roiders.

25g needle seems really small. Might be a bitch to get the fluid through and into your leg. Injections are easy, just be sanitary as hell. You don't want a staph infection deep inside your leg. You'll likely notice secondary sex characteristics, but nothing beyond your genetic potential - eg: if you have a brother who doesn't suffer from an endocronological defect, and isn't particularly hairy, you probably won't suddenly grow body hair like an arab.

[nzwasp]

I spoke to the nurse at the clinic and im starting next thurs. Apparently I need a 22g or 23g needle to inject like you said and a 18g to withdrawal. Hopefully it will come easily to me.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I spoke to the nurse at the clinic and im starting next thurs. Apparently I need a 22g or 23g needle to inject like you said and a 18g to withdrawal. Hopefully it will come easily to me.

They'll show you how to do it. Try and do it weekly. The more often it happens, the easier it becomes.

[EK69]

Originally posted by SKR


It's 8 to 28, I think. I don't remember the units either, or if that's free or total testosterone.

I got tested twice. First one was 5.XX, and the second one was 8.XX. My doctor decided that meant I was good, and that was the end of that.

I listen to a podcast and they talk a lot about testosterone. They say the "normal" range is skewed because low testosterone goes undiagnosed so often that the low end of the normal range might include people with below-normal testosterone. Meaning that the actual low end of the normal range might actually be higher than 8. They mentioned a few times that if you're having trouble getting your regular doctor to give you a prescription to go see a urologist. I haven't done that but I intend to.

I tried puncture vine pills once. I knew they probably wouldn't work but they only cost $30 or so. I ended up just having more bizarre, vivid dreams and fucked with my sleep so I threw the pills out.

The podcast is "Weird Medicine". This is one of the shows that discusses testosterone.

http://www.doctorsteve.com/2012/05/29/004-the-testosterone-tango-or-how-to-tell-your-hot-doctor-you-have-a-rectal-fissure/

I'll have to check that out
I'll probably ask my doctor to mark off the testosterone test next blood check too. Is there any specific tests to be doing? Other than checking off "testosterone" on the sheet lol.

There's others in here that said they are low test levels. How did u find out and what tests did you do to find out?

[bigbadboss101]

Once I ask a doctor to send me for blood test and also testosterone test. He told me not waste tax payer's money. I am curious though.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
Once I ask a doctor to send me for blood test and also testosterone test. He told me not waste tax payer's money. I am curious though.

Sounds like a terrible doctor.

[OneGreasyHobo]

Originally posted by Darkane
He's self pinning. I would try and do 50mg every third day.

Have you had your estradiol levels checked since therapy?

@Zipdoa - are you taking arimidex or hcg along with your test?

It's a long ester, twice a week would be all that is needed. Mon/Thursday


As for needles, 22x1.5, for withdraw and inject for glutes, 23x1 for mostly anything else.

Ahh I didn't read its only 100mg per week.. I'd do it once a week, but thats me.

[nzwasp]

I start tomorrow with the shots. Ive also started doing a 45min hiit routine everyday so im hoping the shots will build some muscle and help me recover a bit faster than the current 3 weeks recovery i currently have.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I start tomorrow with the shots. Ive also started doing a 45min hiit routine everyday so im hoping the shots will build some muscle and help me recover a bit faster than the current 3 weeks recovery i currently have.

HRT will make a difference, but it's just one component. Pay attention to nutrition and rest as well. Is your HIIT based on running/cycling or weight training?

[nzwasp]

Weight training based. I've upped my protein a lot as well.

[OneGreasyHobo]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Weight training based. I've upped my protein a lot as well.

Up your protein, eat good and enjoy.

Your first shot is the only scary one.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by OneGreasyHobo


Up your protein, eat good and enjoy.

Your first shot is the only scary one.

I'd say your first shot, the first time you clip a vein (gets a little bloody), and the first time you get a big lump post injection.

I like to apply pressure and massage out the injection site for a minute post-injection to make sure the hormone gets distributed well and hopefully prevents lumping.

Still have never gotten an infection, and hopefully never will... now THAT would be fucking scary. Sanitize like your life depends on it!!

[OneGreasyHobo]

Originally posted by zipdoa


I'd say your first shot, the first time you clip a vein (gets a little bloody), and the first time you get a big lump post injection.

I like to apply pressure and massage out the injection site for a minute post-injection to make sure the hormone gets distributed well and hopefully prevents lumping.

Still have never gotten an infection, and hopefully never will... now THAT would be fucking scary. Sanitize like your life depends on it!!

Ever try the tennis ball to massage out the muscle? I have friends that swear by it.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by OneGreasyHobo


Ever try the tennis ball to massage out the muscle? I have friends that swear by it.

Nope, but that's an excellent idea. I've used a foam roller when I suspect I might get a bit of a lump (any clue why that happens?). Same idea, but the tennis ball is probably easier and more accessible.

[OneGreasyHobo]

Originally posted by zipdoa


Nope, but that's an excellent idea. I've used a foam roller when I suspect I might get a bit of a lump (any clue why that happens?). Same idea, but the tennis ball is probably easier and more accessible.

Lumps happen once in a blue moon. From what I remember it has to do with the oil reacting to your body. Sometimes the oil will get stuck in that one spot. Never had a lump that has lasted more then a day.

Just give it a good rub and you will be flying!

[nzwasp]

Just did my first shot after two practices, it was pretty easy, not sure what I was worried about. The needle going in and the injection both didn't hurt.

[nzwasp]

So I went to get my testosterone vial from the drug store yesterday and the pharmacist told me the company stopped making it for the time being and they hope to have some June 1st. I then called about 20 pharmacys in Calgary and finally found one in the NW that had a couple of vials to last me the next 5 months.

Have any other beyonders had this problem?

The product i use is testosterone enanthate

[Milk2%]

https://www.tigertailusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/892255000634-2.jpg


Tiger Tail.

Energetics makes another great one

[chathamf]

Do you have to pay or will a benefit package cover it? Also what is the testing procedure? Just get some blood work done?

[Rat Fink]

.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by chathamf
Do you have to pay or will a benefit package cover it? Also what is the testing procedure? Just get some blood work done?

My benefits cover the cost of all the medicine however I pay for needles and syringes.

I had to be referred to a endocrinologist to get on it and it was due to having very low levels of test in my system due to a syndrome I was born with. I was referred to him in 2011 and I was seen in late 2013.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
I'm not sure if I'm in this boat, but I'm going to be getting tested soon. I've been working out 5 times/week at intense levels since October and have had minimal gains. I also used to be a pretty hairy dude and now that's dropping away.

You grow from proper nutrition and training regime. 5x/week is unnecessary and counter-productive unless you've got great genetics and recovery abilities. Not saying you don't have test issues, just that the logic of 'i train a lot so I must be sw0l3 by now, otherwise my test levels are low' isn't that good a benchmark.

[Rat Fink]

.

[scboss]

rxwXIgnmAOI

awesome vid on what hormones actually do for muscle growth and size. For the amount your taking it wont really help you with muscle mass but it will def give you the energy to help put it on

[nzwasp]

Thread bump.

So when i started I was 200lbs, 7 years later my highest weight was 245lbs and now thanks to diet Im coming down to current 231 lbs. Lost all my hair, gained a beard and hair on my chest. At the start of treatment my libido was crazy but now that seems to of subsided - may need to increase the frequency of my injections, I only saw the endo once when I started TRT - never been told to have a follow up or anything. The reason I started was because I discovered i had a rare syndrome that causes low T and the doctor said I would be on it for life.

I find I get some funny looks when travelling with needles etc, the only time I really had a hassle was when I was working for Suncor the flight crew wouldnt let me board the plane with it. They thought it was illegal drugs.

[tirebob]

Thread bump.

So when i started I was 200lbs, 7 years later my highest weight was 245lbs and now thanks to diet Im coming down to current 231 lbs. Lost all my hair, gained a beard and hair on my chest. At the start of treatment my libido was crazy but now that seems to of subsided - may need to increase the frequency of my injections, I only saw the endo once when I started TRT - never been told to have a follow up or anything. The reason I started was because I discovered i had a rare syndrome that causes low T and the doctor said I would be on it for life.

I find I get some funny looks when travelling with needles etc, the only time I really had a hassle was when I was working for Suncor the flight crew wouldnt let me board the plane with it. They thought it was illegal drugs.

I have a buddy with low T and he uses some kind of shit that you rub on like underarm deodorant. Is that something less aggressive or is it a different thing all together?

[nzwasp]

I have a buddy with low T and he uses some kind of shit that you rub on like underarm deodorant. Is that something less aggressive or is it a different thing all together?

The endo told me that basically the best treatment is the injections. The problem with creams is you can get it on your wife or someone else and then it could affect them.

[riander5]

Thread bump.

So when i started I was 200lbs, 7 years later my highest weight was 245lbs and now thanks to diet Im coming down to current 231 lbs. Lost all my hair, gained a beard and hair on my chest. At the start of treatment my libido was crazy but now that seems to of subsided - may need to increase the frequency of my injections, I only saw the endo once when I started TRT - never been told to have a follow up or anything. The reason I started was because I discovered i had a rare syndrome that causes low T and the doctor said I would be on it for life.

I find I get some funny looks when travelling with needles etc, the only time I really had a hassle was when I was working for Suncor the flight crew wouldnt let me board the plane with it. They thought it was illegal drugs.

What kind of weight did you put on? Did you gain muscle or just fat?

[birdman86]

What's the process to get tested for this stuff - family doctor, get a few rounds of bloodwork. Get prescription if tests support it, then follow up with endo eventually to fine tune treatment? And monthly cost of meds?

[nzwasp]

What kind of weight did you put on? Did you gain muscle or just fat?

I’m sure I put on some muscle but mostly got flabbier. I wasn’t really working out though.

[nzwasp]

What's the process to get tested for this stuff - family doctor, get a few rounds of bloodwork. Get prescription if tests support it, then follow up with endo eventually to fine tune treatment? And monthly cost of meds?

Basically yeah. I don’t pay anything for my meds they are all covered under health insurance. A box of 100 needles lasted me 3 years

[ThePenIsMightier]

Basically yeah. I don’t pay anything for my meds they are all covered under health insurance. A box of 100 needles lasted me 3 years

Is this a common side effect? Is that why you brought it up?

*Edit
*Wrong quote. I meant to quote the one about weight gain.

[nzwasp]

Is this a common side effect? Is that why you brought it up?

I dont understand your question

[ThePenIsMightier]

I dont understand your question

Sorry. I must have quoted the wrong post.
I meant to quote the one about weight gain.

[nzwasp]

Sorry. I must have quoted the wrong post.
I meant to quote the one about weight gain.

I this it is. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/2/407/2823214

Heres a pic of me pre injection and a pic of me recently.

note bigger arms and gut and no hair. (the recent pic is before I started doing any real exercise).

I tried to find another shirtless photo but I cant find any.

Pre 2013 - Looked like this shape for years, basically since I left school
96888

2018
96889

[riander5]

I find it interesting you never get your T levels tested after you started? Do you have any idea what your levels are at?

Having optimized T levels leading to weight gain in the midsection is odd... unless your estrogen levels are high and i assume unchecked as well.

If i was doing HRT and my libido wasn't awesome and wasn't as lean as I was when I was 20.. id certainly be asking some questions

[nzwasp]

I find it interesting you never get your T levels tested after you started? Do you have any idea what your levels are at?

Having optimized T levels leading to weight gain in the midsection is odd... unless your estrogen levels are high and i assume unchecked as well.

If i was doing HRT and my libido wasn't awesome and wasn't as lean as I was when I was 20.. id certainly be asking some questions

Im not even quite sure that I could ask the endocrinologist for a follow up 7 years later. I was basically told due to my syndrome that it would always be low. I will ask my doctor next time I see her. I probably need to be taking my injections more often than once every 2 weeks. I logged into that myhealth records but they only keep data for 18 months in there which is annoying.

[Misterman]

Thread bump.

So when i started I was 200lbs, 7 years later my highest weight was 245lbs and now thanks to diet Im coming down to current 231 lbs. Lost all my hair, gained a beard and hair on my chest. At the start of treatment my libido was crazy but now that seems to of subsided - may need to increase the frequency of my injections, I only saw the endo once when I started TRT - never been told to have a follow up or anything. The reason I started was because I discovered i had a rare syndrome that causes low T and the doctor said I would be on it for life.

I find I get some funny looks when travelling with needles etc, the only time I really had a hassle was when I was working for Suncor the flight crew wouldnt let me board the plane with it. They thought it was illegal drugs.

What sort of dose have you been on? Did he have you take anything else, like for estrogen control?

They absolutely should have had you come in for routine bloodwork until you were lined out. If it was me I would look at scheduling some bloodwork to find out where you're at and if any fine tuning is required.

I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.




Im not even quite sure that I could ask the endocrinologist for a follow up 7 years later. I was basically told due to my syndrome that it would always be low. I will ask my doctor next time I see her. I probably need to be taking my injections more often than once every 2 weeks. I logged into that myhealth records but they only keep data for 18 months in there which is annoying.

Every 2 weeks is a pretty old protocol now. The more frequent your injections, the more stable your levels will be. I didn't see what ester they have you on? Generally it would be Enanthate, which you can get away with once a week, but every 4 days or so is much better.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.


Can you just arbitrarily decide to start again? Is there not criteria to meet medically to get your Dr. to initiate it? What led to it in the first place (if that isn't too personal)? My understanding is it is somewhat difficult to get a Dr. to prescribe it.

20 questions......

[nzwasp]

What sort of dose have you been on? Did he have you take anything else, like for estrogen control?

They absolutely should have had you come in for routine bloodwork until you were lined out. If it was me I would look at scheduling some bloodwork to find out where you're at and if any fine tuning is required.

I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.


Every 2 weeks is a pretty old protocol now. The more frequent your injections, the more stable your levels will be. I didn't see what ester they have you on? Generally it would be Enanthate, which you can get away with once a week, but every 4 days or so is much better.

Im on 200mg testosterone cypionate every two weeks. I used to be on enanthate but the pharmacy couldnt get any supplies. It seems like every year they have a shortage of one of the two testosterone supplements.

My opinion on specialist health care in Canada is quite low, it seems you see a specialist they do a procedure or give you some drugs and you never see them again.

[spike98]

Here his how my journey went, warning, its a lot!:

About 5 years ago, things started to change for me. Tired all the time, brain fog, no motivation to do anything, fat gain/muscle loss, little bit of ED ect. I basically just didn't give a shit anymore and was coasting through life. My mood also caused a lot of problems in my relationship. I figured i would get myself checked out by my doctor. I always have physicals with nothing coming up but after describing my symptoms, he gave me a full work up. After the labs came back and i went for my follow up, he sat me down and told me it was in my head and i should hit up some counseling, that my bloods were fine and there is nothing physically wrong with me. So, on his advise, i did some counseling. About 10 sessions in total if i recall. They had value for sure and was a nice outlet to vent my daily woes. However she figured there isn't much wrong with me head wise. Her words "You're about as stressed as a normal human being"

Frustrated, i started some research myself. Hormone balance was something that consistently came up but i kind of ignored it. I was 35, there is no way that was me. I was kind of embarrassed about it to be honest. Things like testosterone are essentially what makes you a man and too much of it makes you roid rage. That said, I was still curious so i got involved with a calgary men's wellness clinic (more on this later). They went through the full gamut. Physical (including the ol dipstick), blood work,iron , D, cortisol, all the body fluids, everything. Everything was normal shy of some body fat i had form being a lazy POS except for a few things in my lab. My total Testosterone was a 9.6nmo/L, free testosterone 227pmol/L and DHEA was 3. All low. Very low. The problem is that it was still considered in range for males 25-85. Yes. Up to 85 years old. My original doctor basically looks for the bold lettering when labs come back that state out of range and considers it normal otherwise. He suggested that this could totally be the issue.

The thing with test is that doctors don't know much about it and its effects for normal people. The stigma is, supplement test and you are a steroid user. You'll have roid rage and likely snap and kill your family or die from a heart attack by the time you are 40. Because of this, it is often scoffed at by GP's. They don't study it because of its stigma. The reality is that "normal" can mean many different levels and many different symptoms. Low test could be the cause of other issues often associated with mental health like anxiety and depression. Its a major component of how we work and function.

So, enter Clomid.For this clinic, this is usually the first step. This is a drug that boosts testosterone by making your body think that estrogen(E2) levels are low. The link between estrogen and testosterone is very important and you need a balance between the two. Clomid lowers your E2 so you body jacks the Test. I did this for about 8 weeks and did some blood work. My numbers were up by almost double! But that was it. No real change in symptoms. I was also experiencing mood swings now and was often to sensitive to things (ie crying, fuck). Classic symptoms of high estrogen. I didn't like it and felt worse so back to the clinic i went.

After a long discussion they agreed to put me on injections. I didn't want the cream. Transfer, multiple daily applications, and inconsistency were my concerns. So they put me on injections. Delatestryl, testosterone enanthate, 100mg every week and supplemented DHEA. This is a standard protocol from what I found. It was scary to be honest, its a life time gig. Once you are on it, your body stops producing its own and its really hard to kickstart it back into production if on it long enough. But i honestly didn't have much to lose, I just wanted to feel me again. Over the course of a month, i just felt better and better. Fog lifted, energy returned, random boners were back, i felt great! Near the end of the week of my cycle, i would start to feel drained a bit and be a little cranky though. After about 3 months, i got my bloods again, levels were high! 26.4nmol/L total and 701pmol/L. This was just over the "normal range" on the lab work. However my estradiol was high, 185pmol/L. Bloods are done at the end of the week and this totally explained why i would peter out and became a crybaby on day 5-6. Made an adjustment to the protocol myself and started splitting up the dose to every 3 days. More frequent injections lead to are more stable test level and lower estradiol as there is less conversion as excess T gets converted.

Fast forward another 8 weeks. Symptoms of high E are gone. I feel like fucking superman most days. Confidence way up. Fat dripping off. Muscle mass obviously increasing (most noticeable on my calves and forearms). My mood was stable. Boners! Boners all the time. I for the first time in a while felt like i had a purpose. Like i could do anything i wanted to. The drive was back. I did my bloods after 3 months again. Same T levels with a slight downtick in my Estradiol (128pmol/L). Not amazing but out of the high range. Doc didn't like the high E so he wanted to lower my dosage. I felt fine, no E symptoms at all even though it was high on paper. Remember, its a balance. Higher test will obviously lead to higher E. Its the ratio that is important.

Having done some research, i had asked to switch to testosterone cypionate. Its a longer lasting ester and is the gold standard for TRT. With a longer half life, it should not aromatize as bad and bring my E number down a bit. He agreed and off i went. Same dosage mg wise, every 3 days like before. I still felt great. Got a promotion at work even. 10 weeks later we did the labs again and sure enough. Lower E. 128pmol/L and back down in the normal range. Free T and Total T were all the same as before. I was dialed in. That leads me to today. I feel like i am a man again. I have lost 10lbs, back to dieting and regular exercise, I am full of confidence and energy. I just feel me and couldn't be happier. I do have one negative side effect and that's increased prostate pressure. Doc has me on 5mg daily cialis for this and works perfect. Bonus is my erections are like lead pipes.

Now some lessons learned that are oh so important:

- Stress, diet, exercise, and sleep are the most important factors that can impact your test. Do your best to get these check.
- This is a long process. Expect it to take a year plus to diagnose and dial in.
- Most GP's do not know shit about TRT and hormones. They go by the ranges in labs which can wildly vary. They are focused on the numbers and not the symptoms and often say its mental.
- With TRT, less is more sometimes. Its not about being jacked its about restoring the balance. Your body knows what it needs.
- Estrogen is important too, too much and you cry like a baby and get tits, not enough and TRT is pointless because low E feels a lot like low T.
- Own it. I don't hide it or keep it secret. Ill tell everyone and anyone about my story because of how its changed my life.
- Most, yes MOST men are not operating at optimal levels of test. Plastics we store our food/drinks in, preservatives, shitty life styles/diets, stress, ect are all part of our daily life today that has been systematically reducing the amount of Test we produce compared to 50 years ago. The average test in males has decreased by half since then.


To the clinic...

I wont share the name unless someone PM's me but they did me well in the beginning. It kind of started to feel like i was a dollar bill and that they just wanted to keep me coming back for money. This process costed a lot. A few thousand the first year with the visits and checks. The scripts are covered of course but you pay $175 every time you walk into the clinic. It felt near the end that he wanted to just change my script to keep me coming back. Now i am on 6 month visits which is better. That said, I will be switching however to an online clinic next time. They are game changes in the states and finally we have a decent one in canada as well. Will be cheaper overall and more centered around TRT specifically. I wish this was around when i started. Will also share this by PM too.

Overall its been a life changing experience and has had an immensely positive effect on my life, my career, and my relationships. I would encourage anyone to get checked.

[Misterman]

Can you just arbitrarily decide to start again? Is there not criteria to meet medically to get your Dr. to initiate it? What led to it in the first place (if that isn't too personal)? My understanding is it is somewhat difficult to get a Dr. to prescribe it.

20 questions......

Personally I'm familiar enough with my system that I am not visiting a doctor for this. I did get some bloodwork to get my baseline numbers though.

Really depends on your doctor, but family doctor is the wrong guy to go to if you want to get on TRT. My doctor is great, but at the end of the day a GP is a jack of all trades and specialist at nothing. Plus what is actually a healthy level of testosterone is horribly misunderstood by most doctors, which is understandable as they work off archaic knowledge from schooling that we have learned way more about in the past 5-10 years. I'll be looking for a TRT prescription if I get the job offer to get out of Canada. At that time I will go to a TRT clinic that specializes in this. There is one in Sherwood Park called True Balance.

As far as what led to TRT. I used to be a competitive bodybuilder. And if you're going to to cycle steroids more than once a year, it's not worth flip flopping your system and potentially losing some of your gains when you cycle off. So I decided to just do TRT between cycles. After that, I just decided I wanted to be on the high side of normal forever. There is no health benefits to being low T, and it continues to get lower as you age. So it makes sense from a health perspective to just go TRT and control your hormone levels.

[spike98]

I this it is. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/2/407/2823214

Heres a pic of me pre injection and a pic of me recently.

note bigger arms and gut and no hair. (the recent pic is before I started doing any real exercise).

I tried to find another shirtless photo but I cant find any.

Pre 2013 - Looked like this shape for years, basically since I left school
96888

2018
96889

Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.

[nzwasp]

Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.

You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/estrogen-in-men#symptoms-of-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

[spike98]

You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/estrogen-in-men#symptoms-of-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

Not entirely because i am not qualified to make that determination. But in my research it certainly suggests that. Also google symptoms of high estrogen in men. Similar symptoms. Im more so going off of what i have seen in the forums. Guys posting pictures looking for advice by people doing this much much longer than me.

[Misterman]

Im on 200mg testosterone cypionate every two weeks. I used to be on enanthate but the pharmacy couldnt get any supplies. It seems like every year they have a shortage of one of the two testosterone supplements.

My opinion on specialist health care in Canada is quite low, it seems you see a specialist they do a procedure or give you some drugs and you never see them again.

I would say it's worth your time to visit a clinic like True balance that I mentioned. It might even be covered by your insurance.

I don't know the specifics of your condition, but for a general TRT dose it seems a little low and far too spaced out. Cyp and Enanthate aren't really much different half life, so pinning times would be pretty much the same.

BTW, if you're still using those giant needles, you can easily switch to an insulin needle. I find them much more comfortable, it's a 29g vs a 22g, huge difference. I just use a 22g to draw my shot, then pull the plunger out of the slin pin and squirt the shot into the insulin syringe. place the stopper back in lightly, turn the whole thing upside down to let the air up to the needle, then push the air out and you're good to go.

[Misterman]

You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/estrogen-in-men#symptoms-of-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

Low and high estrogen both have very similar side effects. Although high estrogen tends to affect your emotional side a lot as well as the other things.

[riander5]

Fast forward another 8 weeks. Symptoms of high E are gone. I feel like fucking superman most days. Confidence way up. Fat dripping off. Muscle mass obviously increasing (most noticeable on my calves and forearms). My mood was stable. Boners! Boners all the time. I for the first time in a while felt like i had a purpose. Like i could do anything i wanted to. The drive was back. I did my bloods after 3 months again. Same T levels with a slight downtick in my Estradiol (128pmol/L). Not amazing but out of the high range. Doc didn't like the high E so he wanted to lower my dosage. I felt fine, no E symptoms at all even though it was high on paper. Remember, its a balance. Higher test will obviously lead to higher E. Its the ratio that is important.

Overall its been a life changing experience and has had an immensely positive effect on my life, my career, and my relationships. I would encourage anyone to get checked.

Snip

This is exactly how proper TRT should feel for someone with low T. Not just a spike for a few weeks and back to normal

[nzwasp]

I would say it's worth your time to visit a clinic like True balance that I mentioned. It might even be covered by your insurance.

I don't know the specifics of your condition, but for a general TRT dose it seems a little low and far too spaced out. Cyp and Enanthate aren't really much different half life, so pinning times would be pretty much the same.

BTW, if you're still using those giant needles, you can easily switch to an insulin needle. I find them much more comfortable, it's a 29g vs a 22g, huge difference. I just use a 22g to draw my shot, then pull the plunger out of the slin pin and squirt the shot into the insulin syringe. place the stopper back in lightly, turn the whole thing upside down to let the air up to the needle, then push the air out and you're good to go.

I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

[ExtraSlow]

a referral to an endo is probably the best you can hope for from your family physician. Worth doing I'd think either way.

[Misterman]

I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

It's a sad state of affairs when you can get quicker and more accurate help from a bunch of meatheads on a steroid forum. lol

It seems like it would be impossible to get the oil through that small of a gauge of needle. But once you think about how pressure is created it makes more sense. The force you apply from your thumb is constant, but it's applied to a much smaller surface area plunger that directly acts on the fluid in the syringe. So you're creating a lot more pressure. And even if my meathead science doesn't make sense, I can guarantee personally that it just works, I've gone through over 300 insulin syringes. The main issue is getting it deep enough in the muscle, but if you don't have a ton of bodyfat, a 5/8" needle will do the trick.

[riander5]

I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

This circles back to the naturopath thread. Unless you got an allstar needle in the haystack GP, you gotta do all this shit yourself. Assume to live your best life you need to become an expert on TRT and hormone replacement. Will be worth it in the end.

Also despite this guy being a massive bro and having some other hilarious content to just drum up views, he is smart as fuck when it comes to steroids, TRT, and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoR7CHkMETs3ByOv74OAbFw

[spike98]

I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

Ill disagree with Extraslow, i would go third party clinic. Youll be in within a couple of weeks. Even endo's can be wacky. I have heard some folks online going from an Endo to a Uro then back to an Endo because neither of them want to deal with it. These MD's at the clinics are often one or the other anyways. You just pay to play.

There is also the telemedicine clinic that is getting great reviews in canada as well.

You could be waiting for months to see an endo only to turn out nothing is wrong or you could be fixed with an adjustment to your protocol. It starts with the bloods so the sooner you can get those done, the better.

[nzwasp]

I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?


Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.

The syndrome I have also causes this but perhaps its because of the Estrogen levels. The Syndrome I have is called Kleinsfelters Mosaics - I was born with an extra X chromosome in some cells:

The symptoms of which are these and I will explain how some affect me, mosaics mean not all symptoms apply to me.

Low sperm count or no sperm (When we had kids I was told I had a 99.999999999999% chance of never having kids - had to go IVF ICSI to have two kids)
Small testicles (I didnt realize I had this but I do however I have a large varicocele in one of my nuts which makes it seem large to me)
Low sex drive (didnt notice this when I was in my 20s, I think its more noticeable now, even with TRT it might just be because of my dosage)
Taller than average height
Weak bones (one of the reasons im on TRT is that this syndrome gives you a increased chance of osteoporosis)
Decreased facial and body hair (yes - never had any hair on chest/back or face)
Less muscular compared with other men
Enlarged breast tissue (i had a lump next to my nipple during puberty - it went away after awhile - in NZ they never tested for this syndrome)
Increased belly fat (I always had a bit of a gut during teenage years / 20s but nothing compared to what I have now)

[Misterman]

I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?

I mentioned in another post why I started. Basically wasn't worth swinging my hormones all over between cycles. But then it transitioned to health as I just wanted to maintain steady higher test levels as I age.

I know 3 friends who have gone to that specific clinic and had great results. I plan to use them myself once I need to get a script.

[spike98]

I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?



The syndrome I have also causes this but perhaps its because of the Estrogen levels. The Syndrome I have is called Kleinsfelters Mosaics - I was born with an extra X chromosome in some cells:

The symptoms of which are these and I will explain how some affect me, mosaics mean not all symptoms apply to me.

Low sperm count or no sperm (When we had kids I was told I had a 99.999999999999% chance of never having kids - had to go IVF ICSI to have two kids)
Small testicles (I didnt realize I had this but I do however I have a large varicocele in one of my nuts which makes it seem large to me)
Low sex drive (didnt notice this when I was in my 20s, I think its more noticeable now, even with TRT it might just be because of my dosage)
Taller than average height
Weak bones (one of the reasons im on TRT is that this syndrome gives you a increased chance of osteoporosis)
Decreased facial and body hair (yes - never had any hair on chest/back or face)
Less muscular compared with other men
Enlarged breast tissue (i had a lump next to my nipple during puberty - it went away after awhile - in NZ they never tested for this syndrome)
Increased belly fat (I always had a bit of a gut during teenage years / 20s but nothing compared to what I have now)

I definately didn't consider any preconditions you had for sure. It may not be E related. Still, definitely get checked. Did some checking on the syndrome, fascinating.

[nzwasp]

Yeah I just filled in the pre patient stuff for that clinic Misterman recommended me for. Looks like the costs aren't crazy or anything and they use AHS labs for blood tests.

[SKR]

I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.

[nzwasp]

I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.

I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).

[zipdoa]

I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.

Wow - I'll echo the previous poster and say you should learn to pin yourself. It's very easy. Once your comfortable with the process, reduce the injection interval to weekly, and then every 4th day if possible. You might consider exploring subcutaneous injections vs IM, as the bioavailability of test increases and you can reduce the volume you inject. It's also much less trauma at the injection site. GL!

[SKR]

I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).


Wow - I'll echo the previous poster and say you should learn to pin yourself. It's very easy. Once your comfortable with the process, reduce the injection interval to weekly, and then every 4th day if possible. You might consider exploring subcutaneous injections vs IM, as the bioavailability of test increases and you can reduce the volume you inject. It's also much less trauma at the injection site. GL!

I never have done it myself, but I could probably figure it out. I watched my dad give himself insulin 4 times a day for 30 years so it would be easy enough to do. I'd rather not though.

I don't mind going in and getting the needles though. I don't generally deal with a lot of people throughout the day, so going in to a pharmacy isn't a big deal like it would be for someone who just wants to go home and sit in quiet. It's nice to have some kind of an interaction with someone other than myself once in a while. It's only a 5 minute drive to get there. And I don't need to go any more often than every 14 days. I've been tested on day 7 and day 14, and my levels are still well above the low end of normal. It's not until day 16-18 where the effects of low testosterone start to affect me, and even then it's just hot flashes every few days. That's unpleasant but I can deal with that.

If I needed a top up more often or if I wasn't able to get in to the pharmacy on day 14 I might consider the needles, but this is working alright for me.

[spike98]

I personally use 25ga draw and inject with 1cc barrels. I find the 1cc is much easier to plunge. Alternating thighs for me. No scar tissue or PIP.

[birdman86]

Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?

[SKR]

I don't know piss all from paint about that. Alls I know is I expected to be low on testosterone. I went in and got tested, and turns out I was low. Then they told me to get 2mL of Depo-T every 2 weeks. I assume that's for the rest of my life. I don't know what other tests I had done or what their results were, and the myhealth thing doesn't show all my test results.

[nzwasp]

Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?

I don't know about the other guys but I get 10ML of cypionate every 58 days. Insurance doesn't allow you to have more than one at a time, so you cant bank them up if you are going on a long vacation. Atleast my insurance/pharmacy doesn't allow this - seems to be different in the states. Other than that its needles and alcohol wipes to keep everything sterile.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't know piss all from paint about that. Alls I know is I expected to be low on testosterone. I went in and got tested, and turns out I was low. Then they told me to get 2mL of Depo-T every 2 weeks. I assume that's for the rest of my life. I don't know what other tests I had done or what their results were, and the myhealth thing doesn't show all my test results.

This seems very similar to the experience I had with your dosage - except the Endo at the Richmond Road Health Center told me this instead of my doctor. Infact thats where I was taught how to give myself shots as well.

I have been a bit lazy and forgetting to do my shots on time, I suspect that hasn't helped with keeping everything on track. I wish there was some kind of app for tracking the shots Its a pain in the arse in the calendar to do the alternative legs thing.

[SKR]

I have been a bit lazy and forgetting to do my shots on time, I suspect that hasn't helped with keeping everything on track. I wish there was some kind of app for tracking the shots Its a pain in the arse in the calendar to do the alternative legs thing.

Do you have to alternate? I just get the shots in my shoulder. I usually get it in the same one, until I notice that it starts to ache a little longer and then I switch.

If I have to start pulling my pants down to get it in my legs or ass cheek in the pharmacy, that's going to take a lot of the fun out of it.

[spike98]

Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?

Testing:

- Free Test
- Total Test
- Estradiol
- DHEA-S
- LH
- FSH
- Full CBC
- Thyroid
- Cortisol, all day (if you can afford it)

Prescriptions:

- Test C
- HCG (if you want to have kids and dont want to freeze sperm)

Thats all you will need. You can mess with other things later but its important to get a baseline first and the doc will adjust you from there.

[nzwasp]

Testing:

- Free Test
- Total Test
- Estradiol
- DHEA-S
- LH
- FSH
- Full CBC
- Thyroid
- Cortisol, all day (if you can afford it)

Prescriptions:

- Test C
- HCG (if you want to have kids and dont want to freeze sperm)

Thats all you will need. You can mess with other things later but its important to get a baseline first and the doc will adjust you from there.

Freezing sperm also costs money and has a yearly freezer storage cost of about $300

[Misterman]

I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).



I rotate glutes, quads, and shoulders

Best place for needles if you're not covered, or if you just want access to supply, is this site here. Comes from Campbell River, so shipping is pretty quick.

https://www.canadianmedsupplies.com/category.sc?categoryId=21

[Misterman]

I never have done it myself, but I could probably figure it out. I watched my dad give himself insulin 4 times a day for 30 years so it would be easy enough to do. I'd rather not though.

I don't mind going in and getting the needles though. I don't generally deal with a lot of people throughout the day, so going in to a pharmacy isn't a big deal like it would be for someone who just wants to go home and sit in quiet. It's nice to have some kind of an interaction with someone other than myself once in a while. It's only a 5 minute drive to get there. And I don't need to go any more often than every 14 days. I've been tested on day 7 and day 14, and my levels are still well above the low end of normal. It's not until day 16-18 where the effects of low testosterone start to affect me, and even then it's just hot flashes every few days. That's unpleasant but I can deal with that.

If I needed a top up more often or if I wasn't able to get in to the pharmacy on day 14 I might consider the needles, but this is working alright for me.

It's important to keep above a certain level for your test. But it is also very important to keep your levels steady. The longer you go between shots, the lower the dips you'll have in your levels. If you feel it's more annoyance than it's worth, that's a personal decision. But just to share some awareness, you would likely feel better with more frequent shots.







If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?


If estrogen is low, you likely would not be prescribed an anti estrogen like Clomid.

[SKR]

It's important to keep above a certain level for your test. But it is also very important to keep your levels steady. The longer you go between shots, the lower the dips you'll have in your levels. If you feel it's more annoyance than it's worth, that's a personal decision. But just to share some awareness, you would likely feel better with more frequent shots.


You might be right. I think I feel pretty much the same from day 1 to day 14. I know I definitely did not like doing it daily with the gel. Rather than having 1 or 2 low days in a 14 day period, I had 14 low days in a 14 day period. But that was gel, that was supposed to be an equivalent dose but maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

I do know I have to battle a little with one of the pharmacists. Right from the word go she's been trying to get me down from 2mL to 1mL every 2 weeks. I feel good so I don't want to fuck with it, and the doctor agrees with me.

[spike98]

I rotate glutes, quads, and shoulders

Best place for needles if you're not covered, or if you just want access to supply, is this site here. Comes from Campbell River, so shipping is pretty quick.

https://www.canadianmedsupplies.com/category.sc?categoryId=21

I get my pharmasist to just order me a box of each. It was VERY cheap and about half the price as the stuff from this site. A box of 100 1cc BD barrels and 100 25ga x 1" was $55.


You might be right. I think I feel pretty much the same from day 1 to day 14. I know I definitely did not like doing it daily with the gel. Rather than having 1 or 2 low days in a 14 day period, I had 14 low days in a 14 day period. But that was gel, that was supposed to be an equivalent dose but maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

I do know I have to battle a little with one of the pharmacists. Right from the word go she's been trying to get me down from 2mL to 1mL every 2 weeks. I feel good so I don't want to fuck with it, and the doctor agrees with me.

Which is a MAJOR benefit to self injections. You can adjust as you see fit and avoid every arm chair endo along the way.