Illegal to have cell in hand while driving

[speedog]

From the Glove and Mail (link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dont-hold-the-phone-ontarios-top-court-says-its-illegal-to-have-cell-in-hand-while-driving/article14584208/)...


Ontario’s top court says it’s illegal to have cell in hand while driving

Ontario’s top court says it’s illegal to hold a cellphone while driving even if it’s not transmitting and no matter how briefly it’s in a driver’s hand.

The Court of Appeal for Ontario released a pair of decisions Friday ordering two people convicted under the Highway Traffic Act for violating the ban on using cellphones while driving.

A lower court judge dismissed Kazemi’s charge, ruling that there must be some “sustained physical holding” in order to convict, but the Appeal Court overturned that finding.

In the other case, Hugo Pizzurro was caught driving with a cellphone in his hand but argued the Crown couldn’t prove it was capable of sending or receiving at the time.

But the Appeal Court concluded the language in the law requiring a capability of sending or receiving applies only to devices other than cellphones as cellphones have that capability built in.

“Moreover, to impose the requirement that a cellphone held by a driver while driving was capable of receiving or transmitting would be unreasonable both for enforcement and for prosecution,” the court ruled.

“The legislature could not have intended that result.”

The Ontario legislature’s purpose in enacting the law was to ensure drivers focus “on one thing and one thing only: driving,” the court wrote, quoting then-Transportation Minister Jim Bradley.

“Road safety is best ensured by a complete prohibition on having a cellphone in one’s hand at all while driving,” the Appeal Court wrote in the Kazemi decision.

“A complete prohibition also best focuses a driver’s undivided attention on driving ... In short, it removes the various ways that road safety and driver attention can be harmed if a driver has a cellphone in his or her hand while driving.”

The Appeal Court made similar comments in the Pizzurro case.

“To hold out the possibility that the driver may escape the prohibition because the cellphone is not shown to be capable of communicating, however temporarily, is to tempt the driver to a course of conduct that risks undermining these objectives,” the court wrote.

Interesting indeed.

[Seth1968]

“To hold out the possibility that the driver may escape the prohibition because the cellphone is not shown to be capable of communicating, however temporarily, is to tempt the driver to a course of conduct that risks undermining these objectives,” the court wrote.

So if I'm reading that right, you can be fined for something you might do. If so, wtf?

Can I be fined for having my dick in my hand, as I might start jerking off?

[Isaiah]

Not sure what the newsworthy part is. Our distracted driving legislation is no different than Ontario's in that regard; if you're spotted with a phone in your hand, you'll receive a ticket. Just the act of holding it is sufficient to indicate intent to use it.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Isaiah
Not sure what the newsworthy part is. Our distracted driving legislation is no different than Ontario's in that regard; if you're spotted with a phone in your hand, you'll receive a ticket. Just the act of holding it is sufficient to indicate intent to use it.
Wasn't sure how similar Alberta's distracted driving law was and besides that, there are non-Alberta based members in these forums that this might be of interest to, no?

[Isaiah]

Sure there are. My reply wasn't meant to criticize your post. Thanks for sharing the info.

[ZenOps]

Smoking gun in hand or powered up cellphone in hand.

Guilty!

[Seth1968]

Mybe I'm out to lunch here, but isn't this some sort of rights violation?

How the heck can I be fined for distracted driving, when I WASN'T distracted driving?

Ya I know, I'm splitting hairs, but still.

[speedog]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Smoking gun in hand or powered up cellphone in hand.

Guilty!
You know it would be interesting to add up all the times I've seen traffic delayed just a bit by someone that's busy with their cell phone when a light turns green.

I am one that can admit I'm guilty of this and I've been working diligently to not touch that cell phone - information at one's finger tips is an enticing little drug for many be it texts, the web or whatever. But I am retraining myself to drive like I did in the 70's when there weren't readily available distractions aside from a simple radio in Dad's 3/4 ton F250 - tougher than it would seem but it's all for the good because I don't want to become that person who caused someone else anguish because of my need to utilize a cell phone while I'm supposed to paying attention to my driving.

[speedog]

Hell, distracted driving can come about from much simpler things than touching a cell phone - I once put the two right side wheels of my old 200SX into a ditch on the Forestry Trunk Road northwest of Calgary while fiddle farting around with an in dash cassette player. Didn't have to clean out my shorts but it was close as I gathered the car back up onto that gravel road - a cell phone, that is just too much tempting candy to too many people.

[triplep]

interesting that you can't hold a cell phone in your hand. From http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/distracteddriving.htm



What activities are not allowed while driving?
talking on a hand-held cell phone
texting/e-mailing
using electronic devices like laptop computers, video games, cameras, video entertainment displays and programming portable audio players (e.g., mp3 players)
manually entering information on GPS units
reading printed material like a book or a magazine
writing, printing or sketching
personal grooming like combing your hair, applying makeup or brushing your teeth
using a 2-way radio or what is commonly referred to as a CB (Citizen’s Band) radio (some exemptions apply)

Weird that you can't hold a phone, it doesn't show as an activity that you aren't allowed to do. You can't talk on your phone or text or send email. But it does not say anywhere that it is prohibited.


What activities are allowed?
We are not talking about penalizing drivers for taking a sip of coffee, chatting with passengers or blowing their nose. We are talking about drivers who decide to put themselves and others at risk by watching movies, browsing for and downloading 'apps', applying makeup or shaving all while trying to navigate through traffic.
These activities are not specifically restricted under the law:
using a cell phone in hands-free mode - this means the device is not held in the driver's hand and is activated by voice or a single touch to the device
using an earphone — if it is used in a hands-free or voice-activated manner
drinking beverages, such as coffee, water or pop
eating a snack
smoking
talking with passengers
listening to a portable audio player – as long as it is set up before you begin driving
calling emergency services, such as 911 with a hand-held cell phone
using 2-way radios or hand-held radios, such as those commonly referred to as CB (Citizen’s Band) radios, when escorting oversized vehicles, to contact one's employer, or when participating in search, rescue and emergency management situations.
permitting the display screen of the following:
a GPS navigation system – as long as the system is affixed to the vehicle and programmed before you begin driving or the system is voice activated. You cannot hold the unit or manually enter information while driving.
a collision avoidance system
a gauge, instrument, device or system that provides information about the vehicle’s systems or the vehicle’s location
a dispatch system for transporting passengers
a logistical transportation tracking system that tracks vehicle location, driver status or the delivery of goods for commercial purposes

I like the calling emergency services, such as 911. I think the cops are confused as well as I recall there have been stories that people calling 911 complaining about a person driving drunk and being told that they should stop talking on the phone because they are breaking the law. According to this, you can drive and talk to 911 on the phone and not be in breach of the law.

[rage2]

What if I buy the new S-Class which has a bunch of self driving functions and the car drives itself and I get pulled over for texting? Can I argue that the car was driving and I wasn't?

[speedog]

Originally posted by triplep
I like the calling emergency services, such as 911. I think the cops are confused as well as I recall there have been stories that people calling 911 complaining about a person driving drunk and being told that they should stop talking on the phone because they are breaking the law. According to this, you can drive and talk to 911 on the phone and not be in breach of the law.

But if you dial out and complete a call using your bluetooth connected hands-free cell phone, are you breaking the law? The combination of my S3 bluetooth connected to my vehicle's radio makes voice activated hands-free operation of my cell phone very easy and even more so with the integrated steering wheel controls and the contact list that my vehicle's stereo downloads off of my S3 (syncs to?) allowing me to access my contacts via my stereo's controls - none of that is illegal in Alberta as best as I can tell.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rage2
What if I buy the new S-Class which has a bunch of self driving functions and the car drives itself and I get pulled over for texting? Can I argue that the car was driving and I wasn't?

This just isn't the S-Class - hell, my dumb cars having been self driving for years now as I doze in and out in the Deerfoot rush hour crawl. Kidding.

[BigDannyCool]

Originally posted by rage2
What if I buy the new S-Class which has a bunch of self driving functions and the car drives itself and I get pulled over for texting? Can I argue that the car was driving and I wasn't?

i guess you would get the ticket and would have to go to court to try to fight it.

[Seth1968]

"No officer. I wasn't distracted driving, I was driving distracted":)

[triplep]

Originally posted by speedog


But if you dial out and complete a call using your bluetooth connected hands-free cell phone, are you breaking the law? The combination of my S3 bluetooth connected to my vehicle's radio makes voice activated hands-free operation of my cell phone very easy and even more so with the integrated steering wheel controls and the contact list that my vehicle's stereo downloads off of my S3 (syncs to?) allowing me to access my contacts via my stereo's controls - none of that is illegal in Alberta as best as I can tell.


No, I was referring to the fact that you according to the website, you can use your cell phone "hand held-device" while driving if you are making a call to emergency services.

I remember when the distracted driving law came out, dispatchers were telling people who were reporting a drunk driver while driving that they are breaking the law. Which when I read that specific "allowed activities" says that legally I am able to use my phone will driving as long as I am calling an emergency number. So what I was saying is dispatch doesn't even know what is allowed and isn't allowed.

But yes, it appears that you aren't breaking any laws if you are using your phone using blue tooth. Which to me is weird? So are they saying that holding your phone to your ear and talking through is the 'distracting' part? Or is it the fact that you are talking on the phone that is the distracting part. Makes no sense to me, as I would think that the talking part would be more distracting than having one hand on the wheel, one hand holding your phone.

[gretz]

If every call is an "emergency"... How can they ticket you?

[triplep]

Originally posted by gretz
If every call is an "emergency"... How can they ticket you?


It says 'emergency services'.

IF some how you could persuade the officer that calling emergency services = calling your wife because you need to bump uglies with her then maybe.

[thetransporter]

are you allowed to hold a calculator?

[clem24]

Originally posted by rage2
What if I buy the new S-Class which has a bunch of self driving functions and the car drives itself and I get pulled over for texting? Can I argue that the car was driving and I wasn't?

Well the proper way to do it is to scoot over to the passenger seat, complete your call/text, and jump back into the driver's seat.

[Modelexis]

These cell phone laws are... getting out of hand.

:dunno:

[gretz]

No CB radios... but if you are driving with an over-sized payload or a transport truck, you can gab on them all you want as it is safer in these vehicles? Or it is less distracting because of who you are talking to?

smoking? I can look for my smokes, pull one out, find a lighter, light said smoke... but cant drive with one hand?

I can talk with passengers (thank goodness as that would be a long drive)... but the minute I take one hand off the wheel, I'm a hazard > as that is the same as talking on the phone essentially...

I can risk my "safety" only when someone else is...

"Im reporting a distracted driver talking on their phone" lol... 2 wrongs make a right or magically make it safe?

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by triplep
interesting that you can't hold a cell phone in your hand. From http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/distracteddriving.htm


Seems ambiguous

[FraserB]

Originally posted by gretz
No CB radios... but if you are driving with an over-sized payload or a transport truck, you can gab on them all you want as it is safer in these vehicles? Or it is less distracting because of who you are talking to?

smoking? I can look for my smokes, pull one out, find a lighter, light said smoke... but cant drive with one hand?



Where does it state you must keep both hands on the wheel?

As for the guys running escort, it's pretty critical that they be in contact with the loaded truck. And they probably have a tiny bit more training than other drivers on the road.

[gretz]

Originally posted by FraserB


Where does it state you must keep both hands on the wheel?

As for the guys running escort, it's pretty critical that they be in contact with the loaded truck. And they probably have a tiny bit more training than other drivers on the road.

It is almost implied lol... You can talk to a passenger, but can't talk to an individual if you have something in one hand (ie, talking on the phone)

I can smoke all i want, one hand off the wheel, ashing accurately, lighting said smoke with attention on the flame and where the cig is... But cant hold a device...

They "probably" do... Is there a course to take on this? Certified CB radio communications escort training 101?

[toor]

Originally posted by gretz
They "probably" do... Is there a course to take on this? Certified CB radio communications escort training 101?

Commercial radio license holders (basically anyone in a company vehicle with a radio) and amateur radio operators are allowed to use a handheld or mobile radio. It's a relatively small section of the population, and they have a good reason to be safe about it as either their job depends on it, or it's a hobby that they're passionate about. I've never been run off the road on my motorcycle by someone keying the mic on their two-way; can't quite say the same about texting teens, chatty soccer moms and Mr. Important businessman...

[speedog]

Originally posted by gretz
It is almost implied lol... You can talk to a passenger, but can't talk to an individual if you have something in one hand (ie, talking on the phone)

I can smoke all i want, one hand off the wheel, ashing accurately, lighting said smoke with attention on the flame and where the cig is... But cant hold a device...

They "probably" do... Is there a course to take on this? Certified CB radio communications escort training 101?
Dunno. If you drift out of your lane while attempting to get rid of the ashes off of your lit cigarette, don't you think that might warrant a distracted driving ticket? It's a law that's quite broad in it's coverage and you can sure as hell bet that if you're busier with your cigarette than you are with your driving, then you'll most likely garner a little bit more attention from the police officer in the next lane over. We're talking Alberta here now.

As far as Ontario, it would appear that things a maybe a bit different.

[gretz]

Originally posted by speedog

Dunno. If you drift out of your lane while attempting to get rid of the ashes off of your lit cigarette, don't you think that might warrant a distracted driving ticket?

Yes guys, I completely agree that cb radios are important for the people that use them... an example of having something in your hand that warrants a ticket (but there's that exemption for some, I know)


I don't smoke, but it was an example to show exactly what i'm getting at. If you have a phone in your hand, talking on it for example, and you drive accordingly, do you deserve a ticket? Maybe not, but if you drift out of your lane while on the phone, for whatever reason, then yes, ticket away.

The fact they point out that "you can talk to passengers" is kind of funny. Wait until it is an exemption for some

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by Modelexis
These cell phone laws are... getting out of hand.

:dunno:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_chvKNYtmvt0/TUO4643zUgI/AAAAAAAAADM/2pKa047JeS0/s320/csi_miami_yeah.jpg

[speedog]

Originally posted by gretz
Yes guys, I completely agree that cb radios are important for the people that use them... an example of having something in your hand that warrants a ticket (but there's that exemption for some, I know)


I don't smoke, but it was an example to show exactly what i'm getting at. If you have a phone in your hand, talking on it for example, and you drive accordingly, do you deserve a ticket? Maybe not, but if you drift out of your lane while on the phone, for whatever reason, then yes, ticket away.

The fact they point out that "you can talk to passengers" is kind of funny. Wait until it is an exemption for some
For some people, talking to passengers and driving is a challenge. Hell, I'm still trying to get my 19 year old to realize that his hands and head aren't connected when doing a shoulder check.

[toor]

Friend of mine and his wife died on their motorcycle when a guy in the oncoming lane turned his head to talk with a passenger and crossed the centerline. Anyway, these laws are about curbing the idiocy of the average impatient, inattentive, ADD driver flying along in mental autopilot, thereby reducing risk for everyone around them.

[clem24]

Originally posted by toor
Friend of mine and his wife died on their motorcycle when a guy in the oncoming lane turned his head to talk with a passenger and crossed the centerline. Anyway, these laws are about curbing the idiocy of the average impatient, inattentive, ADD driver flying along in mental autopilot, thereby reducing risk for everyone around them.

This is what I really don't understand.. Why do people feel a need to do this WHEN DRIVING?!? They somehow feel they need to make eye contact. And then there are some people who like to use hand gestures, and take both hands off the wheel!

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by clem24


This is what I really don't understand.. Why do people feel a need to do this WHEN DRIVING?!? They somehow feel they need to make eye contact. And then there are some people who like to use hand gestures, and take both hands off the wheel!
Same reason you have people who don't make eye contact even when there are no distractions and they are having a one-on-one conversation.