Two Ottawa Motorcyclists Get Lots of Demerits

[schocker]

This is much more amusing than the typical, someone was doing 150 at 2 am on Highway 2 with no one around and it is front page alberta news and on all the tv stations :rofl:

229 total demerit points issued to 2 Ottawa motorcyclists



Two Ottawa motorcyclists were each fined more than $10,000 and each given more than 100 demerit points after west Quebec police say they found evidence of dozens of driving infractions on a personal video recorder.

MRC des Collines regional police said they arrested two men, aged 26 and 29, on Saturday at 3 p.m. after witnesses reported seeing two motorcyclists driving at high speeds and passing dangerously down Highway 105 near the community of Farrelton, in the municipality of La Peche.

Police intercepted the two motorcylists near the police station in Wakefield, Que.
Motorcycle speeding west Quebec

Police seized a video camera from one of two motorcyclists that showed the two speeding and driving dangerously. (MRC des Collines)

At the time of the stop, police said one of the motorcyclists attempted to conceal a video camera, but police seized it. Police say the video contained evidence of several dozen driving infractions committed that day.

The 26-year-old driver was issued tickets for 21 infractions, fined $11,268 and given 116 demerit points.

The 29-year-old driver was also issued tickets for 21 infractions, fined $10,968 and given 113 demerit points.

Police said they would also be charged in court with dangerous driving.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/229-total-demerit-points-issued-to-2-ottawa-motorcyclists-1.2054941

[speedog]

One thing to be learned from all of this - don't have on hand, video of your own antics especially if illegal? :dunno:

Would not some of this be arguable in the courts although I suppose the video time stamps would probably incriminate those charged.

[colinxx235]

so now police can seize your personal property and review it, then add on tickets....

[FraserB]

Originally posted by colinxx235
so now police can seize your personal property and review it, then add on tickets....

It's called evidence, usually when the police are investigating a crime they collect it.

[shakalaka]

Without getting too much into it, I will say that these guys will have tons of potential Charter defenses available to them. I would be very surprised if the video evidence is deemed admissible.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by FraserB


It's called evidence, usually when the police are investigating a crime they collect it.


Okay, well let's say today you got a ticket for being on your cellphone while driving.

How do you feel if the cop confiscated your phone and went through all your messages/calls to support the evidence that you were using it at the time. Depending on the person maybe they come across something illegal or leading to illegal activities on the device. Then lay more charges on you.

[speedog]

I believe they need a warrant to seize something but if the police suspect you might tamper with/destroy whatever is on the recording device then they can seize the recording device right away. They'll still need a warrant to view the files but that's probably easy enough to get now that they have your recording device.

[z24_wheels]

Depending on the person maybe they come across something illegal or leading to illegal activities on the device. Then lay more charges on you.

Seriously?

The only problem I have with this is if the police come across something that they perceive is illegal.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by z24_wheels


Seriously?

The only problem I have with this is if the police come across something that they perceive is illegal.


Well Fraser was being a sarcastic d-bag so that was my response.

Cop takes your cellphone and let's say he sees a text to purchase some weed, sees a video of you speeding or friends speeding. Photos of stunting etc etc

Would you not feel violated if a cop just went through everything?

[speedog]

Back to the topic at hand, how dumb were these two guys to be doing shit like this at 3:00PM on a Saturday afternoon and then even dumber, there are some reports that they went down a dead-end road in an attempt to escape the police that were following them. Buffoons.

[z24_wheels]

I would feel violated - but also understand at the same time they are catching criminals through these means.

If you have nothing to hide...

I guess I am just a sheep though lol.

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by colinxx235



Well Fraser was being a sarcastic d-bag so that was my response.

Cop takes your cellphone and let's say he sees a text to purchase some weed, sees a video of you speeding or friends speeding. Photos of stunting etc etc

Would you not feel violated if a cop just went through everything?
Fraser was right. The video footage is evidence that an offense had been commited. Its their right to sieze evidence as it pertains to the offense.

Im not sure if their is a specific section under the Distracted Driving Law that allows for seizure of a cell phone if cited for using it while driving, but it is different. USING the phone is the offense. The officer would have no reason to sieze the physical phone as that is not the evidence of the offence. Only reasonable grounds to believe the person was using the phone at the time.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by colinxx235
so now police can seize your personal property and review it, then add on tickets....

I think cops are allowed to seize anything that they believe was used in the commission of an offense. Whether or not it's ultimately admissible in court is up to the judge.

If you're stupid enough to video yourself doing something criminal, AND have the recording device on your person when you get arrested, then well.. you truly deserve what you get.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by colinxx235
Cop takes your cellphone and let's say he sees a text to purchase some weed, sees a video of you speeding or friends speeding. Photos of stunting etc etc

Would you not feel violated if a cop just went through everything?

This was ruled on by an Ontario court and was upheld on appeal. Not sure if the SC has ruled yet.

It was ruled that police could search an un-protected phone for evidence relating to an offense since the texts and pictures were readily available to other users. In the relevant case (robbery), the police looked through the phone and found pictures of a gun and cash, as well as texts regarding the stolen property.

I'd say this ruling is extremely relevant to the seizure of the video camera and the subsequent review of its footage. The initial seizure most likely 100% fine since the officer observed the individual attempting to conceal an item that could contain direct evidence of the alleged acts. The review of the video could then be supported in part by the cell phone ruling. The officers performed a cursory examination on an unsecured electronic device whose contents were freely available to other users.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by colinxx235
Okay, well let's say today you got a ticket for being on your cellphone while driving.

How do you feel if the cop confiscated your phone and went through all your messages/calls to support the evidence that you were using it at the time. Depending on the person maybe they come across something illegal or leading to illegal activities on the device. Then lay more charges on you.

Fine with me.

What if someone steals an iPhone and police find a video on it of him raping a 12 year old girl?

Should he be only charged with theft of a phone?

[swak]

These fines WON'T hold up in court. Any half-assed lawyer will be able to fight for unlawful seizure of evidence, unless the biker willingly have his camera to the officer, which I doubt

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally posted by swak
These fines WON'T hold up in court. Any half-assed lawyer will be able to fight for unlawful seizure of evidence, unless the biker willingly have his camera to the officer, which I doubt

I like how you don't bother reading and just leap to conclusions.

[swak]

I just read the papers half-assed write up this AM.

EDIT: just reread, whatd I miss?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[lilmira]

If there are complaints of someone driving a similar looking vehicle at the time, then I think it is reasonable for them to go through the footage, not so much with just one infraction happened just moment ago.

[gretz]

Originally posted by FraserB


It was ruled that police could search an un-protected phone for evidence relating to an offense since the texts and pictures were readily available to other users. In the relevant case (robbery), the police looked through the phone and found pictures of a gun and cash, as well as texts regarding the stolen property.

I'd say this ruling is extremely relevant to the seizure of the video camera and the subsequent review of its footage. The initial seizure most likely 100% fine since the officer observed the individual attempting to conceal an item that could contain direct evidence of the alleged acts.

What constitutes a phone a being "unprotected"?

Would someone have to unlock their phone for an officer without a warrant? I know saying to an officer > "do you have a warrant" never goes over well lol...

hypothetically, if you get pulled over for any reason whatsoever, you can have all of your shit seized if they are "possibly part of the investigation"..

"Sir, you didn't signal there, were you distracted? I'll take your phone to confirm (and browse anything else I want), as well as your car camera... On your cam, the audio will be evidence... Oh, your camera showed you rolling a few stop signs... etc etc... "

Seems like they can seize whatever they want really... What is a civilian to say... no? That always goes over brilliantly lol

[Shlade]

I've noticed a lot of the time cops throw in stupid tickets to get some OT going to court over it.

Really a piss off in every way you wasting your time fighting a ticket you never should of gotten in the first place.

I doubt much of this will hold up in court.

Gretz... A lot of people think police are the almighty power and what they say goes. Let's be honest here a lot of cops push their luck and don't know their law themselves. I for one know and have dealt with a lot of cops who sometimes have no idea what their charging the person for or what they can get them for until they go through a bunch of things in their notebook and find things they can nail you on (other than the repeated obvious ones they deal with all the time) there's a reason cops stay in their cars longer than they should on a traffic Stop (either waiting for a tow truck or looking up what they can nail you with lol)

A cop cannot seize your car or search your car under his word being "well I have possible grounds to this and that" suck it... Call him out and have a Sargent come there.

As a man who has nothing to hide and a man who does not want any embarrassment or a stranger throwing around shit in my car and violating my rights I wouldn't allow anybody to search my car. And if I was guilty and a total asshat with weapons in my car I sure as hell wouldn't want anybody rustling up my car haha