Steroid users

[89coupe]

Man, I can't believe how many guys I see on the juice these days, its redonkulous.

Last night at the gym I saw 5 obvious users. Three were Asian, two were brown guys.

All of them were in their early 20's

All of them look silly big.

Whats the fascination with steroids?

Are users not concerned about the fatal health concerns?

Discuss.

[max_boost]

It's so obvious and then they deny it and I'm like lol :D ( I really don't care )

[Hallowed_point]

Because ed hardy bro.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Whats the fascination with steroids?

They can make you hyooge with much less effort than it takes naturally?



Originally posted by 89coupe


Are users not concerned about the fatal health concerns?

Fatal, where is the science Dr. Brad Taylor? I think you should lay off the Dr. Oz


Originally posted by 89coupe


Discuss.

There really is no point discussing the use of steroids with people such as your self. That said, I do look forward to watching this thread unfold.


Originally posted by Hallowed_point
Because ed hardy bro.

Please don't forget Dom Rebel and Tap Out.

[swak]

I'm writing my Masters thesis on substance use/doping in sport.

Without going into much detail, steroids have no place in sport for a myriad of reasons, physical health concerns are laughable - ie, almost non-existant.

On a personal level though, who cares?
I mean, I wouldn't, but that's because for my sport endeavors, itd have no benefit to me, and may possibly have a negative impact on my abilities in sport.

Steriod use is pretty tame - its the marijuana of rec. Drugs haha... When you get into EPOs as a recreational athlete (or just as someone interested in physical fitness at the gym), then I'd be worried haha.

[supe]

I guess steroid use is kind of like the ricers of the car world.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by swak
I'm writing my Masters thesis on substance use/doping in sport.

Without going into much detail, steroids have no place in sport for a myriad of reasons...



This interests me, please elaborate.

[swak]

In short:
- Fair play
- upholding the positive public image of sport (ie educational to youth)
- Social/psychological health

You can say but if you govern it it'll even out the playing field, but there'll always be people whose genetics take to it better and have better access to different drugs from sponsors etc.

I think the laws need to be changed to be harsher and more lenient in some areas, but in the end there's no place for epos, and other substances of the like in pro sports.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by swak

- upholding the positive public image of sport (ie educational to youth)


I figured you would mention something like this. Unfortunately, this standard is very much a double edged sword. Society attempts to teach children to play fair and by the rules. But at the same time we crown winners and live in a world that if you aren't first you are last. When the rewards for winning are infinite (recognition, fame, sponsorship, money) there will always be people who will do anything to win. Unfortunately in sports this usually means taking steroids or performance enhancing drugs. Society as a whole looks down on steroids but we love guys like Arnold, Sylvester and Lance (before he was crucified). Are they positive or negative influences on the public image of sport and success? They achieved their success by cheating and we idolize and adorn them.

[colinxx235]

almost non-existent health concerns you say...


Should tell that to my deceased buddy, didn't even make it to 25.

[AudiPWR]

Many people ask me what kind of steroids I take, and I just laugh.. It's funny how many people don't realize that a shit ton of hard work and dedication can get you looking mighty swole. It pisses me off because I have worked 12hrs a week for 10 years to get to the level I'm at and people pass it off as steriod use.

That being said, it's easy to see where the desire to use comes from. Small guy who has been training for a year or two sees a guy like me and knows there is a shortcut to get there other than training for another 5-6 years as hard as I do..

On that note, anybody heard of SARMS?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by colinxx235
almost non-existent health concerns you say...


Should tell that to my deceased buddy, didn't even make it to 25.

Just to clarify, I have never used anything for performance enhancement beyond 6 or 8 weeks of ephedrine this summer which did exactly what I needed, got me over the initial hump and into regular fitness building.

Now that that's out of the way, water can kill you is you ABUSE it.

[89coupe]

Heart Disease
Liver Disease
Tumors
Gyno
Acne
Depression
Hair loss

Usually shows up later in life, but I guess if you don't care about living a healthy life beyond 50...:dunno:

[KRyn]

Originally posted by 89coupe

Usually

Quantify usually with some real scientifically based information.

Usually after I fart it smells, approximately 60% of the time this happens every time.

It has been proven over and over again that the prolonged use / exposure to numerous chemical compounds is harmful to humans. I don't doubt that the prolonged use of large amounts of steroids and similar compounds is not healthy. To simply state that any use will have fatal effects is ridiculous. Why would medical doctors prescribe something that would lead to imminent death? Did you know that many of the conditions / symptoms you listed show up in those that abuse alcohol?

Whats the fascination with alcohol?

Are users not concerned about the fatal health concerns?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by max_boost
It's so obvious and then they deny it and I'm like lol :D ( I really don't care )

Thats the other strange phenomenon about steroid users, they vehemently deny it, why?

Almost as if they are ashamed or embarrassed.

Probably the reason why they did them to begin with, extreme insecurity issues.

Look at Lance Armstrong, the guy swore on his own mothers grave he didnt' use PEDS, so sad.

[swak]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Heart Disease
Liver Disease
Tumors
Gyno
Acne
Depression
Hair loss

Usually shows up later in life, but I guess if you don't care about living a healthy life beyond 50...:dunno:

To what extent are these relevant under normal doses of anabolic steroids though? Take a look - you'll see its not much worse than the effects of creatine, protein etc on you.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by swak


To what extent are these relevant under normal doses of anabolic steroids though? Take a look - you'll see its not much worse than the effects of creatine, protein etc on you.

Haha, show me one real medical journal that says that.

[swak]

I'm not saying protein powder causes the above, I could have said broccoli and tooth paste.

But ill gladly show you that your logic re steroids is bs.

Its reasons that drugs aren't all that physically harmful to athletes that it is so such a controversial topic in acadmia re: banning and allowing drugs in sport.

[Disoblige]

What does "normal doses of anabolic steroids" even mean? lol.

[swak]

Originally posted by Disoblige
What does "normal doses of anabolic steroids" even mean? lol.

Prescribed dosages...
Use not abuse:D

Ie taking. 30 scoops of creatine or two eahc day - one behaviour is more normal than the other

[supe]

Originally posted by KRyn


I figured you would mention something like this. Unfortunately, this standard is very much a double edged sword. Society attempts to teach children to play fair and by the rules. But at the same time we crown winners and live in a world that if you aren't first you are last. When the rewards for winning are infinite (recognition, fame, sponsorship, money) there will always be people who will do anything to win. Unfortunately in sports this usually means taking steroids or performance enhancing drugs. Society as a whole looks down on steroids but we love guys like Arnold, Sylvester and Lance (before he was crucified). Are they positive or negative influences on the public image of sport and success? They achieved their success by cheating and we idolize and adorn them.

This is a flawed argument. You're trying to justify cheating. Yes cheating happens, but cheating is cheating. Yes people love to crown winners, but only winners that play by the rules, winners that work hard and are skilled in their craft, not losers who have to cheat to win.

I also disagree with your "if you're not first your last" argument. Look at Iginla, has never won a cup but is adorned and is financially successful.

Within sports, play by the rules, outside of sport do as you like.

[01RedDX]

.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Heart Disease
Liver Disease
Tumors
Gyno
Acne
Depression
Hair loss

Usually shows up later in life, but I guess if you don't care about living a healthy life beyond 50...:dunno:

Some might disagree.

VIiIKB7uDCc

[89coupe]

Originally posted by swak
I'm not saying protein powder causes the above, I could have said broccoli and tooth paste.

But ill gladly show you that your logic re steroids is bs.

Its reasons that drugs aren't all that physically harmful to athletes that it is so such a controversial topic in acadmia re: banning and allowing drugs in sport.

Yes, please show me your medical documents.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by supe


This is a flawed argument. You're trying to justify cheating.


I am not trying to justify it, simply rationalize it and put it into context for debate.


Originally posted by supe

Yes people love to crown winners, but only winners that play by the rules, winners that work hard and are skilled in their craft, not losers who have to cheat to win.


Are you aware of how rampant the use of steroids are in sports and the Olympics? We crown cheaters all the time, I don't agree with this I merely realize it is the way things are.


Originally posted by supe

I also disagree with your "if you're not first your last" argument. Look at Iginla, has never won a cup but is adorned and is financially successful.


What do you think Iginal would or wouldn't do to win a Stanley Cup? If he could be guaranteed one by simply taking a pill would he do it? People want to win, it's in our very nature. To what extent people are willing to go varies.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Pretty sure marijuana is the marijuana of rec. drugs, since it doesn't shrink your nuts or dissolve your liver.

There are actually studies now linking marijuana use (especially when used at younger ages) to schizophrenia.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/07/25/marijuana-use-by-teens-linked-to-permanent-brain-abnormalities-later-in-life-u-s-study/

[89coupe]

Originally posted by KRyn


Are you aware of how rampant the use of steroids are in sports and the Olympics? We crown cheaters all the time, I don't agree with this I merely realize it is the way things are.



What do you think Iginal would or wouldn't do to win a Stanley Cup? If he could be guaranteed one by simply taking a pill would he do it? People want to win, it's in our very nature. To what extent people are willing to go varies.

I can't imagine the insecurities one must feel knowing they had to use PEDS to win, it would be overwhelming.

The mental issues are insane, constantly having to lie and make up stories.

Such a sad existence.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Just to clarify, I have never used anything for performance enhancement beyond 6 or 8 weeks of ephedrine this summer which did exactly what I needed, got me over the initial hump and into regular fitness building.

Now that that's out of the way, water can kill you is you ABUSE it.


Haha yes, anyone who is curious. This sure as fuck wasn't a one cycle usage... But none the less, caused a heart failure in a very young guy.

I never touched the stuff, but sure was tempted with seeing the short cuts they provide.

[littledan]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Pretty sure marijuana is the marijuana of rec. drugs, since it doesn't shrink your nuts or dissolve your liver.

also just to play devil's advocate, marijuana use long term has shown a correlation to reduced testosterone levels fyi. so maybe mary jane and test enanthate go hand in hand!

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I can't imagine the insecurities one must feel knowing they had to use PEDS to win, it would be overwhelming.

The mental issues are insane, constantly having to lie and make up stories.

Such a sad existence.

It isn't an issue of insecurity. It comes down to wondering why bother competing clean if all of your competition juices.

Do you really think power lifters, wrestlers, swimmers, football players, sprinters etc are 100% clean? They just know how to properly time their use so that its not detectable on the day of the competition.

Watch the doc I posted and then return to the thread.

Here is another one worth watching.

jbeb6qB6KPo

[spikerS]

I personally have never once taken steroids. A few of my ex-team mates used to. I will be honest, I would have taken them, I was just too afraid to. They were too new in the 90's to us, and hardly knew anything about them.

I will say that they do offer some amazing results for minimal effort. And I will admit that I was jealous of the gains they were making while I worked my ass off and got 1/10th the results.

IMO, to each their own. If they are that infatuated with body image, they got bigger issues than injections or popping pills.

[swak]

Originally posted by supe


I also disagree with your "if you're not first your last" argument. Look at Iginla, has never won a cup but is adorned and is financially successful.

Within sports, play by the rules, outside of sport do as you like.

The #1 quoted reason for drug use in sport is the pressure on athletes to win, play to win vs play to play - which is what sport was designed around.

There is a huge field of research on this - keep in mind, most athletes are adorned by many - look at strategic penalties in hockey, and players whose main rolesare to fight and stir up the game. This happens. Doesn't always lead to drug use though. But leads to health concerns

And 89coupe, since you're a university graduate - look up in sportsdiscus if you're really that desparate to know more about it. No legitimate article will say severely bad concerns re steriods... Sure those side effects have been noted - but mostly so on abusers of steroids. Which like abuse of anyrthing isn't good.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by spikers
I personally have never once taken steroids. A few of my ex-team mates used to. I will be honest, I would have taken them, I was just too afraid to. They were too new in the 90's to us, and hardly knew anything about them.

I will say that they do offer some amazing results for minimal effort. And I will admit that I was jealous of the gains they were making while I worked my ass off and got 1/10th the results.

IMO, to each their own. If they are that infatuated with body image, they got bigger issues than injections or popping pills.

Well those are the most fucked up, the guys and girls who take them purely for looks.

They have real issues.

[swak]

Originally posted by 89coupe


Well those are the most fucked up, the guys and girls who take them purely for looks.

They have real issues.

120% yes!
Aesthetic health is a huge problem as well though! .. Magazines etc all promote it, hard to stay away

[01RedDX]

.

[supe]

Originally posted by swak


The #1 quoted reason for drug use in sport is the pressure on athletes to win, play to win vs play to play - which is what sport was designed around.



But the point is that PED are against the rules it doesn't matter why they do it or how many people are doing it, its still irrational justification.

There are people that rob banks and get rich, does that mean we should legalize bank robberies? I feel pressure to rob a bank because I need to get ahead in life.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by colinxx235
almost non-existent health concerns you say...


Should tell that to my deceased buddy, didn't even make it to 25.

There's a difference between using AAS and abusing AAS. Obviously it's a different story if the user has/had any underlying issues. A perfectly normal, healthy individual will experience no health issues if and only if they know what they're doing, which 99% of the population who uses, does not.


Originally posted by AudiPWR
On that note, anybody heard of SARMS?

SARMS = hyped garbage.


Originally posted by 89coupe
Heart Disease
Liver Disease
Tumors
Gyno
Acne
Depression
Hair loss

Usually shows up later in life, but I guess if you don't care about living a healthy life beyond 50...:dunno:

Like I mentioned above, difference between use and abuse. There are a numerous amount of individuals whom I personally know that are well in to their 50's and 60's who have used AAS in the past(some for personal use and some for competition) and are currently on TRT, and they've yet to experience any major health issues. They get their blood levels checked regularly and didn't dump shit in to their body unknowingly. This thread is full of nothing but ignorance. I don't advocate the use of AAS nor do I use myself, but at least educate yourself on the topic before making all these claims.

Once you're on juice, you're on it for life. I'm not saying that steroids are safe and healthy, but there are proper uses for them. Steroids actually saved my friend's life, so I don't get where all the negativity is coming from. However, I do agree that they've been tainted by all the misinformed, young individuals who use them for recreational purposes or just to "look good".

[swak]

Originally posted by supe


But the point is that PED are against the rules it doesn't matter why they do it or how many people are doing it, its still irrational justification.

There are people that rob banks and get rich, does that mean we should legalize bank robberies? I feel pressure to rob a bank because I need to get ahead in life.

Its against the rules, but people still do it for reasons of pressures to win.

Just like tripping is against the rules - resulting in a penalty in hockey - but it still intentionally happens in strategic situations... Ie sometimes its worth it to take a 2min penalty vs having a goood chance for the other team to score.

[speedog]

Originally posted by sputnik
Do you really think power lifters, wrestlers, swimmers, football players, sprinters etc are 100% clean? They just know how to properly time their use so that its not detectable on the day of the competition.
The problem is that varsity level athletes are subject to random testing and not necessarily the day of a competition - one fail and you're banned for life. Now some may be willing to take the risk but many are not.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Tej.S


There's a difference between using AAS and abusing AAS. Obviously it's a different story if the user has/had any underlying issues. A perfectly normal, healthy individual will experience no health issues if and only if they know what they're doing, which 99% of the population who uses, does not.



SARMS = hyped garbage.



Like I mentioned above, difference between use and abuse. There are a numerous amount of individuals whom I personally know that are well in to their 50's and 60's who have used AAS in the past(some for personal use and some for competition) and are currently on TRT, and they've yet to experience any major health issues. They get their blood levels checked regularly and didn't dump shit in to their body unknowingly. This thread is full of nothing but ignorance. I don't advocate the use of AAS nor do I use myself, but at least educate yourself on the topic before making all these claims.

Once you're on juice, you're on it for life. I'm not saying that steroids are safe and healthy, but there are proper uses for them. Steroids actually saved my friend's life, so I don't get where all the negativity is coming from. However, I do agree that they've been tainted by all the misinformed, young individuals who use them for recreational purposes or just to "look good".

If you are 50 years or younger, you are abusing if you are taking steroids, because a normal male is producing plenty of testosterone to sustain a normal existence.

Your test levels don't start dropping until your 50's.

So guys in their 20's who are boosting their testosterone levels are abusing, and when they stop, thats when shit really goes down hill.

[Disoblige]

People who take roids IMO are just as bad as people who do lipo.

[ArjayAquino]

Originally posted by supe
I guess steroid use is kind of like the ricers of the car world.

Synthol would be a better example of "ricing" out since steroids give you strength as well as size.

Synthol user:
http://planetivy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/syntol.jpg

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Disoblige
People who take roids IMO are just as bad as people who do lipo.

Worse.

At least with Lipo you only risk your life once under the knife.

With steroids you risk your life everyday you take them.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by speedog

The problem is that varsity level athletes are subject to random testing and not necessarily the day of a competition - one fail and you're banned for life. Now some may be willing to take the risk but many are not.


Please correct me if I am wrong but anyone who chooses to compete in a federation that adheres to WADA testing standards is eligible to be tested both before and after a competition

[speedog]

Originally posted by KRyn
Please correct me if I am wrong but anyone who chooses to compete in a federation that adheres to WADA testing standards is eligible to be tested both before and after a competition.
That I do not know but the risk of being banned for life is enough of a deterrent for many.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by 89coupe


If you are 50 years or younger, you are abusing if you are taking steroids, because a normal male is producing plenty of testosterone to sustain a normal existence.

Your test levels don't start dropping until your 50's.

So guys in their 20's who are boosting their testosterone levels are abusing, and when they stop, thats when shit really goes down hill.

Your test levels actually start dropping mid-late 20's lol. I do agree that the individuals you're referring to are idiots for doing something without proper knowledge, but it doesn't mean that steroids are the object to be vilified.


Originally posted by speedog

That I do not know but the risk of being banned for life is enough of a deterrent for many.

Lol, or so you think.

[speedog]

Here's the U of C's statement on the use of banned drugs - link (http://www.ucalgary.com/pubs/calendar/current/n.html).

Now because this is not my world, banned drugs and all such things as being discussed in this thread, I can not say how one can or can not cheat the system like some have suggested can be done. Can it be done, possibly but is the reward worth the risk especially for those that have national, international and/or Olympic amateur sporting goals or scholarships riding on being clean.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Tej.S


Your test levels actually start dropping mid-late 20's lol. I do agree that the individuals you're referring to are idiots for doing something without proper knowledge, but it doesn't mean that steroids are the object to be vilified.



Lol, or so you think.

Let me refraise that, your test levels are just fine till your late 50's.

[89coupe]

My biggest question is why do recreational steroid users lie about using them?

Like flat out deny it, and if you question them they get extremely aggitated and almost angry.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 89coupe
My biggest question is why do recreational steroid users lie about using them?

Like flat out deny it, and if you question them they get extremely aggitated and almost angry.

Roid rage? :rofl:

I don't know though, no one wants to admit to cheating? Personally, I have zero interest in "faking" it, which is what I think you are doing if you're using them for gains in either strength or physique.

Would I do them, controlled and properly administered, in by 50's or 60's? I can't honestly answer that. At this point I would say not but, who knows what 20 years will bring.

When they are being used therapeautically (and safely) to treat injuries or damage then I don't see the big deal, regardless of age. But it's readily apparent when something is, or is not, medicinal in purpose.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by 89coupe
My biggest question is why do recreational steroid users lie about using them?

Like flat out deny it, and if you question them they get extremely aggitated and almost angry.
Because there is a stigma attached to using roids.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Disoblige

Because there is a stigma attached to using roids.

What is that stigma?

[Disoblige]

Pretty obvious, no? People look down on others who use roids because it's unnatural, and they believe that there are way more negatives than positives.

So when asked, they feel embarrassed and/or immediately think you are attacking them instead of simply asking a question.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by 89coupe
My biggest question is why do recreational steroid users lie about using them?

Like flat out deny it, and if you question them they get extremely aggitated and almost angry.

For the majority of these users, it could be a number of things, stigma(as mentioned), ego, perhaps they're sponsored? Also, I think age plays a big role in this too. It's usually younger guys who lie about usage. 90% of the older guys(late 30's+) in my gym would tell you their stack if you just asked lol. There was one big mofo at my previous gym who was like 6'6~ and weighed in at 300lbs+ lol, looked menacing as fuck, but was actually the nicest guy if you spoke to him.

I personally don't understand the whole point in lying if you use AAS, but you don't compete. If it's for personal use, then who gives a fuck? Like I said though, I personally think it mostly has to do with ego.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tej.S

I personally don't understand the whole point in lying if you use AAS, but you don't compete. If it's for personal use, then who gives a fuck? Like I said though, I personally think it mostly has to do with ego.

I understand it. Like I said, I have been around enough people that did them.

I would say that the vast majority (75-80%) of the people I encountered had confidence issues, especially with women. A good chunk of them were picked on as kids and through school. They watched a lot of porn, and got it in their head that guys got the women when they were buff. These are the guys you would see on muscle beach, or in small body building contests that don't have the budget for testing. These are the guys that almost without exception end up abusing them and end up dead or with serious health issues.

another roughly 15% are the guys I saw as team mates. They didn't care so much what they looked like. These guys were hyper aggressive, and wanted to be able to throw their opponents around. These guys looked like the guys you see on the world's strongest man competition. Not really buff, but look like the hulk. Just big mass and insane strength. This group is usually pretty under control with usage, but of course there are those that get into trouble. Usually these guys end up OK because they are monitored pretty well by medical professionals.

The last roughly 10% are legitimate users for medical reasons. They have injuries or other medical reasons to use them. These people are usually on them long term, and see the benefits of them in the gym. these people can get into trouble with them as well, but then their doctors can see the signs when they renew prescriptions and can change things up.

Ego is not a big factor in it as far as I can tell. I mean, it plays it's role, no question, but it is not the biggest one.

As for lying about their usage, there is a huge stigmatisim around them. Look at the disgraced athletes. Ben Johnson, Mark Mcguire, Barry Bonds, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chris Benoit, Marion Jones, the list goes on. All of these people were demonized in the media, shown that they were rule breakers and cheaters, and so the stigma associated with steroids became a bad thing. So, it is kept quiet, because to admit it, would bring them shame, as it did all these athletes. It would make them feel less of a person, and for that huge group of people with confidence issues, it is something they will do their best to avoid.

[Tej.S]

I agree with most of what you said Spikers, but I disagree with your last paragraph. Take a look at Bostin Lloyd, and the mass amount of respect he gained when he came clean about his usage, regardless of the fact that he competes.

[spikerS]

I am not too familiar with who he is, as I don't really go out of my way to follow the type.

But good on him for coming clean. I believe that there is a time and a place for them, body building being one of them. I mean, the whole idea is to get big and lean. other instances like professional sports, I don't like them in.

I do think that there is too much negativity around steroids, instead of examining the use on a situation basis.

[swak]

Originally posted by KRyn



Please correct me if I am wrong but anyone who chooses to compete in a federation that adheres to WADA testing standards is eligible to be tested both before and after a competition

Yup, true...

Before, after, off-season, or any random day...

This is part of being an athlete...
You also need to log where/when you are at all times...
So they can test you and connect suspicious dots.

So say you're at your sisters wedding, they can pull you aside and say piss in this cup now. If you refuse its counted as a failed test - so you gotta.
They literally watch you piss in the cup too - its not like the dr's office testing where you go to a bathroom and pee...
They come in with you (controversial part) and watch the urine leave the genitals into cup.

[Tej.S]

Originally posted by spikers
I am not too familiar with who he is, as I don't really go out of my way to follow the type.

But good on him for coming clean. I believe that there is a time and a place for them, body building being one of them. I mean, the whole idea is to get big and lean. other instances like professional sports, I don't like them in.

I do think that there is too much negativity around steroids, instead of examining the use on a situation basis.

The most amount of negativity comes from politicians, mass media, and ignorant sheep lol. From what I've seen, the vast majority of people in the "fitness communities" have much more respect for those who are honest about their AAS use, rather than those who lie about it and claim natty. It makes sense though because there are a handful of people out there who think you can actually attain a physique which is deemed to be natural, but it's actually achieved through the use of tren and everything else. I don't know about anyone else, but to me, that's just wrong.

I also agree performance enhancements shouldn't be used in professional sports and what not, but what can you do. All fucking top athletes use SOME form of substance(banned or not) to give them an edge over everyone else, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise.

[zipdoa]

On TRT since my teens due to Hypogonadism. Diagnosed by an endocrinologist with a rare disorder. I was 6'2 and 125lbs in high school.

I rarely tell people "I'm on steroids" unless it's a conversation that will be had between intelligent individuals.

Unfortunately, the general public perception of steroid usage is that of massed out freaks who abuse all sorts of hormones (trenbolone, anavar, deca, dianabol, equipoise, sustanon, clen, anadrol, etc). There is such a lack of knowledge regarding the subject that most people will automatically assume you're abusing compounds and destroying your body. Keep in mind, these guys abusing hormones will typically use upwards of 500-1200mg/week of their substance of choice, sometimes even more.

I've been on a dose of 100mg/week of Test Enanthate since my late teens. Comparatively speaking, I'm at no real advantage vs the rest of the population since my blood testosterone levels fall within the average range expected for someone of my age and athleticism. I would MUCH rather have a properly functioning endocrine system and not have to pin myself weekly just to maintain a healthy level of test.

This is not something easily explained to the average gym goer. The second I mention anything about steroids, it's usually assumed that I'm 'cheating' or judged in some fashion for not being 'natural'. I can attest that there is a VERY real stigma associated with steroid usage. It's for this reason that I just tell the majority of people who ask that I'm natural.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by spikers
I personally have never once taken steroids.

Fuck. I lied. Zipdoa reminded me of a conversation we had way back.

I did take some back in around 1997 (I was 17) when I blew out my knee, and got a prescription for them for a couple of weeks during rehab.

Zippy has a better memory than I do.

[speedog]

Some asthma meds are steroid based as well.

[scboss]

I would like to start by saying I will never take steroids or train anyone that takes them lol

After being in the fitness industry a while I see both sides of the coin tho. Realistically steroids are actually pretty safe under doctor supervision. When I see guys like kai green, phil heath and jay cutler I have nothing but respect for them. The discipline and consistency to achieve what they have is crazy.

But IMO unless your competing in a untested sport or you are gonna literally train to be the best body-builder in the world I dont see the point.

All I know is 10 years from now ill be a all natty beast :thumbsup:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Disoblige
immediately think you are attacking them instead of simply asking a question.

89coupe would never do anything like that.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by speedog
Some asthma meds are steroid based as well.

I used a steroid based skin cream prescribed from my dermatologist.

[roopi]

I know nothing about steroids but I find it amazing that some of you have the ability to pick out who is on steroids and who is natural. I wonder if in 10 years when warcaster is a 'natty beast' 89coupe and maxboost will call him out on using.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by warcaster
I would like to start by saying I will never train anyone that takes them lol



Blanket statement. I'm sure you'd train someone on TRT. If not, explain.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by roopi
I know nothing about steroids but I find it amazing that some of you have the ability to pick out who is on steroids and who is natural. I wonder if in 10 years when warcaster is a 'natty beast' 89coupe and maxboost will call him out on using.

There is no way Warcaster will ever look like a juicer, unless of course he juices, haha.

When you see a young 20 something Asian kid who looks like this, yeh its not natural.

There are 3 of them at my gym, that look like this, but carry quite a bit more water.

http://musclemenzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Massive-Asian-Bodybuilder.jpg

[ArjayAquino]

Another example of a steroid user.
http://imgur.com/97p34W4.jpg

[A790]

If someone isn't competing and they take roids to enhance their physique I don't see a problem with it. It's a personal choice that reflects the means they choose to use to achieve their goals. Fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

I don't take roids, never have. The only supplment I take is whey, fish oil, and a multivitamin. I HAVE used creatine before, enjoy it when I'm on it, but it doesn't fit into my current regimen due to my goals.

To have a condescending conversation acting like a know it all with respect to steroids only perpetuates the stigma that exists. We're seeing that behavior in this thread from people on both sides of the camp. There's no new information being shared, no knowledge being transferred.

I think that if steroids are going to exist (hint: they do and always will) that it would be better to explore the benefits and consequences of use and educate people about them. Then they can make an informed decision that fits their lifestyle choices. You don't have to agree with their decision, but there are benefits to having the right information easily available to everyone.

Zipdoa, I found your post really beneficial because it highlights the social stigma that exists in a way that doesn't polarize anything. Thanks for sharing.

[swak]

Originally posted by Tej.S

I also agree performance enhancements shouldn't be used in professional sports and what not, but what can you do. All fucking top athletes use SOME form of substance(banned or not) to give them an edge over everyone else, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise.

This.

For years, and continuing to this day - the athletes and doping encouraging doctors (Ferari) have been lightyears ahead of the policing org's and sport gov't's.

This is how Lance got off for so long, it sucks, but that's sport.

Rules say if you want to compete, don't dope - otherwise don't compete...
Reality says if you want to compete, to be able to match your opponents abilities (endurance/strength, etc), you gotta dope - sometimes you'll get kicked off your pro. Team if you don't. This is known to happen

[..*JDM Hatch*..]

What is everyone's take on M1T? Buddy of mine told me to try them due to massive gains apparently.
I got a bottle of 80 caps of 10mg. But haven't taken them. Have no clue really about the stuff. I was just wondering what everyone thinks of them, orif you have had experience with them.

[speedog]

Originally posted by sputnik
I used a steroid based skin cream prescribed from my dermatologist.

Don't know if a steroid based cream would be on a ban list but I know for sure that certain steroid based inhalers were put on the ban list last year as my son was affected (U of c varsity team) and had to move to a different asthma med which wasn't as effective. Move forward a year and the steroid based asthma inhaler that was on the bad list last year (and for just one year) is now back on the okay list - for whatever reason they placed this particular steroid based inhaler on the no-go list for one year.

[speedog]

Originally posted by ..*JDM Hatch*..
What is everyone's take on M1T? Buddy of mine told me to try them due to massive gains apparently.
I got a bottle of 80 caps of 10mg. But haven't taken them. Have no clue really about the stuff. I was just wondering what everyone thinks of them, orif you have had experience with them.
Out of curiosity, I did a search on M1T and stumbled on to this forum thread (link (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=420872)) and now I'm thinking that people are certainly messing around with their bodies quite a bit using things like M1T just to keep the potential side effects in check.

Possible M1T side effects according to one person in that thread include...

Lethargy and Feverishness
Testicular atrophy
Puffy nipples, soreness aka gyno
Loss of libido, loss of erectile hardness
Nose bleeds
Liver issues


Quite something I'm thinking.

[lint]

I hope people in this thread understand that steroid is a general classification of chemicals including cholesterol, and that not all steroids are anabolic

[89coupe]

Originally posted by lint
I hope people in this thread understand that steroid is a general classification of chemicals including cholesterol, and that not all steroids are anabolic

I'm pretty certain we are talking about anabolic steroids.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by ..*JDM Hatch*..
What is everyone's take on M1T? Buddy of mine told me to try them due to massive gains apparently.
I got a bottle of 80 caps of 10mg. But haven't taken them. Have no clue really about the stuff. I was just wondering what everyone thinks of them, orif you have had experience with them.

Pro-hormones are garbage, sell that junk ASAP. You are going to get shut down just as if you were taking some test or any real steroid. If you are willing to take a pro-hormone you may as well just take some test and do a proper cycle.

[heavyfuel]

Difference between juice monkeys and lifted diesel truck owners?

I KNOW I'm insecure. And one day when I no longer need my truck my dick will still work properly LOL

This thread makes me feel a whole lot better, maybe I'm not that insecure afer all.

[Tej.S]

^^ Not to mention how toxic it is for your liver. Hopping on actual test would be a much safer alternative than taking pro-hormones, if that was ever your decision. PH's like M1T, superdrol, halodrol, etc, are all marketing scams. These people don't care about your health and you will end up damaging your system if you take shit unknowingly. Return that bottle from where ever you got it from.

[lint]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I'm pretty certain we are talking about anabolic steroids.

right. that's why there's talk of asthma meds, steroid based skin creams and anti inflammatories. And how wide swathes of steroid containing compounds are on the banned substance lists for university athletes even if they're not anabolic.

the world is all black and white, until you open your eyes

[scboss]

Originally posted by zipdoa


Blanket statement. I'm sure you'd train someone on TRT. If not, explain.

Zero. I have around 30 clients and none of them take anything and if they did I would just pass them off to a different trainer. I train to many 18-21 year olds and I dont want them to think its "ok" to juice up when training with me.

I might make a acception if it was a older guy and it was precribed because of low test levels but for now I'd rather not have my buisness assosiated with it.

[89coupe]

There is no way any normal man will get prescribed for TRT unless they have something seriously wrong with them.

All these athletes who you hear about these days that are on TRT are just using that scapegoat to abuse anabolic steroids.

All these guys have 4 to 10x higher test levels then the average man.

Really, really old guys in their 60's and 70's might get prescribed and they are brought up to levels associated with a 40 year old man.

The sad fact of the matter is that so many young guys want to look like cartoon figures but don't realize that once you are on it, you have to stay on it, and I'd say 98% of them don't.

I know a handful of guys who have gone this route and now they are 40lbs overweight, bald and all their joints are fucked and ache all the time.

They go into severe depression and usually become heavy drinkers and even suicidal.

Its sad.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by lint


right. that's why there's talk of asthma meds, steroid based skin creams and anti inflammatories. And how wide swathes of steroid containing compounds are on the banned substance lists for university athletes even if they're not anabolic.

the world is all black and white, until you open your eyes

I think 89coupe's motto is "Judge first, Empathize later"

[lint]

Originally posted by zipdoa
I think 89coupe's motto is "Judge first, Empathize later"

what makes you think he's empathetic at all? He starts a thread criticizing steroids and then posts in said thread asking what's the stigma?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by warcaster


Zero. I have around 30 clients and none of them take anything and if they did I would just pass them off to a different trainer. I train to many 18-21 year olds and I do want them to think its "ok" to juice up when training with me.

I might make a acception if it was a older guy and it was precribed because of low test levels but for not I'd rather not have my buisness assosiated with it.

Not that I'd ever procure your services, but I see your attitude as uneducated and discriminatory. Maybe you missed my first post in this thread. Not everyone on hormone therapy is 'juicing up'. I get that a personal training certificate does not equal a medical degree, but I would expect you to understand the difference between therapeutic hormone therapy and AAS abuse.

I cringe to think of you discriminating against clients based on a medical condition they may have. If I had the courage to disclose to a PT that I was on HRT when I was younger and they rejected me based on the notion that I was 'juicing up' - the impact on my confidence would've been immense. What should I do? Disregard medical treatment and face certain osteoporosis, extremely low muscle mass, zero sexual drive along with every other effect of having virtually no natural testosterone so that I can qualify for training?

Ignorant.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by lint


what makes you think he's empathetic at all? He starts a thread criticizing steroids and then posts in said thread asking what's the stigma?

He has children. I assume he possess, despite his blatant arrogance, some degree of empathy.

[swak]

But all forms of steroids are banned by wada though, so regardless if you're talking aas or not is irrelevant.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by swak
But all forms of steroids are banned by wada though, so regardless if you're talking aas or not is irrelevant.

Wrong, HRT is allowed by WADA if you pass a TUE (Therapeutic use examination) beforehand.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by zipdoa


He has children. I assume he possess, despite his blatant arrogance, some degree of empathy.

But sadly you'd be wrong. The evidence being every post he's ever made on Beyond.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by zipdoa
Wrong, HRT is allowed by WADA if you pass a TUE (Therapeutic use examination) beforehand.

HRT isn't a steroid.

[scboss]

Originally posted by zipdoa


Not that I'd ever procure your services, but I see your attitude as uneducated and discriminatory. Maybe you missed my first post in this thread. Not everyone on hormone therapy is 'juicing up'. I get that a personal training certificate does not equal a medical degree, but I would expect you to understand the difference between therapeutic hormone therapy and AAS abuse.

I cringe to think of you discriminating against clients based on a medical condition they may have. If I had the courage to disclose to a PT that I was on HRT when I was younger and they rejected me based on the notion that I was 'juicing up' - the impact on my confidence would've been immense. What should I do? Disregard medical treatment and face certain osteoporosis, extremely low muscle mass, zero sexual drive along with every other effect of having virtually no natural testosterone so that I can qualify for training?

Ignorant.

I got a university degree and I took 3 classes on exercise physiology so i wouldnt consider myself a "certified trainer" that your thinking about. I have plenty of knowledge on steroids and supplementing and its just something I stand by. Show up with a doctors note saying that you need them perfect. Show up saying you looking to throw on a few pounds and your gonna do a cycle no thanks.

That shit is like a cancer for any gym/client base esp when training natty athletes. I got no problem in someone else using it but not my thing

[89coupe]

Its blatantly obvious someone has issues if they are taking anabolic steroids purley for appearance.

Anyone can recognize that.

As for people suffering from low testosterone due to an illness or old age, and have been prescribed a trt treatment, they won't be looking like Arnold anytime soon.

They would be given levels that would bring them up to par, not above and beyond that is required to look like a bodybuilder.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by sputnik


HRT isn't a steroid.

:rofl:

HRT = Hormone replacement therapy

Which means you are being prescribed something like Delatestryl, which is Testosterone Enanthate. Is Testosterone Enanthate not a steroid?

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Its blatantly obvious someone has issues if they are taking anabolic steroids purley for appearance.

Anyone can recognize that.


How is it really any different than working out for appearance reasons?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


How is it really any different than working out for appearance reasons?

The more guys that get bigger and more aesthetic than 89coupe, the less impressive his physique becomes. I doubt his concern is about their health and safety, as he's projected.

Kind of like Gallardo's in Calgary. They're dime a dozen, so it's not that exciting to see one anymore.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
Its blatantly obvious someone has issues if they ___________________________ purley for appearance.

Want to play fill in the blank? Let me get started.

- buy a BMW
- get hair plugs
- get gastric bypass surgery
- whiten their teeth
- get a tattoo
- wear a $50,000 watch
- spend thousands on a purse or jewelery
- get fake tits
- carry their lunch in a Holt Renfrew bag
- spend over a million on a house
- get a country club membership
- use a tanning salon
- modify their car/truck
- post pictures of their kids on forums to show strangers how beautiful they are

We can play this game all day long and judge EVERYONE about the individual lifestyle choices we all make in one way or another.

I don't using steroids to build muscle and never will.

However if someone wants to, that is THEIR decision and as long as they aren't harming anyone else in the process, what business is it to you?

Why is it so important to you what some random stranger at the gym does that you would see it fitting to start a thread on Beyond about it?

[Tej.S]

Well said Sputnik, well said.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sputnik


Want to play fill in the blank? Let me get started.

- buy a BMW
- get hair plugs
- get gastric bypass surgery
- whiten their teeth
- get a tattoo
- wear a $50,000 watch
- spend thousands on a purse or jewelery
- get fake tits
- carry their lunch in a Holt Renfrew bag
- spend over a million on a house
- get a country club membership
- use a tanning salon
- modify their car/truck
- post pictures of their kids on forums to show strangers how beautiful they are

We can play this game all day long and judge EVERYONE about the individual lifestyle choices we all make in one way or another.

I don't using steroids to build muscle and never will.

However if someone wants to, that is THEIR decision and as long as they aren't harming anyone else in the process, what business is it to you?

Why is it so important to you what some random stranger at the gym does that you would see it fitting to start a thread on Beyond about it?

I just like posting controversial topics.

I could care less if a person wants to take an illegal substance for personal gains.

Professional sports I think is a joke these days as everyone cheats, but I don't watch them so I don't care.

It just blows my mind that a person would be willing to purchase illegal drugs from a criminal and possibly risk their health for appearance alone.

Its nuts!

[swak]

Originally posted by zipdoa


Wrong, HRT is allowed by WADA if you pass a TUE (Therapeutic use examination) beforehand.

LOL. Anythings allowed with a TUE. AAS included.

... As such my previous statement is completely true.

[01RedDX]

.