snow on sunday...should i change tires? and jackstands questions [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Tik-Tok

10-25-2013, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Seks
Forecast is for snow on sunday. Anyone swapping out their tires or staying put until the snow season gets more serious? I currently have all seasons and my winters are sitting in the garage.

On a side note, brought my lift but forgot my jackstands back in Edmonton. Safe to change a tire at a time without stands?

If you have good all-seasons, I wouldn't bother until it gets daily highs of above 0*C (personal preference). Summers on the other hand should be changed now.

As long as your jack is good, you un-seat the nuts while it's still on the ground, and you don't plan on crawling under your car, yeah.

EK69

10-25-2013, 08:14 PM

In case the jack gives out, don't be dumb and put anything under the car that u don't wanna risk losing.
Also don't be swinging hard trying to get the tires off or on.

Is it a actual car jack using the tire iron or those pump ones that u pump to get it up? I find the pump ones settle over time (unless the ones I've used are just shitty which is possible they were cheap ones I'm sure lol)

HiTempguy1

10-25-2013, 08:19 PM

Winter tires are designed to pick up where all-seasons give up, which is about 7*C!

I always put winter tires on at the beginning of October. The month or less of dry/slightly warmer weather isn't going to affect wear, and you'll be glad you did if the snow comes early!

taemo

10-25-2013, 08:36 PM

I always put my winter tires on mid-October, then summer tires comes back on after May long weekend

btimbit

10-25-2013, 08:39 PM

October 15th, every time. Except this yer I have to buy new ones so it might not be until late November.

Hey this turned into the yearly "When do you put on your winter tires?" thread

Before some baller makes our other yearly thread, I'll swap your tires for you for $50 :poosie:

FraserB

10-25-2013, 08:40 PM

Duratracs are going on on the 14th. Waited a bit too long and got caught in the rush.

Speed_69

10-25-2013, 08:57 PM

Already put my winter tires on October 11 :thumbsup:

Xtrema

10-25-2013, 09:20 PM

Put mine on thanksgiving weekend. I already got a few spins in the morning by then (lead foot part of the blame). Summers start to suck around 3-5c before you see snow.

Shlade

10-26-2013, 08:11 AM

For anybody who hasn't put on their winter tires yet and gets in an accident still running their summers and causes major back ups on my way to work... Fuck yourself

Either put your winters on or be a statistic

Tik-Tok

10-26-2013, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Shlade
For anybody who hasn't put on their winter tires yet and gets in an accident still running their summers and causes major back ups on my way to work... Fuck yourself

Either put your winters on or be a statistic

All seasons =/= accident prone in this weather. That 7*C shit is complete advertising BS, considering how many other factors come into account. I agree summers are bad right now (for mornings anyways), but no one has mentioned summer tires in this thread.

codetrap

10-26-2013, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
All seasons =/= accident prone in this weather. That 7*C shit is complete advertising BS, considering how many other factors come into account. I agree summers are bad right now (for mornings anyways), but no one has mentioned summer tires in this thread.

Prove it. Provide any evidence to back up your statement. Real evidence. Cite studies, that sort of thing. In my 10 seconds of googling, I've found several studies that directly dispute your statement.

firebane

10-26-2013, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by codetrap

Prove it. Provide any evidence to back up your statement. Real evidence. Cite studies, that sort of thing. In my 10 seconds of googling, I've found several studies that directly dispute your statement.

I will say this. A lot of what a vehicle can do solely depends on the driver, knowing the vehicle and knowing the roads.

I drove around last year with nearly bald tires on the back of my truck and had no issues getting around because it was a 4x4 truck.

With that said I've also driven around with all season tires in the same weather and no issues either.

Calgary isn't a city I feel that "requires" winter tires due to the crazy and mild winters we have. Yes it can drop to -30 for a week but it also doesn't snow during the that time.

I remember last year I was coming home and turned west onto Bow Trail off of Crowchild and it was blizzarding and coming down super hard. So many cars were stuck and spinning out on that small hill and all I did was lock it into 4x4 and just drove no problems.

In fact on that same hill a lady in their car improperly equipped got stuck and couldn't move and was looking for someone to help her but to be safe I just picked her up with her daughter and drove them the 5 minutes to their house. And this was stopping in the middle of the hill with all the retards around me.

Do winter tires help? Of course. Are they needed? Not necessarily.

Cooked Rice

10-26-2013, 09:20 PM

The temperatures are cool enough now you will be fine running winters even if there is no snow on the ground. Mine as well get it done while you have the time and be ready.

Blue

10-26-2013, 09:23 PM

Summers on my M still.. but in the bodyshop so im fine :D

K3RMiTdot

10-26-2013, 09:33 PM

waiting till the end of the week to put the tires on. checked the forecast seems like great weather aside from sunday/monday

FraserB

10-26-2013, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by firebane
Do winter tires help? Of course. Are they needed? Not necessarily.

Exactly. Winter tires are just one more level of insurance and don't make someone into a better or safer driver just because they are running them.

I'm putting mountain/snowflake tires on my truck just because I'll probably be doing more highway driving than last year. The Jeep is keeping the nice aggressive AT/MT combo tires since it will be staying around town more or going into ugly snowpack offroad.

codetrap

10-26-2013, 11:39 PM

Firebane, the same arguments could be made for ABS, or seat belts, or airbags. Or any of 100 safety features or various technological improvements. However, all other things being equal, the car with winter tires in conditions at 7C or less will stop 10-30% faster and have more grip than all seasons. That's just fact.

btimbit

10-27-2013, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by codetrap
Firebane, the same arguments could be made for ABS, or seat belts, or airbags. Or any of 100 safety features or various technological improvements. However, all other things being equal, the car with winter tires in conditions at 7C or less will stop 10-30% faster and have more grip than all seasons. That's just fact.

:werd: I've never needed my seatbelt either, yet I'm always going to put it on because one day I might

Cos

10-27-2013, 07:48 AM

VWEvo

10-27-2013, 08:12 AM

Every driver thinks they are amazing and don't need winters. I hear that argument all the time that "I'm an amazing driver and don't need special tirez"

On Highway 1, it's those 4x4's that are on their roof in the ditch.

btimbit

10-27-2013, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Cos
No one asked the most important question, do you have studs? If yes then don't do them yet, if not then flip them over. People run winters all year, they will see accelerated wear but nothing crazy. Guy I know drove his winter beater for 2 years straight trying to kill it on winters and his tires were fine.

Unless you're towing and am going back into 25+ weather there should be little to no wear. I put mine on last weekend. Just don't corner like you're in initial d and you'll be fine.

:werd: Winter Tires have come a long way, they can withstand heat a lot better than they used to be able too and won't wear as much in dry conditions anymore.

IMO, it's better to run winters all year round that all-seasons all year round.

speedog

10-27-2013, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by VWEvo
Every driver thinks they are amazing and don't need winters. I hear that argument all the time that "I'm an amazing driver and don't need special tirez"

On Highway 1, it's those 4x4's that are on their roof in the ditch.
So help us out here - what exactly is the connection you're trying to make between your two paragraphs above because they seem to be two completely separate subjects?

Never the less, I've seen plenty of 4x4's in the ditch/overturned/whatever that were shod with winter tires as well - it's seems that most 4x4's must come with an invincibility badge that mine must have been missing when I bought it years ago because ours has never sniffed the environs of a ditch without us deliberately placing it there to go to a destination on the other side of that ditch (fishing hole, abandoned mine, etc) .

speedog

10-27-2013, 08:59 AM

BTW, this morning's weather should alleviate the recent spate of temporary hair loss that many beyonders are experiencing - yupp, it's snowing quite heavily out there.

VWEvo

10-27-2013, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by speedog

So help us out here - what exactly is the connection you're trying to make between your two paragraphs above because they seem to be two completely separate subjects?

Never the less, I've seen plenty of 4x4's in the ditch/overturned/whatever that were shod with winter tires as well - it's seems that most 4x4's must come with an invincibility badge that mine must have been missing when I bought it years ago because ours has never sniffed the environs of a ditch without us deliberately placing it there to go to a destination on the other side of that ditch (fishing hole, abandoned mine, etc) .

So you pull over and check to see if they have winters???

I can tell they are all seasons as those trucks usually have those crazy All Terrain treads, which winters do not come in.

speedog

10-27-2013, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by VWEvo
So you pull over and check to see if they have winters???

I can tell they are all seasons as those trucks usually have those crazy All Terrain treads, which winters do not come in.
If one of the first several on the scene, yeah, I'll pull over to help and it's not that difficult to figure out what a winter tire is.

btimbit

10-27-2013, 09:19 AM

Just witnessed my first accident of the season. Corolla locked 'em up and slide right through an intersection. Literally a few seconds after I was thinking "Eh, it's not that bad out here'

speedog

10-27-2013, 09:22 AM

Nice autumn weather.

Tik-Tok

10-27-2013, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by codetrap

Prove it. Provide any evidence to back up your statement. Real evidence. Cite studies, that sort of thing. In my 10 seconds of googling, I've found several studies that directly dispute your statement.

I don't need any evidence except common sense.

A) Not all tire manufacturers use the exact same compound mix
B) Not all tires made by the same manufacturer use the exact same compound mix
C) Humidity levels drastically affect tires (and pretty much everything else), so what is shit in a place with extremely high humidity/cold weather, may be perfectly fine in a place with the same temperature, but zero humidity.

If you truly believe that every single all-season tire is effected at EXACTLY 7*C, without thinking of other factors, then we have nothing more to discuss, because you'll never believe me anyways.

tirebob

10-27-2013, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok

I don't need any evidence except common sense.

A) Not all tire manufacturers use the exact same compound mix
B) Not all tires made by the same manufacturer use the exact same compound mix
C) Humidity levels drastically affect tires (and pretty much everything else), so what is shit in a place with extremely high humidity/cold weather, may be perfectly fine in a place with the same temperature, but zero humidity.

If you truly believe that every single all-season tire is effected at EXACTLY 7*C, without thinking of other factors, then we have nothing more to discuss, because you'll never believe me anyways. 7* is not an exact number in which tires go from working well to not working at all, but they surely will start being affected by that point, and in reality, some tires start to turn shitty in dry weather even earlier than. That doesn't make your tire unusable, but it is at those temps that one should start considering the effects and pay attention to what they are driving on. Of course there are no absolutes, and there are a lot of factors in determining whether or not your specific tires are still footing the bill or not, but for purposes of quantifying something for the masses to look at in determining when they should start considering traction levels, they have to start somewhere. It is what we call a "rule of thumb"...

It isn't just some big conspiracy...

codetrap

10-27-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok

I don't need any evidence except common sense. I had to laugh when you wrote this. What happens when you take pretty much any material in the world and make it cold? Also, I don't disagree with you that there are many other factors that can affect tire grip, but when you control all the variables, keeping all things equal, winter tires will perform better in conditions they're designed for than all seasons. That is proven science bud. :)

http://cars.about.com/od/adviceforowners/a/snowtires.htm

Q: What makes snow tires different from regular tires?

A: Snow tires (also known as winter tires) have tread patterns specifically designed to dig down and bite into snow and ice, plus they are made from softer rubber compounds that retain their flexibility in cold weather, allowing the tire to better conform to the surface of the road. (Regular tires tend to get hard and brittle in cold temperatures.) As a result, winter tires keep a better grip on snowy and icy surfaces than regular all-season or summer tires. Grip is critical -- not just to avoid getting stuck, but to ensure that the car can stop and steer. Life-saving safety technologies such as antilock brakes, electronic stability control and all-wheel-drive cannot do their jobs if the tires can't maintain their grip on the road surface.

http://tirf.ca/publications/PDF_publications/2012_Winter_Tire_Report_7.pdf

In a demonstration project comparing the effectiveness of winter tires versus all-season tires for automobiles (Tire Rack 2007a), a car equipped with winter tires took eight seconds (or 27.3% less time) to reach a distance of 60 metres compared to 11 seconds for a car equipped with all-season tires. In a braking test (from 50 km/h to a full stop), the car with winter tires took 18 metres to stop whereas the car with all-season tires took 27.1 metres (33.6% less distance or a two car-lengths difference). And in a cornering comparison where both cars had to make a 90-degree turn at 40 km/h, only the car equipped with winter 11 tires was able to complete the turn. Although both cars were equipped with dynamic stability control, the tires’ traction limits were exceeded for the car with all-season tires.

speedog

10-27-2013, 10:53 AM

And so the age old beyond argument begins anew for the 2013-14 winter driving season...

Unknown303

10-27-2013, 11:06 AM

A bunch of god damn Tire Nazis on this forum.

lilmira

10-27-2013, 11:14 AM

I'm switching my Puma summers with Timberland winters to shovel my driveway. Studies show that shoveling when wearing summer footwear increases the risk of injury due to slippery surface and frozen toes. :D

GQBalla

10-27-2013, 11:51 AM

So slippery out. Thought I could get away with my near end of life all seasons. Switched out to my studded winters just now. Shovelled with my bald ass Air Force 1s today though. Almost ate shit a few times. Got to switch to my Solomon hiking boots

Sentry

10-27-2013, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by lilmira
I'm switching my Puma summers with Timberland winters to shovel my driveway. Studies show that shoveling when wearing summer footwear increases the risk of injury due to slippery surface and frozen toes. :D
Citation needed. I wear my polo sneakers in all seasons and I've never had an accident.

AE92_TreunoSC

10-27-2013, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by GQBalla
So slippery out. Thought I could get away with my near end of life all seasons. Switched out to my studded winters just now. Shovelled with my bald ass Air Force 1s today though. Almost ate shit a few times. Got to switch to my Solomon hiking boots

Ditto I got squirrelly on stoney only going 80 haha, definitely end of life for these all seasons. My winters only have 3 months on them so pretty much new :D

I refused to wear boots today and regretted it instantly lol.

Hakkola

10-27-2013, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by VWEvo
Every driver thinks they are amazing and don't need winters. I hear that argument all the time that "I'm an amazing driver and don't need special tirez"

I think I'm a pretty damn good driver and I still rock winters, it's more fun knowing I don't have to worry much about losing control, I can accelerate and corner faster with a good set of rubber and most importantly, stop.

I don't get why people don't get good winters, the driving experience is so much better.

Kolbatron

10-27-2013, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Hakkola
I don't get why people don't get good winters, the driving experience is so much better.

:werd:

FraserB

10-27-2013, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by VWEvo

So you pull over and check to see if they have winters???

I can tell they are all seasons as those trucks usually have those crazy All Terrain treads, which winters do not come in.

Guess you'd better let all the tire shops and manufacturers know that winter tires don't came in an AT tread pattern. I'm sure they'll be very surprised.

speedog

10-27-2013, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by FraserB
Guess you'd better let all the tire shops and manufacturers know that winter tires don't came in an AT tread pattern. I'm sure they'll be very surprised.
Thx, FraserB, as you're more knowledgeable than I on this subject - a quick google search revealed this, link (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO). So either BFGoodrich is lying or something else is now amiss in this thread.

firebane

10-27-2013, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by speedog

Thx, FraserB, as you're more knowledgeable than I on this subject - a quick google search revealed this, link (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO). So either BFGoodrich is lying or something else is now amiss in this thread.

Its simply a difference in what degree of snow and temperatures those tires can effectively work in.

Anyone who 4x4s will tell you that a skinny tire is best for snow to cut through it and a wire tire is good for mud to float and dig through it.

While the BFGs will work in snow and work in cooler temperatures its not necessarily a tire I would use for a dedicated winter tire.. there are much better choices out there.

But if all you have is those BFGs I'm sure with proper driving and being smart you can get around just fine.

FraserB

10-27-2013, 02:10 PM

DuraTracs are also severe snow rated with the mountain/snowflake symbol. The BFGs and the DuraTracs both satisfy Quebec requirements to have winter tires mounted.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/fraserbrown1986/Duratrac_zps720d619b.jpg

speedog

10-27-2013, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by firebane
Its simply a difference in what degree of snow and temperatures those tires can effectively work in.

Anyone who 4x4s will tell you that a skinny tire is best for snow to cut through it and a wire tire is good for mud to float and dig through it.

While the BFGs will work in snow and work in cooler temperatures its not necessarily a tire I would use for a dedicated winter tire.. there are much better choices out there.

But if all you have is those BFGs I'm sure with proper driving and being smart you can get around just fine.
You do know I posted what I did because some one in this thread stated "crazy All Terrain treads, which winters do not come in" which FraserB refuted.

I'm not going to argue the merits of one type of winter tire against another as that will evolve into another ridiculous beyond debate - the issue at hand as of lates in this thread was the existence of winter rated AT tread tires.

firebane

10-27-2013, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by speedog

You do know I posted what I did because some one in this thread stated "crazy All Terrain treads, which winters do not come in" which FraserB refuted.

I'm not going to argue the merits of one type of winter tire against another as that will evolve into another ridiculous beyond debate - the issue at hand as of lates in this thread was the existence of winter rated AT tread tires.

Oh I know. There is a lot of misguided information in this thread.

lilmira

10-27-2013, 02:26 PM

Hello orange supra? with body kit parked on the street in Royal Oak, I guess you'll be sticking around for a couple days at least.

Tik-Tok

10-27-2013, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by tirebob

It isn't just some big conspiracy...

I understand winters > all seaons/summers IN WINTER. But Shlade is trying to say that if you don't have winters on in this current mild weather, you're a a**hole.

All seasons are perfectly fine right now, earlier today I took the S/B Deerfoot to W/B Glenmore at 100km.h, just like I do in the middle of summer. No slip, no traction control kicking in, braking was exactly the same as always slowing down for the construction, and my car is a freaking tank at 4300lbs.

codetrap

10-27-2013, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I understand winters > all seaons/summers IN WINTER. But Shlade is trying to say that if you don't have winters on in this current mild weather, you're a a**hole.

All seasons are perfectly fine right now, earlier today I took the S/B Deerfoot to W/B Glenmore at 100km.h, just like I do in the middle of summer. No slip, no traction control kicking in, braking was exactly the same as always slowing down for the construction, and my car is a freaking tank at 4300lbs. That's cool, and you're probably right for the most part, but that poor bastard that's in the ditch on the side of stoney where the wind drifted the snow over and it got all polished would probably beg to differ with you. 99% of the road I was on today was simply wet.... but there was that 1% where it had actually frozen was just nice and icy.

I do agree, you're def not an a-hole for running all seasons now. Driving with due care and attention would most definitely get you through the day. The biggest single reason I run the winters isn't for me, it's for all the other people out there who don't. :)

snowcat

10-27-2013, 04:03 PM

The BEST video - I show this to all my friends who are non-believers in winter tries.

GlYEMH10Z4s

tirebob

10-27-2013, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Tik-Tok

I understand winters > all seaons/summers IN WINTER. But Shlade is trying to say that if you don't have winters on in this current mild weather, you're a a**hole.

Sorry Tik-Tok... I wasn't meaning all seasons aren't drivable or the like. I was referring more to your referral earlier in the thread when you said that the 7* rule is all about advertising, when it isn't about that...

Like I said, the rule that it is a "good idea to considering changing your tires when the temps are consistently remaining below 7*" is more of a trigger point for the consumer to start considering what conditions they will be potentially driving in as rubber compounding does start to harden up more when compared to their optimum operating temps, which however great or small the difference is at the moment, it does start to degrade traction. Again, conditions and severity of conditions will play a key roll in determining what you will do, but from your statement, you make it sound like as an industry we made up this lie simply to sell tires...

Originally posted by Tik-Tok

All seasons =/= accident prone in this weather. That 7*C shit is complete advertising BS, considering how many other factors come into account. I agree summers are bad right now (for mornings anyways), but no one has mentioned summer tires in this thread.

max_boost

10-27-2013, 05:32 PM

Yea when drivers stop super far ahead with their all seasons, I will just drive around them with my snow tires. :D

btimbit

10-27-2013, 05:34 PM

BFG Rugged Trail - Horrible in every condition.

Can't wait to order my Duratracs

max_boost

10-27-2013, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Hakkola

I think I'm a pretty damn good driver and I still rock winters, it's more fun knowing I don't have to worry much about losing control, I can accelerate and corner faster with a good set of rubber and most importantly, stop.

I don't get why people don't get good winters, the driving experience is so much better.
Winter tires drive sooo much better how can anyone even argue against it lol

If you wanna have the best gear, you gotta pay for it!

firebane

10-27-2013, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by codetrap
That's cool, and you're probably right for the most part, but that poor bastard that's in the ditch on the side of stoney where the wind drifted the snow over and it got all polished would probably beg to differ with you. 99% of the road I was on today was simply wet.... but there was that 1% where it had actually frozen was just nice and icy.

I do agree, you're def not an a-hole for running all seasons now. Driving with due care and attention would most definitely get you through the day. The biggest single reason I run the winters isn't for me, it's for all the other people out there who don't. :)

LOL Seriously? Do enjoy just stirring the pot and keeping the shit storm going?

On glare ice conditions while winter tires will help you perhaps stop in perfect and ideal conditions it doesn't matter what you have for tires.. ice is slippery and going to make you go where you want to go.

If you have 5 feet before the ditch and you hit a patch of ice your going into the ditch no matter your tires. And this is simply because people are driving to fast for the conditions on the road.

:nut:

tirebob

10-27-2013, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by firebane

LOL Seriously? Do enjoy just stirring the pot and keeping the shit storm going?

On glare ice conditions while winter tires will help you perhaps stop in perfect and ideal conditions it doesn't matter what you have for tires.. ice is slippery and going to make you go where you want to go.

If you have 5 feet before the ditch and you hit a patch of ice your going into the ditch no matter your tires. And this is simply because people are driving to fast for the conditions on the road.

:nut: Actually... Ice is not slippery as a substance. It is the layer of water that forms under the tire when ice is compressed under weight that is slippery...

That is why proper winter tires actually DO help, even under highway driving situations. The higher sipe density and softer rubber compounds work together and act like squeegies, so when your tire is slipping and sliding they are actually sweeping the water off the ice, drying out the footprint, which in turn improves traction. Enough to the point that it can you out of the ditch more frequently than you would think...

Combine that with other aspects of the technology and it is an undeniable fact winter tires do provide a safer, more enjoyable driving experience in winter conditions...