Classic/Agreed Value Insurance

[li Arc]

Hey guys,

I've got a 28-year old car right now that I'm using as my daily driver, but I also keep it in fantastic condition and am starting to get scared driving it due to poor valuation and idiots on the road. I do all my own work on mechanicals (since no one else in the city knows how to work on this car, plus it's cheaper this way), such as a recent engine and transmission rebuild, and also try to keep up with body/rust repairs at a shop when necessary. In my last accident I was at a stop coming out of a poor visibility underground garage in downtown when some idiot driving on the left hand side of the alleyway ploughed into my front bumper hard enough that he wrecked the entire driver side of his gf's VW Golf, with a mangled front wheel (undriveable) all the way back to a wrecked rear passenger door. I was held responsible for it, even after trying to make my case, and had to pay for my own body repairs and mechanical parts.

I'd like to see if there is insurance out there for Calgary that will allow an agreed upon valuation of the car (either under a classic classification or not), that also allows use of the car for commuting to and from work. Just because of high mileage (of the body) and age of the car shouldn't mean it's worth less than a poorly maintained late model daily driven Audi or Jag. I do all this work on it so I can drive it, not store it. The countless labour hours I've put into repairs and maintenance cannot be accounted for via receipts, though most of the parts can be. How would one go about getting a fair appraisal for the agreed upon valuation (assuming daily-use coverage is available)?

li Arc

[Masked Bandit]

Getting the insurance for the appraised value isn't too much trouble. I think your challenge will be getting an appraisal that comes up with a number you're happy with. $10,000 of work into a car does not mean it's now a $10,000 car. You won't be able to get the classic / antique program as those usally exclude daily driving. What has your current broker said about this idea?

[li Arc]

Well, I certainly don't expect a valuation of $10k for $10k of work put in, as I would expect that to depreciate like anything else (ie. depreciation of new car straight off the lot). But I'd like to see something like $10k for $15k of work put in, depending on the age of the work. The difficulty is in the valuation of the work without labour receipts, I think.

Unfortunately, I'm currently with State Farm and they say they can offer regular coverage and keep an appraisal on file, but that the appraisal will simply be "taken into account" in the event of a collision. In other words, an ignorable suggestion instead of a hard value.

I notice some posts about people who have collector's or antique insurance, but those insurers won't cover a daily driver. I'm more interested in the agreed value coverage for a daily driver. I mean, if I'm paying insurance for $10k of value, whatever the actual value of the car, I expect to be covered for $10k. The main problem is when I get hit and the opposing insurance company challenges that value; I need someone who will fight for the appraised value.

li Arc

[Masked Bandit]

It all comes down to that appraisal. A policy can be written for a daily driver with just about any APPRAISED value. Keep in mind that it has to be a proper appraisal, usually about 15 pages long and not something written up by Fast Eddy the grease monkey at the local garage.

[Type_S1]

What kind of car is it?

[li Arc]

I'm sure there will be people who laugh, as it's a 1985 Saab 900 Turbo, but as an engineer I appreciate its fine and unique engineering and unusual styling. Plus it's been in the family for more than 20 years, and I work on it myself since no one knows how to anymore.

I assume there are appraisers who have strengths in certain cars, but the Saab is probably not rare enough to be considered a collectible and not unique enough to be considered rare, so there probably aren't many appraisers around qualified to perform the appraisal. I assume the appraiser needs to be in or licensed in Alberta? Anyone that can be recommended for older European cars? Would there be an insurance company that will take the appraisal seriously (ie. enforce it when dealing with an opposing policy in the event of a collision, or are themselves willing to pay for repairs against the appraised value)?

li Arc

[T-Dubbs]

Google :
Fred Nelson Racing.
He does appraisals for older cars.
He could point you in the right direction, if he can't do it for you.

[li Arc]

Looks like searching Fred Nelson also yielded Norm Flanders for appraisers, but they seem to be more American car and antique-oriented. Is it just individuals that do this or are there shops? Or are the individuals more accurate?

Just got off the phone with my insurer and they told me that the appraised values are suggestions, but the strength of the suggestions are based on the age of the appraisal. So they recommend an appraisal every year or two for daily drivers. But the way the valuation works is that if I get hit by someone and the opposing policy undervalues the car, then my policy will need to compensate for the difference between their internal valuation and the opposing valuation, so they have a stake in the value of my car and will go to bat for me. Without a proper appraisal or collision coverage, I would have to deal with the opposing policy myself, which I imagine would end up less in my favour.

So my question is, if I go with a specialty insurer that will insure against an agreed value and/or appraisal, do they function the same way (take the agreed value/appraisal as a suggestion) or will the pay out against the agreed value/appraisal? And what about if I get hit under such a policy, will the opposing policy be forced into complying with the same rules (must pay out against the value that my policy holds on the vehicle)?

li Arc

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by li Arc
Looks like searching Fred Nelson also yielded Norm Flanders for appraisers, but they seem to be more American car and antique-oriented. Is it just individuals that do this or are there shops? Or are the individuals more accurate?

Just got off the phone with my insurer and they told me that the appraised values are suggestions, but the strength of the suggestions are based on the age of the appraisal. So they recommend an appraisal every year or two for daily drivers. But the way the valuation works is that if I get hit by someone and the opposing policy undervalues the car, then my policy will need to compensate for the difference between their internal valuation and the opposing valuation, so they have a stake in the value of my car and will go to bat for me. Without a proper appraisal or collision coverage, I would have to deal with the opposing policy myself, which I imagine would end up less in my favour.

So my question is, if I go with a specialty insurer that will insure against an agreed value and/or appraisal, do they function the same way (take the agreed value/appraisal as a suggestion) or will the pay out against the agreed value/appraisal? And what about if I get hit under such a policy, will the opposing policy be forced into complying with the same rules (must pay out against the value that my policy holds on the vehicle)?

li Arc

Let's assume you go out and get an appraisal on this thing for $7500. You can find regular insurance companies that will write you a policy with the 19A endorsement for the $7500 value. If you are in an at-fault accident, your company will indeed pay you out on the agreed value. That's the whole point of it. HOWEVER, you are right to wonder about a payout if you're in an accident where the other person is at fault. And to be honest, I have no answer for you. I chatted with a couple of different companies and they couldn't tell me one way or the other if the guilty party's insurance company would be required to honour the 19a valuation. Logic says they would, but I've seen things in insurance that are far from logical. It's a gamble, that's for sure. Part of what is creating the uncertainty is the fact that a 19a endorsement is almost never used on regular personal lines insurance. It's normally just for classic / antique vehicles.

[Velostabile]

Check out Appreciated. I had them do my classic and it was outstanding service. They also wil suggest insurance brokers that accept the appraisal at full for fair market value, based on how much you drive the car.

http://www.avagroup.ca/