Conversation with a Doctor

[Modelexis]

Had an interesting talk with my doctor today.

Initially I had booked to get a blood test to measure hormonal levels and vitamin levels. Straight forward enough it seemed to me but obviously I had underestimated the power of state socialism.

Doc informed me that they don't do these tests and will not do these tests. Even if they sent the lab a request for these tests they would not be performed.
I was told that there was no reason for me to want to know this information. She also could not refer me to a non-state socialist entity that could perform these tests privately.

No luck, but worth a shot at least I guess.

I thought while on the subject I would mention the private entities that analyze your DNA from a saliva sample.
Really struck a nerve with this one.
I got as far as mentioning saliva and she cut me off, said 'don't go there' and 'this places are a business' and 'this is not medically proven'

So according to my doctor, any private company that tests saliva is working outside the realm of the field of medicine and science.

She could be correct, and I might just not have found the articles that prove this stuff is quackery, but I'm interested if anyone else has come across this and confirmed if it's accurate or not.
I didn't push the issue, because I had not done my due diligence to look before hand at any public articles debunking this practice.

The place I was introduced to this idea was at a talk held at the Telus science center and the speaker wasn't challenged or laughed out of the room so I assumed it wasn't a big joke.

The type of thing I'm talking about is places like 23andme that require a saliva sample and can give you an analysis about a certain number of DNA markers.

[Cos]

.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Cos
BS, the nutritionist at my wifes Chiro Clinic had blood work done on both of us

Did that go through your doctor? or was your Chiro able to refer you directly for blood work?

[Cos]

.

[speedog]

Odd - I had a complete blood and urine work-up including hormone levels done by my GP's office at my last check about 3-4 months ago. Must be OP's GP or OP or a combination of the two of them.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Had an interesting talk with my doctor today.

Initially I had booked to get a blood test to measure hormonal levels and vitamin levels. Straight forward enough it seemed to me but obviously I had underestimated the power of socialism.

Doc informed me that they don't do these tests and will not do these tests. Even if they sent the lab a request for these tests they would not be performed.
I was told that there was no reason for me to want to know this information. She also could not refer me to a non-socialist entity that could perform these tests privately.

No luck, but worth a shot at least I guess.

I thought while on the subject I would mention the private entities that analyze your DNA from a saliva sample.
Really struck a nerve with this one.
I got as far as mentioning saliva and she cut me off, said 'don't go there' and 'this places are a business' and 'this is not medically proven'

So according to my doctor, any private company that tests saliva is working outside the realm of the field of medicine and science.

She could be correct, and I might just not have found the articles that prove this stuff is quackery, but I'm interested if anyone else has come across this and confirmed if it's accurate or not.
I didn't push the issue, because I had not done my due diligence to look before hand at any public articles debunking this practice.

The place I was introduced to this idea was at a talk held at the Telus science center and the speaker wasn't challenged or laughed out of the room so I assumed it wasn't a big joke.

The type of thing I'm talking about is places like 23andme that require a saliva sample and can give you an analysis about a certain number of DNA markers.

I had everything done through here. I just told my GP that I wanted a full physical done, as I'm 40 now. He gave me a form signed by him and told me to go to the following place.

Gulf Canada Square.
http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/services.asp?pid=saf&rid=1077149

Got everything done, stool samples, urine, & blood, was given a 4 page print out of all my levels and what they compare to the average 'norm'.

Lipids
Edocrine (Testosterone)
Blood Counts
Chemistry
Everything!

[flipstah]

Originally posted by speedog
Odd - I had a complete blood and urine work-up including hormone levels done by my GP's office at my last check about 3-4 months ago. Must be OP's GP or OP or a combination of the two of them.

Yeah, I had my GP do bloodwork for me.

Oddly enough, they wouldn't do a blood-type analysis.

[Modelexis]

I had a physical done and a form to get a blood/urine test but the only things she checked off on the form was CBC, U (urine), blood sugar, and TSH (thyroid)

Sounds like I got boned.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Sounds like I got boned.

Sounds more like your doctor is trying to not overburden the health care system by giving out free tests. Unless there is a specific reason you need to know those other things?

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Sounds more like your doctor is trying to not overburden the health care system by giving out free tests. Unless there is a specific reason you need to know those other things?

So your theory is that she lied?

I wouldn't expect a state socialist to understand the concept of preventative maintenance, which by the way is a great way to reduce long term healthcare costs.

Is there a reason a perfectly healthy person needs to get xrays of their teeth every year even though they're not complaining about tooth problems?

Give your head a shake, this is supposed to be modern 2013 healthcare not some fucking communist gulag cafeteria where I'm asking for a lobster dinner.

This is where capitalism destroys state socialism, a capitalist will do as you request, you put enough cash in his hand and he will clean your teeth every morning and every night before you go to bed.
He will never complain that it's not needed or you're wasting his time.

But in state socialist Kanada a blood test could bring down the entire system so it's banned by order of the queen.

NEXT!

[Lex350]

I can get almost any test I want from my doctor. It might just be me but I think they loosen up on the test restrictions after you hit 40.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Modelexis


So your theory is that she lied?

I wouldn't expect a socialist to understand the concept of preventative maintenance, which by the way is a great way to reduce long term healthcare costs.

Is there a reason a perfectly healthy person needs to get xrays of their teeth every year even though they're not complaining about tooth problems?

Give your head a shake, this is supposed to be modern 2013 healthcare not some fucking communist gulag cafeteria where I'm asking for a lobster dinner.

This is where capitalism destroys socialism, a capitalist will do as you request, you put enough cash in his hand and he will clean your teeth every morning and every night before you go to bed.
He will never complain that it's not needed or you're wasting his time.

But in socialist Kanada a blood test could bring down the entire system so it's banned by order of the queen.

NEXT!

You're IN a socialist health care system. You can't pretend it isn't and then complain. As for her opinion on Saliva DNA testing, she's stating her personal opinion of the matter, she isn't stopping you from doing it.

You go right on ahead and spend your money on the tests, just like our national healthcare system does NOT cover dental xrays, and you have to spend your own money on that as well.

[Modelexis]

I'm damn well perfectly right to complain about state socialism that I was born into.

Someone needs to complain about, instead of cowardly apologists making up excuses for a corrupt system.
If we all had some honesty and took an honest look at healthcare maybe something could change, but trying to cover for corrupt doctors is just scummy.

How dare you complain about how long the line is to get a loaf of bread from the government!
Why does a perfectly healthy person need 2 loafs of bread! There will never be enough to go around!
Can't you see how long the lines are already!
Thanks goodness the government provides us bread, otherwise those evil capitalists would raise their prices so high no one could afford any!

[OneGreasyHobo]

I was curious to see what my Test levels are at, as my cholesterol and other stuff. I went a few weeks ago and the Doc gave me everything I wanted..

Just have to go get my bloodwork done now one day..

[Modelexis]

Also, when a Dr. makes an explicit statement saying that something is not medically proven they are not given their personal opinion.
They're not telling me their favorite band or flavor of ice cream, they're giving professional medical advice.
She didn't say, oh, I haven't studied it but it doesn't seem like a credible thing, maybe you should research it further and I will too.
She interrupted me and told me to 'not go there'

Imagine asking your dentist about a new whitening service that isn't mainstream yet, and having them snap at you and cut you off shouting to not go there. I bet you love state socialism though, you should get a bumper sticker.

[Lex350]

Funny that it just seems to be Modelexis having the problem getting the tests done. lol

[EK69]

This thread seems like it's more for the lulz than an actual discussion? :rofl: :dunno:
U have the form in hand. Check off whatever u want? Or get a new doctor? Lol

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by EK69
This thread seems like it's more for the lulz than an actual discussion? :rofl: :dunno:


I think it's more for him just to have another bitchfest. Must be that time of the month.

[Waldi]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Also, when a Dr. makes an explicit statement saying that something is not medically proven they are not given their personal opinion.
They're not telling me their favorite band or flavor of ice cream, they're giving professional medical advice.
She didn't say, oh, I haven't studied it but it doesn't seem like a credible thing, maybe you should research it further and I will too.
She interrupted me and told me to 'not go there'

Imagine asking your dentist about a new whitening service that isn't mainstream yet, and having them snap at you and cut you off shouting to not go there. I bet you love socialism though, you should get a bumper sticker.

when was the last time during the visit to your family doctor you have dropped $600 for cleanup ...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by rotten42
Funny that it just seems to be Modelexis having the problem getting the tests done. lol

I was thinking the same thing.

Did you by chance go off on one of your bogus political tangents with the doctor before requesting your tests?

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Waldi
when was the last time during the visit to your family doctor you have dropped $600 for cleanup ...

I don't pay anything for a cleanup, it's covered by insurance, state socialists often overlook the concept of insurance.

[Modelexis]

Maybe she should have given me those tests and more if Beyond's diagnosis is correct.
I've obviously got some vitamin or chemical brain deficiency that should be looked into ASAP. Anyone who condemns state socialism is obviously crazy.

Who would you all take out your passive aggression on if I wasn't around to give you a target?
Beyond would be back to everyone agreeing with each other if they drugged me up into falling in line with state socialism.
Maybe the doctor should have told me to repeat after her that 2+2 is 5.

Maybe I need some shock therapy to get this capitalist demon out of my system.

[faiz999]

get well soon :)

[colinxx235]

Too bad she couldn't just stick you with a nice big OD of insulin... the best test results any of us on here could receive :D

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Anyone who condemns socialism is obviously crazy.



Haven't seen anyone defending it in this thread either. I merely mentioned you HAVE an option, you'd rather just complain about not getting it for free (kind of like what a socialist would do, ironically)

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Haven't seen anyone defending it in this thread either. I merely mentioned you HAVE an option, you'd rather just complain about not getting it for free (kind of like what a socialist would do, ironically)

I'm not complaining about not getting something for free, I'm complaining about not getting something my wages have been automatically garnished to pay for, in the same but less threatening way a (voluntary) portion of my paycheck goes towards dental insurance and I would also complain if I had to pay out of pocket for an Xray at the dentist.

[sabad66]

If you're so unhappy with the socialist system, why not take matters into your own hands and fly to the US and go to a private lab that will do this for you? Isn't that how capitalists do things?

[tobypaddock]

maybe get a new doctor... or you know, just come bitch to beyond about the one you chose to see:dunno:

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by tobypaddock
maybe get a new doctor...

I will be taking that advice, but it doesn't seem to be easy for someone my age (30) to get these tests done no matter the doctor.

[sxtasy]

maybe its a tumour:dunno:

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by sxtasy
maybe its a tumour:dunno:

Never know.

[Isaiah]

The boy who cried socialism.

[Modelexis]

:)

I believe the correct term I should be using is "state socialism"

I can go back and edit my posts.

This was my understanding of the fundamentals of socialism in general:
True socialists advocate a completely classless society, where the government controls all means of production and distribution of goods. Socialists believe this control is necessary to eliminate competition among the people and put everyone on a level playing field. Socialism is also characterized by the absence of private property. The idea is that if everyone works, everyone will reap the same benefits and prosper equally. Therefore, everyone receives equal earnings, medical care and other necessities.

[tobypaddock]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I will be taking that advice, but it doesn't seem to be easy for someone my age (30) to get these tests done no matter the doctor.

my doctor sent me at 27 and then back again for more tests because they are not always accurate dependant on the time of day that you go. based on my experience and most people who have commented in this thread it shouldn't be that hard

[Darkane]

Mod,

I'm going to try and be politically correct here. Do not go to female doctors for men's health maintenance.

They just don't have a vested interest.

That said, please seek yourself an enthusiastic male GP. They will work with you more closely. Also prescreen them, ask if they have younger patients on hormone replacment.

My doctor in ft mcmurray was awesome. Now I have to find a new GP in calgary. When I do maybe ill repost in this thread.

[Waldi]

Originally posted by sabad66
If you're so unhappy with the socialist system, why not take matters into your own hands and fly to the US and go to a private lab that will do this for you? Isn't that how capitalists do things?

ditto!

[klumsy_tumbler]

Originally posted by Modelexis

I've obviously got some vitamin or chemical brain deficiency that should be looked into ASAP.

:werd:

You wanted advice on getting tests that you wanted done, and beyonders provided their input.

Your ranting about socialism and whatnot gives me a better understanding about why your doctor said "No"...

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by klumsy_tumbler
You wanted advice on getting tests that you wanted done, and beyonders provided their input.

Your ranting about socialism and whatnot gives me a better understanding about why your doctor said "No"...

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're a girl?

Drives a corolla, pink avatar, no real opinions or thoughts of substance, klumsy tumbler sounds like a lesbian sexual position.

AMIRITE?

I'm also going to guess your age is between 19-25

[msommers]

Originally posted by Darkane
Mod,

I'm going to try and be politically correct here. Do not go to female doctors for men's health maintenance.

They just don't have a vested interest.

That said, please seek yourself an enthusiastic male GP. They will work with you more closely. Also prescreen them, ask if they have younger patients on hormone replacment.

My doctor in ft mcmurray was awesome. Now I have to find a new GP in calgary. When I do maybe ill repost in this thread.

I think it's a case-by-case basis. I've had my GP for the last..10 years now..and she's great. I've been getting blood testings for years now, no issues getting sent to specialists, encourages physicals (already I know). Nothing comes back but it's just routine stuff to me now. I know she's very concerned about test levels and thyroid and so are more common problem areas with men (apparently).

As a general rule, you might be correct but given my experience I just cannot agree 100%. Who knows, she might be a rare case. We spend lots of time just chatting about how I've been, how's family etc. Needless to say, when I have appointment for 1pm, there is no point in showing up until 1:30pm haha.

[Modelexis]

Dang, sounds like you got a good one.
I'm going to have to call around my area to see if anyone is accepting new patients. Kinda ridiculous thing to have to beg a doctor to accept a customer..

Found a website that looks up any nearby doctors that area accepting but nothing in my T2K area - I might just have to call and beg.

[CompletelyNumb]

Ditto everyone else. I tell my doc what bloodwork I want done and why, and he fills out the paperwork for me to take to the lab. Never had an issue.

[klumsy_tumbler]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're a girl?

Drives a corolla, pink avatar, no real opinions or thoughts of substance, klumsy tumbler sounds like a lesbian sexual position.

AMIRITE?

I'm also going to guess your age is between 19-25

Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I am within the age range that you guessed. Good job.

However, that in no way implies that I have "no real opinions or thoughts of substance". Also, what's wrong with driving a Corolla?

Congratulations, sir. You have just shown yourself to be a massive male chauvinistic douche.

[speedog]

Ooh, do like this newbie what with calling out Modelexis and all.

[Lex350]

She got him pegged real quick lol

[colinxx235]

yah lexis is a tiny dicked tool. beaking a '12 corolla xrs when he drives an old shit bucket prelude

among pretty much every other opinion he has

[Darkane]

Originally posted by msommers


I think it's a case-by-case basis. I've had my GP for the last..10 years now..and she's great. I've been getting blood testings for years now, no issues getting sent to specialists, encourages physicals (already I know). Nothing comes back but it's just routine stuff to me now. I know she's very concerned about test levels and thyroid and so are more common problem areas with men (apparently).

As a general rule, you might be correct but given my experience I just cannot agree 100%. Who knows, she might be a rare case. We spend lots of time just chatting about how I've been, how's family etc. Needless to say, when I have appointment for 1pm, there is no point in showing up until 1:30pm haha.

No you're right.

What I meant is for example a female endocrinologist will have a moral duty to fix the problem.

Let's say its testosterone levels.

Now, would she or is she even open to the idea that it COULD be adrenal related? Answer is probably not.

See specialists are very tunnel visioned when it comes to treatment. So without writing a three page post on cause and effect I'll just summarize.

You're likely the exception not the rule. When I say an enthusiastic GP, I've gotten AM AND PM testosterone tests In the same day, free t3, t4 thyroid tests, estradiol.

All of it. The work I had to do was provide actual medical proof in the form of studies and written papers by medical professionals and he was ok with it.

Putting in some time on your end helps as well.

If your doc TRULY cares, never let her go!

[timdog]

Originally posted by Modelexis
I had a physical done and a form to get a blood/urine test but the only things she checked off on the form was CBC, U (urine), blood sugar, and TSH (thyroid)

Sounds like I got boned.

you can just go ahead and check more things on that requisition. go nuts. seriously.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Had an interesting talk with my doctor today.

Initially I had booked to get a blood test to measure hormonal levels and vitamin levels. Straight forward enough it seemed to me but obviously I had underestimated the power of state socialism.

Doc informed me that they don't do these tests and will not do these tests. Even if they sent the lab a request for these tests they would not be performed.
I was told that there was no reason for me to want to know this information. She also could not refer me to a non-state socialist entity that could perform these tests privately.

No luck, but worth a shot at least I guess.

I thought while on the subject I would mention the private entities that analyze your DNA from a saliva sample.
Really struck a nerve with this one.
I got as far as mentioning saliva and she cut me off, said 'don't go there' and 'this places are a business' and 'this is not medically proven'

So according to my doctor, any private company that tests saliva is working outside the realm of the field of medicine and science.

She could be correct, and I might just not have found the articles that prove this stuff is quackery, but I'm interested if anyone else has come across this and confirmed if it's accurate or not.
I didn't push the issue, because I had not done my due diligence to look before hand at any public articles debunking this practice.

The place I was introduced to this idea was at a talk held at the Telus science center and the speaker wasn't challenged or laughed out of the room so I assumed it wasn't a big joke.

The type of thing I'm talking about is places like 23andme that require a saliva sample and can give you an analysis about a certain number of DNA markers.


Back to your original post question...

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/firm+ordered+halt+sale+collection+systems/9211666/story.html

[Modelexis]

Interesting, you would think it would be quite easy to do a double blind test to see if the results are accurate.

Have 1 person give several samples, and mail them all in from different locations in the world etc and see if the info that comes back is the same or different.

The article doesn't say that the science has been disproved it just says that it has not been approved by the FDA. Which doesn't mean that it's not science, it just means that it's not approved by the FDA.

I would be very interested to see an actual scientist reviewing/debunking the service.

Thus far I have not found any articles that debunk the service.


According to Yale Professor of Anthropology Brenda Bradley, 23andme’s social network “is an interesting idea that would promote broader public interest in genomics, which is always a good thing.

http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/23andme-a-genetic-social-network/

from wiki:
In 2008, Time magazine named the company's saliva-based DNA-testing service as the "Invention of the Year". The service and ability to map significant portions of the genome has raised controversial questions including whether the results can be interpreted meaningfully, and whether they will lead to genetic discrimination.

The states of New York and California unsuccessfully attempted to block such tests (provided by 23andMe as well as other companies) under the grounds that they were not properly licensed[2] and attempted to require tests to be conducted only when ordered by a physician.[15][16] By August 2008, 23andMe had received licenses that allow them to continue to do business in California.[17]


Whenever I'm skeptical about something I type in "xxxx debunked" into google and usually get some good alternate views but for 23andme I haven't found a single article debunking the service.


Where the article says:
troubled doctors and health officials, who worry that the products are built on flimsy science.

That is just an empty statement, they 'worry' that it's built on flimsy science, where is the proof?
Science is about proof, not adjectives or worry.

lmao

If you wanna talk about flimsy, how about trying to debunk science by calling it names like 'flimsy'

I worry that FDA approved anti-depressants are built on flimsy science, does that make me a scientist?

I think some of the skepticism might be around not that they are able to map the DNA from saliva samples but that they are interpreting that map and giving you info based on trends in DNA from other people that seem to be linked to x y z.
Which I would also be skeptical about.