$900 Bitcoin

[ZenOps]

http://www.geekwire.com/2013/bitcoin-surges-alltime-high-800-government-discusses-legitimacy-digital-currency/

It is a zero sum game, as are all currencies.

But $900 is pretty impressive for something that is completely utterly - virtual.

[AndyL]

FFS... And I was selling them at 2-300 not so long ago... DAMNIT!

:banghead:

[Tram Common]

I remember when Bitcoin first became available to purchase, I thought about buying the base amount you could buy off "vendors" ... I think it was like, $55.00... anyways... I nearly did, just for fun... then I didn't...

I'm sure a lot of people out there have similar stories, but, ya... le fuck. :cry:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Did the value shoot up after millions of "value" in them vanished?

[AndyL]

No the US Fed reserve chairman made some statement supporting the currency...
http://www.businessinsider.com/ben-bernanke-on-bitcoin-2013-11



The beautiful thing about Bitcoin, digital currency enthusiasts will tell you, is that it doesn't have a central bank.
So with eyes on today's Bitcoin Senate hearing, where does the world's most powerful central banker stand on the elusive cryptocurrency?

Now we know. Ahead of the meeting, U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has released a letter to help guide the senate. Quartz's Zachary Seward called it a "cautious blessing," with Bernanke acknowledging the Fed doesn't have the authority to supervise virtual currencies, but that they "may hold long-term promise, particularly if the innovations promote a faster, more secure and more efficient payment system.”

Here's Bernanke's full letter (via Quartz):

Dear Senators:
Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding virtual currencies. As you noted, virtual currencies have been receiving increased attention from U.S. authorities over the past several months.

Historically, virtual currencies have been viewed as a form of “electronic money” or area of payment system technology that has been evolving over the past 20 years. Over time, these types of innovations have received attention from Congress as well as U.S. regulators. For example, in 1995, the U.S. House of Representatives held hearings on “the future of money” at which early versions of virtual currencies and other innovations were discussed. Vice Chairman Alan Blinder’s testimony at that time made the key point that while these types of innovations may pose risks related to law enforcement and supervisory matters, there are also areas in which they may hold long-term promise, particularly if the innovations promote a faster, more secure and more efficient payment system.

Although the Federal Reserve generally monitors developments in virtual currencies and other payments system innovations, it does not necessarily have authority to directly supervise or regulate these innovations or the entities that provide them to the market. In general, the Federal Reserve would only have authority to regulate a virtual currency product if it is issued by, or cleared or settled through, a banking organization that we supervise. Given the Federal Reserve”s authority and the manner in which virtual currencies have developed, the Federal Reserve has focused primarily on a supervised banking organization’s role in the products’ sale and distribution, as well as the applicable regulations, such as Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) /anti-money laundering (AML) requirements.

Policies, Procedures, Guidance or Advisories

In March 2013, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network issued guidance to clarify that an administrator or exchanger of virtual currency is generally considered a money transmitter under definitions and therefore subject to BSA requirements?’ The Federal Reserve’s supervisory expectations and guidance related to compliance for bank transactions using virtual currencies have been incorporated into the Electronic Cash section of the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC) Examination Manual. The overall objective of the guidance and examination procedures provided in this section is to assess the adequacy of a bank’s systems to manage the risks associated with electronic cash and management’s ability to implement effective monitoring and reporting systems. The section further lists applicable risk factors and risk mitigation steps for banks to consider. The Federal Reserve supervision staff has on–going initiatives with the FFIEC member agencies to identify additional areas of concern that require heightened attention by the banking organizations we supervise.

Ongoing Coordination

In May 2013, the US. Department of the Treasury (Treasury) named Liberty Reserve S.A. as a financial institution of primary money laundering concern under Section 311 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Section 31l).4 ‘According to the announcement, Liberty Reserve, a web–based money transfer system or “virtual currency,” was specifically designed and frequently used to facilitate money laundering in cyber space. This action also marked the first use of Section 311 authorities against a virtual currency provider.

The statutory language of Section 311 requires Treasury to consult with the Federal Reserve Board when these special measures are being developed and proposed. Therefore, Federal Reserve Board staff participated in coordination and consultation efforts leading up to the designation of the virtual currency provider, Liberty Reserve, under Section 311.

Specific Plans or Strategies

As noted above, the Federal Reserve plans to work with other FFIEC member agencies on electronic cash and related issues such as virtual currencies, as needed, for banking organizations. The Federal Reserve will continue to monitor developments as part of its broad interest in the safety and efficiency of the payment system. We also stand ready to cooperate with other agencies in fulfilling their mandates, as appropriate.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,

[Ben Bernanke]

[Modelexis]

I was only involved early on so I only doubled my money before cashing out so it sucks that I didn't stay on the rollercoaster but I'm glad to see it gain traction, I just hope the crash isn't too bad for the people getting in late.

[Xtrema]

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/18/btc-china-series-a/

China is big on it. More free than renmanbi. US may fear lost control of world currency status.

[revelations]

I would recommend investing in most of the major crypto currencies that have a fair market cap - sure the downside can be 100% loss, but the upside can be 100,000% gain .... :eek:

http://coinmarketcap.com/

[Modelexis]

I want a crash now so I can re-join the madness.

[Isaiah]

We recently wrote about a_Seattle grilled cheese foodtruck_that is now accepting Bitcoin and also noted how the world’s first Bitcoin ATM was_just installed_in Vancouver, B.C.

Would be interested to understand how the transaction works when you pay for a $2.95 grilled cheese sandwich with a $900 Bitcoin.

[ZenOps]

Internet digital currencies are not new.

Flooz was around a long time ago, but did go to zero.

What I think makes Bitcoin different is timing. Everyone is looking for a way to either abandon or get out of the US dollar somehow, Europeans are looking to shelter against their own troubled union.

I'm not looking forward to the day that 60% of the worlds currency goes to zero (The US dollar) but would not be totally unprepared or surprised at it happening either.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Would be interested to understand how the transaction works when you pay for a $2.95 grilled cheese sandwich with a $900 Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is divisible to at least 8 decimal places.
You can pay someone .0000001 bitcoin depending on the market price of 1 bitcoin.

For example, my account reads:
Your exact balance is 0.00000000BTC

lol

Thought I would check my acct in case I had an old carry over of .001 bitcoin or something.
No luck.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Would be interested to understand how the transaction works when you pay for a $2.95 grilled cheese sandwich with a $900 Bitcoin.
"That'll be .00328 bitcoins please." :angel:

fakk I remember a year or two ago these were worth $5. shoulda woulda coulda

[4DoorGTZ]

Brings the total dollar value I've mined to over a million, total realized gain is only 1-2% of todays value :(

[Modelexis]

I can just imagine the mining rigs people are setting up right this minute.

lmao

[Jeeper1986]

wait and buy CN rail shares the shares are going to split soon

[JRSC00LUDE]

Without getting into a diatribe of how phony our real currencies are, someone explain to me how I could ever realize the "value" of this?

How can I use it to buy a car? Or a house? Or pay my kids tuition? Or get gas? Or groceries?

[4DoorGTZ]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Without getting into a diatribe of how phony our real currencies are, someone explain to me how I could ever realize the "value" of this?

How can I use it to buy a car? Or a house? Or pay my kids tuition? Or get gas? Or groceries?

www.agoracomodities.com or www.amagimetals.com

Sell your BTC for precious metals, hold on to those. When the day comes you need $cad for a large purchase sell your precious metals.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Without getting into a diatribe of how phony our real currencies are, someone explain to me how I could ever realize the "value" of this?

How can I use it to buy a car? Or a house? Or pay my kids tuition? Or get gas? Or groceries?

Unless you're buying drugs and guns online (are there other sites selling other than Silk Road now?) I don't think you can. From what I've heard, people have a bitch of a time just cashing out just $100 worth of bitcoins; good luck getting thousands+ out of it.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by Modelexis
I can just imagine the mining rigs people are setting up right this minute.

lmao

Its a perfect fit for Canada and a cold climate. Why bother plugging in a 1500 watt heater when you can run six or seven bitcoin miners?

"Waste" heat isn't wasted in Canada for half of the year.

Bitcoining in Texas and Arizona = waste of money.

[ZenOps]

Very difficult to convert to US dollars yes.

But that is the appeal to many. Many want to be outside the US dollar system.

Many don't know it, but technically nickel is taxed in Canada if you use it at a value other than face value (IE: every coin from 5-cent to toonie is technically, taxable in itself just by exchange of hands.)

IE: Technically, if you use a toonie at a value of $2.01, you are required to give 10.05 cents to the government every time it changes hands regardless of what you buy with it. Likewise, everytime you use a credit card, more than likely 3% is going to the credit card company for every transaction, even if it just bounces between people.

Side note: I'm not too sure, but I believe that copper and iron were never specifically stated as being taxable on exchange, which means pennies were tax exempt (very unlike nickels to toonies)

It does make sense when you consider that historically, the penny was the payment for farmers, and even in the US - they measure and tax farm payrolls and non-farm payrolls completely differently

Bitcoin won't pay the bills, not yet.

[sabad66]

It's not difficult to convert to real cash. Go to www.cavirtex.com and sell your coins, then transfer the CAD to your bank account.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Without getting into a diatribe of how phony our real currencies are, someone explain to me how I could ever realize the "value" of this?

How can I use it to buy a car? Or a house? Or pay my kids tuition? Or get gas? Or groceries?

The currency is only a few years old.
It's gaining traction.

Some subway stores accept bitcoin, people have been starting to buy property with bitcoin.
There was a guy in Calgary that was accepting bitcoin to buy his house.

shopify.com is accepting bitcoin, they're sorta like amazon.

So ya, the market is working hard to spread the uses. give it a few years.

[RickDaTuner]

Jesus with the swings bitcoin values takes daily, daytraders must be ll over this.
Makes me wish I still had a day trader portfolio.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Without getting into a diatribe of how phony our real currencies are, someone explain to me how I could ever realize the "value" of this?

How can I use it to buy a car? Or a house? Or pay my kids tuition? Or get gas? Or groceries?

Apparently, a real estate developer started to accept it in Shanghai.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
Jesus with the swings bitcoin values takes daily, daytraders must be ll over this.
Makes me wish I still had a day trader portfolio.

well yeah, you don't actually think people buy bitcoin to use as an "alternative currency" do you? lol. People buy bitcoin at $500 so they can sell it at $600. Not for some altruistic vision of a decentralized anonymous currency for fighting the power elite. For every bitcoin nerd that is invested in the idea you have 10000 other people buying and selling this thing like a casino game. Greater fool mentality and a classic bubble. Look like a genius when its going up, look like an idiot when it crashes back down.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by BigMass

Look like a genius when its going up, look like an idiot when it crashes back down.

Not really, nobody ever mentions when they lose, lol. Just like casino gamblers, or VLT addicts.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Not really, nobody ever mentions when they lose, lol. Just like casino gamblers, or VLT addicts.

That's the thing though, even when it's loosing value and you bought on an upswing; selling it, then shorting it on the down swing would still gain profit. The gamble is on knowing when it will swing back. But a good day trader will easily anticipate that.

[ZenOps]

The day that the US recognizes it as a legitimate currency is the day it plummets. Either that or it will go defunct.

No way to tell. But you could convert one bitcoin for nine $98 HDTV's at walmart.

Massive deflation in retail this year. Not really a good sign for an economy based on consumption.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Not really, nobody ever mentions when they lose, lol. Just like casino gamblers, or VLT addicts.

... or amateur day traders

[Kobe]

I'm so verifying myself to invest in bitcoin, I've been meaning to do it for a few weeks now, so choked it went up so high today but YOLO baby let's get this shit on the road, hopefully I can get verified with my small amount of papers I got here in Europe!


My buddy told me to watch this video earlier today, haven't watched it yet but he said I need 2 understand it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9-lAYngi4

[khanan]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Not really, nobody ever mentions when they lose, lol. Just like casino gamblers, or VLT addicts.

THIS^ I saw soo many posts of people on news websites, saying how they bought it for $50 in August 2012 and sold it now. Like yeah right.

Just a noob questions, lets say I have bitcoins and I wan't to sell them in person or I have CAD and I wanna buy bitcoins in person using cash, how would that work?

[AndyL]

Well if you really wanted physical - you'd hit up that ATM in vancouver...

Otherwise... Coinbase, MTGOX - there's a number of established exchanges where you can do it online fairly easily. but do your research, one i can think of hasn't been doing so good this year - even if it was rock solid in years past.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by khanan


THIS^ I saw soo many posts of people on news websites, saying how they bought it for $50 in August 2012 and sold it now. Like yeah right.

Just a noob questions, lets say I have bitcoins and I wan't to sell them in person or I have CAD and I wanna buy bitcoins in person using cash, how would that work?

You could meet up with someone with a laptop and somewhere with wifi. Send them the bitcoins to their e-wallet, take their cash and be done.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by khanan


THIS^ I saw soo many posts of people on news websites, saying how they bought it for $50 in August 2012 and sold it now. Like yeah right.

Just curious why you think these people are lying? It's 100% possible.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by pheoxs


You could meet up with someone with a laptop and somewhere with wifi. Send them the bitcoins to their e-wallet, take their cash and be done.
Pretty much. You can use https://localbitcoins.com for this or the ATMs when they make their way to Calgary.

But really I think the best way is to use an online exchange. Cavirtex is based in Calgary and can link to your Canadian bank account. Transfer CAD in/out, buy BTC inside the exchange.

[eatrice]

Can someone explain what exactly a bitcoin is. Since its a virtual currency made by a random person, can't they just add a whole bunch more bitcoins, or dilute the value and make himself a billionaire..?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by eatrice
Can someone explain what exactly a bitcoin is. Since its a virtual currency made by a random person, can't they just add a whole bunch more bitcoins, or dilute the value and make himself a billionaire..?

The way I understand it, it has no value. But as more service providers accept it, it creates demand and value. But how do you really price something that worth $500 and $900 within 12hrs is beyond me.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by eatrice
Can someone explain what exactly a bitcoin is. Since its a virtual currency made by a random person, can't they just add a whole bunch more bitcoins, or dilute the value and make himself a billionaire..?

You are mistaking bitcoins for canadian and US fiat currency.
These currencies are made by a random person, and they can just add a whole bunch more dollars and dilute the value and make themselves billionaires.

Bitcoin does not operate in this manner.

I would suggest doing some research for yourself on google since it's a technology based currency you should at least get familiar with using a search engine.

I do find it kinda humorous that your biggest gripes about a currency are all true for the currency you are currently using.

Screw bitcoin, you should first learn how Canadian currency works.

[eatrice]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You are mistaking bitcoins for canadian and US fiat currency.
These currencies are made by a random person, and they can just add a whole bunch more dollars and dilute the value and make themselves billionaires.

Bitcoin does not operate in this manner.

I would suggest doing some research for yourself on google since it's a technology based currency you should at least get familiar with using a search engine.

I do find it kinda humorous that your biggest gripes about a currency are all true for the currency you are currently using.

Screw bitcoin, you should first learn how Canadian currency works.

Okay, so rather than stating the obvious, some more useful info would be helpful.

[powerslave]

Good luck with that request - all you'll get will be "wake up sheeple, critical thinking, spoonfed, think for yourself" blah blah blah.

[triplep]

Originally posted by Modelexis

Bitcoin does not operate in this manner.



So how does it operate? People go online and "mine" bitcoins and from nothing comes something? So your saying that some random person did not create bitcoins? Nor the fact that they had issues with them early on and people could make an unlimited amount of coins themselves?


This would be the equivalent of making a beyond$. For each post made, a member gets .0001 cent of a beyond$. These dollars can be used to purchase shit like custom colored font etc, and then it would also most likely have value, because someone one would want to buy your beyond$. So what is the difference between a bitcoin and a beyond$?

[Chandler_Racing]

Use to work in this industry.

The part I don't understand is how they're allowed to create a virtual currency with a e-money license.

Recall that being a big no-no but could have been mistaken...

[xNinjai23]

Originally posted by triplep



So how does it operate? People go online and "mine" bitcoins and from nothing comes something? So your saying that some random person did not create bitcoins? Nor the fact that they had issues with them early on and people could make an unlimited amount of coins themselves?


This would be the equivalent of making a beyond$. For each post made, a member gets .0001 cent of a beyond$. These dollars can be used to purchase shit like custom colored font etc, and then it would also most likely have value, because someone one would want to buy your beyond$. So what is the difference between a bitcoin and a beyond$?


Correct me if im wrong, but the bitcoin has a limit of 21 million that can ever be generated, the algorithm or what not behind it of how it works as a peer to peer currency prevents the bitcoin from counterfeiting or something, thats the appealing aspect of it, the limit is 21 million and thats it, the complexed algorithm and how it works stops people from you say
"make unlimited supply for themselves"

Maybe its possible but it probably require some amazing skills in programming and an deep understanding of exactly how it works

[eatrice]

Originally posted by xNinjai23



Correct me if im wrong, but the bitcoin has a limit of 21 million that can ever be generated, the algorithm or what not behind it of how it works as a peer to peer currency prevents the bitcoin from counterfeiting or something, thats the appealing aspect of it, the limit is 21 million and thats it, the complexed algorithm and how it works stops people from you say
"make unlimited supply for themselves"

Maybe its possible but it probably require some amazing skills in programming and an deep understanding of exactly how it works

Wiki says 12 million in existence. That makes more sense now. But then again, how hard could it be for someone to change that algorithm? From what you said, it sounds pretty easy to do if you are the makers of this. Would it even violate any law?

[ZenOps]

The way I understand it is that the bitcoins become exponentially hard to mine as time goes on.

The first bitcoin might have taken 1 second to mine, the 1000th took a minute, the 1,000,000th coin took a day, etc.

It exactly the same as real mining, where the first nickel ever made was simply scraped from the surface of the earth (and relatively inexpensive) A nickel produced in 2013 probably came from 7,800 feet under the ground at exponentially more cost than the first one.

In such a way is that fair? Not really, as those in geographically cold climates aren't really wasting energy (especially if you use electricity for heating) by trying to mine bitcoins.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Use to work in this industry.

The part I don't understand is how they're allowed to create a virtual currency with a e-money license.

Recall that being a big no-no but could have been mistaken...

because as far as I know governments don't yet consider bitcoin a currency much like in the way gold in world of warcraft is not considered a real currency but many people use it as such. Once governments get their hands on it and start regulating it, it could really cause a shit storm

[BigMass]

problem with bitcoin is that nobody needs it. People need US dollars, Canadian dollars etc. Bitcoin is something gamblers use to speculate and CAN be used as a form of currency. But it's pretty useless as a currency now because it doesn't have a consistant enough value. Nobody that isn't just a media whore is going to sell you their house for $900 bitcoin when tomorrow it could be $10 bitcoin. That's a terrible characteristic of a currency.

Another problem is that, while bitcoin may be limited, crypto currencies are not. It's just a popularity contest. What if Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber come out tomorrow with their own crypto currencies that function just like bitcoin? Why use Bitcoin when you can use Beibercoin? Really you can have 1000000000000 different virtual currencies. One week bitcoin might be the latest fad, the next week Gagabux might be the next fad. There is NO REASON that bitcoin would hold any value because it's %100 arbitrary and based on NOTHING but a greater fool mentality. People that compare it to government fiat or gold etc have absolutely no clue about money and currency

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by eatrice
Wiki says 12 million in existence. That makes more sense now. But then again, how hard could it be for someone to change that algorithm? From what you said, it sounds pretty easy to do if you are the makers of this. Would it even violate any law?

I don't know the answer to the question of whether the algorithm can be manipulated but if it could be so easily manipulated someone would have done that by now.

Again, you are terrified that it might turn out like the Canadian dollar, which I think is fine but you should recognize that and not judge it so harshly.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by BigMass
problem with bitcoin is that nobody needs it. People need US dollars, Canadian dollars etc. Bitcoin is something gamblers use to speculate and CAN be used as a form of currency. But it's pretty useless as a currency now because it doesn't have a consistant enough value. Nobody that isn't just a media whore is going to sell you their house for $900 bitcoin when tomorrow it could be $10 bitcoin. That's a terrible characteristic of a currency.


It sounds like you're judging a currency in its infancy without recognizing that the future is unknown.
Do we really need CAD? couldn't we all just adopt USD?

It may be somewhat useless now as a currency, but a lot of currencies are useless as a currency when they're first introduced into a market with a currency monopoly.

I don't really understand the frustration people have talking about bitcoin. If you think it's a terrible idea you just have to avoid them and keep your money in CAD or whatever you use.

full disclosure, I don't own any bitcoins so I'm not speaking from any self-interest position.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis


It sounds like you're judging a currency in its infancy without recognizing that the future is unknown.
Do we really need CAD? couldn't we all just adopt USD?

It may be somewhat useless now as a currency, but a lot of currencies are useless as a currency when they're first introduced into a market with a currency monopoly.

currencies were introduced, they were instantly backed by gold, they had intrinsic value. People knew what they could get for their currency. Unless you have something like the Continental or Zimbabwe money that's backed by nothing and completely worthless. Now currency is not backed by gold but it's backed by guns and the initiation of force. You NEED Canadian money. Why? Because if you don't pay your taxes, people with guns will come to your house and lock you up. It's the same for any governmental currency. That's what gives it value. You need those currencies. You do not need, and never will need, bitcoin. Somehow the technocratic pseudointellectual wing of anarchists and libertarians decided that they found their new messiah and that bitcoin is now their "new gold". No it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, gambling mechanism and a greater fool device.

[eatrice]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I don't know the answer to the question of whether the algorithm can be manipulated but if it could be so easily manipulated someone would have done that by now.

Again, you are terrified that it might turn out like the Canadian dollar, which I think is fine but you should recognize that and not judge it so harshly.

How do you know someone isn't doing that right now? They aren't going to hyperinflate the currency in a matter of 5 minutes. They can't spend it that fast.

I'm not saying its going to be like the CAD?? Don't know how you interpreted that.

What I'm saying is that bitcoin can have the potential to be the perfect scam. Is there a possibility that someone can just code or "mine" more? Yes. We don't even know who made this thing. So if that person does, can they get away with it? Yes. The US already said they are not regulating it, so who is? Nobody.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by BigMass
currencies were introduced, they were instantly backed by gold, they had intrinsic value. People knew what they could get for their currency. Unless you have something like the Continental or Zimbabwe money that's backed by nothing and completely worthless. Now currency is not backed by gold but it's backed by guns and the initiation of force. You NEED Canadian money. Why? Because if you don't pay your taxes, people with guns will come to your house and lock you up. It's the same for any governmental currency. That's what gives it value. You need those currencies. You do not need, and never will need, bitcoin. Somehow the technocratic pseudointellectual wing of anarchists and libertarians decided that they found their new messiah and that bitcoin is now their "new gold". No it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, gambling mechanism and a greater fool device.

I think that's all true for the most part, but I disagree that there is no need and will be no need in the future for an alternate currency that is able to side step the monopoly money.

One situation might be if you want to leave the country and the govt puts a maximum amount of currency you can leave the country with you may want a way to transfer your wealth out of the country. Bitcoin might be one way to do this easily.
Might not be a valid example but just to illustrate that there may be a clever use for it.

[ZenOps]

The argument is, that Bitcoin is based on something of value.

Computing power, access to, and mastery of.

You need to prove that you have the infrastructure to mine a bitcoin. Canadian dollars are based on nickel, US dollars are based on copper, Bitcoin is based on computing power.

Its arguable that some of the most important discoveries of the future will be based on pure computing power. Cure for cancer, search for aliens, physics models for cold fusion, etc..

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I think that's all true for the most part, but I disagree that there is no need and will be no need in the future for an alternate currency that is able to side step the monopoly money.

One situation might be if you want to leave the country and the govt puts a maximum amount of currency you can leave the country with you may want a way to transfer your wealth out of the country. Bitcoin might be one way to do this easily.
Might not be a valid example but just to illustrate that there may be a clever use for it.

I agree and I understand the value in a crypto currency and I understand how they work. The problem I have is there is no limit on how many different crypto currencies there can be. Sure bitcoin is first to market but what's stopping Apple, Google or a major bank from creating their own crypto currency and possibly integrating it on a more convenient personal level. What if ING created a crypto currency and let people use their online accounts to buy and sell them from anywhere in the world to anonymous wallets. Or Amazon let you purchase things from their website only using amazon crypto currency. Heck if that were the case that would have more use than bitcoin does currently in terms of buying something. A bank crypto currency might make it easier to convert it to another nation's fiat a lot easier than having to go through a bitcoin exchange. Again... crypto currency? sure.. but.. why bitcoin? If the only answer is "just because it's what's currently popular and "in fad" Then I just don't see reason to buy and hold it as an "investment" like people think they're doing now and then posting on internet forums convincing people how they should buy bitcoin now because its going up up up and it'll hit a million dollars soon. Sure maybe it'll hit a million, maybe it'll hit 1 cent again. You just can't predict human trends and collective fads like that.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The argument is, that Bitcoin is based on something of value.

Computing power, access to, and mastery of.

You need to prove that you have the infrastructure to mine a bitcoin. Canadian dollars are based on nickel, US dollars are based on copper, Bitcoin is based on computing power.

Its arguable that some of the most important discoveries of the future will be based on pure computing power. Cure for cancer, search for aliens, physics models for cold fusion, etc..

computing power / energy has no value in the sense that you describe it. The value is what you do with it. Information has value. The cure for cancer will come from information not from electrons traveling through a circuit.

Now you're right, bitcoin has value. Currently around $600... tomorrow maybe $10, or maybe $1000. Personally that's not something I'd use or hold as a currency, and I have really bad luck at gambling... so that's the only reason why I'm out.

[Modelexis]

I think you could have made that argument about tcp/ip packets or search engines back in the day when the internet started.

You might not have bought stocks in google cause you didn't think one single engine could maintain a majority use status in the market.
History has proven that even though there is major diversity, people tend to stick to popular trends and sometimes they become quite loyal to those trends to the point that one search engine can easily maintain a majority market hold.

Not that bitcoin is at all comparable to a search engine company but just to use a broad example.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis
I think you could have made that argument about tcp/ip packets or search engines back in the day when the internet started.

You might not have bought stocks in google cause you didn't think one single engine could maintain a majority use status in the market.
History has proven that even though there is major diversity, people tend to stick to popular trends and sometimes they become quite loyal to those trends to the point that one search engine can easily maintain a majority market hold.

but that's making my point. Is bitcoin = google? no, because nobody was using google when the internet was getting going. People used webcrawler, lycos and all that junk. What if bitcoin is webcrawler and the crypto currency equivalent of google hasn't even started yet?

[Modelexis]

I think the case could be made more strongly for bitcoin since so much money is already invested in the currency. People have personal stakes in the success of bitcoin.
Maybe if altavista became popular by people putting their savings in the company they could have maintained a major presence in the industry.

It could be one of those 'first to market wins' type of situations, like the foreman grill. :)

Bitcoin is very risky though, no denying that.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by eatrice


How do you know someone isn't doing that right now? They aren't going to hyperinflate the currency in a matter of 5 minutes. They can't spend it that fast.

I'm not saying its going to be like the CAD?? Don't know how you interpreted that.

What I'm saying is that bitcoin can have the potential to be the perfect scam. Is there a possibility that someone can just code or "mine" more? Yes. We don't even know who made this thing. So if that person does, can they get away with it? Yes. The US already said they are not regulating it, so who is? Nobody.
You can't "code more bitcoins". Every transaction (including mining) is public and sent to what is called as the "blockchain". Every miner has a copy of the entire blockchain, so you can't randomly say you have 10 bitcoins because there is no history of it in the blockchain. That is why it is a "p2p currency".

[Xtrema]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/22/virgin-galactic-bitcoin-space-flight/

Bitcoin can now get you to space/near space.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by sabad66

You can't "code more bitcoins". Every transaction (including mining) is public and sent to what is called as the "blockchain". Every miner has a copy of the entire blockchain, so you can't randomly say you have 10 bitcoins because there is no history of it in the blockchain. That is why it is a "p2p currency".

Exactly, the only way someone can screw with the system is a 51% attack which is basically someone would need to control over half of all the hashing power to fork the block chain.

But with the network hash rate currently at 4762.23 terahashes per second and a 2 terahash/s machine is 6k$ so you'd be needing to buy up 5 million $ worth of ASIC's just to catch up to the current hash rate. But the rate has been rising 10% per 2 weeks and those ASICs take months to order / receive.

Currently the network difficulty is 600k, rough predictions indicate by Feb/March it will be around 6million with the new cointerra ASIC's coming out. At that point one would need ~50 million worth of ASIC's to get 51% and so on and so forth.

[Xtrema]

Another heist, $1M.

http://gizmodo.com/1-million-heist-reminds-us-that-bitcoin-is-neither-saf-1471242180

[Mibz]

Sensationalist wording, but still hilarious.

[pheoxs]

I bought 3k of coins for shits and giggles expecting to lose them by next year but who knows, maybe it'll spike some more.

So far I'm at about 4.6k worth .... can't complain. I'm going to sell either way in May or April when I buy a house, was mostly for fun to see if it maybe spikes in value but fully expect it to be a waste of money. Will update periodically as things go...

[rage2]

Originally posted by pheoxs
I bought 3k of coins for shits and giggles expecting to lose them by next year but who knows, maybe it'll spike some more.

So far I'm at about 4.6k worth .... can't complain. I'm going to sell either way in May or April when I buy a house, was mostly for fun to see if it maybe spikes in value but fully expect it to be a waste of money. Will update periodically as things go...
Just curious, what's your IP address?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by rage2

Just curious, what's your IP address?

Mine? Probably varies, I surf on my phone and at work. So either whatever bell gives me or when I'm at work our work uses a VPN to our head office so probably some random IP in Milwaukee.

[AndyL]

Buying now? Timing may be a bit off :) I'd think she's at a high at the moment, not a low...

Now - it's interesting - litecoin's jumped from 2$ to 10$ in recent weeks... All the noise around bitcoin seems to be causing the #2 cryptocurrency to surge in value...

[sabad66]

Any good litecoin exchanges (preferably Canadian) that you know of? Would be cool to buy $300 or so worth and check back in a year :)

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by sabad66
Any good litecoin exchanges (preferably Canadian) that you know of? Would be cool to buy $300 or so worth and check back in a year :)

You could use Cavirtex to buy Bitcoins (BTC), then transfer them to BTC-E and buy Litecoins (LTC) with them.

[AndrewMZ3]

LTC broke $18 today. I've got a bunch sitting in a wallet I've forgotten the passphrase for haha. Anyone know of a decent bruteforce app that takes words/characters that you know are in the password and just tries all permutations?

[revelations]

^ how many characters do you think were in the password? If >12 it becomes nearly impossible.


For anyone else, get in on the Altcoins now - LTC is going up now, will probably crash again, and then go up more. Many other coins in the market making large gains as well. 10000% upside, 100% downside - no brainer if you have a little money to risk (eg. 400$).

[sabad66]

^ which exchange do you use to buy altcoins?

[sabad66]

Originally posted by pheoxs


You could use Cavirtex to buy Bitcoins (BTC), then transfer them to BTC-E and buy Litecoins (LTC) with them.
hmm... kinda looks sketchy especially based in Bulgaria.

Do you have experience with them? I guess I could always buy the coins and transfer to my personal wallet ASAP without ever actually holding anything in there.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by sabad66
^ which exchange do you use to buy altcoins?

Transfer bitcoins to BTC-E then purchase whichever Altcoins you wish on there is the easiest way.

Minor update: My litecoins are now at 7k$ in value. Not bad for a 3k$ investment.

Probably going to see a crash in the next month or so but I'm sure it'll level off or pick back up before spring again.

Also beware of the lack of regulation in the coin exchanges. There are many of the smaller alt coins getting boosted up then dumped. Two different alt coins gained 100%+ valve today and then lost all of that in a matter of 30 minutes because a bunch of people follow one guy on twitter and try to game the system.

Fortunately BTC/LTC seem to have enough volume they aren't affected nearly as much as the smaller coins.

Litecoin market cap is now at 260+ million today ... not too shabby.

Edit: Saw your second post, and yes that is correct. If you plan on trading a bunch then keep them there, but if you are just holding then transfer them to a different wallet and you don't have to worry about security. I think its a ~1.5$ withdrawl fee or something close to that.

[quick_scar]

Originally posted by sabad66

hmm... kinda looks sketchy especially based in Bulgaria.

Do you have experience with them? I guess I could always buy the coins and transfer to my personal wallet ASAP without ever actually holding anything in there.

This is my hesitation right now. Trying to sort out which exchanges are good and legit, and what is crap.

There is a bunch of stuff floating around reddit about "vaultofsatoshi" right now, but I am hesitant to send them the information they are requesting (ID, etc..) for verification as I am worried about my identity being stolen and crap.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by quick_scar


This is my hesitation right now. Trying to sort out which exchanges are good and legit, and what is crap.

There is a bunch of stuff floating around reddit about "vaultofsatoshi" right now, but I am hesitant to send them the information they are requesting (ID, etc..) for verification as I am worried about my identity being stolen and crap.

There is a store in town now selling them. You won't get all that great of rates compared to online but it does save the hassle of authentication / providing personal/bank info to random slightly sketchy companies.

[Modelexis]

I have experience with Cavirtex.
Nothing but positive things to say.

[AndrewMZ3]

Originally posted by revelations
^ how many characters do you think were in the password? If >12 it becomes nearly impossible.


For anyone else, get in on the Altcoins now - LTC is going up now, will probably crash again, and then go up more. Many other coins in the market making large gains as well. 10000% upside, 100% downside - no brainer if you have a little money to risk (eg. 400$).

Oh it's definitely >12 characters, but it's a combination of a few of my common passwords

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by AndrewMZ3


Oh it's definitely >12 characters, but it's a combination of a few of my common passwords

Maybe try reading through this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85495.0

Edit: Don't wanna double post so just editing this.

Litecoins now at 28+$. 10k$ on a 3k$ investment, not too shabby. Will it crash? Probably yeah, but I think it will also recover and go higher anyways, just a matter of time.

Edit2: Decided I'm happy with 10k for now. Withdrew it back to USD and going to sit on it for a few days and see what things level out to. Probably miss out on a bunch of gains but its been too crazy having back to back 100+% days to not have some kind of regression

Edit: Decided to buy back in at 27 (Sold at the first 30 peak), wished I'd waited until it dripped to 25 but oh well.

For keeping track sake. 350 Lite coins, last update was 36.5$ = 12600USD from a 3000CAD investment 6 days ago... this 'bubble' is ridiculious

[AndyL]

Qr77 has a Kensington bitcoin converter (brick n mortar) on at 2pm

And litecoin hit 50$ today (2$ 3 months ago)

[BigMass]

Originally posted by AndyL
Qr77 has a Kensington bitcoin converter (brick n mortar) on at 2pm

And litecoin hit 50$ today (2$ 3 months ago)

takes a special kind of person to take in $1300 cash (probably soon) and buy a "bitcoin" instead of buying an ounce of gold with that same amount of cash.

[CompletelyNumb]

An opportunist?

[Zhariak]

Anyone know any easy way for Canadian's to purchase some litecoins?

Is there an easy? Or we stuck with the processors that are used on most exchanges?

[spike98]

So i have a line on a ASIC 5 Ghash/s rig for about $500. I can have it next week. Is it too late in the game?

[kenny]

Too slow and will be useless early next year when these start coming online in numbers.

http://cointerra.com/product/terraminer-iv-2ths-networked-asic-miner-march-batch/

$3/Gh vs $100/Gh investment.

[ExtraSlow]

So I get that you can "mine" by performing calculations. But who's paying the money in at the other end? Is this someone paying to solve very tough industrial problems or something?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by Zhariak
Anyone know any easy way for Canadian's to purchase some litecoins?

Is there an easy? Or we stuck with the processors that are used on most exchanges?
You can either pay a fee and buy some locally with cash / debit at the bitcoin store or you can sign up for CaVirtex, get verified and deposit money directly into them.


Originally posted by ExtraSlow
So I get that you can "mine" by performing calculations. But who's paying the money in at the other end? Is this someone paying to solve very tough industrial problems or something?

Not per say. Mining actually runs the back bone of the bitcoin network (blockchain). By having all the miners it processes all the transactions, in turn they are rewarded with a fixed amount of bitcoins per block.

The rate is predetermined, there will be 25 bitcoins created every 10 minutes until the next halving (3 years I think), then 12.5 bitcoins / 10 min and half after that etc etc etc so that there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins in existence. (It's actually 20.9999 repeating)

[AndyL]

It's actually the blocks of data that run the system... The system kicks out bitcoins based on an algorythm - if you happen to process that block - you get the bitcoin (or as more typical your pool gets the bitcoin and it's divvied up amongst the members by processed amount etc)

The $ comes from the perceived value of the bitcoin - it's not backed up by anything other than processing power basically.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by pheoxs

You can either pay a fee and buy some locally with cash / debit at the bitcoin store or you can sign up for CaVirtex, get verified and deposit money directly into them.



Not per say. Mining actually runs the back bone of the bitcoin network (blockchain). By having all the miners it processes all the transactions, in turn they are rewarded with a fixed amount of bitcoins per block.

The rate is predetermined, there will be 25 bitcoins created every 10 minutes until the next halving (3 years I think), then 12.5 bitcoins / 10 min and half after that etc etc etc so that there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins in existence. (It's actually 20.9999 repeating)

Bitcoin store?

[sabad66]

Cavirtex only does bitcoins - not litecoins. Great exchange though. Would definitely recommend.

I am kicking myself for not jumping on litecoins a few days ago like I wanted. Fuuuuuuuuu

[Zhariak]

Snap,

Just found this "Bitcoin Store" that pheoxs mentioned.

URL: http://www.bitcoinbrains.com/

In Kensington apparently. Will be checking them out!

[Modelexis]

FML, BTC is like 1200 right now..


Originally posted by AndyL
It's not backed up by anything other than processing power basically.

I think to be more precise, it's the limitations of processing power that create a scarcity in the currency rather than 'back' the currency. The demand is what backs it at the moment and the scarcity is what creates that demand in part.

[BigMass]

just remember. The day bitcoin crashes back to $100 or under, it won't happen slowly to give everybody a chance to get out. Impossible to tell when the crash will happen because currently the pump and dump is in full pump mode. If you're a baller gambler and think you can buy high and sell higher then go for it. Just don't fool yourself and thinking this is anything more than gambling.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by BigMass
just remember. The day bitcoin crashes back to $100 or under, it won't happen slowly to give everybody a chance to get out. Impossible to tell when the crash will happen because currently the pump and dump is in full pump mode. If you're a baller gambler and think you can buy high and sell higher then go for it. Just don't fool yourself and thinking this is anything more than gambling.

On the other hand, historically speaking there have been crashes and the crashes have just led to larger bubbles.
So even if it did crash, who knows if the bubble would re inflate even higher the next time?

If it went to 100$ you don't think everyone and their mother would be buying?

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis


On the other hand, historically speaking there have been crashes and the crashes have just led to larger bubbles.
So even if it did crash, who knows if the bubble would re inflate even higher the next time?

If it went to 100$ you don't think everyone and their mother would be buying?

why would $100 be a number where everyone rushed to buy? bitcoin has no intrinsic value. nobody wanted bitcoin a year ago when it crashed to $1... so the value is arbitrary based on demand. If nobody wants it or needs it then the value is zero.

[Modelexis]

Yeah, but from a gambling standpoint, it has shown a potential to hit over $1000 so if it drops to 100$ it would seem like a good value to buy in.

I think if it ever did start to crash, as the price dropped you would have people trying to catch it by buying into BTC as the price got lower and lower, it might cushion the fall if/when there is a fall.

You keep bringing up this value of zero concept as if it is unique to bitcoin. If no one wants or needs gold the value could theoretically also be zero.
Or if an asteroid struck the earth and was 100% gold and suddenly gold was the most abundant element on earth, your gold holdings would become quite low in value.

[Zhariak]

I'm not bothering investing in bitcoins, although I do want to buy some litecoins...

I'm not really serious about the investment, nor do I consider it an actual real "investment".

I just want to snag 1-3 bitcoins, then use an exchange and swap em over to litecoins, just let them sit. Don't plan on doing anything with them for a while.

Either way, I think bitcoins will be here for good, not sure what the value will be long term. Right now it's a gamble with litecoins IMO, however I'd say there's a 50/50 chance they'll stick around. If so, with a large number, exponential gains muthafuckas!!!! :D

[sabad66]

Originally posted by BigMass


why would $100 be a number where everyone rushed to buy? bitcoin has no intrinsic value. nobody wanted bitcoin a year ago when it crashed to $1... so the value is arbitrary based on demand. If nobody wants it or needs it then the value is zero.
BTC did not crash to $1 a yaer ago. It did crash to $75ish from $250 but eventually recovered and then went way above
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg730ztgSzm1g10zm2g25

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Yeah, but from a gambling standpoint, it has shown a potential to hit over $1000 so if it drops to 100$ it would seem like a good value to buy in.

I think if it ever did start to crash, as the price dropped you would have people trying to catch it by buying into BTC as the price got lower and lower, it might cushion the fall if/when there is a fall.

You keep bringing up this value of zero concept as if it is unique to bitcoin. If no one wants or needs gold the value could theoretically also be zero.
Or if an asteroid struck the earth and was 100% gold and suddenly gold was the most abundant element on earth, your gold holdings would become quite low in value.
comparing gold to bitcoin is like apples and boat anchors. Not even in the same discussion. Plus the only people that seem to bring up gold is those trying to defend bitcoin. My arguments for or against bitcoin have nothing to do with gold at all.


Originally posted by sabad66

BTC did not crash to $1 a yaer ago. It did crash to $75ish from $250 but eventually recovered and then went way above
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg730ztgSzm1g10zm2g25
I remember clearly when bitcoin crashed from about $25 to about 10 cents. I was watching it happen live. The only thing I might not remember is exactly when it happened. Not really important is it?