"Why I Make Terrible Decisions, or, poverty thoughts"

[LollerBrader]

[ This is simply a great read - But should be mandatory for those who believe that poor people are the architects of their own circumstances. The comments are a must-read companion to this post. ]




There's no way to structure this coherently. They are random observations that might help explain the mental processes. But often, I think that we look at the academic problems of poverty and have no idea of the why. We know the what and the how, and we can see systemic problems, but it's rare to have a poor person actually explain it on their own behalf. So this is me doing that, sort of.

Rest is a luxury for the rich. I get up at 6AM, go to school (I have a full courseload, but I only have to go to two in-person classes) then work, then I get the kids, then I pick up my husband, then I have half an hour to change and go to Job 2. I get home from that at around 1230AM, then I have the rest of my classes and work to tend to. I'm in bed by 3. This isn't every day, I have two days off a week from each of my obligations. I use that time to clean the house and soothe Mr. Martini and see the kids for longer than an hour and catch up on schoolwork. Those nights I'm in bed by midnight, but if I go to bed too early I won't be able to stay up the other nights because I'll fuck my pattern up, and I drive an hour home from Job 2 so I can't afford to be sleepy. I never get a day off from work unless I am fairly sick. It doesn't leave you much room to think about what you are doing, only to attend to the next thing and the next. Planning isn't in the mix.



Continued at: http://killermartinis.kinja.com/why-i-make-terrible-decisions-or-poverty-thoughts-1450123558

[RatherBePerfin]

I didn't find anything there worthy of sympathy, more the excuses I expected to find. Pop out kids before it is financially feasible and you've set yourself well behind right from the start.

[Type_S1]

I can't help but reply to this crap.

This individual is basically arguing that because she is poor she has a different mindset than anyone with money and this mindset will keep her poor for ever. What a load of bullshit. This would mean there was never a person who became financially successful when beginning from poverty. Load of bullshit.

Like I always say, people decide where the end up in life. You make decisions in life and must live with the consequences. By the sounds of it she decided to get knocked up at a young age and keep the kid...say goodbye to the chance of having a decent life if you are already poor. I could go on and on but this is just a load of complete sh!t. A person whining about the circumstances they put themselves in.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by RatherBePerfin
Pop out kids before it is financially feasible and you've set yourself well behind right from the start.

My thoughts exactly. Why do poor people always have so many damn kids. The first one may be a mistake, but the second or third? Take Britain for example, numerous low income house holds simply have more children because the welfare state hands out cash hand over fist.

[revelations]

I am a firm believer in some of the ideas of Napoleon Hill.

He essentially says that your thoughts are what basically control your destiny in life. It matters not necessarily what your background is.

If that self-talk doesent change from a negative attitude (eg defeating, angry) then you become a "drifter" through life - getting from life whatever if gives you - instead of the opposite - and demand from life what you want to make of yourself. Firm, reasonable goals and the belief that you can accomplish incredible things, are some of the keys to success.

Success is not defined in wealth necessarily (but can be), but rather in happiness and content.

I'm sure someone can explain this better, I've had too many Jack Daniels.....

[Arash Boodagh]

Now its time for everyone else to join this lineup for food...
http://livewisely.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/breadline2.jpg

If you've never lived this kind of life style, you cant say change your mentality and get out of the gutter... how about welcome to the rat race, your chances of getting out of this cycle is poor.

More in-depth information about poverty in America.
Video
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/334330.html

[Supa Dexta]

What are you saying? Black people are a drain on society? God you're racist

[frizzlefry]

Rest is a luxury for the rich

Fuck that's funny. Its like those union commercials "Your working people". Somehow people who are poor and work hard think they are getting ripped off and that rich people don't work. Its not about working hard, it's about working smart. Most rich people work both.

[Arash Boodagh]

If most rich people work I hardly see how they're rich.

Government puts the squeeze on everyone and where does the money go? empire building.

@Supa Dexta
From what Ive read white Americans had one working parent and the other staying at home raising children... living a decent life. But now the NWO has shipped the jobs overseas... no tariff protection, no good jobs, and no farm land ownerships passed down as it was swindled in the great depression.
That is the drain on the economy.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
If most rich people work I hardly see how they're rich.
Government puts squeeze on everyone and where does the money go? empire building.

Oh how the jealous man sees the sports car of the earned man. And how he attempts to cover his simple wagon in plastic in order to replicate the vehicle of the wealthy man. But he fails, because true wealth comes from within and he does not possess this. So he sits, bitter. Always coveting the success he could not obtain for himself.

Been here before man. Getting old.

How's the build going? The old 300zx look like a Ferrari yet?

[Arash Boodagh]

Its getting there but not to replicate a status symbol... although cant help if women think that :D... but its a pursuit for artistic excellence.

The point you didnt get is that there is no opportunity for a man to earn a decent living in some places because of government schemes.
With the something like $800 billion (disclosed) spent a year on defense, these latest food stamp cuts will make the NWO even more gain in terms of more people resorting to crime to eat, thus further populating slave wage work in prisons (with high chances of rape)... and another would be a replenishing of soldiers for the worlds army as the poorest men and women (both sexes risking rape) resort to this in hopes of escaping poverty.

[googe]

I think people who believe that everything is one's own fault are as bad or worse than people who don't take responsibility. Both are pretty ignorant oversimplifications.

[Mista Bob]

The answer here lies somewhere in the middle.
Is it completely out of their control to change? Absolutely not.
Is it extremely hard to get out of poverty? Most definitely.

Especially when these people are often suffering from one or more mental illnesses that are only going to make things much harder.
I imagine if there were better services available for people with mental illnesses poverty would become less of an issue (even more so in the states vs here).
If you have done any research at all into the many mental illnesses that exist you can see how they can have a debilitating effect on ones life.

It is much easier to let their problems swallow them up and become lost within them than it is to make changes to their life.
And things only get harder and harder the longer they continue to live like this, both mentally and financially.

But in the end, there is only excuses. The very same excuses that only serve to keep yourself down.
Only *one* person can change the direction of their own life. And you have to want it to do it. It won't be easy and there will be many sacrifices along the way.... but it can be done.

[ZenOps]

Obamacare will break the middle class, 50/50 chance.

The $4,000 or so in forced insurance (like Canada through taxation) is going to hit each person in the US like a brick wall. In Canada we are used to paying for food, we are used to paying for taxation on food, and we are used to paying for national medicare.

Obama is trying to bring up the baseline, the minimum wagers with free food and forced medicare - but risks killing the middle class in the process.

http://www.examiner.com/article/obamacare-automatically-enrolling-people-snap-there-is-no-opt-out

If you make under a certain amount, you will automatically be enrolled in the food stamp program whether you like it or not. Forced underclass.

[Seth1968]

- Living in a motel and gets knocked up. Check

- Still practically lives in the gutter and has more kids. Check.

- She claims her teeth are so bad that she is afraid to give oral sex. Check, but WTF?

Just with those three, I'm thinking crack whore.

The only sympathy I have is for those kids.

The real scary part though, is she's probably leaving out the even nastier shit she has done or does.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by KRyn


My thoughts exactly. Why do poor people always have so many damn kids. The first one may be a mistake, but the second or third? Take Britain for example, numerous low income house holds simply have more children because the welfare state hands out cash hand over fist.

Easy. Husband and wife are bored from not finding a job.

Philippines has that issue and hands out free condoms or vasectomies in slums.

Our national infrastructure can't handle all them babies.

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by revelations
I am a firm believer in some of the ideas of Napoleon Hill.

He essentially says that your thoughts are what basically control your destiny in life.

This is a great sentiment for those who live in a sea of opportunity and are only limited by their own abilities and inhibitions.

For many, however, real limits exist outside of them. This also applies in third world countries, and the US.


It is a conceit for people to equate success with personal talent, while ruling out advantages conferred by class they were born into, the people they know, the influences around them, and the opportunities available to them.

I've been incredibly fortunate in the people I've known (And still am) that have enriched me, and the many doors that have been opened to me.

I know I've always had a feeling that doors could open for me, although often it does take a little work.

But at least I know those doors can open if I want them to bad enough. And should they not, there's always another two similar doors available to me.

I've seen those for whom the doors will not budge, no matter what they do.

That must be a painful experience, and an unpleasant way to live.

[SmAcKpOo]

Have you read some of the other things she writes on that site. TOTAL CRACKPOT...

[sr20s14zenki]

I know a girl, and lets just say, her surroundings were less than ideal. She came from a broken home, as did her two sisters and her brother. Her mother sent her to live with her father when she was six. Her father would routinely go on binges and leave her at home alone, at age six. Dont ask he how she survived, i have no idea. Eventually she re joined her useless mother, and step dad. They did nothing to push the kids or make them thrive, and sometimes, the stepdad would take the money for school supplies, and go on a bender.

Fast forward to now. She is a professional nurse, and just completing her masters in that field (i believe). Her Two sisters are also registered nurses, and VERY competent in their field. Their brother just completed his engineering degree.

The unfortunate fact, is that some people lack the drive, or determination to make things happen, and that is where I believe a lot of this crap comes from. I dont believe in bad luck.

Another story. Wife's dad got laid off. He sat on unemployment, barely looking for work. When the time came, he was kinda in shit, because he hadnt found a job yet. His ankles arent the greatest, and his other long term job before being laid off, was an electronics trouble shooter. Now, what pissed me off about this situation, is this. He was saying its hard to find a job that isnt hard on his ankles. I suggested for him to do a forklift course, and get his ticket, then he could make a pretty decent living, operating forklift in a warehouse or something, WHILE he looks for another job. Well, long story short, he would rather sit and sulk about his unemployment, rather than get out there and do something about it.

I got where i am, because of pride, determination, and maybe a bit of natural ability. I can safetly say that if shit came to shit, and i was uneployed tomorrow, i would not rest until i found something else...period.

I am a firm believer that it IS in you to make it happen. With enough drive, you can do it.

One thing i can say about the writer of this article, is that she has determination. She is bettering herself with school, i just hope its in a field that has a really great employment success rate. Im sick to death of hearing people say "ohhh woe is me i cant find a job, wahh" and usually the people saying that, are the most uselss people i've ever seen. Get off your ass.......

[KRyn]

Originally posted by flipstah


Easy. Husband and wife are bored from not finding a job.

Philippines has that issue and hands out free condoms or vasectomies in slums.

Our national infrastructure can't handle all them babies.

It's good to know they are attempting to do something about a known problem. Educating the people and offering the means to prevent unwanted children is an intelligent move that likely saves the country billions in the long run.


Originally posted by sr20s14zenki


I got where i am, because of pride, determination, and maybe a bit of natural ability.



Don't forget good looks. ;)


Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
Have you read some of the other things she writes on that site. TOTAL CRACKPOT...


I think the word you were looking for was head.... crackhead.

[Seth1968]

Here is how I became okay with being pregnant: there was no way I could be more fucked than I already was.

:nut: :banghead:

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by flipstah


Our national infrastructure can't handle all them babies.

Who needs population control when there's Canada?


:rofl:

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by flipstah


Easy. Husband and wife are bored from not finding a job.

Philippines has that issue and hands out free condoms or vasectomies in slums.

Our national infrastructure can't handle all them babies.

Good for the Philippines, at least they're doing something about it. Sex/contraceptive education goes a long way towards reducing unwanted pregnancies as well.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who works two jobs because they had kids they couldn't afford. An article recently said that raising a kid in Canada costs ~$600,000 - that's something to think about beforehand.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
I know a girl, and lets just say, her surroundings were less than ideal. She came from a broken home, as did her two sisters and her brother. Her mother sent her to live with her father when she was six. Her father would routinely go on binges and leave her at home alone, at age six. Dont ask he how she survived, i have no idea. Eventually she re joined her useless mother, and step dad. They did nothing to push the kids or make them thrive, and sometimes, the stepdad would take the money for school supplies, and go on a bender.

Fast forward to now. She is a professional nurse, and just completing her masters in that field (i believe). Her Two sisters are also registered nurses, and VERY competent in their field. Their brother just completed his engineering degree.

My girlfriend grew up in a situation that was probably worse than this... and she is the kindest most caring person I've ever known with a great work ethic.

People be people. You can't change a person unless they want to change, or better put you can't force a person to act a certain way unless they want to. :dunno:

[jwslam]

Ties into this article I read this morning

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/13-things-mentally-strong-people-dont.html

Apparently all poor people are mentally weak... :thumbsdow

[themack89]

Originally posted by jwslam
Ties into this article I read this morning

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/13-things-mentally-strong-people-dont.html

Apparently all poor people are mentally weak... :thumbsdow

I like that link.

I don't know if your comment though is sarcastic or what. It does kind of make sense though.

A speaker at the UofC studied early childhood nutrition and performance in academics, wealth and income, race, etc. The best answer she came up with was around the age of 5 or so, when you first get into school, your future is largely decided in terms of your mental abilities.

Across 10-12 years of schooling, the gaps between students (i.e. if you achieved 80% average and your friend 60% average) NEVER closed. They fluctuated, but never closed. The kids who scored higher typically earned higher incomes as adults, blah blah blah, but specifically these gaps were established when they were children, and how nourished they were before they got into school.

Neat stuff.

PS There are a lot of shitty and naive attitudes in this thread. But some good ones to make up for it. The "taking things for granted" is running rampant here.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by jwslam
Ties into this article I read this morning

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/13-things-mentally-strong-people-dont.html

Apparently all poor people are mentally weak... :thumbsdow

I can't stand that site, and how it's "life hacks" are like some special secret. It's just common freakin sense.

Example: Their article entitled 8 Easy Ways To Pay Off Your Mortgage. Wanna know what every single way is? Pay more than your minimum required payment. They just give 8 examples of doing that.

EDIT: sorry 6 of 8 are that. two ways tell you to refinance/negotiate.


No shit. Thanks lifehack.

/sidetrack

[Sugarphreak]

...

[AndyL]

I don't think much of beyond could relate...

I grew up pretty close to dirt poor. Yes a lot of this got engrained - and a lot I fight. My wife similarly - plus she was a single mom in school on welfare. Her habits are even more engrained at times..

What the beyond demographic probably largely doesn't understand is living without a safety net (ie savings)... I doubt many here have gotten off work - raced to the car to catch the traffic on the ones - to see if you should leave yet. Because you've got a budget for gas and it has no room for sitting idle on deerfoot for an hour... Get stuck in that you might take 1-2 days off work because you won't be able to find another 10$ in the budget. Its all cash preservation at that point - you don't generally know when the next shoe will drop and what will go wrong next - so you spend 1.79 on a single roll of toilet paper - because you might need that extra 4$ to cover getting stuck in traffic. (And calgary transit is only an option realistically if you work downtown)

I spent most of my young adult life with a bag of rice and tin of plain quaker oats on my cupboard... I never touched either - they were my safety net... If nothing else I had some food I only needed to add water to make.

My wife has a hoarding habit to this day - you can see the fear in her eyes if the pantry gets to certain levels. I get a similar reaction when my gas tank hits a quarter...

I don't think much if any of beyond would be able to wrap their heads around it.. Even doing better now there are things j just can't do - some of you might know the trouble I had last year wrapping my head around a new truck. I can see the numbers plain as day and know I should have one - but it was another monthly expense... Fuck the tax and practicality parts - it was another payment. Preserve the cash - a beater made more sense to me...

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


My girlfriend grew up in a situation that was probably worse than this... and she is the kindest most caring person I've ever known with a great work ethic.

People be people. You can't change a person unless they want to change, or better put you can't force a person to act a certain way unless they want to. :dunno:


Bingo, as i move through life, i realize it more and more every day. Nobody changes....who you are is who you are, deep down inside. Sometimes people manage to mask it, or go against their own grain, but deep down inside, you are what you are born as. That being said, i guess in certain cases, people can change, but it is usually because of either hitting rock bottom, or having some sort of traumatic event happen in their lives that forces the change.

And as somebody else said, 9 times out of ten, you can do everything in your power for somebody like the mentioned people, and they will still find a way to fuck it up. In my opinion, all you are doing is enabling them by making it easier. Its too bad, but that's unfortunately the way it is.

[clem24]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who works two jobs because they had kids they couldn't afford. An article recently said that raising a kid in Canada costs ~$600,000 - that's something to think about beforehand.

Fuck, so what you're saying is, I probably could've had a Veyron... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Originally posted by AndyL
My wife has a hoarding habit to this day - you can see the fear in her eyes if the pantry gets to certain levels. I get a similar reaction when my gas tank hits a quarter...

:werd: I gotta feather the C63 when that happens and the fuel light comes on! :D

[suntan]

Originally posted by AndyL
I don't think much of beyond could relate...

I grew up pretty close to dirt poor. Yes a lot of this got engrained - and a lot I fight. My wife similarly - plus she was a single mom in school on welfare. Her habits are even more engrained at times..

What the beyond demographic probably largely doesn't understand is living without a safety net (ie savings)... I doubt many here have gotten off work - raced to the car to catch the traffic on the ones - to see if you should leave yet. Because you've got a budget for gas and it has no room for sitting idle on deerfoot for an hour... Get stuck in that you might take 1-2 days off work because you won't be able to find another 10$ in the budget. Its all cash preservation at that point - you don't generally know when the next shoe will drop and what will go wrong next - so you spend 1.79 on a single roll of toilet paper - because you might need that extra 4$ to cover getting stuck in traffic. (And calgary transit is only an option realistically if you work downtown)

I spent most of my young adult life with a bag of rice and tin of plain quaker oats on my cupboard... I never touched either - they were my safety net... If nothing else I had some food I only needed to add water to make.

My wife has a hoarding habit to this day - you can see the fear in her eyes if the pantry gets to certain levels. I get a similar reaction when my gas tank hits a quarter...

I don't think much if any of beyond would be able to wrap their heads around it.. Even doing better now there are things j just can't do - some of you might know the trouble I had last year wrapping my head around a new truck. I can see the numbers plain as day and know I should have one - but it was another monthly expense... Fuck the tax and practicality parts - it was another payment. Preserve the cash - a beater made more sense to me... I know how you feel. Lived on $600/month when I was in school. Every penny mattered. I too had that emergency bag of rice and bag of flour. Yikes.

[rx7boi]

.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


Who needs population control when there's Canada?


:rofl:

Lol HEY! Unless you're a contract worker, it's actually hard to get into Canada as a landed immigrant.

My parents went through a lot of hoops and sold everything they made; businesses, assets, everything... To get where we are and I'm forever grateful.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by cjblair


I can't stand that site, and how it's "life hacks" are like some special secret. It's just common freakin sense.

Example: Their article entitled 8 Easy Ways To Pay Off Your Mortgage. Wanna know what every single way is? Pay more than your minimum required payment. They just give 8 examples of doing that.

EDIT: sorry 6 of 8 are that. two ways tell you to refinance/negotiate.


No shit. Thanks lifehack.

/sidetrack

Yes, it's a sidetrack, but a relevant one.

I wonder if it can top the head palms of John Tesh's "Intelligence for your life".

[phil98z24]

Since this seems to be a particularly hot topic, I think many of you, including the OP (especially OP), should have a read of Theodore Dalrymple's "Life At The Bottom: The Worldview That Makes The Underclass". I'm far from a conservative, but many things he says at it relates to poverty and the "underclass", are very interesting. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's a good perspective on the issue of decision making and poetry, social status, etc.

[CokerRat]

Originally posted by jwslam
Ties into this article I read this morning

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/13-things-mentally-strong-people-dont.html

Apparently all poor people are mentally weak... :thumbsdow
Poor people are not mentally weak but it may be fair to say that mentally weak people are inevitably poor.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by CokerRat

Poor people are not mentally weak but it may be fair to say that mentally weak people are inevitably poor.

Plenty of "mentally weak" people out there with well playing jobs. I see them every day, we all likely work with tons of them.

That whole lifehack article was complete shit however, and only furthers the stigmatization of mental illness. The attached stigma only makes it harder for those people to seek the help they need.
It should read "mentally healthy people. . . ." as almost every single category in it just describes aspects of mental illnesses out there, especially so for depression.
But then an informative article wouldn't be very good for drawing in hits. :rolleyes:

[gatorade]

Originally posted by Mista Bob
The answer here lies somewhere in the middle.
Is it completely out of their control to change? Absolutely not.
Is it extremely hard to get out of poverty? Most definitely.


Agency and structure. Doesn't look like a lot of people here have done any research on the subject, and are basing their comments on ideology and anecdotal evidence. Pierre Bourdieu presents the most contemporary theoretical outlook on poverty with his ideas of cultural and social capital. Pretty much the idea is that your cultural capital; the values and norms you grow up with, and your social capital; the social resources you grow up with shape your subjectivity.

http://econ.tau.ac.il/papers/publicf/Zeltzer1.pdf

[RY213]

So much assuming and judging in this thread. Its funny how the poor looks at the rich and thinks they dont have to work hard and just collect a cheque, and the rich looks at the poor and assumes they are lazy and dont want to work. Most of the "rich" people I have come across are some of the hardest workers ive known. They have gotten to their position from working hard and smart and from being passionate about what they do. I have also come across people that make below the average income that have a great work ethic, its just their lifes circumstances have put them in a hole that is difficult to get out of. Its not fair to judge someone because they had a child at an early age, sometimes this shit happens. I am honestly grateful that it never happened to me, my life could have turned out a lot differently. Some of you assume that the person taking advantage of WCB or EI is the posterchild for the working poor when in reality they are the minority.

As a sidenote, I can identify with what AndyL said. I remember a time when I had $20 to last me until next payday 5 days away and I had to consider feeding myself and having enough gas to go to work. That made me appreciate the little things, and motivates me still today...

[01RedDX]

.

[revelations]

Originally posted by LollerBrader


This is a great sentiment for those who live in a sea of opportunity and are only limited by their own abilities and inhibitions.

For many, however, real limits exist outside of them. This also applies in third world countries, and the US.


I wasnt very good at explaining Hill's ideas so youve grossly simplified the concept.

His concepts were universal to race, income, location etc. They were born out of the 1930s depression-era when families lost everything and opportunities were (seemingly) gone. It didnt matter if you lived in slums or not, but people were able to affect positive change in their life, long term, by adopting some of these principles. Setbacks, while unavoidable, were seen as temporary pains of a long-term pattern of success.

[clem24]

Here's what's ironic: she's finally found out how people can become successful, and her next article will be to point out all the fallacies of the first.

[98brg2d]

The worst things I had to do were not that bad compared to what other people here have had to do but still were done in desperation and seemed like poor choices to others:

Quitting a high paying (relative to other available work) job because they took too long to issue my first check (actually issued it to the wrong location) and I needed something that would pay me cash that day or the next (credit card was maxed, zero cash, not even pennies, and no more goodwill with friends). Luckily they ended up cutting me a check after I told them I quit and they let me start back again.

Buying food based on the cheapest calories possible. This ends up being stuff like instant mashed potatoes, stove stop stuffing, bread, potato chips etc. This really screws up your body long term and it is very hard to get back to "normal".

All the choices that you have to make out of desperation can really break you mentally and physically and make you much more prone to mental illness which starts a nasty cycle that is hard to break.

[zhulander]

Originally posted by LollerBrader
[ This is simply a great read - But should be mandatory for those who believe that poor people are the architects of their own circumstances. The comments are a must-read companion to this post. ]




Continued at: http://killermartinis.kinja.com/why-i-make-terrible-decisions-or-poverty-thoughts-1450123558

I believe truly poor people aren't the architects of their own circumstances but this girl is poor because of her terrible decisions. Go read her gofundme page, she's been more privileged than most beyonders.
http://www.gofundme.com/59yrak


I was raised middle class, by a factory worker and a teacher. They are my grandparents, and they are Mom and Dad




During the course of therapy, they tested my IQ. You have to understand that it isn't actually terribly impressive. It is higher than average, to be sure. But my mother grew up quite poor in Detroit and she is very impressed by these things and so she decided that I was a genius. And she nurtured it. She is a teacher. I was given music lessons and she learned languages with me. I have no aptitude for dance or art, but we tried those too. I was in competitions when I was five, and they lasted until college. And so that is how I know how to talk to people who are in the upper middle class. Because I got a partial scholarship to Cranbrook but we couldn't afford the other half. But my parents knew damn well what Cranbrook was and they were determined that I would have a chance at it. They gave up much to send me to private schools. Not expensive ones, I went to a small religious elementary.



When my parents came to be there for the birth and they saw what we were dealing with they moved us to Utah and gave us a trailer to live in. And then when we had our second and final daughter they helped us find a house to live in and now we have some space for once.



That is the sort of person I am. I chased dreams that I couldn't afford for longer than was strictly necessary, and only gave that up when children made life suddenly more stable.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 98brg2d
(credit card was maxed

Unless if something completely outside of your control (sickness, family, layoff, etc) took you out of commission, this says it all. That doesn't mean you were poor, that means you made poor decisions. :dunno:

Not to judge, but your example is a poor one.

[98brg2d]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Unless if something completely outside of your control (sickness, family, layoff, etc) took you out of commission, this says it all. That doesn't mean you were poor, that means you made poor decisions. :dunno:

Not to judge, but your example is a poor one.

I think you may have missed the part where I said my decisions seemed like poor choices to others, I already admitted that lol! The point was that to me, they seemed like the best choice available.

Besides, credit card debt doesn't necessarily mean you made "the bad choice". When you are on the edge, the best choice still may not end up putting you in a "good" position, simply that you minimized the problems as best as possible.

Here is more info so that you can judge - I finished school and moved out with about $500. I scraped by on that for about three months until I started a full time job but it took them five weeks to get me my first check (they sent it to the wrong place). By then I had used my credit card to buy food, work boots and pay to drive to work (worked night shift with no transit nearby) because I didn't make enough to have any savings. It isn't like I had a huge line of credit either and bought luxuries, my card was maxed at $1000. My first pay check paid off the cc and left me a few hundred which was enough for rent and food until the next check.

When you are right on the edge it doesn't take much to push you over. Starting from zero is almost impossible to do. I was lucky that I paid so little in rent (I eventually moved in with friends who didn't ask for rent until I got paid because they knew I had already outstayed my welcome with my brother and another friend) but you still need to make a minimum amount of money in order to live and if it doesn't come in consistently it is really hard to move away from the poverty line. Nowadays kids don't leave home until they have a down payment, well that wasn't an option for me even if I had wanted it.

I had a lot of friends that finished school at the same time as me and ended up in similar positions. I actually pulled out of it a bit quicker that most since I got a job with a liveable wage much sooner than they did. I had friends that were evicted, lived in the shittiest places you can imagine, rented closets etc.

[Type_S1]

People in Canada complaining about this are just stupid, fk me this is disappointing. I can understand in the US its a bit different, but there is always a way out.

I maxed out student loans for 4 years resulting in over 30k in debt and worked 30-40 hours a week for 4 years to put myself through university. 3-4 nights a week I had to go off 2 hours sleep because I had to work a late night shift with early morning classes. I felt like shit more days than I can remember and at times I remember thinking I should take time off school because it would be easier but I didn't. I manned the fk up because I knew I wanted to have a better life and not worry about how I would fill up my gas tank or how I would afford my next meal.

Guess what happened for working my ass off and making a ton of sacrifices? I graduated with a great job and now do not have to worry about money at all.

The problem is that most people will not make sacrifices and fight for what they want in life. People just say meaningless things so people think they are working hard. They make excuses, blame other people, blame society, blame their family situation, blame anything possible to avoid taking responsibility for their future. Perfect example is all the fat people's New Years resolution to get in shape. They would love to be in shape but it takes hard work so they dont want to put the effort in, its easier to be fat. Poor people are the same way, they all say they want to make the big bucks but won't put in the effort and make sacrifices to do so.

Note: My comments are directed at people living in 1st world countries. I have had the oppurtunity to see how fked up 3rd world countries are and the people in these societies have so many problems it is saddening.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
She has already made over $50,000:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/370324-linda-tirado-aka-killer-martinis-gets-over-50000-after-poverty-thoughts-essay/

This is what's wrong with the world. People who work for their money donating it to help some who didn't want to change their way. If you want to change enough you can.

[bjstare]

^No kidding.

Plus, something I don't understand: somehow she's got the money for a laptop/internet (or time to spend sitting in a coffee shop using their internet) and the time to write that long post... and then long winded responses to a bunch of her critics in the comments.

I thought she had no money, and no time for anything but work/kids/sleep?

[googe]

I would just like to say I make quite a bit, relatively speaking, and it has fuck all to do with hard work. I meet people who work way harder than me all the time and I make multiples of what they do. In a just world that rewards hard work, I'd be broke and they would be well off. Simply put, I got lucky that the things I gave a shit about happened to be in high demand in the job market.

I bet some people legitimately worked hard to get into a top income bracket, but I bet most know they're full of shit. It just feels better when you tell yourself that you got where you are because of your own hard work.

My aunt has worked at Walmart stocking shelves on night shift for 20 years. That's hard work. I play on my computer.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by cjblair
^No kidding.

Plus, something I don't understand: somehow she's got the money for a laptop/internet (or time to spend sitting in a coffee shop using their internet) and the time to write that long post... and then long winded responses to a bunch of her critics in the comments.

I thought she had no money, and no time for anything but work/kids/sleep?

This is just a scam to make money, shameless, and no different than the beggars that tell you they just need enough to get the next bus out of town. Panhandling 2013 style.

[Seth1968]

^This.

There's all sorts of evidence on the net proving she is a liar and a fraud.

A damn smart one though.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 98brg2d

When you are on the edge, the best choice still may not end up putting you in a "good" position, simply that you minimized the problems as best as possible.

There are so many ways around the credit card debt it is absurd, not to mention not getting a part-time job to cover the bills (in a province where EVERYWHERE IS HIRING even during the "recession") for the 3 months you weren't working. Food banks etc.

I'm not trying to get on your shit dude, but I have been in the EXACT same position as you. It's no excuse. But the 3 months not working really takes the case. That is straight up bullshit. I can see not working for a month if you were getting a job in your related field, but THREE MONTHS?


Originally posted by googe

My aunt has worked at Walmart stocking shelves on night shift for 20 years. That's hard work. I play on my computer.

That's what I always tell my girlfriend; while I may bitch about my job, I earn pretty damn good coin for only working 7.67 hours per day (usually inside, and not manual labour) with 5 weeks of paid vacation. Life's rough I tell ya!

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Type_S1
Poor people are the same way, they all say they want to make the big bucks but won't put in the effort and make sacrifices to do so.
I agree with everything you said except this part.
Lazy poor people yes, but you can have a strong work ethic and make sacrifices but yet still be poor. That's life unfortunately.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by clem24


Fuck, so what you're saying is, I probably could've had a Veyron... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:



Well, I hear the per-unit cost drops the more children you have due to recycled resources, so you'd probably have to have settled for a Pagani. ;)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[clem24]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


This is just a scam to make money, shameless, and no different than the beggars that tell you they just need enough to get the next bus out of town. Panhandling 2013 style.

She just has to call herself a writer of fiction and her job would be 100% legit.

[Unknown303]

Makes me want to start a donation page to fund a vacation for poor ol me. :rofl:

[98brg2d]

(in a province where EVERYWHERE IS HIRING even during the "recession")

This did not occur even in the last ten years...very different economy back then. I guess you are too young to have been through multiple boom and bust cycles.


There are so many ways around the credit card debt it is absurd

That is kind of the point of this thread now isn't it...the poor choices that people make that hurt their chances of improving their lives, and the excuses they make regarding those choices.

I think you are missing the point that nobody is making excuses in this thread, simply relaying what they have done and why they thought it was reasonable at the time.

You, as someone who clearly was brought up with more information about how to make good choices, obviously do not sympathize and that is fine. I don't think anybody in this thread is asking for solutions, simply discussing their experiences, maybe it gives you insight into a world you do not empathize with, if not that is fine but understand to take people's words for what they are worth - possibly interesting (or not) anecdotes.

Edit: this is how this discussion is starting to go:

Me: I made a bad choice
You: You idiot, you made a bad choice
Me: I know, I admit that
You: But you made a bad choice you idiot
Me: As I said, I know
...to be continued where non-arguments live on

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by zhulander


I believe truly poor people aren't the architects of their own circumstances but this girl is poor because of her terrible decisions. Go read her gofundme page, she's been more privileged than most beyonders.

Agreed. A lot has come out since posting this - She was well born, well bred, and not bad looking too.

Not what I'd call truly poor. She ended up there, but certainly wasn't born to it.

And, as events have unfolded, not doomed to stay there either.

While I have less sympathy for her circumstances, I think there is something still instructive here in terms of understanding the life of someone living at the edge of poverty: Lack of access, lack of options. Although Ms. Tirado has written eloquently on this, I'm a bit skeptical to what degree these are limiting factors for her.

She may be at the bottom end of the middle class, and feel the pain of disparity between herself and her peers... but at the end of the day, she's still middle class.

[Unknown303]

And that being on the edge of poverty you can just start an online donation page and start making 60k+ instantly!

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 98brg2d


I think you are missing the point that nobody is making excuses in this thread, simply relaying what they have done and why they thought it was reasonable at the time.


All the choices that you have to make out of desperation can really break you mentally and physically and make you much more prone to mental illness which starts a nasty cycle that is hard to break.

This is an excuse that isn't really, it's just plain being not very smart. There is a difference between a certain style of poverty that is forced onto someone (because of circumstances outside their control, such as family, location, birthdate, etc) and wanton lack of self control and (not to insult the guy who posted it, as I do applaud his confidence to post such information) but pure stupidity at the situation he got himself into. And then makes it sound as if it was by forces outside his control when he was absolutely the creator of his own destiny.

I am not misinterpreting or understanding anything. I believe in valid excuses, he doesn't have one and therefore, his "anecdote" is not a good way to highlight how poverty actually works.

[cancer man]

My cousin is the best at the age of 42 he finally realized you have to work..
The elders passed and no more pension checks so nothing to mooch from.

[98brg2d]

I believe in valid excuses, he doesn't have one and therefore, his "anecdote" is not a good way to highlight how poverty actually works.

I disagree with this statement. I agree with your previous statement that there are different ways to enter poverty (bad choices versus situations thrust upon you) but if you end up in poverty you end up in poverty, there is not much grey area anymore regardless of how you got there.

Situation A: made a bad decision, ends up living below the poverty line.

Situation B: laid off, ends up living below the poverty line.

So is the person in Situation A not actually poor? Is this situation not common (hint, it is). The only reason I can see for your stance is you probably don't tolerate people who, in your opinion, did not have to enter poverty yet still did. That is fine to have that opinion but understand that the best ways to highlight "how poverty actually works" is to evaluate and understand the most common ways for people to enter poverty. If you choose to not provide assistance to people who entered poverty for reasons you see as preventable that is fine and I agree with you there except to say that those poor choices were probably a result of poor education not wanton lack of self control.

I would not have considered putting groceries on a credit card as a lack of self control, I simply didn't know what my options were at the time. I didn't consider myself to be in "trouble" until it was too late because I had never had to recognize the signs. My parents shielded me from financial troubles and I never knew what decisions they were making and why. Had I understood the choices my parents made, I could have made the same ones and had no problems at all. I would classify this as a troubling case of having no "street smarts" only "book smarts". It happens, everybody knows somebody that you can say "he'd never survive one minutes in ..." well that was me but I didn't know it.

With regards to the comment about mental illness, I was more so meaning that issues that continue even after poverty has ended. The worst part of everything that happened wasn't when I was struggling financially. That is what I meant by the physical and mental effects being hard to come back from.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 98brg2d


but if you end up in poverty you end up in poverty

No. Just plain no. It doesn't matter what your life circumstances are, if you earn (random number) $100k per year, there is no way you can be "impoverished". Simple as that.

[98brg2d]

You either are now simply trolling or don't understand what would be considered poverty and yes you are correct that it is much much below $100K per year.

I think you should read the documents below:

http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/CNS/Documents/Social-research-policy-and-resources/What%20is%20Poverty.pdf

http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/CNS/Documents/poverty.pdf (this is from 2003 but gives you some comparative numbers).

Test Time:

In 2003 the low income line for a single person was $19000. In 2003 I made a whopping $10000. Was I above or below the low income line?

Ding ding ding ding, you are correct if you answered "Below the line"!

Generally speaking, since Canada doesn't publish a "poverty line" the LICO is considered by most people to represent Canada's poverty line.