Infill cost questions

[max_boost]

So I have a friend ......

Who is looking at building an infill project on 50X120 lot so either a duplex or two detached homes.

He's telling me with his hookups he can get it done for $200/sq.ft MAX.

Is this feasible? Average trims I suppose, 9-10ft ceilings, hardwood floors, granite counter tops etc.

Lot: $600K
Tear down: ????
Build: 2000sq.ft X $200 X2. = $800K
Landscape: ????
Garage: ????

Where's the profit here? haha

[JordanLotoski]

Where is the lot?

[max_boost]

Inner-city.

The number in question here is $200/sq.ft MAX.

I know JL you are running around $400 and the trades people like Dave and frozenrice are saying $225-$250 as the min.

[ExtraSlow]

Probably possible, but for that rock-bottom price, you will be building a pretty low budget place, and it may not fit in well with the other homes in the area.

I recommended you have someone experienced help you (or your friend) in determining a realistic budget so your home can fit in better, and command a reasonable sale value on the other side.

[kkkat]

Sorry to highjack here. I am also looking to do an ~2500sf infill as well. Inner city 43'x120' lot. $400/sf seems unbelievable. Hope that's for really high end construction.

Is there a reason why people aren't building infills with front attached garages? I have yet to see one in the Capitol hill/Mt. pleasant/tuxedo areas.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by kkkat
Sorry to highjack here. I am also looking to do an ~2500sf infill as well. Inner city 43'x120' lot. $400/sf seems unbelievable. Hope that's for really high end construction.

Is there a reason why people aren't building infills with front attached garages? I have yet to see one in the Capitol hill/Mt. pleasant/tuxedo areas.

Well this is JL, everything he does is baller.

You can find a lot of front garages in the Winston Heights area. No rear alleys.

[englishbob]

Asbestos removal pre demolition if applicable can run to $30k per inner city average size house (worst case pricing using 16 years of experience).

[RawB8figure]

$400sqft, thats getting close to turnkey price. If it does cost him 700k$ side, he will make very little after realtor fees.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by RawB8figure
$400sqft, thats getting close to turnkey price. If it does cost him 700k$ side, he will make very little after realtor fees.

Pffft....don't you know how beyonders do it? They just learn how to be the GC themselves and bingo...instant profit!!

Or they hire a builder to build it for them and then turn around and sell it for instant profit.

Either way, it's just so simple to build houses and make tons of money.

[kkkat]

Looking for infloor heating and just above average construction. As far as I know there is no asbestos in this house but I could be wrong, year 1947. Is $250/sf realistic?

so there is no by-law stopping people from building a house with front garage in areas with back lanes (I haven't found anything yet)?

We have a detached garage right now and we use it maybe 30days in a year. Just not practical for us.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by max_boost


He's telling me with his hookups he can get it done for $200/sq.ft MAX.


I've got the same hookups. $200/sq.ft, no problem. Just use cash corner :rofl:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by kkkat
Looking for infloor heating and just above average construction. As far as I know there is no asbestos in this house but I could be wrong, year 1947. Is $250/sf realistic?

so there is no by-law stopping people from building a house with front garage in areas with back lanes (I haven't found anything yet)?

We have a detached garage right now and we use it maybe 30days in a year. Just not practical for us.

I've seen a single attached front garage on my street in Crescent but if you are talking about those ones you see in the burbs, I have yet to see and yep, probably bylaw related.

[englishbob]

I'm only mentioning asbestos because many homeowners turned G.C's have near crapped themselves when they find out their costs have just increased dramatically and their budgets flown out of the window.
A survey can determine if asbestos is present for a cost of between $1200-$1800 but I'm more than willing to discuss it if you'd like because you can do it yourself.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by kkkat
$400/sf seems unbelievable. Hope that's for really high end construction.

About a $2.5+ million home.

[frozenrice]

Plans and design $4-5000. Development permit $2-3000, development permit survey $2000, building permit $2500. Asbestos as mentioned above depending on age of house and test results (if house is pre 1980's there will be asbestos of some sort), can run anywhere from $10-40,000. Demolition $15,000. Tree/stump removal if there are trees that can be removed (as allowed by city bylaw). Shoring the ground along the property line (so the dirt from the neighbour's house doesn't collapse into your excavated hole) will run about $300 lineal foot. If it's a really old neighbourhood, then you'll likely need to renew underground sewer and water services to the tune of around $20,000 +/-. ATCO might be around $3000 if the gas line needs to be redone/relocated. Electrical services if overhead will typically cost more for electrician to hook up for temp services. Some cases, you may also need to provide hoarding (in the sense of road/safety barriers). Security/safety fencing rentals will cost about $200/month (required for insurance/liability) - add a few extra bucks a month if you have any existing tress that the city requires protection on. Site toilet rentals, $100/month. Landscaping can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000. Detached garage $20-30,000.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by frozenrice
Plans and design $4-5000. Development permit $2-3000, development permit survey $2000, building permit $2500. Asbestos as mentioned above depending on age of house and test results (if house is pre 1980's there will be asbestos of some sort), can run anywhere from $10-40,000. Demolition $15,000. Tree/stump removal if there are trees that can be removed (as allowed by city bylaw). Shoring the ground along the property line (so the dirt from the neighbour's house doesn't collapse into your excavated hole) will run about $300 lineal foot. If it's a really old neighbourhood, then you'll likely need to renew underground sewer and water services to the tune of around $20,000 +/-. ATCO might be around $3000 if the gas line needs to be redone/relocated. Electrical services if overhead will typically cost more for electrician to hook up for temp services. Some cases, you may also need to provide hoarding (in the sense of road/safety barriers). Security/safety fencing rentals will cost about $200/month (required for insurance/liability) - add a few extra bucks a month if you have any existing tress that the city requires protection on. Site toilet rentals, $100/month. Landscaping can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000. Detached garage $20-30,000.

Sounds like you've done this before.

[Sorath]

Kinda on same topic.

Is there luxury or inner city builders that you guys trust over others? And why?

[msommers]

Yeah Ranger Homes. Family friends, husband and wife both engineers who are nit picky about everything, have a network of solid trades guys after letting go of a bunch who's quality of work just wasn't there. She designs and he project manages.

[msommers]

Originally posted by kkkat
Sorry to highjack here. I am also looking to do an ~2500sf infill as well. Inner city 43'x120' lot. $400/sf seems unbelievable. Hope that's for really high end construction.

Is there a reason why people aren't building infills with front attached garages? I have yet to see one in the Capitol hill/Mt. pleasant/tuxedo areas.

Alley space is probably a big reason. A guess would be that they don't want the cookie cutter design of the burbs. Ironically though, the infill duplex design is getting more boring from the outside and played out. At least the entire block doesn't look exactly the same like the burbs?

[frozenrice]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


Sounds like you've done this before.

Once or twice ;)

[sputnik]

Originally posted by max_boost
So I have a friend ......

Who is looking at building an infill project on 50X120 lot so either a duplex or two detached homes.

He's telling me with his hookups he can get it done for $200/sq.ft MAX.

Is this feasible? Average trims I suppose, 9-10ft ceilings, hardwood floors, granite counter tops etc.

Lot: $600K
Tear down: ????
Build: 2000sq.ft X $200 X2. = $800K
Landscape: ????
Garage: ????

Where's the profit here? haha

The profit on projects like this come in two ways...

- Not paying $600k for a 50ft lot
- Being your own general contractor

Otherwise you can expect to break even... if you are lucky.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by sputnik


Otherwise you can expect to break even... if you are lucky.

I think some people look at the advantages even if they break even.

- Custom built house to their taste
- Specific lot location in the city that they're able to purchase for the right price, etc...

IMO, if I'm just breaking even... I'd rather go turnkey. (call a realtor, tell him my budget, then go house shopping, lol)

[mr2mike]

Originally posted by sputnik


The profit on projects like this come in two ways...

- Not paying $600k for a 50ft lot
- Being your own general contractor

Otherwise you can expect to break even... if you are lucky.

Yup the $600K is the killer. Sounds like he bought a liveable place that's had some upgrades and maintenance done over the past few years.
He's made a mistake thinking he can tear this place down and do an infill. Should have looked for a $400K place if he wanted an infill in the first place.

[you&me]

Originally posted by mr2mike


Yup the $600K is the killer. Sounds like he bought a liveable place that's had some upgrades and maintenance done over the past few years.
He's made a mistake thinking he can tear this place down and do an infill. Should have looked for a $400K place if he wanted an infill in the first place.

For run-of-the-mill inner city dirt, $600k is up there. But there are some variables that could justify that price, like a view, corner, across from a park, graded to allow a walkout, etc

Do we know where the lot is?

[ercchry]

Originally posted by you&me


For run-of-the-mill inner city dirt, $600k is up there. But there are some variables that could justify that price, like a view, corner, across from a park, graded to allow a walkout, etc

Do we know where the lot is?

but a special lot should have a special house built on it to maximize value on resale... which you wouldnt get for $200/sqft even with "hook ups" unless those hook ups have to do with the back of a truck :rofl:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by ercchry


but a special lot should have a special house built on it to maximize value on resale... which you wouldnt get for $200/sqft even with "hook ups" unless those hook ups have to do with the back of a truck :rofl:

Dave said it quite nicely here too.


Originally posted by C_Dave45


I just meant the quality of house in that area. To put up an infill with nothing but vinyl siding and linoleum floors, is a waste of the land value and you will have poor resale value. Infills in that area are around $250/ft. Doesn't mean you CAN'T build for less. But you don't want to build the cheapest looking house on the block do you?

I think this puts into perspective the amount of work, time, $$$ involved.

Didn't post this up to discourage him, just wanted him to know what he might be getting himself into and not rely on the, my friends friend, so and so can do it for this this. That never works out well lol

[you&me]

Originally posted by ercchry


but a special lot should have a special house built on it to maximize value on resale... which you wouldnt get for $200/sqft even with "hook ups" unless those hook ups have to do with the back of a truck :rofl:

That's true, in which case we shouldn't be focussing on the cost of the lot (which some were questioning as 'too high'), but instead considering upping the finishing.

Though judging by what's built around here (Marda Loop), there's a lot of shit finishing (and design) going on some pretty nice pieces of property... Shame.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by you&me


That's true, in which case we shouldn't be focussing on the cost of the lot (which some were questioning as 'too high'), but instead considering upping the finishing.

Though judging by what's built around here (Marda Loop), there's a lot of shit finishing (and design) going on some pretty nice pieces of property... Shame.
I've worked in probably over a dozen infills in the Marda Loop area. The last duplex was on 32nd, just behind the station pub and EACH SIDE sold for $1.1 Mil!!!!!!:eek: with a view right into that shitty little lane.

http://goo.gl/maps/r5CCm

[kkkat]

Originally posted by msommers


Alley space is probably a big reason. A guess would be that they don't want the cookie cutter design of the burbs. Ironically though, the infill duplex design is getting more boring from the outside and played out. At least the entire block doesn't look exactly the same like the burbs?

I bet if it's really not allowed by law, it would have something to do the fire code.

We don't like the suburb design where the garage pretty much blocks the whole house. Also not a big fan of the duplexes that have been going up either. I am seeing maybe 4 to 5 styles around the area.
This is the style we really like.
http://www.greenhomegnome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/method-homes-modular-white-rock.jpg
Not sure how possible it is though. Still have to look into a lot of things.

[msommers]

Have seen a few of those pop up in Bridgeland lately. Great design!

[frozenrice]

Originally posted by kkkat


I bet if it's really not allowed by law, it would have something to do the fire code.

We don't like the suburb design where the garage pretty much blocks the whole house. Also not a big fan of the duplexes that have been going up either. I am seeing maybe 4 to 5 styles around the area.
This is the style we really like.
http://www.greenhomegnome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/method-homes-modular-white-rock.jpg
Not sure how possible it is though. Still have to look into a lot of things.

It probably has to do more with what you can get past development permit process. Part of that process involves not just the city but people from within the community (ie : community associations who in turn sometimes consult with architects). If you submit with a front drive garage, they may or may not approve of it based on wether or not they think it would fit within what they consider neighbourhoodhood standards. Some neighborhoods don't care and it could go uncontested. Some communities will tell you to pound sand. Bid you can get a front drive approved don't forget to add in the cost of redoing the front walk/curb to allow for a garage. Kicker to this is that the sidewalk is city property so you can't just hire cash corner Joe to do it. It has to be a city indemnified contractor that knows city standards and specs for this kind of work. This usually equates to bigger than usual cost just because they're city approved.

As far as lot prices go, if you're going to drop big bucks on a project like this, considering some lots in outlying area like Bearspaw or Heritage Point cost the same price. Pros is that it a good size lot. Downside is that they're way the hell out. It's all a matter of perspective and what you're willing to pay for the kind of lifestyle you want.

[haunt]

Bumping this thread up from the dead.

I'm looking in to building a detached infill. Does the cost range of $200-250/sqft include the site costs mentioned by frozenrice? (Asbestos, demolition, shoring, fencing, sewer/water/gas/electric tie ins, landscaping, etc.)
If I want to build a 2000-2300 sqft house with a builder, is 500k all-in (excluding land) realistic?




Plans and design $4-5000. Development permit $2-3000, development permit survey $2000, building permit $2500. Asbestos as mentioned above depending on age of house and test results (if house is pre 1980's there will be asbestos of some sort), can run anywhere from $10-40,000. Demolition $15,000. Tree/stump removal if there are trees that can be removed (as allowed by city bylaw). Shoring the ground along the property line (so the dirt from the neighbour's house doesn't collapse into your excavated hole) will run about $300 lineal foot. If it's a really old neighbourhood, then you'll likely need to renew underground sewer and water services to the tune of around $20,000 +/-. ATCO might be around $3000 if the gas line needs to be redone/relocated. Electrical services if overhead will typically cost more for electrician to hook up for temp services. Some cases, you may also need to provide hoarding (in the sense of road/safety barriers). Security/safety fencing rentals will cost about $200/month (required for insurance/liability) - add a few extra bucks a month if you have any existing tress that the city requires protection on. Site toilet rentals, $100/month. Landscaping can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000. Detached garage $20-30,000.

[you&me]

Bumping this thread up from the dead.

I'm looking in to building a detached infill. Does the cost range of $200-250/sqft include the site costs mentioned by frozenrice? (Asbestos, demolition, shoring, fencing, sewer/water/gas/electric tie ins, landscaping, etc.)
If I want to build a 2000-2300 sqft house with a builder, is 500k all-in (excluding land) realistic?

No.

$200, or even $250 would be a pretty basic spec. Lower grade hardwood and/or carpeting, basic granite, 9' instead of 10' ceilings, more basic appliances, minimal built-ins, etc...

The costs posted by frozenrice amount to about $65,000, on the low end, and that's assuming a bare lot, without any remediation or demo costs, so that would amount to about $30psf right there...

[killramos]

A guy I know did well on the remediation side by selling the house itself to a house mover.

I think he pocketed 10-20k while avoiding the asbestos remediation costs etc.

[killramos]

... Wrong thread

[The_Rural_Juror]

And basement about $125 per foot?

[89coupe]

Bumping this thread up from the dead.

I'm looking in to building a detached infill. Does the cost range of $200-250/sqft include the site costs mentioned by frozenrice? (Asbestos, demolition, shoring, fencing, sewer/water/gas/electric tie ins, landscaping, etc.)
If I want to build a 2000-2300 sqft house with a builder, is 500k all-in (excluding land) realistic?

I sent you a PM