Under Warranty but want to avoid any kind of "rebuild"

[r3ccOs]

My transmission is pretty much shot... car is relatively new and under warranty

Is being picked up sometime by citywide and delivered to the dealer.

What I want to prevent is... Sir, we will rebuild your tranmission for you

Now why I think this... is I was driving down the road, then the RPM's spike (auto) much like a worn clutch, the revs were going up but no power was being delivered.

I pulled into the only clear spot I could, which was a transit spot and called the roadside.

Being that it can take up to 24h's to get a tow, I had to move it to somewhere that I would be "ok" to leave it, and that took me 20 feet at wide open throttle to move anywhere, leaving a terrible amount of smoke and a nice long trail of red fluid everywhere.

Now, I had reported a tranny issue about 8 months ago, and was told "we cleared the codes and uploaded a new programme"

seemed to have worked alright, but never felt quite the same as when I first got it, but had assumed it was just due to different shift points.

well... this is obviously worse, and I don't want them to "rebuild" this transmission, and would rather have the manufacturer replace it.

From a Dealer perspective, there must be greater margins with rebuilding the transmission... but the cost has to be similar to the manufacturer if they go down this path (I think the book quotes 17 hours) vs swapping for a new transmission.

So how do I get the dealer to make this "right" but to my benefit and not theirs?

[EM1FTW]

Odds are they will replace it.
I've never heard of a dealer in recent years rebuilding an auto trans in house.

[benyl]

they will replace it with a rebuilt one

[boarderfatty]

what ind of car is it? Odds are they will not rebuild it, I don't know of any dealer (here in Edmonton anyways) who would ever rebuild a transmission, it is something you farm out to a transmission specialist. So if they farm it out, they will be losing that margin they would make on labor to the transmission shop. Depending on the car, its age etc. chances are you will get a factory rebuilt transmission, which is basically a old cleaned up bell housing and everything else inside it is new. It is veerry rare to see a transmission replaced with "brand new" unless the car is uber rare, or the transmission is a new model which they don't have current cores on.

[Rat Fink]

.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


I do it all the time. Every Ford dealer has a trans guy who does overhauls in house (unless they are short staffed). Unless there is catastrophic failure I usually end up doing an overhaul. With Fords, you have to complete a teardown inspection and fill out a "cost cap" form on the internal Ford website where you check off everything that is not up to spec and it'll give you a judgement call on whether you rebuild it or get a new one (that is also rebuilt, but likely from a sweatshop somewhere). Take your pick, either way it may not be "new". I've had transmissions where I've tried "cooking the books" to force a replace decision by saying I need a new case and a new planetary set, pump, etc and it still comes back saying to overhaul it....gets crazy sometimes!


What kind of vehicle is it? Its not like an auto trans is some kind of mysterious voodoo box that takes a rocket scientist to diagnose and overhaul. I've only got aeronautical engineering technology under my belt too....we got into some rockets but not that much. heh!

2011 Volvo V50 T5

[mr2mike]

Why is this the transmission that is shot?
Wouldn't you just throw in a new torque converter, fill with proper fluid and call it a day?
Not there to see how it's behaving but from what you describe, I'd guess this.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Yeah over at GM we rebuild and replace, it all comes down to cost comparison. If it's cheaper to rebuild GM will do that, if it's cheaper to put a SRTA in GM will do that.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


So how do I get the dealer to make this "right" but to my benefit and not theirs?

The only way you aren't getting a rebuilt, is if you offer up to pay for the entire transmission altogether, and all they do the labour under warranty. You could try and ask to pay the difference between a rebuilt, and a brand new one, but I'm sure there's some sort of complication with warranty paperwork to do it that way.

Honestly though, a rebuilt might be better than brand new.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


That's a pretty wild guess! :rofl:

r3ccOs,
Just looking up the trans in your Volvo, it looks to be an Aisin trans so it's a possibility you will get another replacement trans if it is anything major. Some of the older Fusions like my gf's 2011 Fusion sport run an Aisin trans and we actually aren't even allowed to take them apart further than valve body removal and air testing... It's an Aisin protocol for us. I see GM has your trans in some of their models but it looks like they can overhaul them.

At any rate, the fluid leak, wherever its leaking from, is what caused your issue based on your account of there being a red trail left behind. Low fluid causes reduced line pressure that will prevent the clutches from engaging properly. When in first gear, it'll be whatever Volvo calls the low/reverse clutch and the forward clutch (I'm used to Ford terminology) that is being applied. The problem is with you going WOT to move the vehicle, there was probably major clutch slippage since there wasn't enough fluid in the trans to have full apply pressure in those 2 circuits and you likely fucked your trans. My bet is on there being damage to the forward clutches for sure. This could work out in your favor though, especially if Volvo techs are trained to replace only. It could very well be new trans day for you!

Do you have a dipstick on your Volvo or is it a plug underneath the vehicle? You can tell if you have clutch material burnt by the very distinct putrid burnt smell that the fluid would have, and wiping the fluid on a clean white towel will show the fine clutch particles suspended in the fluid.

If they only fix the leak and fill it back up with fluid and call it a day, then I would heavily question their decision as you likely have a comprised transmission at that point. If they replace your transmission, make sure they flush the cooler and lines. If it is an external air-to-oil cooler design it should be replaced. Not doing this can cause a repeat failure of your new trans since any contaminated fluid in the cooler system returns to the new trans through the lubrication circuit (any metal particles will wipe out the lube circuit of your brand new trans!!!)

thanks...

they are just topping up the fluid and looking for the leak, even though I told them I saw the leak and the smell, and what I had to do, to allow to be safely towed.

They put me through the ringer asking all about my driving habits, if I got stuck, if I take it off road, etc..

[r3ccOs]

apparently the transmission oil cooler return line was damaged, and as such all the work to repair/rebuild is now my liability.

I didn't hit anything... but its up to me prove otherwise.

[mr2mike]

Where does the transmission oil cooler line run. Could it be an inherint design flaw that a parking block could crush it?


Originally posted by Rat Fink

That's a pretty wild guess! :rofl:


Ya, ya. I know. I guess I was meaning to say, don't jump to conclusions that it's the the entire transmission that's garbage.
I don't know the history nor have I seen the car's symptoms.

I was laying out the option of the glass is half full barring a full inspection of the drive train.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by r3ccOs
apparently the transmission oil cooler return line was damaged, and as such all the work to repair/rebuild is now my liability.

I didn't hit anything... but its up to me prove otherwise.

Must be well protected...

Might have to go higher then the dealer, will find out how much Volvo cares about its customers.

Assuming you did nothing to cause this I would suspect you have a good case for warranty claim.

[Rat Fink]

.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by m10-power


Must be well protected...

Might have to go higher then the dealer, will find out how much Volvo cares about its customers.

Assuming you did nothing to cause this I would suspect you have a good case for warranty claim.

I've sent an inquiry to Volvo Canada

Valentine has said there are no issues they can tell, after refilling the transmission, but have also broke my dipstick :)

being that I had to move the car somewhere safe, I'm thinking that I did damage my transmission, but hey... now I'm liable.

The service manager Terry, called me even before they received the car to ask if I drove anywhere "rough" and indicated there were a number of cases coming in with EXACTLY that issue, prior to receiving my car.

No recent service to the transmission, so I'm thinking here that the situation sits as: an inherent design failure that I should not be liable for, and have posted pictures and have tagged volvo canada to on Fb

[Rat Fink]

.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
That's a good call. The quicker you can escalate it and turn it into a "heat score", the quicker you'll be able to get resolution, especially with a non-cooperative dealership. It would be so easy for a dealer to claim a failed cooler line and help you out. I don't know why they have to play that BS with you.

I think the VAR just doesn't want to play in the discretionary space.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


The service manager Terry, called me even before they received the car to ask if I drove anywhere "rough" and indicated there were a number of cases coming in with EXACTLY that issue, prior to receiving my car.


So a number of owners are showing up with the same problem, and they still say you're at fault? :rofl:

Do they think you're rock-crawling with it or something?

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


So a number of owners are showing up with the same problem, and they still say you're at fault? :rofl:

Do they think you're rock-crawling with it or something?

that's just it... HE pre-diagnosed the situation, before they even received my car, or looked at it.

[r3ccOs]

I also posted this thread into an email to Volvo Canada... let them know the type of awareness that Beyond.ca can generate :)

[r3ccOs]

picked up the car and found it to work, but when I come down in speed to a stop, the RPM's now drop to below 500rpm, then pick back up to 800.

this is unfortunately inconstant, but much more apparent when the car was coldish.

Left a vm for their service dept to let them know, but maybe the new fluid has to work its way through?
:dunno:

Also, found a scratches on my rear bumper above my exhaust, with a scratched exhaust tip.

I'm thinking something happened when the car was towed.

[r3ccOs]

I called Volvo Canada - explained that I want a case opened and explained the sitaution, and want them to make this situation right.

I think I have a torque converter issue, as I am definately seeing issues at stops - where the rpm drops and flutters where it never did before.

I had to call roadside assitance to open a case with their "damage" dept, as now I have damage to my rear bumper and exhaust, and both neither Citywide nor the Dealer are willing to accept any liability.

When should I call insurance? and what can I do about the torque converter? I have an appt on Tuesday to bring it in, but being that I paid for the work yesterday, does that make me accountable for all damages incurred?

[Masked Bandit]

Wow, lots of quality fun here. A family member just about bought a Volvo recently but was concerned with long-term reliability. Looks like their concerns may have been valid.

[r3ccOs]

Recieved a call from Volvo Canada this AM... was told that this was presented to the Execuitive and they said they will not be able to do anything for me.

Not the damage to the bumper, nor the transmission which now makes a high pitch whine whenever I'm moving at a slower speed.

[drtoohotty1]

Call every news and media outlet that will listen and see if they will change volvos tune, how did they manage to damage your exhaust?

[m10-power]

how did the fluid get out of the transmission?

[heavyfuel]

Fuckin' dealerships... they always have all the angles covered. Pure scum of the Earth second only to our govt. Stories like this plus my first (of 2) stealership experience in 2007 are why I have vowed to never finance or purchase a brand new vehicle, ever.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

[r3ccOs]

sent this note to Volvo Canada's president

Hello Marc,

As both a long time Patron of Volvo Products, I would like to voice my displeasure in my recent experience with the process of which my Volvo V50 was handled by both Roadside Assistance and Volvo Canada.

My car is a 2011 Volvo V50 T5 that I purchased at Valentine Volvo, Calgary AB.
Prior to this issue, I had no major problems with the car, outside of a transmission software fault at 39000km, nor the Service from Valentine Volvo.

The car now has 61200 KMs and is still under warranty, however I feel that what had transpired has now both compromised my vehicle and also incurred superficial (paint) damage.

I submitted this summary and inquiry below to Volvo Cars of Canada Corp on Dec 4th:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I own a 2011 Volvo V50 T5 w/ 61473km

Last night, Dec 3rd/13, I was stranded in storm conditions in a neighborhood not too far from my primary address.

The vehicle was leaking red fluid (presumed transmission) and was revving without delivering any power to my wheels.

I was able to pull over to a bus stop, which was clear enough to park temporarily safely.

I engaged roadside assistance, who was excellent, and made arrangements for a tow. Unfortunately as Towing services were in high demand due to the snow storm, it took a long time until the sub, Citywide, was able to deliver the car to the Calgary based Dealership - Valentine.

As I was parked in a bus-stop, I had to move the vehicle to a location where it would be safe and accessible by the tow truck, and the Roadside assistance rep had asked that I do what I can with what I was able to, move the car. I did so, but this resulted in more fluid leaking and a fowl burning smell.

After that I left a VM for the dealer to let them know the car would be coming in.

I received a call from Terry Coulter this morning, Dec 4th, asking me a number of questions as to whether I had driven the car into any rough roads, which I had not. I explained that I was driving down a rather clean main road (McIvor Blvd SE Calgary) of which I lost power, though the engine was running.

He said he has seen a few cars come in with the same issue, and its likely a "Transmission Cooler oil return line".

He made no mention whether this was a warrant-able item or not.

We ended the call, until later in the afternoon I heard back that this was not warranty-able, and that the cost incurred to me for this replacement of the Transmission Cooler Oil Return Line, was $767

Now, to me... if this is a "common" issue as per the VAR and forums online, and a situation where line return line is accessible and easily damageable, i.e. not hidden by the vehicle subframe, then this is an inherant design flaw and "I" as the customer, should not be liable for the incurred damages, and the POTENIAL added wear that now can exist to the clutches inside my automatic transmission.

Please contact me back to let me know what can be done to rectify this situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On December 5th/13, I then called Volvo Canada and opened a case with your customer service rep, Omar to follow up on the situation.

As of then I received my car and had found that:
• The transmission was dropping the engine’s RPM to lower than normal when coming to a stop (600RPM) and was no longer smooth
• Damage to the left side of my bumper and exhaust tip

With this, I then called Roadside assistance to open up a case with their “Damage Department” and NOT TO ENGAGE MY INSURANCE. I also booked another appointment with Valentine Volvo to have another look at my car on Thursday Dec 12 (earliest appointment available).

Dec 10th – Received call from Omar, indicating that Volvo Canada has declined any accountability of this event and that any further escalation would have to be taken with yourself, Marc, the president.

Dec 12th – Car was checked over by Valentine Volvo – who indicated that the transmission was “ok” but needed a software reset.
• Though I agree that the transmission, and to date, is better than the first couple of days when I received the car, I still feel that the transmission is no longer 100%.

I also Received a call from Citywide Towing, who said that they are not liable for any damages incurred during my tow and that they doubt that any of their professionals could have damaged the vehicle.

To date, I’ve not received a call back from Volvo Roadside, as to what are the next steps to remediate my claim, and here I am writing you an email to escalate this situation.

As a customer, this is my perspective:

• Yes, weather conditions were exceptional in Calgary, of which damages to the transmission line cooler were incurred.
o I was not driving down any stretch of road that any other car was able to, yet mine resulted in catastrophic failure and in a potentially risky situation, being stranded on a road in poor conditions. “In Fact” my father’s Toyota Corolla was more than able to go down the same road without failure, to then pick me up as no other arrangements were available to get me home.
• Receiving a call on December 4th/13, from the Service Manager, who had yet to look at my vehicle (in fact he didn’t even know it arrived) to receive a “pre-diagnosis” of transmission cooler lines being damaged in this weather, as this was a “common issue”, indicates TO ME an inherent design flaw, that should be a warrantable item in these circumstances.
• After receiving news that I would have to pay out of pocket to repair the damages, I then went to pick up my vehicle to find that it did not drive like it did “prior” to the event, and that my right rear bumper and exhaust tip were scratched.
o From following “Volvo Roadside” procedures, using their sub towing company (Citywide) and your VAR Valentine Volvo, I’ve now a vehicle that is more damaged than if I were to have not engaged your process. This to me is not right, and I want some sort of remediation for both the incurred damages and time invested in following up with Valentine Volvo, Citywide Towing, Volvo Roadside Assistance, Volvo Canada, and now you.

As of this time, Friday December 20th/13, I’ve had no resolve to any of my raised concerns. Nobody outside of me paying my repair bill and has taken any accountability for any of the inconveniences I’ve endured and I do not believe that I should be the reciepient for all damages, especially the damage to my car’s body.

I’m not going to be unreasonable and demand that Volvo reimburses me for my costs and inconveniences as there is an element of road conditions, but I believe that something should be made right of my situation. At a minimum that the body/paint damages be repaired, and either credits or “IF” Volvo Canada be willing, to give their vote of confidence that their VAR repaired my transmission to an acceptable level through extended the Warranty of my car by another reasonable duration.
(By reasonable, perhaps 1 year/20k/km, of which should be of little cost for Volvo Canada to underwrite for, and would show the confidence Volvo Canada has in its products and resellers.

Please let me know what, if any, course of action will be taken, otherwise I will have to pursue compensation through both insurance and legal options.

Thank you,

[M.alex]

Why should Volvo reimburse you for damages from towing and/or on Valentine's property?

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by M.alex
Why should Volvo reimburse you for damages from towing and/or on Valentine's property?

Because as far as I know... I was instructed that I could park the car somewhere safe, leave my keys under my floor mat and they would have it towed to the dealer through Volvo's Roadside assistance.

I only found out it was Citywide after following up, who wouldn't take any accountability nor did Valentine, who claimed it was delivered before the start of the day.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by M.alex
Why should Volvo reimburse you for damages from towing and/or on Valentine's property?



Originally posted by r3ccOs


Because as far as I know... I was instructed that I could park the car somewhere safe, leave my keys under my floor mat and they would have it towed to the dealer through Volvo's Roadside assistance.

I only found out it was Citywide after following up, who wouldn't take any accountability nor did Valentine, who claimed it was delivered before the start of the day.

Im with M.alex on this one, I don't feel that the dealership should be held responsible based on the fact that they "instructed you" to leave your keys under your floor mat. That's all you.

However, keep raising a stink about your transmission because that's horseshit.

[speedog]

Why does your letter to Volvo Canada not include anything about moving the
Vehicle at WOT such as you related to farther up in this thread seeing as you sent them a link to this thread? Your story to them and what you've posted in this thread do not totally align and that coold be to your detriment.

Never the less, the situation sucks and you will most likely come out on the losing end, don't see the insurance company being of much assistance to you here either.

[dirtsniffer]

Yaaa. You should have stopped when you lost power.

Volvo should be responsible because you made an issue significantly worse?

[FraserB]

Either way, City Wide would be on the hook for the damages (if they even exist) to the rear bumper and tail pipe.

The fact that you are very willing to lie in an attempt to get your way should make the SM and everyone else doubt anything you say as it relates to this.

Curious as to why you didn't include the WOT, tons of smoke, burning smell and red fluid pouring out in your letter? Did you tell the SM this part?

[FraserB]

Originally posted by r3ccOs
My transmission is pretty much shot... car is relatively new and under warranty

Is being picked up sometime by citywide and delivered to the dealer.

What I want to prevent is... Sir, we will rebuild your tranmission for you

Now why I think this... is I was driving down the road, then the RPM's spike (auto) much like a worn clutch, the revs were going up but no power was being delivered.

I pulled into the only clear spot I could, which was a transit spot and called the roadside.

Being that it can take up to 24h's to get a tow, I had to move it to somewhere that I would be "ok" to leave it, and that took me 20 feet at wide open throttle to move anywhere, leaving a terrible amount of smoke and a nice long trail of red fluid everywhere.

Now, I had reported a tranny issue about 8 months ago, and was told "we cleared the codes and uploaded a new programme"

seemed to have worked alright, but never felt quite the same as when I first got it, but had assumed it was just due to different shift points.

well... this is obviously worse, and I don't want them to "rebuild" this transmission, and would rather have the manufacturer replace it.

From a Dealer perspective, there must be greater margins with rebuilding the transmission... but the cost has to be similar to the manufacturer if they go down this path (I think the book quotes 17 hours) vs swapping for a new transmission.

So how do I get the dealer to make this "right" but to my benefit and not theirs?

I guess someone hasn't yet quoted this for posterity.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by FraserB


I guess someone hasn't yet quoted this for posterity.

I'm not trying to lie to anyone, and they have the transcript of the call and events documented through their roadside assistance, should they require evidence.

I disclosed that I had to move my car to a "safe location" to the Service Manager, to Volvo Roadside assistance and I have pictures of the damages.

This note was not a note sent to a "service manager", this was sent to the president at Volvo Canada (not to be confused with a dealer - Valentine).

I'm not trying to get something for nothing. AND I am not trying to place any blame at all on the Dealer - Valentine.

I did not engage Valentine. It was all Volvo On-call who told me how to and where to park the car, where to place the keys and that the dealership should call about the assessment the next day.

At the end of the day, all I got was a PFO from everyone, and I ended up with a compromised vehicle with now damages to the bumper and rear exhaust.

I'm not sure where you think I'm lying or where you can now take a shot at my credibility, but I am not making up these damages, as I have pictures...
However Citywide alluded to, I need to prove otherwise, as I was not around when they towed away my vehicle.

Its all a he-said she-said situation, but yup, I had to move my vehicle to a location, which required me to jam on the accelerator to move it 20 feet, which I was instructed to do.

in all road conditions were bad, damages are "I guess" my fault due to their conditions.

However, I was travelling down the same stretch of road that any other car (RWD/AWD/SUV or whatnot) was able to go down, yet mine suffered damages to the transmission cooler line, just like a number of other Volvo's in town, as per the SM.

So at least I can "vent" my grievances around the design of the product.

However, the process to engage assistance, the towing, and receiving a further damaged vehicle... well is not "my fault".
I didn't call or hire Citywide, it was Volvo Roadside's sub, which is Volvo Canada's vendor to manage through their VMO, and I shouldn't be the one who has to "prove anything" or even speak to Citywide.

But receiving a PFO from Volvo Canada, and receiving a call from City Wide me to also tell me to PFO is not something I'm going to accept idlely.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by schurchill39





Im with M.alex on this one, I don't feel that the dealership should be held responsible based on the fact that they "instructed you" to leave your keys under your floor mat. That's all you.

However, keep raising a stink about your transmission because that's horseshit.

Its not the dealership issue at all.
The VAR is not the issue, they are a good re seller and volvo authorized service shop.

I mean, it'd be nice if the SM went a bit out of his way to vett this situation out as a Warranty issue, being that he saw so many cases reported in that time frame. That'd be my complaint there.

Its the process, as Volvo On-call is a Volvo Canada subcontracted service, who's vendor Citywide caused damages to my vehicle during its process of delivering it to Valentine.

Nobody signed off on anything and nobody was around to receive it.

Valentine didn't see the damages, and I probably wouldn't have neither, as it was quite dirty and Valentine had just washed my car.