Received E-transfer then the sender claimed it was fraud and locked my bank accnt!

[pheoxs]

Looking for some help from beyond. Today I received an e-transfer from someone online for selling two bitcoins through localbitcoins.com. Everything went find but then I find my bank account has been locked and when I phone the hotline I am told that I need to go into the branch in person.

I go into the bank and now they're saying my account has been flagged for fraud because the sender claimed the transfer was fraudulent and has now locked all my accounts, debit card, credit card, everything.

I spoke with the guy there and he seemed fairly helpful, he explained that typically they would terminate the account but I had sufficient explanation and information that he though it was legitimate.

Unfortunately my account is still frozen until they sort it out, but apparently interac is going to withdraw the money regardless from my account and send it back to the sender. I don't understand how this can even happen, the whole point of e-transfers are they aren't reversible.

Has anyone had this happen before? What do I do? I tried calling Interac but they are closed, going to try again tomorrow.

Update:
Everything finally got cleared up, just took a bit of time. TD Bank manager was really pleasant to deal with and very helpful throughout the whole ordeal.

It seems the other party had their account info phished and as a result someone wiped out their account buying things online and such

[88CRX]

Relevant thread here:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/376902/are-email-money-transfers-reversible/

edit: I see you posted in that thread as well

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by 88CRX
Relevant thread here:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/376902/are-email-money-transfers-reversible/

edit: I see you posted in that thread as well

Yeah, turns out I was mistaken and their site is crap.

Now I have no way to access any of my funds despite this etransfer being ~1/10th of whats sitting in my chequing account. I can't even use my credit card wtf.

[sabad66]

That's pretty f*ked up... good thing you have proof but still can't believe they locked all your accounts.

[AndyL]

Must be royal bank?

They really don't like bitcoins... Say bitcoin get locked with them - at least according to redditors...

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by AndyL
Must be royal bank?

They really don't like bitcoins... Say bitcoin get locked with them - at least according to redditors...

TD

The guy I spoke to at the branch says things should be resolved since I sent multiple screenshots of the conversation and transaction but interac will likely withdraw the money from my account and I'm SOL and have to deal with the buyer directly.

[roopi]

I never knew they froze all your accounts. I'd almost rather use Paypal in the future. At least they just take the money and call it a day. Hope this works out for you.

[rumeo]

Did you get your bitcoins back?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by rumeo
Did you get your bitcoins back?

Neither as of yet. Waiting until tomorrow to contact Interac to see what they say. Submitted a ticket to localbitcoins explaining the situation and asking them to freeze the funds but I'm willing to bet the second the guy got the money he withdrew them.

At the end of the day I think I'm SOL and out 2k$ as well as now my bank account has been flagged for fraud and banned from using e-transfers permanently according to what the bank rep said.

I don't understand it though. Even if its a hacked bank account why am I being punished? If you give your login info to a buddy, he sends me a e-transfer, then you say nope wasn't me, you get the money back and I'm the one that gets black flagged permenantly???

[rumeo]

I'm with TD as well and love them, but if this is the situation they're giving you and if they don't resolve it properly, I would switch banks.

[rumeo]

I'm with TD as well and love them, but if this is the situation they're giving you and if they don't resolve it properly, I would switch banks.

[quick_scar]

It is sh*t like this that I was worried about when selling bitcoin. This is partially why I only sold a small amount as a test to see the market for it, and why I got cash in person.

Sorry about your luck Pheoxs. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see how it turns out.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by quick_scar
It is sh*t like this that I was worried about when selling bitcoin. This is partially why I only sold a small amount as a test to see the market for it, and why I got cash in person.

Sorry about your luck Pheoxs. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see how it turns out.


Yeah no kidding. Ffs I hope I get my account released tomorrow. Really concerned that this will permanently flag my account and screw me over for insurance / mortgage down the road

[sabad66]

Talk to a branch manager and then switch banks. Take it all the way up to the CEO if you have to cuz that's absolutely retarded.

[taemo]

Sucks to hear man, this is why I posted on the previous thread never to do any EMT business unless you know the person, it is reversible (paypal is too unless you protect yourself).
But I didn't know that you would be flagged, banned in this kind of situations although I can see why they sided against you in your case as you're the one selling virtual goods for real money.

What was the scammers trader rating on localbitcoin and how many transactions did he have in the past?

[Ven]

Where's the fraud? Who cares if it bitcoins or a piece of shit or a wish for a pony for Christmas. Both parties agreed on an exchange, payment was made, done. If he got his stuff and you got paid what's the problem?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by taemo
Sucks to hear man, this is why I posted on the previous thread never to do any EMT business unless you know the person, it is reversible (paypal is too unless you protect yourself).
But I didn't know that you would be flagged, banned in this kind of situations although I can see why they sided against you in your case as you're the one selling virtual goods for real money.

What was the scammers trader rating on localbitcoin and how many transactions did he have in the past?

4 transactions, 3 month old account, supposedly email and phone verified not that that means much.


Originally posted by Ven
Where's the fraud? Who cares if it bitcoins or a piece of shit or a wish for a pony for Christmas. Both parties agreed on an exchange, payment was made, done. If he got his stuff and you got paid what's the problem?

I don't know. Even if it was a hacked bank account, isn't that what the banks insurance covers? Like why should the person that had their account get compromised get off scott free while I've always been super safe with my bank info and I'm the one that gets screwed out of money and my account locked.

[Unknown303]

I would stir up shit with your bank and regardless if they reverse it or not I'd be seriously looking at going elsewhere. Why they aren't standing up for you is beyond me.

[Env-Consultant]

Sorry to hear about you're bad luck. Pains me to read that after you posted you only wanted to sell them locally and in person to avoid this exact situation. I'm still relatively interested in buying one or two from you for cash, in person. I was looking for somewhere to buy them locally a couple weeks ago and did a Kijiji search - apparently there is a shop in Kensington that buys/sells them- not sure if they hose you on each transaction, but if you're looking to offload, it might be worth taking a look at.

Best of luck getting things sorted out.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Ven
Where's the fraud? Who cares if it bitcoins or a piece of shit or a wish for a pony for Christmas. Both parties agreed on an exchange, payment was made, done. If he got his stuff and you got paid what's the problem?

May be the buyer is trying to get the money back, scamming op 2 bitcoins?

[BigMass]

LMAO wow... so 5 years ago I was involved (a victim) in a 10 million dollar plus scam which cost me about $2000 sending money through EMT. Parties involved (including businesses that lost far more than I did), gathered evidence, names and took this info to police and the bank. My bank was TD. They did nothing, police did nothing, nothing came of it. Yet some random loser just got your account locked somehow? How is this even possible when we couldn't get our money back then? TD basically told me that EMT is a mutual transaction and there is nothing they can do once the money is sent. A trial and a judgement was the only way I could get my money back and the guy fled to Israel to avoid extradition. So how the fuck can a guy get away with millions of dollars without anybody doing anything, yet this guy locked your account for a couple thousand? Something is fucked in this system that's for sure

[ZenOps]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-05/bitcoin-tumbles-after-china-central-bank-bans-financial-companies-using-digital-curr

It might not have even been the other end, it might just be an extended excuse.

Banks are under no obligation to convert to any currency other than its native one. IE: You can ask for a single Rupee coin, but you will not get it, likewise if you want to buy Iranian Rials - no go, want to buy $101 worth of US pennies or nickels? Sorry, also illegal.

No bank anywhere would want you in alternate currencies. If they can keep you in the US (or Canadian) dollar loop of Visa/Mastercard/Amex with merchant fees around 3%. Assuming one purchase is made each day electroncially in this manner, in about a month - they have completely absorbed the purchasing power of that dollar.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by BigMass
LMAO wow... so 5 years ago I was involved (a victim) in a 10 million dollar plus scam which cost me about $2000 sending money through EMT. Parties involved (including businesses that lost far more than I did), gathered evidence, names and took this info to police and the bank. My bank was TD. They did nothing, police did nothing, nothing came of it. Yet some random loser just got your account locked somehow? How is this even possible when we couldn't get our money back then? TD basically told me that EMT is a mutual transaction and there is nothing they can do once the money is sent. A trial and a judgement was the only way I could get my money back and the guy fled to Israel to avoid extradition. So how the fuck can a guy get away with millions of dollars without anybody doing anything, yet this guy locked your account for a couple thousand? Something is fucked in this system that's for sure

I don't know either.

UPDATE:

I got a hold of interac this morning. Apparently there has been a massive skyrocket in the occurrence of this happening as of late. I asked how they can reverse the transaction because even on interac's site is says once deposited it can't be reversed.

She said they don't know yet, Interac doesn't allow cancellation after payment is made but somehow the sender's have figured out a way to get their bank to do a stop payment and reverse the funds.

Apparently Interac is trying to investigate the whole issue as well and find a way to prevent this from happening anymore because it looks bad on them too.

She was also surprised TD locked my whole account, she said that is a first for her and didn't realize they would do that over an e-transfer.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by pheoxs


I don't know either.

UPDATE:

I got a hold of interac this morning. Apparently there has been a massive skyrocket in the occurrence of this happening as of late. I asked how they can reverse the transaction because even on interac's site is says once deposited it can't be reversed.

She said they don't know yet, Interac doesn't allow cancellation after payment is made but somehow the sender's have figured out a way to get their bank to do a stop payment and reverse the funds.

Apparently Interac is trying to investigate the whole issue as well and find a way to prevent this from happening anymore because it looks bad on them too.

She was also surprised TD locked my whole account, she said that is a first for her and didn't realize they would do that over an e-transfer.

I don't know how TD can play judge jury and executioner. It's YOUR MONEY. How they can just keep it from you without a court order seems like theft. Maybe you should consider moving all your TD accounts. You called interact but what is TD saying? Did you go to the bank in person and tell them you wanted your money? If I were you I wouldn't be making any phonecalls, I'd be going ballistic at a branch yelling at the manager

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by BigMass


I don't know how TD can play judge jury and executioner. It's YOUR MONEY. How they can just keep it from you without a court order seems like theft. Maybe you should consider moving all your TD accounts. You called interact but what is TD saying? Did you go to the bank in person and tell them you wanted your money? If I were you I wouldn't be making any phonecalls, I'd be going ballistic at a branch yelling at the manager

I went in yesterday, gave them screenshots of everything etc. Was told they'd supposedly look into it and I should hear back hopefully today.

I have my personal opinion on things and will post it up once my account is unlocked. Last thing I need is to have someone at TD stumble upon this and go on a power trip >.<

[eblend]

Originally posted by roopi
I never knew they froze all your accounts. I'd almost rather use Paypal in the future. At least they just take the money and call it a day. Hope this works out for you.

Hum...someone mentioned it here, but paypal always sides with the buyer. I sold a laptop to some guy in Toronto with verified everything, got paid, and the exact same day transfered the money to my connected chequeing account. Got an e-mail from paypal 2 days later telling me that they are investigating and that my funds are frozen until the investigation is completed. Send them all the documents clearly showing that I was about to get fucked over from a laptop and from the $600 bucks, but they didn't care. Two days later their investigation was completed and they withdrew $600 from my account....however, I was ahead of the game, and went to my bank and changed my bank account number, so that in no way could paypal actually pull money out of my chequeing account. After this my paypal sat at -$600 for a few weeks before the constant calls started coming asking for the money from paypal. I got fed up and straight up told them to fuck off and never call me again...and surprisingly I haven't ever heard back from them and the whole thing went away from my perspective. Have a new paypal account now with a different e-mail and its been fine for the last 5-6 years, but i don't really sell anything anymore on ebay so i only use it to pay.

Sorry about your troubles, perhaps consider if you don't already have this, a second credit card from a different company just to have as a backup. Would suck having all your shit with one company and that company froze all your shit.

[roopi]

Originally posted by eblend


Hum...someone mentioned it here, but paypal always sides with the buyer. I sold a laptop to some guy in Toronto with verified everything, got paid, and the exact same day transfered the money to my connected chequeing account. Got an e-mail from paypal 2 days later telling me that they are investigating and that my funds are frozen until the investigation is completed. Send them all the documents clearly showing that I was about to get fucked over from a laptop and from the $600 bucks, but they didn't care. Two days later their investigation was completed and they withdrew $600 from my account....however, I was ahead of the game, and went to my bank and changed my bank account number, so that in no way could paypal actually pull money out of my chequeing account. After this my paypal sat at -$600 for a few weeks before the constant calls started coming asking for the money from paypal. I got fed up and straight up told them to fuck off and never call me again...and surprisingly I haven't ever heard back from them and the whole thing went away from my perspective. Have a new paypal account now with a different e-mail and its been fine for the last 5-6 years, but i don't really sell anything anymore on ebay so i only use it to pay.

Sorry about your troubles, perhaps consider if you don't already have this, a second credit card from a different company just to have as a backup. Would suck having all your shit with one company and that company froze all your shit.

If you don't confirm your bank account with Paypal they don't have the ability to withdraw funds from it. Paypal is a joke to but at least they can't freeze your bank account.

[pheoxs]

As of now I retract my frustration partially towards TD.

I spoke with the branch rep this morning and he was very friendly and hopeful. They're releasing all my accounts, less a hold for the amount in question.

He also said that from his point of view that he is on my side and feels I'm the one being defrauded and asked to send him additional information. Once TD has the extra information they will likely go to the sending bank and claim that the transfer was legitimate and not my fault and I may get to keep the funds and have everything cleared up.

Will update as things progress.

[eblend]

Originally posted by roopi


If you don't confirm your bank account with Paypal they don't have the ability to withdraw funds from it. Paypal is a joke to but at least they can't freeze your bank account.

Yah, at the time my bank was confirmed, that is why I changed the account number, and at that point they couldn't take the money back.

[rx7boi]

Jesus what a fucking mess.

Hope you get your money back, man.

That's so fucked that there is no client protection just cause some random asshole claimed fraud.

I guess even banks follow the mantra of "guilty until proven innocent."

[dezmarez]

Just an FYI, if the bank feels that you may have been frauded, they will freeze everything to prevent anything from coming out until the situation is rectified.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by dezmarez
Just an FYI, if the bank feels that you may have been frauded, they will freeze everything to prevent anything from coming out until the situation is rectified.

I'm almost wondering if that wasn't the case the whole time but poorly explained.

I would've though I'd get a call though from TD notifying me about it. The only reason I found out is my credit card didn't work and my EasyWeb access was locked.

Either way, my account is all back, E-transfer is still blocked and there is a hold for that amount but at least progressing forward so happy about that.

[taemo]

good to know!
investigation should take about 2 weeks, so hopefully you'll have your money before Christmas

[msommers]

Sounds like this could be a case for the media's attention... Just get all your ducks in a row beforehand because from the sounds of it, this is absolute horseshit.

[pheoxs]

So another (minor) update.

My accounts were released thankfully, minus the amount in questions.

Apparently the sender phoned their bank and claimed the transfer was fraudulent which auto flagged and locked my account. So that side of things at least is sorted out, now there is just a hold for said amount until it gets sorted out.

After a weekend of forums and google I think I've figured out one of three things happened and I got defrauded/scammed:

1. The buyer wanted free money and claimed it wasn't them that sent it

2. The person's account was phished and someone else sent the transfer

I had thought it was either or but apparently I found a different one I hadn't heard of:

3. Apparently there is a 'man in the middle' scam in which the scammer (person B) posts an ad on craigslist/kijiji with something for sale and requests a EMT from person A. When person A responds they go onto a different site and buys something from person C, asking for what email address to send to. Then they tell A to pay C and get the goods from C and disappear.

From reading online more and more it seems likely that I'm going to be SOL and they'll pull the money out of my account.

Dear TD: I have faith in you, please don't screw me over.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by msommers
Sounds like this could be a case for the media's attention... Just get all your ducks in a row beforehand because from the sounds of it, this is absolute horseshit.

:werd: Very interested to hear how things ends up being settled. Anything less than you getting every cent from the transaction is unacceptable in my view.

[pheoxs]

So one final (happy) update. All is well and back to normal. There was a week delay due to the Branch Manager being on holidays but he was really helpful through all of it and I wasn't in dire straights so didn't bother dealing with another TD person and having to re-explain everything over again.

Coles notes of the whole thing:

My account was frozen when I received an E-transfer that the sender claimed was fraudulent.

TD automatically froze my account to keep my funds in there in case I had been defrauded, or to prevent me from pulling out money if it was me doing the fraud. In hindsight this makes sense and after thinking about it a bunch I calmed down.

Thankfully it only took to the next morning to have all that cleared up (it was 5pm when I went to the bank in the first place otherwise would've been quicker).

Account was released minus a hold for those funds. Provided proof and such of the transaction etc. Once they were satisfied the transaction was consensual and completed they released all the funds and life is back to normal.

I talked with the Branch Manager a few times and he was really friendly and helpful to deal with. I guess the problem was mostly on the other person's bank forcing the freezing of my account and such.

It sounds like the person had their account info phished and as a result had their account cleaned out and the bank was trying to forcefully take the money back so they wouldn't have to cover as much under their insurance or something.

[bcylau]

OP, I am sorry to say, but I doubt you will see those 2 bitcoins back, and you will probably be SOL on the cash.

Because of the "secure" bitcoin encryption, there isn't really a traditional papertrail to speak off. Thats why it's drug lords and smugglers' currency of choice.

TD or the insurance underwriter might cover the "cash equivalent" if they recognized bitcoins as currency, but I am not sure if they do at this point in time.

Its probably up to localbitcoins.com to make it up to you and not TD.