Sport FWD car under $30k?

[qtcar]

So I started last week to search for a new car that I will be buying on May/2014... I was deciding between a Mustang or a Subaru BRZ since I always dreamed on having one of those two. But after reading reviews for a week, I was really sad finding out that RWD cars are terrible for snow, even with good winter tires and adding sand bags on the back.

That being said, I then decided after years waiting to buy one of these, that I would buy a FWD car (AWD are too expensive). I couldn't find too many interesting options, and I ended up with only 4 options under $30k:

- Civic SI
- Fiesta ST
- Focus ST
- Veloster Turbo

The Golf GTI is almost $35k with taxes, so it's not an option. Would anyone have any comments that could help me choosing the right car? I want good performance, but at the same time it has to be reliable, which is why I removed RWD cars from my list since I don't want to waste time on the road because my car can't drive on snow.

[flipstah]

You can get a Focus ST for under $30k? Nice.

Fiesta ST if you don't need big space. What about a 500 Abarth or a Cooper?

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by qtcar
I was deciding between a Mustang or a Subaru BRZ since I always dreamed on having one of those two. But after reading reviews for a week, I was really sad finding out that RWD cars are terrible for snow, even with good winter tires and adding sand bags on the back.


If you can't handle a newer RWD with decent winter tires, I don't know what to tell you :dunno:

[Sentry]

My Mustang was a lot of fun in the snow. Never got it stuck. Don't knock it til you've tried it (with good winter tires).

Either of the 4 on your list are good options though.

EDIT: And mine was 30 years old with no ABS, TCS, etc. :D

[btimbit]

You ruled out GTI but you can get a GLI for a touch under 30k if you play hardball. Usually get them around $30500. I'd recommended against the Civic SI, good car but I almost fell asleep test driving that thing, not sporty at all

[eglove]

Fiesta or Focus ST for sure

[tehwegz]

RWD is fun in the snow. Just saying.

Slightly used WRX
Sonic Turbo (meh, wasn't impressed. Fiesta ST for the $$$ is WORLDS better.)
2013+ Accord "Sport" Coupe
Mazdaspeed3 (slight used)
Dodge Dart (meh...just make sure its manual...there's like 7 trims of Dart with the Multi-Air turbo. Such a clusterf*** of a car...and the raspy noise it makes, really? You can grab any VTEC Honda and have even more fun.

Honestly for the $$$ ($22k to be exact) the Fiesta ST appeals to me most for some reason.

[relyt92]

I'm driving RWD this winter for the first time with blizzaks. It's a bit slower to actually get going from a stop but other than that there are no issues at all. Feels more predictable when I get into a bit of a slide as well. The Fiesta ST is getting amazing reviews as well.

[bulaian]

3rd year of driving my Mustang in winter and i've had no problems. Just get some decent snow tires like michelin x ice and you're good to go

[qtcar]

It's nice to hear that Fiesta/Focus ST are probably the best choice among the 4, since they are the ones I'm most inclined to buy.

Even better to see 3 comments saying that RWD is doable during winter... That keeps alive the possibility of a Mustang/BRZ. I'm just wondering if anyone would be honest to tell if they ever got stuck in a situation where a FWD would not... I know that FWD can get stuck as well, I just want to minimize this possibility.


Originally posted by flipstah
You can get a Focus ST for under $30k? Nice.

Fiesta ST if you don't need big space. What about a 500 Abarth or a Cooper?

Since I'm tall, I'm guessing I would fell a little uncomfortable inside them according to some reviews. Maybe the Cooper not so much, but I'm not a big fan of it anyway.


Originally posted by G-ZUS


If you can't handle a newer RWD with decent winter tires, I don't know what to tell you :dunno:

Honestly I've never driven a RWD in any weather, and it would be very hard to check if I can or can't handle it just by doing a single test drive on a snow day, so I'd have to assume that people's comment about how bad RWD is on snow is true..


Originally posted by tehwegz
RWD is fun in the snow. Just saying.

Slightly used WRX
Sonic Turbo (meh, wasn't impressed. Fiesta ST for the $$$ is WORLDS better.)
2013+ Accord "Sport" Coupe
Mazdaspeed3 (slight used)
Dodge Dart (meh...just make sure its manual...there's like 7 trims of Dart with the Multi-Air turbo. Such a clusterf*** of a car...and the raspy noise it makes, really? You can grab any VTEC Honda and have even more fun.

Honestly for the $$$ ($22k to be exact) the Fiesta ST appeals to me most for some reason.

The Dart and Sonic Turbo didn't impressed me either.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Graham_A_M]

Focus ST, no contest. :thumbsup:

[relyt92]

Originally posted by qtcar
[B]It's nice to hear that Fiesta/Focus ST are probably the best choice among the 4, since they are the ones I'm most inclined to buy.

Even better to see 3 comments saying that RWD is doable during winter... That keeps alive the possibility of a Mustang/BRZ. I'm just wondering if anyone would be honest to tell if they ever got stuck in a situation where a FWD would not... I know that FWD can get stuck as well, I just want to minimize this possibility.

I've been going through snow that's piled up a couple inches above the bottom of my front bumper on the side foothills industrial roads with no issues. Managed to get myself stuck briefly after dropping a friend off last night because my entire car was sitting on the snow, which fwd wouldn't have helped with anyway. Just shoveled about a foot infront and behind the wheels to allow me to get up enough momentum to continue on.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by qtcar
So I started last week to search for a new car that I will be buying on May/2014... I was deciding between a Mustang or a Subaru BRZ since I always dreamed on having one of those two. But after reading reviews for a week, I was really sad finding out that RWD cars are terrible for snow, even with good winter tires and adding sand bags on the back.

That being said, I then decided after years waiting to buy one of these, that I would buy a FWD car (AWD are too expensive). I couldn't find too many interesting options, and I ended up with only 4 options under $30k:

- Civic SI
- Fiesta ST
- Focus ST
- Veloster Turbo

The Golf GTI is almost $35k with taxes, so it's not an option. Would anyone have any comments that could help me choosing the right car? I want good performance, but at the same time it has to be reliable, which is why I removed RWD cars from my list since I don't want to waste time on the road because my car can't drive on snow.

Both Focus ST and GTI have a $3,500 cash allowance on right now, making them both a hair under your 30K cap. It's just that Ford does a much better job of advertizing this. I can't remember last time I saw a GTI commercial on TV, probably 2006/2007 with the unpimp ze auto guy.

[sxtasy]

Stick with your rwd choices and get a set of studded tires. I have driven many winters with open dif rwd trucks and have had no problems with getting stuck.

Plus oversteer is way more fun and predictable than fwd.

[k1l4m]

Originally posted by qtcar
Even better to see 3 comments saying that RWD is doable during winter... That keeps alive the possibility of a Mustang/BRZ. I'm just wondering if anyone would be honest to tell if they ever got stuck in a situation where a FWD would not... I know that FWD can get stuck as well, I just want to minimize this possibility.

Honestly I've never driven a RWD in any weather, and it would be very hard to check if I can or can't handle it just by doing a single test drive on a snow day, so I'd have to assume that people's comment about how bad RWD is on snow is true..



It is my first winter with a RWD car (no traction control) and studded winter tires. I've had no issues so far other than yesterday. Got stuck in a snow drift by my house (not enough ground clearance), but in my defense many FWD cars got stuck there as well... The car is a bit tail happy in the snow/ice though.

[theken]

I find fwd are worse in the snow, at least with a rwd you oversteer corners instead of plowing straight through them, I have owned a multitude of vehicles, and all of them have been driven in snow, the best was my 2wd jimmy with winters, followed by c63, and my 300zx did better in snow even with just all seasons, the civic, probe turbos and jetta were not bad, but the other cars are more fun. buy one, practice on roads with nobody around and in parking lots and you will have way more fun of a winter.

[Joe-G]

I've got an FRS (aka BRZ) with winters and haven't had any problems whatsoever. Its been a daily driver for me even through the massive blizzard we just had.

It is a bit hard to get going at icy intersections, but other than that it's very predictable. Youll see me in the fast lane passing all the cars most of the time...
:burnout: :burnout:

Only got stuck once, but that was from trying to screw around in an unplowed cul-de-sac. You really just have to be smart about where you stop, and where you have to keep the momentum going.

[Sentry]

Originally posted by Aleks


Both Focus ST and GTI have a $3,500 cash allowance on right now, making them both a hair under your 30K cap. It's just that Ford does a much better job of advertizing this. I can't remember last time I saw a GTI commercial on TV, probably 2006/2007 with the unpimp ze auto guy.
Peter Stormare!

Vdub in ze house, ja

[Sentry]

Picture of what I drove last winter. :D

http://i.imgur.com/DgaYMo2.jpg

The winter before that, I drove a SR20 240sx and an AE86.

The AE86 had some difficulties mainly because open diff and it was stripped and weighed like 2000lbs.

The Mustang chewed through snow like nothing cause it was 3000lbs and had an LSD.

[DeleriousZ]

RWD with a clutch or helical LSD is ridiculous amounts of fun in teh winter when you combine it with a good set of winters (studded are even better). I drove my old 300zx with an open diff in Edmonton for a few winters and it did great!!

I recently saw a black Focus ST driving down deerfoot and was really impressed with the way it looks. Looked like it was stock but it still had a decent exhaust note. I love the way the rear valence looks with the exhaust tips in the center. Never in my life thought I'd say a Ford looked good, but I do loves me some hot hatches.

Been trying to convince the gf to get a Fiesta ST. can't seem to go wrong with those cars, amazing reviews everywhere.

[austic]

I don’t know, getting rid of my rwd 135i was the best thing I ever did for winters. I had top of the line studded tires but the problems were deep snow like we had the past few days. I think one time I had to shovel my car out 3 times in one day. Went to an AWD with awesome winters and it’s a world of a difference.

[khanan]

Not sure if posted before but have you considered getting the new mercedes cla class. I know that it goes over the price range but hey it's a fwd merc! starts at $33,900.

Pretty sure you could get used ones starting this winter, from trade ins and what not.

Or you can opt for the AWD Cla45 AMG, just a beefed up version with 350 hp (i think)... Much fun.

[khanan]

Originally posted by austic
I don’t know, getting rid of my rwd 135i was the best thing I ever did for winters. I had top of the line studded tires but the problems were deep snow like we had the past few days. I think one time I had to shovel my car out 3 times in one day. Went to an AWD with awesome winters and it’s a world of a difference.

I just bought an old truck, I was tired of shovelling my car out every winter. Best investment so far ahaha.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

My 135i got stuck in deeper snow a ton the past couple years, so I parked it and bought a $1000 Subaru, which I've still gotten stuck in twice.

Ground clearance is the huge factor for getting stuck with most any vehicle in the winter.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by khanan
Not sure if posted before but have you considered getting the new mercedes cla class. I know that it goes over the price range but hey it's a fwd merc! starts at $33,900.

Pretty sure you could get used ones starting this winter, from trade ins and what not.

Or you can opt for the AWD Cla45 AMG, just a beefed up version with 350 hp (i think)... Much fun.

I think OP should really go with the new AWD E63, also much fun.


:rolleyes:



@OP, seems like the new Fords are really popular. Also, the average driver will have an easier time driving FWD/AWD in the winter than they would RWD. Having said that, I'm on what will surely be my last FWD car. AWD and RWD are just too much fun when it's snowy/slippery.

[eglove]

We've got oversteer in the ST's don't worry about that ;)

[NoMoreG35]

How is getting stuck in deep snow related to the car being FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD/4x4... :confused:

[Redlined_8000]

I think for the $30k area Focus ST is your car. IMO its the best front wheel drive car on the market for the money.

[khanan]

Originally posted by cjblair


I think OP should really go with the new AWD E63, also much fun.


:rolleyes:



@OP, seems like the new Fords are really popular. Also, the average driver will have an easier time driving FWD/AWD in the winter than they would RWD. Having said that, I'm on what will surely be my last FWD car. AWD and RWD are just too much fun when it's snowy/slippery.

Such price, many monies, wow.

starts at 55k... way over OP's limit ahaha

[xnvy]

^ -> The point of his post
-> Your head

Fiesta ST or BRZ. Both will be heaps of fun and I don't think either will hold a particular advantage over the other in winter as long as they both have the proper tires.

[ercchry]

i have a current gen mustang, its lowered, and i bought "performance" winters for it (read, shitty ass tires) and it was perfect. never got stuck once, very stable on the highway. only time i even used the electrical aides was for highway driving when i just wanted to turn my brain off.

instead of just writing off RWD cars... why not go test drive one while there is snow on the roads? :dunno:

[khanan]

OP already said brz was out of the equation.... :rolleyes:

The question is, does it have to be brand new, 0 meter?

Because if you opt for a fairly new used one, you can expand your search even more and save some money too. Just my two cents.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by xnvy
^ -> The point of his post
-> Your head



Glad someone understood me.

[qtcar]

Happy to see that many replies...

From the comments, it seems that there is no final agreement whether FWD or RWD would be easier to not get stuck on snow/ice. It seems I will have to think a lot about it and do several test drives, maybe on snow, to decide...

At least it seems that everybody agrees that if going with FWD, Fiesta/Focus ST will definitely be the best option.


Originally posted by khanan
OP already said brz was out of the equation.... :rolleyes:

The question is, does it have to be brand new, 0 meter?

Because if you opt for a fairly new used one, you can expand your search even more and save some money too. Just my two cents.

I took the brz out of the equation, some posts made me put it again, not I'm undecided :confused:

I was thinking on brand new mainly for the fact that I can get graduate rebate and good rates for financing a new one. Also, I'm planing to stay with the car for many many years. If I were to get an used one, it would have to be at most 1 year old.

[95EagleAWD]

If you can't drive RWD in the snow, you have other problems. RWD, snow tires, and you're good to go.

[max_boost]

I have heard nothing but great things about the Focus and they are sharp looking cars. I would say FRS/BRZ as well but the number one choice in that segment will always be the Golf/GTI for me. :love: :thumbsup:

[khanan]

I see, you don't really care about loosing money then.

What I meant was you could probably get a used one, but don't take any chances if you do plan to keep it for a long time.

You could buy an expensive car, a year older for a lower price and you could get it certified and such. So the warranty will also transfer to you too.

Don't take my word for it because I have never bought anything from a dealer ahaha.

But my friend did get the new si and he pays about 300/month so that's pretty good yeah?

[NoMoreG35]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
If you can't drive RWD in the snow, you have other problems. RWD, snow tires, and you're good to go.

I think a lot of Calgary drivers have that problem. Whenever I tell ppl what I drive, they always look at me in disbelief :nut:

[avishal26]

You can drive any configuration in the snow, as long as you know your limits and have experience in the snow.

That being said, In my personal opinion, RWD are WAY more predictable in the winter - like someone already mentioned... drifting through the corner is better than not being able to make the turn at all.

Think about it this way... in a FWD if you are driving in snow, you give it power and you can't get any traction, then you have effectively lost your steering ability as well as long as your front wheels are trying to get grip to move. With RWD, you almost never lose your steering ability - unless you are going too fast.. in which case neither AWD/FWD or RWD will help you....

Just depends on personal preference and driving ability.

I would never drive a FWD in the winter if I have a choice. I recently rented a chevy cruze (FWD) and I had such a hard time... but then again I'm used to AWD :)

[r3ccOs]

i've heard the fiesta ST is just a blast

[LOLzilla]

Fiesta or Focus ST. Ford has factory modifications available for both of these cars. A true enthusiasts car.

[Kardon]

Not all RWD are created equal, so if you've been reading up on how terrible 2wd pickup trucks are in the winter, realize that a truck's weight balance is horrible; most of the weight rides on the front axle. A car like the FRS/BRZ is not so bad, it has a slight bias to the front, which will help with turn in. Combine this near 50/50 weight balance with a proper LSD and some good tires, you will have a fun winter. Other option is, buy the cheapest FWD you can afford so you can start saving back up for a true enthusiasts car, a RWD.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Kardon
Not all RWD are created equal, so if you've been reading up on how terrible 2wd pickup trucks are in the winter, realize that a truck's weight balance is horrible; most of the weight rides on the front axle. A car like the FRS/BRZ is not so bad, it has a slight bias to the front, which will help with turn in. Combine this near 50/50 weight balance with a proper LSD and some good tires, you will have a fun winter. Other option is, buy the cheapest FWD you can afford so you can start saving back up for a true enthusiasts car, a RWD. Holy shit, haven't seen you in like 2 years.

[Deetz]

For that kind of money, you could look at awd Subura imprezza models.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Deetz
For that kind of money, you could look at awd Subura imprezza models.

the n/a models are so awful to drive

[Skidro]

Get a newer nissan sentra spec v, the qr25 is a solid engine and it comes with a hlsd in the 6 speed, you could get something with little mileage for 20k ish

[dexlargo]

The biggest problem with RWD, in my experience, is uphill starts. But since traction control now exists, except for trucks with no weight in the back, would FWD really have much of an advantage?

That said, I only buy AWD for winter commuting and put on snow tires, because Canada.

[avishal26]

Originally posted by dexlargo
The biggest problem with RWD, in my experience, is uphill starts. But since traction control now exists, except for trucks with no weight in the back, would FWD really have much of an advantage?

That said, I only buy AWD for winter commuting and put on snow tires, because Canada.

^ True, uphill starts are not the most fun in RWD, but not much better in a FWD.

The problem I find with modern traction control is that if both rear (or front) wheels are on ice uphill, then all you are doing when you press the gas pedal is asking the traction control to cut back your power and apply brakes to your drive wheels because it detects spinning. Doesn't help you move unless you have AWD :D (because the traction control then has somewhere to send the power to.)

[tehwegz]

Wait for the new Speed3, should be awesome. Quite the wait though.

Fiesta/Focus ST are great no doubt...Fiesta ST especially, for the money.

The Sentra is ugly as balls and I'm not impressed one bit with Nissan products other than Maxima, 370z, and GT-R of course. Everything else I've driven by them is an uninspiring utter POS.

Civic Si is getting more torque by the year, but still remains at that incredibly boring number of 201 for hp. Hopefully North America sees some of that epic Honda turbo action...and soon.

GTi is due for MK7

Acura ILX is actually pretty nice, took up where the first gen TSX left off...just black out the beak and it looks pretty damn good too.

Dart SRT needs to come out...otherwise from the endless trims I've driven so far (SE, SXT, Aero, Rallye, 2.4L Multi-Air, GT) it's awful and they actually command a $30k price tag for some of them. So far the highest trim is the GT and has 184hp/174lb-ft using a turbo...but that's still a 30k Neon...you could get the ILX for that money, or better yet the tried and true Civic Si. Or better-better yet, $22k for the Fiesta ST...a $30k Dodge Fart Vs a $22k Fiesta ST...the ST wins by far.

Last one I can think of, the turbo Chevy Sonic is a joke.

[qtcar]

If I were to stick with RWD then, would anyone not recommend a used or new mustang? I really like the current version, and with the new version coming next year, I'd probably be able to get a base 2012 V6 for < $20k (meaning I'd be able to save ~$10k compared to the BRZ), and a new one will probably also have good rebates...

I will do a TD on all four (Mustang, BRZ, Fiesta/Focus ST) anyway, I'm just wondering what is the opinion of everyone.

[snowcat]

I have driven RWD all my life, until recently. I agree that RWD is fine in the snow; however, in what I thought would surely get stuck - the FWD just plowed right over no problems.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by tehwegz
Hopefully North America sees some of that epic Honda turbo action...and soon.

Hoping for a Turbo Honda is akin for expecting to come home and find your house filled with pots of gold.... not happening. :rofl:

[InLoveWitRSX]

if you're looking to save money , get a dart! they are a blast to drive and handle really well in the winter, I got mine fully loaded for $24k, oh and they're also awesome on gas, I average 32-35mpg city driving

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M


Hoping for a Turbo Honda is akin for expecting to come home and find your house filled with pots of gold.... not happening. :rofl:

It has happened already.

http://www.honda.ca/newsdetails/nca/en/news/release/Honda-Develops-VTEC-TURBO-Direct-Injection-Gasoline-Turbo-Engine-That-Achieves-Classleading-Output-and-Environmental-Performance

[tehwegz]

Originally posted by Aleks


It has happened already.

http://www.honda.ca/newsdetails/nca/en/news/release/Honda-Develops-VTEC-TURBO-Direct-Injection-Gasoline-Turbo-Engine-That-Achieves-Classleading-Output-and-Environmental-Performance

yup

they're trying to make the CT-R *by far* the fastest FWD production car ever just like the IT-R did. Love it. Just wish they'd make it look appealing...pics of it I've seen so far are awful, like put a paper bag on it.

What I was trying to say was hopefully it trickles down in to the Civic/Fit...Fit could have an Si trim that competes with the Fiesta ST. Civic Si would then trump pretty much every turbo FWD ever conceived.

#wishfulthinking

[qtcar]

So a few days after opening the topic... You guys convinced me about RWD, and I'm about to close a 2013 Mustang V6 base, with less than 10k km, for $21,000 + taxes. Am I doing wrong?

With the money I will be saving buying a cheaper one, I could already start saving for a future car...

[Hallowed_point]

The new v6 mustangs are nothing to scoff at..regular fuel..over 300 hp, 0-60 in under 6 seconds. It's pretty much win win on all accounts.. besides the fact that it'll never sound like a V8 :poosie: I'd say it's a great pick. Much better then a v6 camaro. Stick shift?

[qtcar]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
The new v6 mustangs are nothing to scoff at..regular fuel..over 300 hp, 0-60 in under 6 seconds. It's pretty much win win on all accounts.. besides the fact that it'll never sound like a V8 :poosie: I'd say it's a great pick. Much better then a v6 camaro. Stick shift?

Good to read that :) And yeah, stick shift.

[relyt92]

Price seems to be a tad high compared to here, but no idea on what the market is like there. Ton of car for the money either way even at 21k. Tons of aftermarket things to do that will make the car more the way you want it too.