Has anyone ever worked/visited Saudi Arabia?

[bitteeinbit]

I've got a possible work contract in Saudi Arabia (1 yr). It's pretty last minute (would mean starting in January). Now, I don't work in the O&G sector, but I'm guessing maybe one of you has experience working there, or knows someone who has worked there.

The way I see it now:
The Pros:
-Pay/benefits (peanuts for you Beyond ballers, but quite attractive for me)
-Great for my CV (career-wise... Which I really need)
-A mid-contract flight back (nice touch I suppose)
-30+ days off (I forget the exact number, maybe even closer to 60)
-Bonus at the end of the contract
-Opportunity to learn Arabic (I love languages)
-Opportunity to SAVE some decent cash (no booze/women). I don't see myself spending much over there.

The Downsides:
-Feeling like I'm living in a prison ([i]especially[i] since I've been working in South East Asia for the the past few years).
-No women... And I'm only getting older! A potentially "wasted" year. I could have been dating hot chicks China, Korea or some other exotic place. Can't even "see/look" at women over there... Hell, I'd probably get my arm chopped off if they found porn on my computer, lol.
-No booze (I don't drink much, but I do enjoy the occasional drink).
-Generally very restrictive (rules and all). Probably the most restrictive of the Gulf States.

I've got another interview lined up for a different position in another country, which is maybe a bit more attractive overall, but pays less. I really want to make/save money but... At what cost? Maybe if I were a bit older (I'm 28, but look older ;-)) and single I'd go for it. Then again, making cash-runs like this should be done young (but at the same time, I 'd be spending a year of my youth making $$$ instead of chasing tail or just living a generally comfortable life).

So my questions:
-What is the cost of living there? Food/housing etc?
-How is life actually like there In Riyadh or other cities? Maybe my view of the restrictiveness is flawed or somewhat outdated?
-Is there a bit expat community/activities to do?
-What were your impressions of SA? Or what did a co-worker tell you about it?

Any input appreciated.

[CapnCrunch]

I've only heard of guys working in big compounds there, which are basically working 12 hour days with other white guys on the compound, and drinking when they're not working. Tons of cash though.

It sounds like your opportunity is a bit different? However, I don't know if there's much about Saudi culture that you'd find appealing lol.

[busdepot]

My parents live in Kuwait and I've been over to visit them. Not SA, but might as well be really.

Housing I can't really comment on because it's all paid for by the company. Life is pretty boring to be honest. There's no pubs or places to meet people really. There are shisha bars and that kind of thing, but you will be treated as a foreigner. There is a a very definite class system in the GCC area. Saudi isn't as bad as other places, but it is still there. The hierarchy is as follows:

-Family of the House of Saud,
-Important Saudis (those with what is referred to as 'wasta')
-Normal Saudis
-American Expats
-Western Expats
-Other Expats
-Chinese/Japanese Expats
-Indian/Sri-lankan Expats
-workers

I use the Expat terms to refer to those working for oil companies and educated peoples. Not the expats who work as nannies. Those people are treated like absolute dirt, including but not limited to, being raped, beaten, mutilated, murdered, etc. It's a real thing, no matter what the locals will tell you. Race is a big thing. If you are white, you will have a higher standing and pay than an Indian working the same job, but less pay than a Saudi doing the same job. This is just how it is. Saudis are typically the hardest working out of the rest of the GCC countries. They will not be as productive as a western worker, however, they are infinitely better than an Emirati or a Kuwaiti (the laziest people ever). People from Oman are also typically harder working.

Given that life in these countries would seem to be completely alien to us, the expat communities are very good. My parents work for a Major O&G in KW and there's constantly activities with other westerners. Golf, bingo, other games, parties, etc. There is booze there. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Embassies are all stocked and have parties on a semi regular basis. In KW, bring booze into the country is not at all difficult. SA may be a little more strict. There are lots of social events, but they're not what they would be here. Eating is SA is good. All the western chains are there and lots of others. You'll be fed well. Any kind of food you want is there.

Keep in mind that a lot of the people who take these assignments are a bit older and are more frequently married, so it can be an older crowd. This will make it a challenge to get laid. Single women who would be available to you are far and few between. You can however take a flight into Europe for the weekend to take care of personal business. My parents regularly take 3 day trips into Europe for breaks.

That being said, there will be locals who will also be working there. Most of them are typically very westernized and have lived outside of SA/KW and will be able to help you to adjust to life there.

Costs aren't unreasonable. Going out to eat is maybe a little bit more expensive than what it is in Calgary. Groceries can go either way. Local produce, usually from Jordan, is very cheap. Meats are all very fresh (with the exception of pork, obvi). Lots of good fish too. However, you can get western goods too at the Carrefour or other stores which cater to expats. They aren't always obvious, but they're around. Here, you will pay a premium for stuff in European sized western products like cereals and juice, etc. Not really worth it for somethings, but a piece of home is sometimes needed. Other goods are the same. Local furnishings are pretty cheap from the Souks (markets) and you can haggle. They will rip you off because you may not speak arabic, but it's still a deal for westerners. Carrefour or Ikea are more expensive than they would be in the west.

Gasoline is obviously ridiculously cheap. Costs $12 to fill up my parents land cruiser. Driving however is exceptionally dangerous. Traffic laws are not enforced. However, if you are involved in an accident with a Saudi, you will be at fault, regardless of the situation.
Do not comment on Islam, the Saudi family, religion issues of any kind, women's issues, or issues which could be sensitive to Saudis. Don't talk about the retarded blasphemy laws, or any type of crime, even if its on the front page of the news paper with a Saudi until you know them very well and have a very good rapport with them. Chatting with other westerners about these issues is fine provided you're not in public or you're exceptionally discreet. Do not under any circumstance lose your temper in public or at work. This will not help you and it will be more trouble than its worth.

Internet is fucking garbage and cell service is ok. Minarets go off 5 times a day, starting at 5am. Ramadan is in the summer this year (long days with no food and it's fucking hot). Breaking the fast during Ramadan, even as a westerner is very frowned on. So plan your vacation for then because fuck all gets done for that month.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes. It's Friday and I've run out of fucks :clap:

Any other questions about GCC living, pm me.

[osspasha]

My dad used to work with Saudi Aramco

-What is the cost of living there? Food/housing etc?
>Zero tax, you dont pay any kind of tax, no property,sale or income tax.
> living cost is very low, you can rent a nice condo one bedroom condo for SR 20k, which is equivalent to $5k a year.
> Gas is SR 0.6/ Liter equivalent to $0.17/L i know its dirt cheap.
>food is cheap, you can have good breakfast for $3, lunch for $6 and dinner for another $3 (that if you dont want to cook)
>unless you do drugs or drink, you will save at least 80% of what is written on contract. and yeah dont do drugs (You can get death penalty for using or dealing)

-How is life actually like there In Riyadh or other cities? Maybe my view of the restrictiveness is flawed or somewhat outdated?

Riyadh is mainly conservatives, nice roads, nice cars, most rich people live there.
Jeddah is more open minded. more foreigners live there

No alcohol unless you live in a private residential complex, think of those complex like reserve but for white people mainly and foreigners. most laws doesnt apply behind the walls of that complex

Driving: saudi is enforcing huge traffic control, with a system that will make alberta radar enforcement look like a joke, they have cars that drive around all day, and if you switched a lane without signalling you will get a ticket, tickets dont go through filtering and no court to fight it lool, you will receive an instant msg that you got a ticket (or your employer if its a company vehicle). and still a lot of saudis die from road stunts.

So basically saudi cities look similar to Dallas, TX. Actually Saudi looks like Texas except no casinos/bars/clubs/cinemas.

-Is there a bit expat community/activities to do?

People there are big on off-roading and camping in the desert, they will put albertans to shame. its really the only thing to do there, you need to be friends with the right people tho.

Pro tip, use your vacation days to fly to countries like Egypt, south africa, etc... flights are dirt cheap. You can get all inclusive trip to Egypt for as low as $1500 for 2 weeks.
I know a guy that goes to Beirut once a month, for pressure reliefing if you catch my drift loool


-What were your impressions of SA? Or what did a co-worker tell you about it?
I lived in saudi when i was a teen. there is a lot of BS in the media, country is ok, i wont live there, but if you are going for 1 year, and you will make money that will help you with a mortgage or to improve your career, why the hell not.

i wont live there tho.

People are generally nice, they will treat u with respect.

Racism, this is from an article

"I guess that the bulk of the Saudis that I mix with on a day to day basis whilst working for a company in Saudi Arabia are on the whole quite well educated, having degrees, well traveled overseas, with a good grasp of the English language. In my experience these people act and behave in much the same way as any westerner in most situations, they are however very reserved in general with regard to their behavior in public and try to maintain a very decent front.
Treatment of Expats that have come from countries other than western countries is however far from ideal. I have witnessed verbal and physical abuse of staff from India, the Philippines and other countries that would have resulted in people being fired and staff making huge claims for compensation in the west. However many Saudi's show no tolerance or respect for workers from these countries."

However this is improving now due to ton of regulations saudi labour board passed, and revoked ton of business licenses due to discrimination and what not.

[osspasha]

Originally posted by busdepot

Costs aren't unreasonable. Going out to eat is maybe a little bit more expensive than what it is in Calgary. Groceries can go either way. Local produce, usually from Jordan, is very cheap. Meats are all very fresh (with the exception of pork, obvi). Lots of good fish too. However, you can get western goods too at the Carrefour or other stores which cater to expats. They aren't always obvious, but they're around. Here, you will pay a premium for stuff in European sized western products like cereals and juice, etc. Not really worth it for somethings, but a piece of home is sometimes needed. Other goods are the same. Local furnishings are pretty cheap from the Souks (markets) and you can haggle. They will rip you off because you may not speak arabic, but it's still a deal for westerners. Carrefour or Ikea are more expensive than they would be in the west.
[/B]


Doest apply to Saudi Arabia



Do not comment on Islam, the Saudi family, religion issues of any kind, women's issues, or issues which could be sensitive to Saudis. Don't talk about the retarded blasphemy laws, or any type of crime, even if its on the front page of the news paper with a Saudi until you know them very well and have a very good rapport with them. Chatting with other westerners about these issues is fine provided you're not in public or you're exceptionally discreet. Do not under any circumstance lose your temper in public or at work. This will not help you and it will be more trouble than its worth.


Dont talk about religion or politics at all. Dont comment/swear on (islam/chritianity/Judism) or prophets or even jesus. off course if you got in trouble, canadian embassy will save your ass looool. usually when police know that u r western they dont arrest you for things like that.

[busdepot]

Interesting that Saudi is a lot cheaper to live in. That explains all the KSA license plates in KW though hahaha.

We went into SA for a bit when I was there last Christmas, but not into Riyadh or Jeddah, only to Dammam. So not too familiar with those places, just KW really.

[osspasha]

Originally posted by busdepot
Interesting that Saudi is a lot cheaper to live in. That explains all the KSA license plates in KW though hahaha.

We went into SA for a bit when I was there last Christmas, but not into Riyadh or Jeddah, only to Dammam. So not too familiar with those places, just KW really.

yeah saudi is dirt cheap, they have the lowest income among gulf countries which explains why its cheaper.

[bitteeinbit]

Thanks for quick answers so far. I've lived abroad a lot and have enough common sense not to start talking politics/religion, especially in a place like SA. I'm surprised about the cheap cost of living... 500$ for a nice studio?! Cool. I figured 500$ would get something kind of crappy (and I want to live on the cheap).

The company wouldn't be outright paying for my accommodation, it's all based on "benefits" (base salary+benefits for housing, expenses, bonus etc). So I guess if I really wanted to, I could get a really cheap place (or go high-class). Still, seems expenses would be:
-rent (I stay in a paid-for hotel for the first month or so until I find a place)>> Let's say 400-600$/month
-electricity/utilities. I dunno, say 50$
-internet: Maybe 40$
-Food: 200$??
-Eating out: 100-200$ish
My biggest expenses would probably be small travel days or trips abroad. So I take it it's easy for foreigners to buy a motorcycle/car in SA?

Those prices for breakfast/lunch/dinner (3-6-3) are for small local mom and pop restaurants? Or is that if you cook at home? The plus side of no alcohol/stuff to do is that you save a lot. Small 3-5 day escapades in Europe/Lebanon or SEA would be nice. From what I gather (looking at Saudi national holidays online), most holidays are close together/consecutive though. I'm guessing that's why they provide a "mid-contract" flight back.

[osspasha]

Originally posted by bitteeinbit

Those prices for breakfast/lunch/dinner (3-6-3) are for small local mom and pop restaurants? Or is that if you cook at home?

no thats ur average restaurants

mcdonalds is amazing there, u will never believe the quality of food they serve

ton of healthy restaurants that will give u a will balanced meals for really cheap, making cooking pointless.

make sure u get a good gym membership, super expensive, but dont go to cheap gyms, and there are a lot of homosexual men (i dont have anything against them), a lot of them will approach foreigners, since saudis do report them and "its a death penalty for being homo over there"

buying a car and a bike is easy as long as u pay cash. no finance, having a car is a must, since public transportation is garabge.

even tho main streets in major cities are super clean and the lanes are bigger than our lanes, DONT RIDE A BIKE OR A BICYCLE. for ur safety. people drive like idiots over there

car insurance is fixed my dad s500 was insured for $1600 a year, and it doesnt go up if u got speeding tickets or got into accidents, however its no compulsory. however u cant have a driver license without one way insurance ($300 a year)


whats your job title over there, and what company u will be working for.

carry your work permit with u at all times, ilegal immigrants is very high there, and police can ask for it any time

if you got pulled over by a cop, you have to step out of ur car and go to him, they dont come to you loool, most of the time u will not get a ticket becuase a lot of cops dont speak english loool, DONT ATTEMPT TO BRIBE THEM. bribery is a big sin in islam and can land u three years in jail

make sure your work permit (iqama) has a company name as a sponsor (kafel) not a person name.

Your religion will be written on your work permit card, some employers will tell you to right muslim to enter makkah and madinah as non muslims dont enter, DONT DO THAT. the islamic police can detain you if u r seen walking the street during prayer time.

Sharia law over there has nothing to do with actual Sharia, its customized to control saudis.

if your atheist, just write christian when asked, dont go with jew/hindu/ buddah etc.

When you go there you will have to surrender your passport to your employer, some employers let u keep it. but majority dont

finally it snowed there today

http://i.imgur.com/9GsHEHG.jpg

[osspasha]

ton of videos on youtube to see how cities look like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjoCVGZjl0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FO5wJADiqE

[googe]

Don't even think about going to such a shithole.

[01RedDX]

.

[khanan]

Aren't you guys under the constant fear of being persecuted for practising witchcraft. Or that someone might strap drugs in your home. :rofl: