1 child dead, another in serious condition after Glenmore Trail crash

[thetransporter]

1 child dead, another in serious condition after Glenmore Trail crash

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/1-child-dead-another-in-serious-condition-after-glenmore-trail-crash-1.2469653

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2469685.1387417035!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/glenmore.jpg

[120Comm]

Child deaths hit emergency responders hard, myself included. Child deaths during the holiday season.. I'm very nearly literally sick to my stomach.

RIP little guy, and all the best to your family and loved ones.

[codetrap]

Stupid comments on that article. One guy blaming the city for not having all the roads clear and dry during a snowstorm. I know, maybe we could tear up all the roads in the city and install HEATED roads. That way the snow will melt all over the city at once, and nobody needs winter tires anymore!

My condolences to the family. I can't imagine what they're going through.

[BigDannyCool]

That stretch of glenmore was still closed when i drove by at 9

[01RedDX]

.

[rob the knob]

rip

many people driving out of their ability today i saw. blame in this case do not change the outcome. but people take it easy out there. tomorrow will be bad driving again
slow down.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Glenmore Trail and all the other major routes were in such terrible shape today that a tragedy was inevitable. My stomach is turning, poor little guys.

That's the thing, it wasn't in terrible shape when I drove through there just before this happened. And this sure was inevitable.

This was nothing but driver error and driving way too fast for conditions.

[mrsingh]

As a parent of a two year old this hits hard, RIP.

[snowcat]

Stock rims may indicate an inferior tire.

[speedog]

Originally posted by snowcat
Stock rims may indicate an inferior tire.

Really?

Man, this has to be one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

[sr20s14zenki]

Wow snowcat, you're a fucking idiot.

go crawl back into your hole and shut the fuck up.


First, i hope you never procreate. BUT, if by chance you do, i hope this never happens to you, because i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[4bier]

driving home on glemore that morning saw a wild one, ford sporttrac lost control got hit by semi in one lane dump truck in the other. i got the aftermath semi b lined it straight into my car someone up there was lookin out for me some how he pushed my car and side swiped the rest i was beyond fing lucky

[GoChris]

Global news just showed a dash cam video of the truck crash, well, cut away right before impact. But the truck was going to fast for the conditions and yes the extra snow buildup along the center divider made it easy to jump it. Scary.

[KRyn]

Gah, sad to hear about one child passing away. Saw an update on the news about 6:00 pm that said one in serious condition and another in serious but stable condition. :(
I can't imagine what the parent / driver of that car must be going through right now.

[n1zm0]

A week before christmas too :(


Originally posted by speedog


Really?

Man, this has to be one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.


Yeah right? Is this real life? I think that might actually be top 3 most ridiculous statement from snowscat. :banghead: really...

[you&me]

The news is showing the dash cam video. The mother of the children was driving far too fast. It looks like she came up quickly on a car in the middle lane, changed to the left to pass, lost control and went over the median.

I was on my way home last night with my 20 month old daughter in the car. We crossed paths with the flat deck that was hauling the dodge. Sent a chill up my spine. Needless to say, it was a slow and quiet ride home.

Slow down, be courteous, be aware of your surroundings and the other vehicles around you. Take it easy out there.

RIP to the little guy.

[heavyfuel]

Can't imagine losing a child on the best of days let alone this time of year. So sad. RIP. People really need to slow the fuck down in this weather but as demonstrated year after year with the sheer volume of crashes and tragedies like these it's clearly never going to happen.

Surprised nobody started tearing into the truckers involved yet blaming them for this lol most times when there's a tragedy involving a big rig the torches and pitchforks come out faster than a soccer mom on a schedule lol

[you&me]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
Can't imagine losing a child on the best of days let alone this time of year. So sad. RIP. People really need to slow the fuck down in this weather but as demonstrated year after year with the sheer volume of crashes and tragedies like these it's clearly never going to happen.

Surprised nobody started tearing into the truckers involved yet blaming them for this lol most times when there's a tragedy involving a big rig the torches and pitchforks come out faster than a soccer mom on a schedule lol

I don't think anyone will be blaming the trucks in the instance. They were driving in the opposite direction; it wasn't until the driver of the pickup truck made a mistake, crossed over the centre-divider and into the oncoming truck.

This is a tragedy, but when the fingers are (inevitably) pointed, they will be squarely at the mother who was driving too fast. Too fast for conditions, and far too fast for the conditions when she had her children in the car.

Again, RIP to the little boy.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by you&me


I don't think anyone will be blaming the trucks in the instance. They were driving in the opposite direction; it wasn't until the driver of the pickup truck made a mistake, crossed over the centre-divider and into the oncoming truck.

This is a tragedy, but when the fingers are (inevitably) pointed, they will be squarely at the mother who was driving too fast. Too fast for conditions, and far too fast for the conditions when she had her children in the car.

Again, RIP to the little boy.

I just watched the video and my opinion, is that the guardrail is designed to prevent this sort of thing but what rendered it ineffective was the snow build up essentially creating a launch ramp out of a safety feature. The city should be partially to blame here. 80% of our snow removal budget already spent and a launch ramp on a very major roadway. City hall needs to explain why that happened. This was avoidable had she been going even twice as fast. Yes the mother is to blame for speeding- but the city is to blame for being retards about snow removal which in this case disabled a key safety feature.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Aleks]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


I just watched the video and my opinion, is that the guardrail is designed to prevent this sort of thing but what rendered it ineffective was the snow build up essentially creating a launch ramp out of a safety feature. The city should be partially to blame here. 80% of our snow removal budget already spent and a launch ramp on a very major roadway. City hall needs to explain why that happened. This was avoidable had she been going even twice as fast. Yes the mother is to blame for speeding- but the city is to blame for being retards about snow removal which in this case disabled a key safety feature.

City snow removal budget/policy/setup is a joke. A city that hosted winter olympics gets paralyzed by 5 cm of snow is embarassing. That's a whole different story.

However this collision could have happened in summer too. Saw the video and yes it looks like speed was too high. As a father of 3 myself watching this story almost brought me to tears. RIP little man :(

[codetrap]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
I just watched the video and my opinion, is that the guardrail is designed to prevent this sort of thing but what rendered it ineffective was the snow build up essentially creating a launch ramp out of a safety feature. The city should be partially to blame here. 80% of our snow removal budget already spent and a launch ramp on a very major roadway. City hall needs to explain why that happened. This was avoidable had she been going even twice as fast. Yes the mother is to blame for speeding- but the city is to blame for being retards about snow removal which in this case disabled a key safety feature. I completely disagree. While you're right that the guardrail is supposed to *HELP* prevent this and there was snow packed up against it, at the speed she was going she most likely would have toppled over the rail anyways and just been on her roof. The snow just made it easier. Second, the amount spent on the snow removal budget to date is totally irrelevant. Third, city hall isn't responsible, so the have nothing to explain. Unfortunately, I think the mother was 100% at fault. First and foremost, for driving on tires that were almost done.. there was a good shot of the drivers rear and it was very rounded off with almost no tread left, definitely an all-season. Second, she was obviously driving too fast for conditions.

I do agree that the city shouldn't just plow the snow to the side, but unfortunately there is the real life issue of how to get it off the road? Are we all ok with them shutting down entire stretches of major roadways to get a shovel and a dump truck to pull the snow off?

All that being said, my heart goes out to that mother & their family. She's going to have to live with that for the rest of her life, and I can't imagine what that is going to be like for her.

Edit: Here's a summer view of where the crash took place... based on this layout, I'm betting the truck would have gone over it anyways.

http://www.codetrap.net/binaries/glenmore.jpg

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
All of my snow tires have been mounted on OEM rims :nut:

Same here..

[you&me]

Originally posted by heavyfuel


I just watched the video and my opinion, is that the guardrail is designed to prevent this sort of thing but what rendered it ineffective was the snow build up essentially creating a launch ramp out of a safety feature. The city should be partially to blame here. 80% of our snow removal budget already spent and a launch ramp on a very major roadway. City hall needs to explain why that happened. This was avoidable had she been going even twice as fast. Yes the mother is to blame for speeding- but the city is to blame for being retards about snow removal which in this case disabled a key safety feature.

At the most basic level, this tragedy wouldn't have happened if she wasn't driving too fast and hadn't come up on that other car too quickly.

I agree that the median acted as a ramp. But 99.9% of other drivers avoided using it as a ramp, so I think the focus should be on the actions / mistakes of the driver.

[Mibz]

I love how scat gets a strip torn out of him for suggesting the possibility that winter tires weren't used. Man, once you get a reputation around here....

http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1324596542030_7713053.png

[colinxx235]

The tires definitely look bald/all-season looking on the global site.

Definitely sad to see the child die. Going to be hard for the mother to live with that.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


All of my snow tires have been mounted on OEM rims :nut:

Mine are.


Originally posted by Mibz
I love how scat gets a strip torn out of him for suggesting the possibility that winter tires weren't used. Man, once you get a reputation around here....

http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1324596542030_7713053.png

I don't think he's ripped for suggesting no winter tires.I think he's getting ripped for making the suggestion based on a weird and baseless assumption.

[Z_Fan]

Yeah there is no doubt the driver is at fault here. I'm sure that she did have crap tires on the vehicle, probably all-season junk. [Trivial] At the speed she appeared to be travelling, studded snow tires wouldn't have helped. She was going way way way too fast for the conditions. That video makes that abundantly clear.

However, the snow ramp appears as a major contributing factor to the end result of the accident. I'm sure the lawyers will line up to sue the city - but doesn't matter - none of that is going to bring back the life that was lost.

Having 2 young children myself, I can not imagine losing one of them like this. Drive safe kiddies, and put some fucking winters on!

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


All of my snow tires have been mounted on OEM rims :nut:

werd: I thought that's what the OEM rims are for.

The stock Dodge tires she had on that truck I had on mine last winter and once worn down are just brutal to drive on in the winter. Shame to see this happen. with my second kid on the way it's a solid reminder to slow down even to me..

[Myrrinda]

This is such a tragic story. That poor mother will never forgive herself.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Mibz
I love how scat gets a strip torn out of him for suggesting the possibility that winter tires weren't used. Man, once you get a reputation around here....

Let's requote what snowpussy posted...

Stock rims may indicate an inferior tire.
Please show me where the suggestion is that winter tires weren't used.

His post above is still stands as one of the dumbest things he's ever posted.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mibz]

Originally posted by speedog
Let's requote what snowpussy posted...

Please show me where the suggestion is that winter tires weren't used.

His post above is still stands as one of the dumbest things he's ever posted. Hm. Yeah, you're right.

I suppose me assuming that people are attacking him for no reason is as much part of the problem, haha.

[AndyL]

Sorry but that kind of speed - hitting a jersey barrier at that 30-45° angle in a high clearance vehicle your pretty much going over. Hopping over a jersey isn't the least common thing known to man, theres a bunch of pics in the old tow of the week thread (and many never published floating around my HDD). I recovered vehicles every week sitting on or having cleared over then.

They're pretty good at deflecting cars - but thats because they impact the barrier - trucks especially with these 30-35" stock tires - climb them with ease...

[FraserB]

I don't see any claim against the city having any merit. Cars go up on and over those barriers all the time. Especially there where people get a bit of speed up down the hill.

[frizzlefry]

I'm not an expert but perhaps the child seats were improperly used or defective? There does not seem to be an excessive amount of damage to the cab...

[flipstah]

The odds of her not hitting any cars before going over the barrier was astounding.

[rage2]

Originally posted by frizzlefry
I'm not an expert but perhaps the child seats were improperly used or defective? There does not seem to be an excessive amount of damage to the cab...
It's on the passenger side, which you can't see. Damage must be pretty significant for it to rip the whole truck bed off. Child seats aren't magical devices that protects from hits, it's just plastic. It's just to keep the child from being ejected in an accident, or choked by normal seatbelts designed for adults.

[snowcat]

Originally posted by Mibz
I love how scat gets a strip torn out of him for suggesting the possibility that winter tires weren't used. Man, once you get a reputation around here....


Most people put winter tires onto steal rims. Looking at the age of the truck, and stock rims, like I said, it *MAY* indicate a tire other than winter was being used.

People here can rag all they want, I really don't care. What I said wasn't wild by any means, most people don't use the right equipment during winter and wonder why their cars suck.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by snowcat


Most people put winter tires onto steal rims. Looking at the age of the truck, and stock rims, like I said, it *MAY* indicate a tire other than winter was being used.

People here can rag all they want, I really don't care. What I said wasn't wild by any means, most people don't use the right equipment during winter and wonder why their cars suck. I paid for my rims

[clem24]

Yeah there's a shot that shows the point of impact was basically where the front and rear doors meet by the passenger side, right where the deceased was sitting.

Anywhere else where the video is hosted? The vids on the Global site don't seem to be working.

[speedog]

Originally posted by snowcat


Most people put winter tires onto steal rims. Looking at the age of the truck, and stock rims, like I said, it *MAY* indicate a tire other than winter was being used.

People here can rag all they want, I really don't care. What I said wasn't wild by any means, most people don't use the right equipment during winter and wonder why their cars suck.

What you really said...

Originally posted by snowcat
Stock rims may indicate an inferior tire.

The word "inferior" can mean a lot of things but regardless of that, I think the inference that stock rims may indicate an inferior tire was the biggest blunder posted.

So

Much

Fail.

[Ca_Silvia13]

^I knew what you meant but everyone just started hating on you. Even when a few guys said they saw the bald ass tires in some pictures it pretty much validated your point...

As for the barriers, ive seen cars in the summer jump them so the snow build up shouldn't be the only factor.

[snowcat]

Originally posted by speedog


What you really said...


The word "inferior" can mean a lot of things but regardless of that, I think the inference that stock rims may indicate an inferior tire was the biggest blunder posted.

So

Much

Fail.

Okay there gramps :thumbsup:



Originally posted by Ca_Silvia13
^I knew what you meant but everyone just started hating on you. Even when a few guys said they saw the bald ass tires in some pictures it pretty much validated your point...

Yup. Speed may have been a factor, but so was shitty driving and shitty tires.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by AndyL
Sorry but that kind of speed - hitting a jersey barrier at that 30-45° angle in a high clearance vehicle your pretty much going over. Hopping over a jersey isn't the least common thing known to man, theres a bunch of pics in the old tow of the week thread (and many never published floating around my HDD). I recovered vehicles every week sitting on or having cleared over then.

They're pretty good at deflecting cars - but thats because they impact the barrier - trucks especially with these 30-35" stock tires - climb them with ease...

Might be a good time for the province to consider using an Alberta Barrier in the cities, something twice the height at least. With all the trucks and full sized SUV out there, we really have special needs. At least this might have kept her vehicle on the right side of the road, giving her and her kids decent odds of coming out alive and perhaps with fewer injuries. Many factors (might be a few more behind the scenes as well) were involved in this accident, the brutal thing is, the major reasons were easily preventable.

The traffic flow late this morning along Glenmore was the least aggressive I have ever seen. Everyone doing the posted speed, no one being a dick-head, no tailgaters. Tragedy allows some to use their brains, a shame by the weekend it will all be back to the Calgary norm.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Ca_Silvia13
^I knew what you meant but everyone just started hating on you. Even when a few guys said they saw the bald ass tires in some pictures it pretty much validated your point...

As for the barriers, ive seen cars in the summer jump them so the snow build up shouldn't be the only factor.

So did I, and he arrived at the correct conclusion. Just used a faulty assumption.

But anyways, the moral of the story is that the roads are pretty dicey and the snow banks are fully capable of turning a minor accident into a major nightmare, so let's all be careful out there.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by speedog




So

Much

Fail.



Originally posted by snowcat


Okay there gramps :thumbsup:







Hahaha yup I hope at that age I'm not so caring about online shenanigans. Older and wiser? Speedog is 1 for 2 on that one lol

[01RedDX]

.

[reijo]

Something we teach in the SASC winter schools would have helped. Remember the "Two feet in" ... those of you who took the school (s). If you end up in this out-of-control situation, that is what you have to do. She would never have crossed the median since the truck would have continue straight on it's original path. :(

BTW, her speed was not much different than the car beside her ... but shitty no-season tires on a 2WD truck was definitely a factor. With proper snow tires and, even better, studded ones, she likely would not have been in the skid in the first place ... despite a lack of driving ability.

Sad situation. This is exactly why we have our schools; to prevent this type of occurrence.

R

[FraserB]

So all the people complaining about the city's road clearing have a better solution right? Keep in mind you're trying to clear an 80,000+ vehicle route while it is still snowing. You can't close the road or close lanes during the day to pile snow on the lanes and use loaders. Your budget is limited cost wise and you have to service 15,000+ lane kilometers of road in addition to Glenmore.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by reijo
Something we teach in the SASC winter schools would have helped. Remember the "Two feet in" ... those of you who took the school (s). If you end up in this out-of-control situation, that is what you have to do. She would never have crossed the median since the truck would have continue straight on it's original path. :(

BTW, her speed was not much different than the car beside her ... but shitty no-season tires on a 2WD truck was definitely a factor. With proper snow tires and, even better, studded ones, she likely would not have been in the skid in the first place ... despite a lack of driving ability.

Sad situation. This is exactly why we have our schools; to prevent this type of occurrence.

R

I remembered that and "look at where you want to go, not where you are trying to avoid". I sideswiped a cone looking straight at it, couldn't help. :nut:

[cet]

May not be as efficient but pushing the snow to the outside lanes instead of toward the median probably would have helped.

[max_boost]

So yea? :winter:

[sexualbanana]

They did a massive 3 plow job east of Deerfoot on Glenmore that night at around 1130. It could have been motivated by the accident, but I'm not sure. I've seen them do it in years past

[01RedDX]

.

[Ven]

The City has nothing to do with plowing on Deerfoot. That's a provincial highway and is maintained by a private contractor. Cars and trucks climb jersey walls regardless of snow or not. They'll also go over and through cable barriers, box rail, guard rail and pretty much anything else used to separate traffic. Anything your heart desires is possible for snow removal, but it has to be paid for. This was an accident potentially based on a series of bad decisions, from operator error to tires, or something else entirely. I can't even imagine what this mother is going through. RIP little man and prayers to the family.

[FraserB]

That's the thing though, not having the road down to bare pavement in all spots contributed, sure. But tens of thousands of vehicles made it home safely that night, even after going through the same spot. Pretty safe to say that the driver's negligence was the main driving force behind this collision. You also didn't mention which road those 3-9 plows, loaders and graders will be pulled off to take care of Glenmore. Even if Glenmore was slow (it always is at that time), it would be worse since you'd need a few loaders and trucks to clear the plowed snow from all the on and off-ramps

There has never been excellent snow clearing in Calgary and there won't be the level of clearing that people think happens magically. It all really boils back to money. The snow budget is lower than pretty much every other municipality you'll compare it to. If council were to propose a tax hike to add ten or twenty million to the budget, people would go bonkers. Then they'd go nuts when they have to sit behind a grader or plow.

Personally, I think the best solution is to remove all but the P1 and P2 roads from the plow list. Absolutely no clearing of residential streets unless P1 and P2 are clear. Allow community associations to hire, at their cost, private contractors to do roads located within the community. Increase enforcement of TSA rules in the winter months and have a "winter premium" on top of the tickets. You could probably raise a few million through this alone.

[120Comm]

Put a chain link fence on top of the Armco, like the fence further up at 37 St SW. I suspect it would have slowed the pickup down enough to change the point of impact - if the truck had been able to intrude on the WB lanes at all.

[coachhines]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda....It all comes down to bad decisions by the driver with respect to vehicle care and control. Simple as that. She has, hopefully, learned the hardest way possible. I feel bad that our society has let people like her down by allowing easy access to a license, premium driver education is paramount to safe roads and we just don't have it as a requirement.

[Kona9]

Originally posted by AndyL
Sorry but that kind of speed - hitting a jersey barrier at that 30-45° angle in a high clearance vehicle your pretty much going over. Hopping over a jersey isn't the least common thing known to man, theres a bunch of pics in the old tow of the week thread (and many never published floating around my HDD). I recovered vehicles every week sitting on or having cleared over then.

They're pretty good at deflecting cars - but thats because they impact the barrier - trucks especially with these 30-35" stock tires - climb them with ease...

With all due respect, and I know you are/were an experienced Recovery Driver, but Jersey Barriers aren't in question with this specific incident. I do understand the point you are making, however these W Beam Guardrails are supposed to absorb more impact than that of a Concrete Jersey Barrier, which would be more of a deflector. In this case, and with your point, absolutely a Jersey Barrier would create quite the ramp. I can only imagine that you've seen it a ton. Had the roads been clearer, or cleared in a different manner, then maybe these low guard rails would have done more deflection. That being said, the height of OEM full size trucks outdo these barriers at high speed and poor driving. As you mentioned.

These back to back W Beams show to stand rather low for the speed and amount of traffic on this Road. Jersey Barriers stand just shy of 4 feet. Given the summer picture posted by Codetrap, the height of the Guard Rail just doesn't look sufficient enough in high speed, in any season including winter with snow buildup.

I am not sure how many remember, but there was a similar accident in the dead of summer a few years back where an Explorer went over the same Guard Rail, but further down towards the Automall entrance. The Driver passed away on scene but his younger son lived through it.

The guard rail needs to be higher, and we need better snow maintenance. It's embarrassing for one of Canada's largest cities. An Echelon with even a slower moving Loader at the shoulder with Snow Blower attachment would really clear these main arteries. Other Cities do it. It's BS we can't.

[r3ccOs]

I was stuck right behind the accident with all the EMS responders rushing past me.

A friend of mine saw the accident unfold on the eastbound lane in front of me and was adamant that he had saw the lady speeding excessively right before everything unfolded a few block lengths ahead of him.

RIP to the kid... would hate the be the family, especially at this time of the year, and that the mother escaped with minor injuries.

there definitely are contributing factors, but the snow, the design of the barriers, the vehicle type are probably far from root cause as compared to the rate of speed she was travelling at.

Trucks without good tires can be quite dangerous, especially once they get out of control. Weight distribution is an issue and nobody ever seems to put winter tires on their trucks, nor sand bags over their rear axle.

"a full tank of gas is more than enough weight"

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by flipstah
The odds of her not hitting any cars before going over the barrier was astounding.

Funny thing is... Maybe hitting another vehicle before going over the barrier would have prevented the truck from going over....

[Toma]

Originally posted by speedog


What you really said...


The word "inferior" can mean a lot of things but regardless of that, I think the inference that stock rims may indicate an inferior tire was the biggest blunder posted.

So

Much

Fail.

Good grief. You need everything spelled out for you?

Winter weather. Accident. Inferior tires.... duh. He wasnt talking that she should have been running p-zeros.

Jezus christ on a popsicle stick.

Let me decipher for you. Within this context, inferior was used to mean 'not upto par for the conditions that are relevant to the discussion'

[snowcat]

Originally posted by Toma


You are a moron. You need everything spelled out for you?

Winter weather. Accident. Inferior tires.... duh. He wasnt talking that she should have been running p-zeros.

Jezus christ on a popsicle stick.

http://i.imgur.com/t2anZUH.jpg

[Toma]

My apologies for being needlessly rude.

Sorry.

[01RedDX]

.

[revelations]

Originally posted by 120Comm
Put a chain link fence on top of the Armco, like the fence further up at 37 St SW. I suspect it would have slowed the pickup down enough to change the point of impact - if the truck had been able to intrude on the WB lanes at all.

No, sorry. I dont support my tax money going for this. People simply have to learn to not drive like retards.

[finboy]

Originally posted by snowcat


http://i.imgur.com/t2anZUH.jpg

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[KRyn]

Originally posted by snowcat


http://i.imgur.com/t2anZUH.jpg


Holy fuck, I just about lost a mouthful of coffee on my keyboard.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by snowcat


http://i.imgur.com/t2anZUH.jpg

LOL..that is pretty good :D

[Kijho]

:clap:

[busdepot]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess


Might be a good time for the province to consider using an Alberta Barrier in the cities, something twice the height at least. With all the trucks and full sized SUV out there, we really have special needs. At least this might have kept her vehicle on the right side of the road, giving her and her kids decent odds of coming out alive and perhaps with fewer injuries. Many factors (might be a few more behind the scenes as well) were involved in this accident, the brutal thing is, the major reasons were easily preventable.

The traffic flow late this morning along Glenmore was the least aggressive I have ever seen. Everyone doing the posted speed, no one being a dick-head, no tailgaters. Tragedy allows some to use their brains, a shame by the weekend it will all be back to the Calgary norm.

The barriers would also keep traffic moving so people aren't fucking staring and rubbernecking making more accidents. Agreed.

Why was I also not surprised to see that it was Dodge pickup? While the situation is no doubt tragic, and was 100% avoidable through a number of reasons, there's something to be said about pick-up drivers thinking they're somehow magically immune to winter conditions. I can't count how many pickups (and notably Dodge's) that I have seen bomb past me only to end up in the ditch later on.

Before all the white knights come out, this is a generalization and doesn't apply to every single pick up driver. This is just a notable correlation to Dodge pickup drivers and asshattery. That poor mother now has to live with that weight on her shoulders for the rest of her life.

[rage2]

Originally posted by busdepot
there's something to be said about pick-up drivers thinking they're somehow magically immune to winter conditions.
It's interesting to note that many truck owners do not realize that trucks have a terrible F/R weight distribution. They tend to oversteer very easily, even with AWD. Doesn't take much to get trucks to spin.

[bcylau]

I am not sure what the stats are, but if she was the only driver to cross the median there then its probably driver error / mechancial error.

if its common, then probably road design/ conditions is at fault.

And it doesnt seem like people are jumping over that median daily, so............

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by rage2
It's interesting to note that many truck owners do not realize that trucks have a terrible F/R weight distribution. They tend to oversteer very easily, even with AWD. Doesn't take much to get trucks to spin.


:werd: I just about spun out my brother's frontier on macleod (equipped with :winter: ) as I was ignorant to this fact. Part of the reason I try and stay away from trucks especially in the winter. Over confidence combined with 4000+ lbs curb weight and high ride height = death machine on wheels potentially.

[AndyL]

The jersey barriers do their job - they do keep traffic mostly separated - how many dozens of accidents a week are on that stretch... 2 in memory got into the other directions lanes...

There is a Ontario designed version that's taller (current are 30"? +/-),the Ontario style being 46" - but at radically higher cost - and still wouldnt have stopped this. barriers are designed for glancing blows - not full on perpendicular hits... Roads are designed to accommodate the 99 percentile - not every possible variation.

Sometimes bad things happen - we can't engineer our way to safety...

Engineering today is a race between engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof systems, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

[Toma]

Trucks are a double edged sword. The extra weight and usual m+s tired are much better in snow. The extra weight is like built in sand bags. But get them sliding and thats a whole other world of trouble.

[r3ccOs]

I agree and disagree...

trucks at a minimum have one live rear axle and none are "AWD".
this means they can articulate more, can tow more but also means they are subject to being affected by the other wheel on the other side of the axle.
Double edge sword.. better offroad than on a bumpy paved road
4x4 means both axles are locked at equal speed and torque distribution. This is goodness, especially when travelling in a straight line and the 4 wheel low optimizes your torque by doubling it via gear reduction.

but a locked part-time system = only limited amount of conditions you can run it locked in, for a limited time and a limited amount of speed.

You sure as hell can be one of those rig pigs who drive up to the Mac in 4x4 locked at 160km/h, but if you don't die, you'll be forking up huge cash to repair your transfer case, and complaining that your Dodge isn't reliable.

they have more clearance, which ultimately means less chance of high centering and the ability to get through "more" obsticles
but this also means higher center of gravity

better tires? Typically truck tires are better than passenger rated all seasons.
Most people run basic truck tires however OR worse, Mud Terrains, cause they like the look.
Many people I know say, I have 4x4, why would I need winters, they're just going to burn out.

weight? They do weigh more, but they also run wider tires with stiffer sidewalls.
So its all relative, and I've seen "smart" jacked up trucks run stock size winter tires in the winter, because they know that the stock size is optimum for the weight to maintain the best contact patch.
Skinnier tires do work better in packed snow/ice, whereas wider work perfect off-road for flotation.

Now, weight... if a truck weights 4500lbs, where do you think most of that weight is?
Its in the front end, its in the engine, the transfer case, the transmission. The rear end is frame, leaf, gas tank and metal box. I'd be willing to bet the stock weight distribution is closer to 70/30.

If you are driving a truck in 4x4, with no weight over the rear end with non-winter tires at full tilt, recovering from an unexpected slide, oversteer/understeer is truly a feat of skill

[frizzlefry]

I have seen more trucks tailing out or sliding than cars this year for sure. This is the first year I decided to buy winters. Those combined with quattro and ESP has been amazing. I have not lost traction once. I actually enjoy driving when it's shitty out.

I avoid being near trucks in winter. Not only do they suck in ice/snow but their drivers seem to think the exact opposite and are more likely to drive like asswipes.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by r3ccOs
I agree and disagree...

trucks at a minimum have one live rear axle and none are "AWD".


I had an 05 or 06 (can't remember) ram 1500 Laramie that was awd so that's definitely not true.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by ddduke


I had an 05 or 06 (can't remember) ram 1500 Laramie that was awd so that's definitely not true.

Yup... was very close to buying one that was AWD. '05 Ram 1500 Laramie.

[coachhines]

Every Denali truck since 2001 has been AWD. Every 4wd gm truck since 1999 has had "auto 4wd" as a selection. 2007+ ones work awesome. Every Escalade and Denali SUV has AWD since 2001 as well.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by coachhines
Every Denali truck since 2001 has been AWD. Every 4wd gm truck since 1999 has had "auto 4wd" as a selection. 2007+ ones work awesome. Every Escalade and Denali SUV has AWD since 2001 as well.

this would make sense as the Escalades/Tahoes/Suburbans have full time 4x4 using a viscus center coupler (like the Jeep Cherokees)

I'd rather be driving one of those in these conditions than the equivalent truck

[coachhines]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


this would make sense as the Escalades/Tahoes/Suburbans have full time 4x4 using a viscus center coupler (like the Jeep Cherokees)

I'd rather be driving one of those in these conditions than the equivalent truck If it's a selectable system then no viscous coupler, auto 4wd notices slipping in the rear and engages the 4wd system. The newer trucks have a better system than the 06 and earlier versions. I'd rather the selectable as both engage similarly, but either work well and the AWD is just dummy proof.

[Unknown303]

People that drive trucks should understand how they handle in these poor road conditions.

[bart]

do trucks have esp?

[speedog]

Originally posted by bart
do trucks have esp?

Depends on the person operating them. :D

[Unknown303]

New trucks usually have some form of it.

The Ram she was driving definitely had ESC and ERM.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by bart
do trucks have esp?

At that speed and condition, ESP would be rendered almost useless.

[GoChris]

In situations like this, does the driver get charged? Some of the time, all, none?

[Willie Bobo]

Originally posted by GoChris
In situations like this, does the driver get charged? Some of the time, all, none?

Do you really not know the answer to this?





Anyway, I would imagine the officers on scene would show some discretion and realize charging a mother who just lost a child due to her own actions would be callous and completely unnecessary.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by GoChris
In situations like this, does the driver get charged? Some of the time, all, none?

Charges are pointless.

She'll be in her own prison for the rest of her life and chances are you'll never see her behind the wheel of a vehicle.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Willie Bobo


Do you really not know the answer to this?





Anyway, I would imagine the officers on scene would show some discretion and realize charging a mother who just lost a child due to her own actions would be callous and completely unnecessary.

we can all be sympathetic, but to me, rules are rules.

If anyone watched the dash-cam or talked to anyone who witnessed the incident... This was the result of very partial circumstances, and mostly poor decision making.

Chances are, yes... if the snow wasn't piled up by the barrier, and "if" she didn't hit an inanimate object, if the infant was older, AND AND AND...

She was driving at reckless speeds, taking it what appears no consideration of the road conditions, let alone her own safety and those of her occupants.

So... what "if" the occupant who died was not her child, but a friend instead?

What if she didn't run into a Semi (who was travelling at probably 20km/h) and ran into a passenger vehicle full of occupants instead of a commercial one?

We would probably be looking at the entire situation where she would be criminalized rather than how she is gaining sympathy as a victim.

Its hard to look objectively, but that is what needs to be done, and she also should face whatever "legal" ramifications that she needs to be accountable for.

My condolences to her family and may her child RIP, but I do not support "letting her off the hook" and contributing to a trust fund that will help with paying for a Criminal lawyer.

[Mibz]

If a parent leaves a child alone in a room with a loaded gun and the child kills itself I'm pretty sure the parent gets charged with something, despite losing their child. I don't see why this would be any different.

Is it necessary? Who are we to know? I'm sure a judge would hear from her and make a more educated decision than we can on here. If the Cops charged her then they're doing their job.