Water softner?

[eblend]

Hey guys,

Thinking of getting a water softner...is there anything special I need to know about them?

Been looking at this one at Home Depot
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge-large-capacity-30000-grain-water-softener/977694

Please teach me on water softners as I want to buy one for my parents place as well and want to make sure I don't buy some crap when something better is available.

Thanks!

[killramos]

Everything I have ever heard says go with Kinetico, if you don't want to drop the coin for it then don't bother getting one.

Looking into having one installed in the New year hopefully.

[r3ccOs]

its not like one softener is better than another.

Kinetico basically uses 2 small tanks instead of one, so you have one regenerating while the other is in use, and doesn't use an electronic flow meter.

Personally I like my kenmore, but Costco has a 40,000 grain one that they sell for I think $450 with the whole kit.

they are very easy to install, as long as you have pex pipes

[ganesh]

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/310867/water-softeners-suggestions/

I went with Aquamaster Pro and I am really happy with it. No issues at all.
Like said before it is easy to install. Pex or not it is not an issue any more. You can use Shark Bite,
http://www.sharkbite.com

When I got mine I called around to get a quote for the installation people were quoting me $700 for the install. I did mine and it costed me less than $100.

[The_Rural_Juror]

No problems with my kinetico.

One question though. What am I supposed to do fornmaintenance?

[black_2.5RS]

I bought a Fleck water softener from Aquatell.ca. Much cheaper than anywhere I could find and had a local plumber do the install for me. Shipping is free too. There's a few threads on here that talk about Fleck vs. Kinetico. I'm not going to get into that bun fight. I'm happy w/ my purchase and that's all that matters to me.

Just another option for you to consider.

[r3ccOs]

all softeners have the same maintenance - you put in Salt

the only difference is the elctric flow meter, which gives you a bit more control over the process and that you will not have "soft water" available for the hour it recharges that one morning you decide to do it.

I have mine set for 18 grains of hardness and its been re-generating every 5-7 days (I set 7 days max before it auto-does it)

you want to buy a softener to size for the number of people in your household, based on total gallons of water consumed based on a average of roughly 17-18 grains (typical south Calgary hardness) so it re-generates once a week.

for me, that's roughly 40,000.

I had a bud who thought bigger was better for the size of his house, and bought a massive 58000 softener, and he's had some issues as it was just for his wife and him.

[blitz]

Originally posted by killramos
Everything I have ever heard says go with Kinetico, if you don't want to drop the coin for it then don't bother getting one.

Looking into having one installed in the New year hopefully.

It mixes salt with water, it's not rocket science.

I bought a Costco one for $450, and it works awesome :thumbsup:

[eblend]

Wow thanks for the info guys.

What is the costco $450 dollar one, this thing?

http://www.costco.ca/Vitapur%C2%AE-Whole-Home-Water-Softener-29%2c000-Grain-Capacity-.product.100055718.html

$450 sounds pretty cheap and tempting if they more or less do the same thing.

[benyl]

They are talking about this one:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/kinetico-sale-on-right-now-at-trail/showthread.php?s=&postid=4000254&highlight=costco#post4000254

Haven't seen it in store lately.

[blitz]

This is the one that was offered in store for $450. It's more expensive on the website due to shipping:

http://www.costco.ca/.product.10369442.html?cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-itempageVerticalRight-_-MultiItemViewCP&cm_vc=itempageVerticalRight%7CMultiItemViewCP

[TomcoPDR]

What's the benefit of water softener? For those that have them, notice difference?

[revelations]

^ I was always under the impression that a whole-house water filter would be a better choice.... but thats from living on the west coast mind you, not like the lime and calcium water we have here.

[eblend]

Cool thanks I will drop by costco and take a look what they have in store.

[eblend]

With softened water, can I do the following:

Water plants?

Wash rice or vegetables?


I can easily convert my fridge drinking water to be on non-softened water, but the kitchen faucet would be very complicated (tear down ceiling in basement)

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
What's the benefit of water softener? For those that have them, notice difference? Yes. No calcium buildup anywhere in the house. My dry skin in winter is an issue of the past. Clothes feel softer. Anything that uses soap runs better and rinses cleaner. No more soap scum buildup in the shower.. or at least not nearly as often.




Originally posted by eblend
With softened water, can I do the following:

Water plants?

Wash rice or vegetables?


I can easily convert my fridge drinking water to be on non-softened water, but the kitchen faucet would be very complicated (tear down ceiling in basement) Yes. Yes. Why bother? Softened water is just fine. If you're concerned about it use potassium instead of sodium. I personally prefer the potassium as I can use it to water the lawn. Greenest healthiest lawn on the block. :) Also, it's really nice to wash the vehicles with as there's no hard water spotting on the glass.

[r3ccOs]

whole house filters can't filter out hardness thats dissolved into the water.

Water is a solvent, but if its fully of minerals it has less ability to absorb and effective for things like Soap and can leave deposits behind, like calcium.

To make water efficient again, you run your water through tanks that contain resin beads that are "charged" and pull these mineral grains out of the water, making it soft again.

The beads have a "capacity" which is why they are rated for whatever "grains", that then is appropriately sized for the hardness of our water, and its usage.

You want to size your softener to recharge these beads about once a week, otherwise you risk damaging them (mostly due to lack of use).

Whether u use salt or potassium salts, its really the same...
Its not the Salt that softens your water, its the beads that do. The salt brine cleans out the beads.

There are no issues with drinking "softened" water, as they say that a days worth of water consumption has about the same amount of salt as a piece of white bread, and some people prefer it, as it makes better tea's coffee's and juices.

Also there is no risk to your lawn, but you are using up your softener's capacity by running your outdoor lines through it.

Water here in Calgary though, is very tasty, so I'd recommend a bypass for your cold line to the kitchen tap (but not the hot water line, especially to your dishwasher).

there are some conflicting articles regarding the health benefits of consuming distilled/soft water vs. hard mineralized water.

[eblend]

Cool thanks for the info. I went around toa few costco and none of the carry them in store anymore it seems. I asked about them and they said they don't have the room to stock them andi can order online. How is the $470 unit at costco? (Link I posted earlier) Reading the details on it is there anything that looks like it would not be a good decision?

[Proyecto2000]

Originally posted by eblend
Cool thanks for the info. I went around toa few costco and none of the carry them in store anymore it seems. I asked about them and they said they don't have the room to stock them andi can order online. How is the $470 unit at costco? (Link I posted earlier) Reading the details on it is there anything that looks like it would not be a good decision? ]

I bought the unit from Costco 3 months ago but I haven't got around to installing it yet. :(

[eblend]

Originally posted by Proyecto2000
]

I bought the unit from Costco 3 months ago but I haven't got around to installing it yet. :(

Did you buy online? Curious as the lady made reference to the fact that some stores may have them in the store but was having trouble finding any info.

[Proyecto2000]

Originally posted by eblend


Did you buy online? Curious as the lady made reference to the fact that some stores may have them in the store but was having trouble finding any info.

I bought mine at the Costco by Cross Iron mills. They bring them into the store twice a year. I have been seeing them for 3 years now (Sunridge and Cross Iron Mills) and I am at Costco twice a month so I will post when I see them in stock.

[CRXguy]

Does someone here want to do a home install? I have a Kenmore unit.

[Quickstrike]

Our Fleck water softener bought from Aquatell has been running well for the past year or so.

The thing is incredibly loud when 'recharging'. If you are a light sleeper / live in a small living space, you might want to look at something different. Fortunately, it is in the basement utility room and I sleep on the 2nd floor.
The odd night I happen to fall asleep on the couch downstairs when it is set to run - watch out.. :eek:

[roopi]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror
No problems with my kinetico.

One question though. What am I supposed to do fornmaintenance?



1. Add salt

2. Change the filter once a year.

[ronaldo]

What is Calgary's water hardness level? I've set my Whirlpool Softener on 12 but not sure if that's correct or not. The lady from 311 wasn't much help

[yellowsnow]

Originally posted by ronaldo
What is Calgary's water hardness level? I've set my Whirlpool Softener on 12 but not sure if that's correct or not. The lady from 311 wasn't much help

http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/Water/Pages/Drinking-water/Water-quality/Water-Hardness-FAQ.aspx

First hit when I googled "Calgary water hardness" ;)

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by killramos
Everything I have ever heard says go with Kinetico, if you don't want to drop the coin for it then don't bother getting one.



:rofl:

Fucking people.

Get a street legal F1 car or its not worth driving.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


:rofl:

Fucking people.

Get a street legal F1 car or its not worth driving.

its amazing...

Softeners have been around for ages... serve a genuine purpose to ensure that water does what its supposed to.

Kinetico just found a cleaver way to use 2 smaller thanks instead of one, using a meter that switches one to the other.

In actuality, the only real difference is, for "2 hours" once a week, in the middle of a night, you may get hard water into your system. A little bit of hard water for that maybe 1 gallon of water you flush cause your prostate woke you up to take a pee.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by yellowsnow


http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/Water/Pages/Drinking-water/Water-quality/Water-Hardness-FAQ.aspx

First hit when I googled "Calgary water hardness" ;)

to me... because it can spike upwards in the winter months, to cover my bases, and to ensure that the tank gets a brine wash once a week, I set it to 18.

[benyl]

Yeah, mine is set to 16 or 18.

I think I regenerate every 1200 gallons or so. I've only ever heard my fleck once, but I was already awake at 2am.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[Unknown303]

Don't you splice it in on the cold side of the tank?

[BigDL]

Originally posted by Unknown303
Don't you splice it in on the cold side of the tank?

He want's it for his hot water tank, that picture shows the cold water intake side.

If you find a place for a good price please post up a review after you get it done. I want to get one done for my place.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Unknown303]

Man that would be sweet if that was my user name.

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This is phase 1 of my plan:
Later on when I initiate phase 2, I am going to put a second water softener on the cold water that uses potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride. I just cleaned my AMP51 for the first time in umm. 3 years? It wasn't hard. (get it? hard? lol) Anyways, it really wasn't too bad. Had a bit of hard salt in the bottom, just broke it up with a screwdriver in 10 minutes, scooped it out, rinsed the whole thing out and then hooked it back up. Filled it with potassium and it's good to go.

I spliced into the primary cold water feed for the house. I did create a bypass for the outside taps, but I don't really care if I'm drinking softened water. No ill health effects have been reported that I know about for the minor increase in potassium for the amount of water from the tap that I drink.

[Sugarphreak]

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[LOLzilla]

Pete installed a water softener at the parents place. Clean install, with bypass and a years worth of salt for $1100~. Yes, it's s metered system.

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I've read that potassium is a better whole home option than sodium simply because your body often doesn't get enough potassium while conversely we all pretty much exceed our recommended sodium intake.

Both offer reduction in soap scum, better showering and cleaning and are better for your appliances, but in the reading I have been doing there are differences between the two.

Potassium is supposed to be better for plants, and also better for laundry than water softened sodium chloride.

On the flip side, Sodium has much better cost and availability, and is also supposed to be better for skin conditions. I like the potassium better than the sodium personally. I can taste the difference in the water, or at least I think I can. I didn't notice any difference between the sodium to the potassium for my excema.

[benyl]

Potassium is 4x the cost.

I went with fleck from aqua tell, but I have a by pass for the kitchen and outside taps.

Let me know if you want help.

[blitz]

You could have it rigged up with a cold water bypass, so you can choose to run the cold water through it until you added the Potassium system.

[Sugarphreak]

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[benyl]

just rent the crimping tool, don't buy it.

Canyon plumbing used plastic connectors with metal rings. When I went to Rona / Home depot, you can only get brass connectors.

I think that there was $20-$30 in parts that I needed including new pipe.

I do notice that my black kitchen sinks need a bit of a scrub now and then because of the hard cold water. The Veggie sink more than the wash sink.

In our shower, because both are soft, we don't get any hard water build up or soap scum. There is just a bit of "hazing" from residual soap. If you run the water over it long enough (re direct the shower head) it washes away. It is pretty awesome for keeping the glass shower enclosure clean.

Last house didn't have a softner. Glass had which build-up everywhere.

[BigDL]

I been drinking softened water for 7 years now at work. It is really hard well water that is filtered by a pretty good water system and it is my fave water to drink taste wise.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by benyl
Potassium is 4x the cost.
It is, and it isn't. I've had really good luck getting Home depot to mark the ripped bags off by 50%. Most of them have lost maybe 10% of the salt in them, but nobody will usually buy them and the staff end up having to clean it up, so they're willing to cut you a deal.



Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Did you do yours on your own? What kind of PEX connectors did you use?

I was looking into how much a crimping tool and some connectors would cost, but there is some cheaper options which use bands or just push in connectors too.


I could do that for sure, and I might if I feel ambitious enough, haha.

Still not 100% sure if I am going to put one on the cold water at this point, depends on how much of a noticeable impact the hot water has Just call me and I'll lend you my crimping tool. :) I got tired of paying to rent, so I finally bought one that can do all the sizes of pex.


Originally posted by benyl
It is pretty awesome for keeping the glass shower enclosure clean.

Last house didn't have a softner. Glass had which build-up everywhere. Wax the glass. I used that spray on wax after I washed it really well, and I haven't even had the buildup on it. Just reapply the spray once every couple of months and it's good to go.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[benyl]

you can use a utility knife to cut pex.

call home depot, they should have the crimper.

[Sugarphreak]

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[blitz]

I set mine up with both a bypass and shut off valves, so the unit can be removed without draining the water lines of the house. This way too you can do all the work beforehand and then just drop it in.

Not sure about a 1" crimper, I maxed out at 3/4" in my house.

[Sugarphreak]

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[blitz]

Mine has a bypass valve too, but I think for the extra few dollars in fittings, being able to completely remove the system and still have water is a good thing.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Skidro]

You never know till you try!!

[Sugarphreak]

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[Unknown303]

Hmm. I need one of those.

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

Hmm.. I never saw a PM for my crimper kit. :P

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

I have a multi size kit. :)

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Do you have 1"?

I ended up just ordering one off Amazon

When I say I have the multi-size kit.. you should just believe me. :)

http://www.codetrap.net/binaries/IMG_1578.JPG

[Sugarphreak]

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[benyl]

Talk about overkill. haha

It isn't open heart surgery. Just do it.

[Milk2%]

Kinetico or bust.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[cyra1ax]

For anyone looking for a unit, Costco NW has the Premier whole home water softener (http://www.costco.ca/Premier-40,000-grain-High-Capacity-Water-Softening-System.product.10369442.html) for $499.

[blitz]

Originally posted by cyra1ax
For anyone looking for a unit, Costco NW has the Premier whole home water softener (http://www.costco.ca/Premier-40,000-grain-High-Capacity-Water-Softening-System.product.10369442.html) for $499.

I've had this one for a year or two, it's been great!

[SoSlowDx]

Originally posted by blitz


I've had this one for a year or two, it's been great!

How difficult is it to install this particular Costco one? Plus we went with a waterless tank when we built. I am not good with installing/fixing things at all. So maybe pay a bit more and get it done right the first time.

As I was exiting Costco, I picked up one of the brochures to have them come to your home and give you a quote. Has anyone tried this?

Or purchase one at Costco and hire someone. I don't trust myself and neither does the wife
:banghead:

Thanks!

[eblend]

I just bought that particular Cosco 40,000 grain unit on the weekend, they have them in stock at deerfoot meadows costco for $429, much cheaper than the online price as there is no shipping involved. Codetrap, I might hit you up to borrow your PEX climper. I have one but it's a 1/2 and 3/4 only.

Where does one locally find 1" PEX stuff? I noticed the water softner I bought uses 1"

[Sugarphreak]

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[r3ccOs]

I'm pretty sure I used a 1" pex crimper from Home Depot south, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Bypass is nice, as you want to bypass your outdoor faucets for sure.

anyways real men just crip using their hands.

you should see how mangled my penis is

[blitz]

Originally posted by eblend
Where does one locally find 1" PEX stuff? I noticed the water softner I bought uses 1"

Only use 1" if the rest of the lines in your house are 1". No point in stepping up from 3/4" to 1" and then back to 3/4" after the softener.

[eblend]

Originally posted by blitz


Only use 1" if the rest of the lines in your house are 1". No point in stepping up from 3/4" to 1" and then back to 3/4" after the softener.

Yah I have to double check, I think the rest of my house is 3/4 so I may just end up using 3/4 stuff as I can pickup everything at home depot easily, and have the crimper already.

[r3ccOs]

if you bought kenetico, you wouldn't have to do anything.

just bring it home.

[Sugarphreak]

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[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Yep, all that is required is for you to bend over!

;)

but Trail does such a good job of marketing those things...

2 small tanks vs 1 big tank = 400% the price

how clever

[Sugarphreak]

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[eblend]

So the system I bought uses these special connectors that are one inch threaded on one side. I need to attach these to 3/4 inch pex. What's the best way of doing this?

I am thinking something like this?
http://www.ccallis.com/onlinestore/_photos/quickporttopex.jpg

[Sugarphreak]

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[eblend]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Is it plastic? Because the connection from metal to plastic is a serious bitch, especially with larger water lines... you are supposed to go metal>brass>plastic.... which I did, but it still leaked. I tried teflon, pipe dope, various tightness... stupid thing persistently dripped water out.

I ended up going this route, which has proven to be been bullet proof.

Male Pex connector > Female double ended plastic coupler > Male plastic water softener

Then coated the threads with ABS cement

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb256/Sugarphreak/Public%20Albums/Beyond/PEX_CONNECTION_zps5ae87bae.jpg


Sweet cool thanks for the pic, your attachment points look just like mine so its a good visual.

[Sugarphreak]

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[blitz]

This was my retrofit with metal, my plastic to metal conversion didn't leak with plumbers tape, I think they were 1" NPT?

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/s720x720/427967_10152755265215790_333438902_n.jpg

[Sugarphreak]

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[eblend]

Anyone know where one could find this locally, or hell even online that would ship to Canada?

Seems like it is designed for exactly this purpose, but seems to be a hard find

http://www.sharkbite.com/product/water-softener-fittings/

[eblend]

Seems like Home Depot (USA) sells these things which are much of the same but on a flex hose which is probably even better..

http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/203800359

Time to check when my boss is heading back to the states...her family is in Kalispel and they have a Home Depot there...

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by eblend
Anyone know where one could find this locally, or hell even online that would ship to Canada?

Seems like it is designed for exactly this purpose, but seems to be a hard find

http://www.sharkbite.com/product/water-softener-fittings/

Plumbateria is my go-to place for plumbing stuff. I know they have some Sharkbite products. Worth a try.

[yellowsnow]

Does anyone have experience with one of those salt-less water softeners? My builder installed one in my home already. I'm debating whether to take it out and replace it with a normal water softener. i've always had a soft water system

so far from my research, it doesn't really 'soften' the water, but prevents hard minerals from adhering to surfaces.

[benyl]

My research suggests it doesn't do shit.

Get a softner. Your skin and clothes will thank you.

[ExtraSlow]

Is that the one with magnets? That doesn't do shit.

[yellowsnow]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Is that the one with magnets? That doesn't do shit.

no, not magnets.. i actually have no idea how it works, but there are no electrodes or electricity going to the unit. it's sort of like a cannister that is attached to the main water line.

[Sugarphreak]

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[jwslam]

De-rail: Is there a guy any of you can recommend to service one of these things?
The home I'm taking posession of has a water softner but it was unplugged when we found it during the home inspection. The homeowners say they have never used the thing so I'm thinking there's a beast to tame.

[Sugarphreak]

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[jwslam]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
How old is it? If the plumbing is already in place you may want to consider just grabbing the Costco one.
Hmm. No clue how old it is. Nor did I look to see if it's plumbed.
I don't have a costco membership :cry: :cry: :cry:

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Mine was 1" NPT, I was having no luck at all with it. It would seem fine... then when I went to check on it after an hour it would be just starting to drip.

Eblend, not a bad idea to try it with plumbers tape first... if it doesn't leak just keep a very close eye on it for a few days. ABS cement is a pretty permanent solution. I thought about the ABS, but I just put a little bit of plumbers putty in the threads instead. That way I could pull it out to fully clean it all.