How and Why Motorcycle Lane Splitting is Safe and Good

[Supa Dexta]

JNGD9AAIfFU#t=214

[Kloubek]

I think Scat will use this video as the equivalent of porn.

[Tik-Tok]

I stopped watching after blondie said a motorcycle doing 20mph over a cars speed is "safer and more responsible".

[Mista Bob]

There is a reason why lane splitting is an accepted practice in the entire world..... just not in North America (aside from California).

There is literally no reason to not have legal lane splitting.
The only reason it is illegal here is because North America is the most anti-motorcycle place in the world.
In NA no one views motorcycles as transportation, they view them as 'dangerous toys'.

Everyone benefits from lane splitting.

[Supa Dexta]

Why? it is safer in some respects and is more responsible in terms of traffic congestion and the environment. :dunno:

[Mista Bob]

But motorcycles look scurry, we should bans them.

[lilmira]

Is it really legal to do so outside of NA? Or is it just loosely enforced? Of course it can be done safely in slow moving traffic, same as jaywalking, also not strictly enforced in a lot of places lol.

[Unknown303]

Someone should tweet that to Nenshi. :rofl: Although it will never solve anything. We tailor to those damn truck and SUV drivers here. :devil:

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I stopped watching after blondie said a motorcycle doing 20mph over a cars speed is "safer and more responsible".
+1

The only thing they discuss is how they don't get rear ended, and so it is safer, and that because it was how they were taught, it is ok to flaunt the law. I love how he brags about a stack of traffic violations in new york.

FACEPALM!

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by lilmira
Of course it can be done safely in slow moving traffic,

That's exactly it. Sure, go ahead and lane split at a red light to get to the front, it's definitely safer for a responsible rider.
Doing it in 30mph traffic though? (when he says doing 15-20mph ABOVE a cars speed is "safer").

[Dave P]

AwyZlXo1zbQ

[pheoxs]

Lane splitting in stopped traffic (or <5mph) I think is perfectly acceptable. Nothing is moving so it's not dangerous and it doesn't slow anyone down.

Lane splitting while traffic is moving is just stupid. Especially when you see idiots doing it at highway speeds doing ~130 between cars because they don't want to wait the 30 seconds to properly pass. Fuck them.

Rode my bike for many years and yes I split some lanes when traffic was stopped due to accidents or construction but never on the henday or highway 2. Actually never above ~20km/hr I didn't see a point. So long as traffic is moving you can pass legally and safer so whats the point.

[roll_over]

gOMQY6k16TU

[rage2]

Originally posted by Unknown303
Someone should tweet that to Nenshi. :rofl: Although it will never solve anything. We tailor to those damn truck and SUV drivers here. :devil:
Our traffic laws are provincial.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by lilmira
Is it really legal to do so outside of NA? Or is it just loosely enforced? Of course it can be done safely in slow moving traffic, same as jaywalking, also not strictly enforced in a lot of places lol.

Depends where, but the vast majority of places it is completely legal.
Some places will have differing restrictions on it but still have it legal.
Some places there may be restrictions on it, but they are never enforced (Thailand, large cc bikes are not allowed to lane split anymore.... not enforced).
And in others (Australia) it was made illegal, but everyone still does it and it is never enforced.
They tried to make it illegal in France, riders protested by not lane splitting and filling up public transit.
http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/4086/french-federation-of-angry-bikers-protest-against-lane-splitting-ban
Made them re-consider their decision on banning it.

In California it is only legal by a technicality in the law but I can't remember what it was exactly.
Not 100% if it allows people to lane split on highways at speed, but everyone does it anyways and I don't think it is enforced.

North America is literally the most backwards place in the world when it comes to motorcycle laws.
Anyone can buy a 1000cc super bike for their first bike, super easy license test anyone can pass. The rest of the world, it is not like this for the most part.
And of course.... lane splitting is illegal.

Hell even for automobile licensing NA is ass backwards, anyone with a pulse can get one.
In the UK for example, you actually have to go through a very tough license test to get one, along with required driver training before hand.
There are literally tons of people over there who have tried dozens of times to get a license and likely never will. . . . the way it should be.

[snowcat]

Lane splitting to the front of a red light is safe and should be allowed.

Bikes are only seasonal here, I wouldn't trust other drivers always looking for the bikes.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by rage2

Our traffic laws are provincial.

I just thought Super Nenshi could solve any problem.

[Sentry]

I'm ok with bikes lane splitting. If I were on a bike I would be hesitant to do it due to idiot drivers though.

[ddduke]

I do it every morning and it cuts at least 20 mins off my deerfoot commute. People in Calgary are fucked though, you get cars swerving into you, doors opening and endless honking. I usually go 30-50km/hr faster then the flow of traffic (gridlock) because that way most people don't notice you until it's too late and all you get is a honk instead of going 10 and having every 5th car try to hit you/box you out.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by ddduke
I do it every morning and it cuts at least 20 mins off my deerfoot commute. People in Calgary are fucked though, you get cars swerving into you, doors opening and endless honking. I usually go 30-50km/hr faster then the flow of traffic (gridlock) because that way most people don't notice you until it's too late and all you get is a honk instead of going 10 and having every 5th car try to hit you/box you out. This is why I don't do it. That, and I really don't need the demerits on my license.

[civic_stylez]

Im all for it at red lights... bike should be allowed to pull up to the front between cars. No point in backing traffic up further. Id be weary to lane split in Calgary but in places like California where its a daily thing, and drivers are looking for you.

[black13]

Damn I would love to see this become legal here. Mostly just cause it would help with congestion. Once people see that you can beat traffic by being on a bike I'm sure more people would ride. And it would be impossible to drive distracted on a bike so there's that as well.

[Darkane]

Bikes split traffic all the time in Greece. Always to the front of the light.

Cops didn't mind.

[e31]

The most impressive feat of lane splitting I ever saw was on the interstate near LAX. Puttering along in my rental car when a suddenly a Police Harley (wide-as-fuck special edition) flew by at mach chicken. That guy was definitely riding like he stole it.

[Masked Bandit]

The problem with lane splitting here is that bikes are only on the road for a few months in the summer and the cagers aren't used to watching for them. The whole idea behind lane splitting (or filtering) is to bring the bikes to the front of the line in heavy traffic creating less back up for the cars. The light goes green and the bikes take off much faster than the regular cars. In Canada there just simply aren't enough bikes on the road for this strategy to make any sense so it's not employed.

Myself, I'm pretty hesitant to do it because I'm always expecting some jackass soccer Mom to "teach me a lesson" by cutting me off.

[Supa Dexta]

It should be encouraged to get more people on bikes though, to free up traffic more then just the few bikes out there now.

The one fact they stated was that if 10% of ppl switched to bikes, 40% of traffic jams would free up.. Even if it was half that it would be swell.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
It should be encouraged to get more people on bikes though, to free up traffic more then just the few bikes out there now.

The one fact they stated was that if 10% of ppl switched to bikes, 40% of traffic jams would free up.. Even if it was half that it would be swell.

I wholeheartedly agree except we live in a VERY dangerous city with drivers who are simply not observant to the very basic road rules.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Ill just leave this here....

http://donnerpartykitchenstaff.com/pblog/images/MotorcycleHeadache300.jpg

Related story:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/tulsacrash.asp

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by firebane


I wholeheartedly agree except we live in a VERY dangerous city with drivers who are simply not observant to the very basic road rules.

They also stated its up to you not to get hit.

[speedog]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Ill just leave this here....

http://donnerpartykitchenstaff.com/pblog/images/MotorcycleHeadache300.jpg

Related story:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/tulsacrash.asp

:banghead:

Please do explain how this is relevant to what's being discussed in this thread?

[codetrap]

speedog, it's not relevent. Just another "this could happen to you" FUD picture.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Relevant due to cyclists speed at time of impact, also, location of impact would lend itself to the theory that he might have also been lane-splitting as well.

If you read the story, the road where this happened is well-known for trick riding and excessive speed by motorcycles...

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
trick riding and excessive speed by motorcycles...

neither of which are what lane splitting is about.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
neither of which are what lane splitting is about.
Thank you.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta


neither of which are what lane splitting is about.


Originally posted by ddduke
I do it every morning... I usually go 30-50km/hr faster then the flow of traffic...

Uh....... What???????

[Mista Bob]

TheHumbleGeek, let me guess you are one of those people who approach random motorcyclists and tell them how super dangerous dem donorcycles are. :rolleyes:

Anyways....

People not seeing you while you are lane splitting isn't exactly a big issue.
How often do you try to change lanes when there is a car directly next to you? Not often, I hope.
For most people its the same.
Can't really lane split when there isn't cars side by side, other wise it is just.... passing.

Now what the issue actually is, since it has never really been an accepted practice here...
Even if it was made 100% legal tomorrow, thanks to the self entitled attitude that is prevalent on the road in North America, people would be cutting you off on purpose.
Opening their doors, etc and basically anything to try and stop anyone from getting ahead of them in traffic.
Would take awhile before all the idiots get it in their head that it is legal and OK if it happened.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Relevant due to cyclists speed at time of impact, also, location of impact would lend itself to the theory that he might have also been lane-splitting as well.

You'd better stop driving black ford focus's or this could happen to you...

http://cdn.fairfaxregional.com.au/silverstone-feed-data/d5b07cd3-e21d-413f-9cb2-9cafe93e7641.jpg

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob
TheHumbleGeek, let me guess you are one of those people who approach random motorcyclists and tell them how super dangerous dem donorcycles are. :rolleyes:

Anyways....

People not seeing you while you are lane splitting isn't exactly a big issue.
How often do you try to change lanes when there is a car directly next to you? Not often, I hope.
For most people its the same.
Can't really lane split when there isn't cars side by side, other wise it is just.... passing.

Now what the issue actually is, since it has never really been an accepted practice here...
Even if it was made 100% legal tomorrow, thanks to the self entitled attitude that is prevalent on the road in North America, people would be cutting you off on purpose.
Opening their doors, etc and basically anything to try and stop anyone from getting ahead of them in traffic.
Would take awhile before all the idiots get it in their head that it is legal and OK if it happened.

Uh, nope... well, ok, i do admit to calling crotch-rockets donor-cycles, mostly because people who buy bikes like that probably won't ride them within legal confines more than 30% of the time, and will ride like arrogant ass-hats the rest of the time because that sense of entitlement isnt just a car thing... Am i against speeding? nope, ive been known to do it from time to time... HOWEVER, I do advocate doing it smartly, and lane-splitting is not smart. Yes, i do say that because people would not expect it. Not to mention, as a driver of a 4wheeled vehicle, how to I get your plate/insurance info when you rip past my car at 50+ over the limit and take one of my mirrors right off?

Heres what bugs me... All this crap about lane-splitting is completely pointless because of one simple fact... WE ARE NOT IN EUROPE/THE-REST-OF-THE-WORLD.... The laws and road rules that work well for those other places probably wont work well here... and some of the laws here have been proven to not work anywhere else in the world...

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by codetrap


You'd better stop driving black ford focus's or this could happen to you...

http://cdn.fairfaxregional.com.au/silverstone-feed-data/d5b07cd3-e21d-413f-9cb2-9cafe93e7641.jpg

You are 100% right that it could...

Notice tho, the picture doesnt show any other vehicle involved...

Relevant story?

[Moonracer]

First off, I don't ride a motorcycle but I don't see a major problem with lane splitting in gridlock or low speed gridlock. When traffic is flowing normally, at the speed limit, I do not agree with speeding by everyone while lane splitting. If they changed the law to make it legal then so be it (not the speeding part). I'm more pro-bicycle than motorbike, but anything that helps in getting more cars off the road the better. :thumbsup:

[codetrap]

I was just pointing out something of similar relevance to your shock photos. Your photos have nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I was just following your example.


Also, what's wrong with talking about lane splitting? I tried it once on deerfoot when it was totally stopped, and people in cars actually went out of their way to block me. Everyone was stopped, and there was a dude in a truck that actually pulled across the line to stop me from going forward. Total dick move. Another dude in a BMW opened his car door. Now, I was idling my way through, not going fast by any means... balancing on my feet, just trying to get off deerfoot because I was literally baking in the sun. My FJR generates quite a bit of heat. :)

I wouldn't do it in moving traffic though, it's just not worth it. Too many assholes out there and I like my skin in one piece.

[Moonracer]

Originally posted by codetrap
I was just pointing out something of similar relevance to your shock photos. Your photos have nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I was just following your example.


Also, what's wrong with talking about lane splitting? I tried it once on deerfoot when it was totally stopped, and people in cars actually went out of their way to block me. Everyone was stopped, and there was a dude in a truck that actually pulled across the line to stop me from going forward. Total dick move. Another dude in a BMW opened his car door. Now, I was idling my way through, not going fast by any means... balancing on my feet, just trying to get off deerfoot because I was literally baking in the sun. My FJR generates quite a bit of heat. :)

I wouldn't do it in moving traffic though, it's just not worth it. Too many assholes out there and I like my skin in one piece.

The problem is that it's not legal here and not widely known about by the average driver. So naturally if someone is getting ahead of them because they are driving a more efficient mode of transport people get jealous and pissed off that they gotta sit there and wait.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Uh, define "nothing to do with the topic at hand" when as i pointed out that one of the other people posting admitted to travelling at 30-50+ OVER the limit and that the person in the story was doing approximately the same speed when he collided with a tractor trailer...


And FYI, The related story to YOUR pic, is that the driver of the focus collided with a nissan pathfinder that had pulled off to the side of the road.... Neither driver was doing anything illegal, stupid or dangerous, unlike the motorcyclist in my story....

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Moonracer
The problem is that it's not legal here and not widely known about by the average driver. So naturally if someone is getting ahead of them because they are driving a more efficient mode of transport people get jealous and pissed off that they gotta sit there and wait. The problem is that people think they have the right to police what I do, and they're willing to risk my life to try to teach me a lesson, even though it has absolutely no bearing or impact on their own lives.


TheHumbleGeek, I know where my photo came from. And your photos has exactly the same relevance as mine because neither of them were lane splitting. Hence, not relevent. You might as well post an image of a cat drinking gravy.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Uh, nope... well, ok, i do admit to calling crotch-rockets donor-cycles, mostly because people who buy bikes like that probably won't ride them within legal confines more than 30% of the time, and will ride like arrogant ass-hats the rest of the time because that sense of entitlement isnt just a car thing... Am i against speeding? nope, ive been known to do it from time to time... HOWEVER, I do advocate doing it smartly, and lane-splitting is not smart. Yes, i do say that because people would not expect it. Not to mention, as a driver of a 4wheeled vehicle, how to I get your plate/insurance info when you rip past my car at 50+ over the limit and take one of my mirrors right off?

Heres what bugs me... All this crap about lane-splitting is completely pointless because of one simple fact... WE ARE NOT IN EUROPE/THE-REST-OF-THE-WORLD.... The laws and road rules that work well for those other places probably wont work well here... and some of the laws here have been proven to not work anywhere else in the world...

Wow, generalize much. :rolleyes:
I never rode my "crotch rocket" like an ass-hat. Every single person I know with one, does not ride them like an ass-hat.
If you got past your idiotic completely baseless bias against motorcycles, you would be able to see the facts.
The vast majority of motorcyclists, no matter what they may ride, ride sensibly on the streets.
Motorcycles are only as dangerous as the rider makes them.
I could make the exact same comments about cars and how anyone with a fast car always drives like an ass-hat endangering others, but I don't.
Because it isn't based in reality and would make myself look like an idiot (something you aren't worried about, clearly).

Your entire posts are completely filled with absurd what-if situations that never happen in reality. Which goes hand in hand with the rest of your fact devoid view on motorcycles.
Why bother looking at reality, when you can make up your own right.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Now that part, i do agree with... I can't begin to count the number of times I've been cut off IN A COMPANY CAR while driving only a slight bit faster than the normal flow of traffic (less than 5kph differential)

[Hallowed_point]

Related or not..that picture is really disturbing..:eek:

Glad my brother sold his dang crotch rocket. Especially
as he would listen to his ipod while riding in traffic.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
Related or not..that picture is really disturbing..:eek:

Glad my brother sold his dang crotch rocket. Especially
as he would listen to his ipod while riding in traffic. So? I listen to the radio to get the traffic report. Also listen to tunes on the highway. Also answer the odd phone call.

Your point?

Oh, and the images are disturbing, granted, which is a good thing, means we're all human enough to care. ;)

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


Wow, generalize much. :rolleyes:
I never rode my &quot;crotch rocket&quot; like an ass-hat. Every single person I know with one, does not ride them like an ass-hat.
If you got past your idiotic completely baseless bias against motorcycles, you would be able to see the facts.
The vast majority of motorcyclists, no matter what they may ride, ride sensibly on the streets.
Motorcycles are only as dangerous as the rider makes them.
I could make the exact same comments about cars and how anyone with a fast car always drives like an ass-hat endangering others, but I don't.
Because it isn't based in reality and would make myself look like an idiot (something you aren't worried about, clearly).

Your entire posts are completely filled with absurd what-if situations that never happen in reality. Which goes hand in hand with the rest of your fact devoid view on motorcycles.
Why bother looking at reality, when you can make up your own right.

Really? and you drive/ride how often? I drive for work AND personal use, some days as little as an hour or two, and during the summer, as much as 14+hours a day AVERAGE... During the summer months, I encounter an average of two or three motorcyclists a day and the only ones, THE ONLY ONES, driving within the laws are the cruiser bikes, and even then, its no guarantee... You say that yourself and the people you know all don't ride them like an ass-hat, but i ask how you could possibly know what they ride like when they are by themselves? You say my opinion is completely baseless and biased, yet, you have never spent a summer day with me driving around and seeing what ive seen.

Sure, you could say the same thing about fast cars, and guess what, you'd probably be more right than any of us with faster cars would want to admit. You call me an idiot, but are not willing to accept that some of us have a much better grasp of reality than you who live in a fantasy world where motorcycles are the only vehicles worthy of being on the road...

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by codetrap
So? I listen to the radio to get the traffic report. Also listen to tunes on the highway. Also answer the odd phone call.

Your point?

Oh, and the images are disturbing, granted, which is a good thing, means we're all human enough to care. ;)

Thing is, distracted driving (OR riding) is dangerous. Do i think its bad that you listen to tunes while riding? nope, But i do think its like everything else to do with motorized transportation (CAR/TRUCK/MOTORCYCLE/ATV/WHATEVER)... Do it responsibly, safely and with the best attempt to do it legally. Which lane-splitting AT PRESENT isn't.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Thing is, distracted driving (OR riding) is dangerous. Do i think its bad that you listen to tunes while riding? nope, But i do think its like everything else to do with motorized transportation (CAR/TRUCK/MOTORCYCLE/ATV/WHATEVER)... Do it responsibly, safely and with the best attempt to do it legally. Which lane-splitting AT PRESENT isn't. I totally agree, distracted driving is dangerous. I would like to see lane splitting made legal personally. I can see putting some rules around it, like not being able to exceed the speed limit, common sense stuff, but it would be nice. And that's the point of the discussion. Not to trade secrets on how to do it, but how we'd like the rules to change because the current ones don't make sense.

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Really? and you drive/ride how often? I drive for work AND personal use, some days as little as an hour or two, and during the summer, as much as 14+hours a day AVERAGE... During the summer months, I encounter an average of two or three motorcyclists a day and the only ones, THE ONLY ONES, driving within the laws are the cruiser bikes, and even then, its no guarantee... You say that yourself and the people you know all don't ride them like an ass-hat, but i ask how you could possibly know what they ride like when they are by themselves? You say my opinion is completely baseless and biased, yet, you have never spent a summer day with me driving around and seeing what ive seen.

Sure, you could say the same thing about fast cars, and guess what, you'd probably be more right than any of us with faster cars would want to admit. You call me an idiot, but are not willing to accept that some of us have a much better grasp of reality than you who live in a fantasy world where motorcycles are the only vehicles worthy of being on the road...

Wow, you drive bro? Cool story
I could also say the vast majority of cars do not drive within the laws of the road also. And I would be right too, wouldn't be a fact worth mentioning but who cares about that.

I know how my friends ride because I've ridden with them plenty and uh....because I know them?
People don't magically transform into super-idiots over night.
I call your opinion baseless and biased because well... it is? Anyone with half a brain in this topic can see this.
I call you an idiot, because nothing you have said is backed up by facts and you are generalizing a very large group of people because there are a small minority who are bad apples.

If you were actually paying attention while driving (not likely) you would have noticed all the other motorcycles not being ass-hats.
But they don't stand out as much, clearly, since people like you are always doing your best to try and kill us.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by codetrap
So? I listen to the radio to get the traffic report. Also listen to tunes on the highway. Also answer the odd phone call.

Your point?

Oh, and the images are disturbing, granted, which is a good thing, means we're all human enough to care. ;)

Your call I'm not judging you for it as you're not my brother.
He has a bad habit of not paying attention at the best of times never mind on a bike.

Plus, I think it is considerably more dangerous to have ANY additional distraction while on a bike. No cage to protect you if anything goes south. Anything that impacts your hearing/concentration on two wheels is dangerous. Don't hear a car coming up behind you with a texting driver at the wheel?

Too late..

[Supa Dexta]

No, he claimed to do 30-50 over the fow of traffic, not over the limit. Lets say for forums sake the 50 was an exaggeration..

Now lets says traffic on deerfoot on a nice clear day is backed up and going 5-10kmh.. And he's doing 35-40km (school zone speed - so he has enough reaction time to stop for a kid running out) He would be completely safe to handle traffic as well..

Minus the dickheads mentioned that somehow thing its their job to try and slow, or hinder a motorcyclist with a door, or pulling in front of them to cut them off... :confused: :confused: Why do people do that? You feel that threatened that a person on a motorcycle is carrying on with his day that you feel the need to possibly harm them? when they'll be long gone and forgotten in seconds otherwise.


Even if traffic was doing 50 and he was doing 80 for short stints, and tucking back in here and there and weaving thru.. it can all be done carefully. The laws still exist where there is lane splitting.. its not like he's weaving in and out at 140 in a 110.. Thats not the point of this thread but somehow people view it as one in the same. This is about slow speed manoeuvres and clearing traffic and allowing those smart, competent, and brave enough to get where they are going quicker.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
Your call I'm not judging you for it as you're not my brother.
He has a bad habit of not paying attention at the best of times never mind on a bike.

Plus, I think it is considerably more dangerous to have ANY additional distraction while on a bike. No cage to protect you if anything goes south. Anything that impacts your hearing/concentration on two wheels is dangerous. Don't hear a car coming up behind you who is also texting? Too late.. It's all good, but your last comment tells me you don't ride. You can't hear the car coming up behind your no matter what. The wind noise drowns out everything, and I mean everything. Also, pretty much everyone I know that rides wears ear plugs to preserve their hearing from that wind noise. Honestly, you can't hear fuck all, or at least I can't on my bike. So I tend to listen to tunes in my helmet. The plugs halt the wind noise, and I can hear the music ok over them. I don't blast it though... don't like it loud. The speakers are placed right on the inside of my helmet, out of the slip stream that buggers up all the external sounds. In order to talk on the phone, I have to put my windscreen all the way up.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
I drive for work AND personal use, some days as little as an hour or two, and during the summer, as much as 14+hours a day AVERAGE...

Wait, is 14+ hours a day the maximum number of hours you drive in a day or is it the average? This is a critical point we need to understand so we can weigh how reliable your scientifically sound observations are.


Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
During the summer months, I encounter an average of two or three motorcyclists a day...

How do you possibly drive a maximum average of 14+ hours a day and only see 2 or 3 motorcycles?


Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
You say my opinion is completely baseless and biased, yet, you have never spent a summer day with me driving around and seeing what ive seen.

Which, by your own admission above, is what...2-3 motorcycles?

Contrary to what your vast scientific research has "proven", accident and death rates for the usual crotch rocket demographic (young males) is actually declining in recent years. At the same time, accident and death rates for "mature" riders (more likely to be the cruiser demographic) is on the rise. The below is just a single discussion on this:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-02/news/fl-motorcycle-crashes-older-bikers-20121130_1_motorcycle-deaths-motorcycle-crashes-motorcycle-fatalities

[Hallowed_point]

^No I don't ride..personally if you want to lane split go nuts. I've got no problem with bikers..besides those a holes with no muffler HD's. Your explanation makes sense..I didn't factor the wind noise as being that severe. Figured the helmets were designed to minimize that.

[codetrap]

Hallowed, I'm not planning on lane splitting anytime soon. Like I said at the beginning, I don't need the demerits. :) I also dislike those too loud bikes. I'm think they're stupid and unnecessary, and don't provide any safety at all. I think they're purely dick compensation, but that's another whole discussion.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


Wow, you drive bro? Cool story
I could also say the vast majority of cars do not drive within the laws of the road also. And I would be right too, wouldn't be a fact worth mentioning but who cares about that.


I would actually disagree with you, because as you've said, Its the minority that make the rest look bad...


Originally posted by Mista Bob
I know how my friends ride because I've ridden with them plenty and uh....because I know them?
People don't magically transform into super-idiots over night.
I call your opinion baseless and biased because well... it is? Anyone with half a brain in this topic can see this.
I call you an idiot, because nothing you have said is backed up by facts and you are generalizing a very large group of people because there are a small minority who are bad apples.

So, because you and your group of friends claim to ride safe, that MUST mean all motorcyclists do the same thing.... :rolleyes: At least i have the decency to admit that I can't speak for all car drivers, or even all black focus drivers...

Originally posted by Mista Bob
If you were actually paying attention while driving (not likely) you would have noticed all the other motorcycles not being ass-hats.
But they don't stand out as much, clearly, since people like you are always doing your best to try and kill us.

Oh, of course, it's MY fault i didn't see you coming up from behind me BETWEEN TWO LANES at whatever your speed is WHEN YOU WERE IN MY BLINDSPOT... *facepalm* How could I possibly have been so inattentive..... /sarcasm...

I think you need to take off your rose-coloured glasses and help yourself to a nice big dose of reality... Yes, there probably were alot more riders that I don't remember specifically because they were riding safely and with the flow of traffic etc etc... UNFORTUNATELY, they are the ones that are mostly forgotten and the douche-nozzle riders become the remembered ones...

Besides, when have facts ever mattered on a beyond thread, like, seriously?

[ercchry]

cant we just convert all the bike paths and cycle tracks to motorcycles only?

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


Wait, is 14+ hours a day the maximum number of hours you drive in a day or is it the average? This is a critical point we need to understand so we can weigh how reliable your scientifically sound observations are.



How do you possibly drive a maximum average of 14+ hours a day and only see 2 or 3 motorcycles?



Which, by your own admission above, is what...2-3 motorcycles?

Contrary to what your vast scientific research has &quot;proven&quot;, accident and death rates for the usual crotch rocket demographic (young males) is actually declining in recent years. At the same time, accident and death rates for &quot;mature&quot; riders (more likely to be the cruiser demographic) is on the rise. The below is just a single discussion on this:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-02/news/fl-motorcycle-crashes-older-bikers-20121130_1_motorcycle-deaths-motorcycle-crashes-motorcycle-fatalities

14+ hours a day is an average timeframe i spend behind the wheel of a vehicle (company car or personal one) on an average work day. Part of the reason why I may only see 2-3 motorcycles a day could be that i do a fair bit of my work driving at night, when most VEHICLES are parked, which reduces the number of vehicles on the road, including motorcycles. If i drive during the day, You would be correct in assuming I would see a corresponding increase in the number of motorcycles I would encounter. Yes, looking at my reference point from this perspective, i do admit that perhaps my experience is biased, as the more responsible riders would likely be off the roads when i do most of my driving. However, my personal experience is still that most riders do drive like entitled ass-hats because that is what MY experience has been up to this point.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by ercchry
cant we just convert all the bike paths and cycle tracks to motorcycles only?

:clap: I'd actually support that! Get on it Nenshi!

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by ercchry
cant we just convert all the bike paths and cycle tracks to motorcycles only?

or, widen them out to four lanes, outer most for bicycles (top speed of like 40-50, inner most for motorized cycles (top speed 90-110) for inside the city limits....

[Mibz]

BAN WIND

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mibz
BAN WIND But then what will I break to feel better?

[Supa Dexta]

It sounds like you are driving more than the allowed hours.. Therefore being unsafe and putting others in danger.

Someone alert one of the forum cops to keep tabs on this guy

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek

Oh, of course, it's MY fault i didn't see you coming up from behind me BETWEEN TWO LANES at whatever your speed is WHEN YOU WERE IN MY BLINDSPOT... *facepalm* How could I possibly have been so inattentive..... /sarcasm...


I don't lane split, so??? :dunno:
I've also never seen anyone lane split in Calgary before, as someone mentioned before this isn't a topic for talking about how to lane split and so on.
This is a topic talking about how lane splitting is safer. Which it is, there is a reason why it is legal and accepted in the rest of the world.
And it doesn't need to be done at break neck speeds like you seem to think.
But using logic is clearly something you struggle with, so I won't fault you for that.

Also, as I said before, lane splitting is only done when cars are side by side. If there weren't cars directly next to each other, it would be called passing in another lane. . . .
If you make a habit of doing lane changes when there are cars directly next to you, you might want to quit driving while your ahead.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Actually, the legal maximum allowed is 16hours per day, every day. As 14 is the average for a work day (including transit time to and from work), I am still within the legal confines.

[Supa Dexta]

Source? I can't see that number anywhere.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


I don't lane split, so??? :dunno:
I've also never seen anyone lane split in Calgary before, as someone mentioned before this isn't a topic for talking about how to lane split and so on.
This is a topic talking about how lane splitting is safer. Which it is, there is a reason why it is legal and accepted in the rest of the world.
And it doesn't need to be done at break neck speeds like you seem to think.
But using logic is clearly something you struggle with, so I won't fault you for that.

Also, as I said before, lane splitting is only done when cars are side by side. If there weren't cars directly next to each other, it would be called passing in another lane. . . .
If you make a habit of doing lane changes when there are cars directly next to you, you might want to quit driving while your ahead.

Here's something that YOUR logic keeps missing... We arent the rest of the world... We aren't the UK, or France, or Germany, Or Sweden, or Australia... We are the Americas, or North American Continent. You keep glossing over the fact that its NOT legal EVERYWHERE, and that its ILLEGAL in just as many countries as its legal.... Should i also point to the wikipedia article, which points to the fact that most of the countries where lane-splitting is prevalent are DEVELOPING countries, not so-called developed countries like the US...

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Here's something that YOUR logic keeps missing... We arent the rest of the world... We aren't the UK, or France, or Germany, Or Sweden, or Australia... We are the Americas, or North American Continent. You keep glossing over the fact that its NOT legal EVERYWHERE, and that its ILLEGAL in just as many countries as its legal.... Should i also point to the wikipedia article, which points to the fact that most of the countries where lane-splitting is prevalent are DEVELOPING countries, not so-called developed countries like the US...

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

Ever been to California? Watching how effective lane splitting is in San Francisco during rush hour is a real eye opener.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Uh, define &quot;nothing to do with the topic at hand&quot; when as i pointed out that one of the other people posting admitted to travelling at 30-50+ OVER the limit and that the person in the story was doing approximately the same speed when he collided with a tractor trailer...


And FYI, The related story to YOUR pic, is that the driver of the focus collided with a nissan pathfinder that had pulled off to the side of the road.... Neither driver was doing anything illegal, stupid or dangerous, unlike the motorcyclist in my story....

Learn to read. I said 30-50 faster then the flow of traffic which is basically at a standstill.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Source? I can't see that number anywhere.


Alberta Transportation Website &PDF for commercial drivers:
Commercial Safety & Compliance (http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType276/Production/Module5.pdf) Page 13 in the PDF specifically.

The 16-Hour Elapsed Time in a “Workshift” Rule
No carrier shall ask, allow or require a driver to drive, and no driver shall drive a commercial vehicle after 16 hours of time have elapsed since the driver started a workshift (i.e. the clock starts ticking at the conclusion of the most recent period of 8 or more consecutive hours of off-duty time).

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by ddduke


Learn to read. I said 30-50 faster then the flow of traffic which is basically at a standstill.

My apologies, I misspoke. I said speed when I intended to say speed differential.

[bjstare]

I'm surprised no one's asked this yet, but forgive me if someone's already done it...

HumbleGeek, do you ride a street bike? Have you owned one? Have you ridden in rush hour traffic on one?

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Here's something that YOUR logic keeps missing... We arent the rest of the world... We aren't the UK, or France, or Germany, Or Sweden, or Australia... We are the Americas, or North American Continent. You keep glossing over the fact that its NOT legal EVERYWHERE, and that its ILLEGAL in just as many countries as its legal.... Should i also point to the wikipedia article, which points to the fact that most of the countries where lane-splitting is prevalent are DEVELOPING countries, not so-called developed countries like the US...

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

:rofl:
Did you even read that? It says nothing in that regard at all.
All it does is mention it isn't legal in the states except for California, that it is commonplace in developing countries, and that it was made illegal in Australia (but the practice continues and the law is not enforced).
The whole thing is written from the perspective of the USA and is almost entirely about the USA.
So how you got what you said from that, I have no idea. It does not list countries where it is and isn't legal and nor does it say or imply anything you said.

Also I'm not glossing over the fact that we are not these Countries, I'm only stating that it is a safer practice when done properly.
Hell, I even posted why it *would not* work here. If you bothered to read.


Originally posted by Mista Bob

Now what the issue actually is, since it has never really been an accepted practice here...
Even if it was made 100% legal tomorrow, thanks to the self entitled attitude that is prevalent on the road in North America, people would be cutting you off on purpose.
Opening their doors, etc and basically anything to try and stop anyone from getting ahead of them in traffic.
Would take awhile before all the idiots get it in their head that it is legal and OK if it happened.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Nope, I don't, haven't and given what i've witnessed as far as car vs car, I wouldn't be willing to try it either.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


:rofl:
Did you even read that? It says nothing in that regard at all.
All it does is mention it isn't legal in the states except for California, that it is commonplace in developing countries, and that it was made illegal in Australia (but the practice continues and the law is not enforced).
The whole thing is written from the perspective of the USA and is almost entirely about the USA.
So how you got what you said from that, I have no idea. It does not list countries where it is and isn't legal and nor does it say or imply anything you said.

Also I'm not glossing over the fact that we are not these Countries, I'm only stating that it is a safer practice when done properly.
Hell, I even posted why it *would not* work here. If you bothered to read.



Actually, i DID read that... but you glossed over the fact that the entitlement ALREADY is a problem for ALL drivers, cars AND motorcycles both. Not to mention, giving motorcycles a law which would lend it self to re-enforcing the sense of entitlement that riders would feel is a very BAD idea...
I did chuckle at this:
"he said that officials with the California Highway Patrol told him that they wished they had never begun allowing the practice.""
Reference: Responsibility and Liability Issues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting#Responsibility_and_liability_issues)

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Nope, I don't, haven't and given what i've witnessed as far as car vs car, I wouldn't be willing to try it either. So, do you make a habit of trying to tell people how to do something for which you can't or won't do yourself? Are you that guy that goes up to the cockpit to tell the pilot how to fly the plane better because you slept in a holiday inn express last night?

**yes, now I'm just poking fun**

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Actually, i DID read that...

So you read it, disregarded it and made up your own story and then still cited it as a reference anyways?

[bjstare]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Nope, I don't, haven't and given what i've witnessed as far as car vs car, I wouldn't be willing to try it either.

Kinda figured as much.

Doesn't even make sense to try and debate this subect with people who have no experience to base their arguments on.

And no, driving your car does not count as experience on a motorcycle, even if you do it 24 hours a day on average in the summer.
:rolleyes:

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by codetrap
So, do you make a habit of trying to tell people how to do something for which you can't or won't do yourself? Are you that guy that goes up to the cockpit to tell the pilot how to fly the plane better because you slept in a holiday inn express last night?

**yes, now I'm just poking fun**

Been tempted with airport security on WAY more than one occasion, simply because i know the laws regarding person/property searches from the security perspective and have witnessed SOOOO many doing it incorrectly that it makes me shudder...

Im not talking from a rider's point of view tho, im merely trying to provide a car driver's perspective.

[lilmira]

Just curious, it doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't affect me. So lane splitting is about filling up as much room as possible or filtering the bikes through, sounds good. What if the next block is also filled? So the bikes will have to keep lane splitting until the road is clear? The moment you move back into a lane, wouldn't you be occupying lane space again. It did happen to me before, this guy lane split and moved back right in front of me, he just skipped the line, it didn't benefit me at all. We are both still stuck in traffic. :nut:

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by Mista Bob


So you read it, disregarded it and made up your own story and then still cited it as a reference anyways?

Huh??????

Im actually re-reading it again, because you have me completely baffled at what you are trying to convince yourself of.....

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by cjblair


Kinda figured as much.

Doesn't even make sense to try and debate this subect with people who have no experience to base their arguments on.

And no, driving your car does not count as experience on a motorcycle, even if you do it 24 hours a day on average in the summer.
:rolleyes:

Have i ever said that it would? Ive said that my experience as a driver indicates that its not safe...

[codetrap]

The controversial practice of motorcycle lane-splitting is legal in California. Or at least it's not illegal.

Motorists may hate it, and critics may say it's unsafe. But the California Highway Patrol recently posted guidelines suggesting they condone the practice. According to them, though, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

The agency's guidelines rest on a fundamental rule: a motorcycle is allowed to pass between cars in adjoining lanes of traffic as long as it does so safely.

"Safely" means three things:

1. A motorcyclist should split lanes at no more than 10 mph above traffic speed.

2. A motorcyclist should not split lanes when traffic is moving at more than 30 mph.

3. A motorcyclist should split lanes using the space between the No. 1 and No. 2 lanes.

The guidelines are not laws. A motorcyclist could not be cited for breaking them, but neither could one avoid being cited by following them if he were otherwise riding unsafely -- not paying attention to environmental issues like lighting, weather and so on. An officer could cite a motorcyclist for riding recklessly, whether within the guidelines or not, said Sgt. Mark Pope, statewide coordinator for the CHP’s California Motorcyclist Safety Program.

The guidelines, simple though they may be, took seven years of haggling between agencies and organizations with competing agendas. That meant "everybody, proponent and opponent alike,” Pope said. “There were people that believed [lane-splitting] was unsafe.”

[Moonracer]

Originally posted by ercchry
cant we just convert all the bike paths and cycle tracks to motorcycles only?

NO! :D

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
Have i ever said that it would? Ive said that my experience as a driver indicates that its not safe...
Why Anecdotal Evidence is not evidence (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence)

[TheHumbleGeek]

My apologies, I did not realise that my opinion was considered science fact...
I guess then, i also can't point to the part of that wikipedia article that says that even tho law makers in australia have made lane-splitting illegal, it still happens regularly, as proof that motorcyclists don't really care whether its legal or not as they will do it either way?

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek
My apologies, I did not realise that my opinion was considered science fact... It's ok. As long as you realize your opinion is just wrong, we can all move on. :D

[16hypen3sp]

I love this thread.

Lane splitting should be legal when a rider is approaching a line of stopped traffic at a red light. Said rider splits the lane to the front of the line, light turns green and boom, he's gone... ahead of the pack.

Stacking up in traffic actually increases your chance of a collision. So if I approach a line of stopped traffic, stack up (like your legally supposed to do), and continue in amongst traffic once the light is green, I am at a higher chance for someone to change lanes into me.

That little tidbit comes directly from Alberta Motorcycle Training.

Lane splitting puts the rider at the front of the pack.

I have lane split a few times in the past. I only do it when traffic is completely stopped at a red light.

Sometimes when I stack up, I remember that video on youtube where a guy on a GSXR or something stacks up in traffic at a red light, and he gets smoked from behind by an SUV........ thats when I decide to split the lane.

[TheHumbleGeek]

Originally posted by codetrap
It's ok. As long as you realize your opinion is just wrong, we can all move on. :D

Ya know, i was thinking the same thing *poke poke* FLAMEWAR ON!!!


My question at the moment is, when several motorcyclists have "filtered" to the front of the pack at a red light, where do the ones not right at the very front go when the inevitable red-light-runner caused accident happens and those riders end up directly in the path of the one of the crashed vehicles? wouldnt it be safer to maybe not be right at the very front, but perhaps a car or two length back from the intersection?

[codetrap]

Originally posted by TheHumbleGeek


Ya know, i was thinking the same thing *poke poke* FLAMEWAR ON!!!


My question at the moment is, when several motorcyclists have &quot;filtered&quot; to the front of the pack at a red light, where do the ones not right at the very front go when the inevitable red-light-runner caused accident happens and those riders end up directly in the path of the one of the crashed vehicles? wouldnt it be safer to maybe not be right at the very front, but perhaps a car or two length back from the intersection?

First, it's not inevitable. Second, these types of situations don't happen in a vacuum where everyone has tunnel vision. When I'm sitting at a light, I'm not staring off into space directly ahead with tunnel vision. I'm looking around. Assessing traffic patterns, checking out the hot chick in the skirt, admiring the nice dog she has, watching up and down the road for drivers doing stupid things... and so on. I'm very aware of the fact that my armor is only a couple of cm thick. Due to all this, I'm already aware of the driver in the vehicle that isn't slowing down for the red while it's still "pink" and I'm not going to proceed. So I'll watch that accident unfold in front of me and hope I don't get hit by the shrapnel, or I'll GTFO the bike and book it out of the trajectory path. This of course is no different that I would do if I was naturally at the front of the pack sitting at a light already.

This is all about risk assessment. Every second of it. There are always going to be people that get killed, and that is a fact. But not everyone. I don't agree with the "it's not if, but when" statement. So far, I've been 16 years without a collision. My current bike has 56k on it. The only time I dumped my bike was in a parking lot when my passenger decided she wanted to get off and I didn't have both feet down yet and she dumped us both, that was my first bike, a 1998 Katana.

[SOAB]

in every discussion about current traffic laws, there is always one guy that starts the "well i see this..." and "what if this happens or that happens"...

risk assessment is something that everybody should be doing everytime they are on a motorcycle or in a car. if you can't determine whether a particular speed or maneuver that you're doing is dangerous, than maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

if you've never ridden a motorcycle, you don't even have a clue as to what you're talking about and are just spewing bullshit.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by SOAB
if you've never ridden a motorcycle, you don't even have a clue as to what you're talking about and are just spewing bullshit.

This is the truest thing I've read in this thread so far.

I hate when people who have never been on a bike give their opinion on how people should ride, which maneuver they should or should not do, what's safe/unsafe. Until you're on a bike you'll never understand how safe splitting lanes can be, how you can safely take a turn at higher speeds, where your bike can or can not fit. When you're on a bike you can see everything around you and don't have a big cage like a car so you can gauge your moves a lot better.

surprised Graham hasn't jumped all over this thread yet

[adamc]

I split Deerfoot every fucking day, and will filter at lights as much as possible. I don't feel safe wedged between inattentive Calgary motorists. After I did a 7000mile trip through the states this year I wouldn't do it any other way. California has it totally right, and recently the highway patrol put out best practice recommendations for lane splitting.

[firebane]

Originally posted by SOAB
if you've never ridden a motorcycle, you don't even have a clue as to what you're talking about and are just spewing bullshit. [/B]

I would say there is simply a large of part of society I am glad that don't ride bikes and it should stay that way.

I've had a few close encounters myself due to people simply being blind to traffic and situations. You really have no idea how bad drivers are in a vehicle until you are on a bike and riding around.

You either grow the balls and enjoy the freedom of the bike or you sell it.

[16hypen3sp]

Where is the section in the TSA where it says lane splitting is illegal?

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by firebane
I've had a few close encounters myself due to people simply being blind to traffic and situations. You really have no idea how bad drivers are in a vehicle until you are on a bike and riding around.

I can definitely agree with this.

The flip-side being that I was a lot more aware of my surroundings in my car after having ridden bikes.

[firebane]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


I can definitely agree with this.

The flip-side being that I was a lot more aware of my surroundings in my car after having ridden bikes.

:thumbsup:

A point I can also agree with.