Another original 'what car to buy' thread

[relyt92]

Hey all, looking at changing my car up, and am looking for some feedback and suggestions. What I want out of the vehicle: decent level of luxury and features (leather, nav+backup cam preferred), quick (250+ hp range) automatic sadly as I spend a lot of time in traffic, as old as 2007 probably. I'm also looking for something that will be decently reliable, and give me some options for aftermarket to keep me from getting bored of it. AWD is definitely something I'd like to try out, and I'm looking at a budget of ~$20k. My current thoughts are these, and would much appreciate input on them as this is mostly new to me.
2007-2008 G35X with nav. Anyone have experience with the awd system in these? The car itself seems good, drives well and is nicely equipped, the VQ engine sounds quite nice too.
2008+ CTS4, I have absolutely no experience with Cadillacs or american cars in general, how are these? I haven't had a chance to go look at one yet but on paper and in pictures these look quite good with the 3.6L engine.
2007-2008 Subaru Legacy GT/3.0R, seems interior will be a step back, how's the automatic on these things? Subaru is definitely known for the AWD.
Late B7/early B8 A4. Quattro, less power with the turbo but that is fixed super easy. Seems like it will be a solid car, but what's reliability like on these? Never even driven a nicer German car.

Sorry for the length of this, and thanks to anyone who reads and gives input on this.

[Kloubek]

Interesting the G35 came up first in your list, as it was what I was thinking of. As a NA engine, I imagine there is some but limited upgrades but I'm unsure.

CTS4: Nearly no upgrades. Very sharp car, and peppy with the di version of the engine.

Subaru Legacy: This was my second thought, and your third. I'd go with the 2.5 turbo for certain. I believe the 3.0 is actually slower, though the torque band would be better. IMO, ho-hum styling both in and out.

I truly love Audi. They make the nicest interiors in the business, imo. Exteriors are nice too. But I'd only buy one with an oversized engine (S4) or turbo at the bare minimum and then APR it - as they respond very well to their tuning. AWD system is excellent as well.

What about an AWD BMW? 335i is a rocket, and the coupes are gorgeous.

[roll_over]

Lexus IS

[btimbit]

Infiniti or Audi

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Interesting the G35 came up first in your list, as it was what I was thinking of. As a NA engine, I imagine there is some but limited upgrades but I'm unsure.

CTS4: Nearly no upgrades. Very sharp car, and peppy with the di version of the engine.

Subaru Legacy: This was my second thought, and your third. I'd go with the 2.5 turbo for certain. I believe the 3.0 is actually slower, though the torque band would be better. IMO, ho-hum styling both in and out.

I truly love Audi. They make the nicest interiors in the business, imo. Exteriors are nice too. But I'd only buy one with an oversized engine (S4) or turbo at the bare minimum and then APR it - as they respond very well to their tuning. AWD system is excellent as well.

What about an AWD BMW? 335i is a rocket, and the coupes are gorgeous. Looks like we're fairly well on the same page. The G35 has just the basics regarding modifications, infact from what I've read most intakes actually take away power leaving FI ($$$$) and exhaust. Have you got any experience with the redesigned CTS? Reliability, how the awd system is etc. The only thing really keeping the legacy in the running is the GT which I would imagine has quite a bit of options for modifications, but I'm unsure of how the automatic transmission would hold up if boosting power.

The main thing holding me back from the Audi is reliability, as I know at one point it was quite bad, and has improved but I don't know how it would rank compared to what else I'm looking at, which is also what made me not even consider the 335XI outside of warranty. Any thoughts on that?


Originally posted by roll_over
Lexus IS I quite like the IS350 but to get AWD I'm a big jump in price, which I don't want to do. I can get the IS250 in AWD for my price but I'm afraid I would get bored of it with 200hp and no option for a big jump like the A4 has without spending a lot.

[Kloubek]

Nah... the IS isn't going to work for you.

No, I have little true experience with any of these cars; I just read the pros and cons, showdowns, etc.

[amear]

How about a B6/7 S4?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I've owned a Legacy GT 2.5T before and loved it, I would buy another one as my DD if my budget was that high.

[sidewaysD]

Acctually the New 2013-2014 CTS-4 does have a remapped upgrade to the user system. The older ones had the old system with a plethora of buttons.

The new CUE
(Cadillac User Experience entertainment). They limited the dash clutter, and put LCD's in the speedo cluster and touchscreen nav system.

All new Caddy's have this upgrade.

[rage2]

Not a fan of the G35X. The G35 was not bad, felt kinda sporty in handling. The X just numbs all of that down. Not sure how good it is in winter, but it was terrible in the summer. Such a bland car to drive.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[vtec4life]

Luxury? Check
Nav/Leather? Check
AWD? Check
250+hp? Check
Reliable? Check

$20K....... setting yourself up for disappointment I would say. We all want those things but with your budget I would get something newer with warranty and you would have to give up the AWD.

What your getting with $20K and all those options is not the best example of any of those vehicles your looking at.

Is it monthly payments or you want to pay cash?

if I were you I would either spend a few grand more or a lot less and save up for a nice clean A4/A6 with certified warranty.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by amear
How about a B6/7 S4?

For $20k?

Out of your choices, I'd go for the Legacy.

Sometimes, you can find the top-of-the-line spec.B in the used market for ~ that price +/-$5k.

They're unicorns though.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Accord Coupe?
I drive a '09 I4 and test drove the 09 6sp V6 as well. The 8th gen is WAY too heavy and underpowered. I'd go for the 06/07 if I wanted power. You lose a few HP but also ~150 lbs
http://new-car-search.autos.ca.msn.com/en/compare/compare.spy?id2=1092300109&id1=1092300107&specs-submit.y=8&specs-submit.x=52&make=Honda&year=2007&model=Accord+2-dr&id3=1072300108
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28445

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by jwslam

I drive a '09 I4 and test drove the 09 6sp V6 as well. The 8th gen is WAY too heavy and underpowered. I'd go for the 06/07 if I wanted power. You lose a few HP but also ~150 lbs
http://new-car-search.autos.ca.msn.com/en/compare/compare.spy?id2=1092300109&id1=1092300107&specs-submit.y=8&specs-submit.x=52&make=Honda&year=2007&model=Accord+2-dr&id3=1072300108
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28445

Hmm.. not doubting you but

"

In addition, Edmunds got a 2006 Accord V6 AT to go 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds, while they got a 2008 Accord V6 AT to go 0-60mph in 7.0 seconds.

The 8th gen Accord only weighs 165 lbs more, but has 24 more HP and 37 more ft-lbs of torque.


"

Plus, the 8th Gen is far more modern, looks fantastic and has lots of room.


OP, did you consider the GS350 AWD, Acura RL, or M35x? They are hard to find, but may be worth the wait.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed


Hmm.. not doubting you but

"

In addition, Edmunds got a 2006 Accord V6 AT to go 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds, while they got a 2008 Accord V6 AT to go 0-60mph in 7.0 seconds.

The 8th gen Accord only weighs 165 lbs more, but has 24 more HP and 37 more ft-lbs of torque.


"

Plus, the 8th Gen is far more modern, looks fantastic and has lots of room.


OP, did you consider the GS350 AWD, Acura RL, or M35x? They are hard to find, but may be worth the wait.

An RL would be so boss.

But has to be a dark colour.

Not silver or champagne.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by flipstah
For $20k?
~
They're unicorns though.

Exactly, I was in the same boat as OP last year, LF: $20k 'sports/entry-level luxury' sedan with less than 70k kms, been actively watching most of the models he mentioned and some needle-in-haystack deals do happen (sub-60k km G35 M6 sedans, low km Spec Bs/IS350 AWDs owned by rich older folk or those who have no idea how much their stuff is worth), you have to jump on that stuff and commit asap.

I've since moved on and just decided save up more and to buy something new next year.


Originally posted by Neil4Speed
OP, did you consider the GS350 AWD, Acura RL, or M35x? They are hard to find, but may be worth the wait.

I always felt those 3 models are retiree/old man cars, but that's just me :D

The 2nd gen KB1 RL is an awesome car though, I remember when it first came out I was working at the dealer, was one of the first to drive them from the transport truck, so many gadgets (which was kind of a bad thing sometimes - a good handful of recurring electrically related intermittent failures I remember) and typical Honda made-in-Japan reliability. I always thought it would be amazing to take that thing on a continental road-trip, holds itself really well in all conditions.

[bjstare]

I definitely would say go for the turbo Legacy, except IIRC you can't fully disable stability control. My parents have a turbo forester and just when you start having fun with it, stability control kicks in. Only way to fully disable is to pull the fuse, which kills ABS as well.

Thats a dealbreaker for me.

And yes, you can get B6 S4's for anywhere around 20k. My next car is very likely going to be a B6/B6.5 V8 S4. Maintenance costs will be significantly higher than a legacy turbo (the other car i'm interested in), but it's just one of those cars I feel like I have to have.

I was thinking about a 335i, but I've heard of the turbo's going on those and it costing $$$$, as well as the HPFP issues that plagued the ones that are in my price range, so that's what cut that car out for me. Aside from that its an awesome car, drove a 6mt one this summer and it was a blast.

[SkiBum5.0]

Like a Boss (http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2004-Volkswagen-Phaeton-W12-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ554210400)

Put that $7K into a maintenance savings account and this thing is the ticket. W12!!!!

[bjstare]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0
Like a Boss (http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2004-Volkswagen-Phaeton-W12-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ554210400)

Put that $7K into a maintenance savings account and this thing is the ticket. W12!!!!
:hitit:

Except the fact that the $7k maintenance fund could be burnt through in one trip to the shop haha

[flipstah]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0
Like a Boss (http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2004-Volkswagen-Phaeton-W12-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ554210400)

Put that $7K into a maintenance savings account and this thing is the ticket. W12!!!!

$7k is chump change for maintaining a Phaeton lol. Air suspension alone is what, $4-5k?

I was looking for one and then overhauling it for baller ride status. :bigpimp:

[clem24]

I'd say the B8 A4 would be at the top of my list. There was a Beyonder who just sold what appeared to be the Inside Line B8 A4 Avant for just a hair over $20.

[edit] Ah found it.. It was Mibz.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/375783/fs-2009-grey-audi-a4-avant/

[Masked Bandit]

Dodge Charger R/T AWD? 5.7L Hemi for fun factor.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Dodge Charger R/T AWD? 5.7L Hemi for fun factor.

He'll need to have a maintenance fund for that too, because of the dodge makes shitty cars factor. :drama:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by cjblair


He'll need to have a maintenance fund for that too, because of the dodge makes shitty cars factor. :drama:

I hate to admit it but I'm two years into my Ram and I haven't fixed a thing on it. I bought it slightly used so it's a 2010 with 50,000 KM and no repairs. This is the first Chrysler product I've owned in 20 years and so far it's been great. I guess we'll see how the next 50,000 KM go.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ercchry]

Originally posted by flipstah


$7k is chump change for maintaining a Phaeton lol. Air suspension alone is what, $4-5k?

I was looking for one and then overhauling it for baller ride status. :bigpimp:

you dont replace air suspension with factory shit... great excuse for accuair once it goes :bigpimp:

there is an older S8 for sale too for $13k or something... i love full sized luxury sedans

[relyt92]

Spent a bit of time looking at the A4 today. Very surprised actually. I don't know that I've ever actually been inside an Audi today, never mind driven one. The interior is much nicer than I was expecting, it always seems kind of 'blah' in pictures but they definitely make a nice interior. The 2.0T also feels quicker than it is on paper, doesn't drive like it only has a bit over 200hp. Has anyone got more experience with these regarding operating costs and reliability? I figure I will definitely be better on fuel than the G35X, but I'd assume the Infiniti would be cheaper to keep on the road? It looks like my decision will be between these two based on what I'm seeing so far.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by relyt92
Spent a bit of time looking at the A4 today. Very surprised actually. I don't know that I've ever actually been inside an Audi today, never mind driven one. The interior is much nicer than I was expecting, it always seems kind of 'blah' in pictures but they definitely make a nice interior. The 2.0T also feels quicker than it is on paper, doesn't drive like it only has a bit over 200hp. Has anyone got more experience with these regarding operating costs and reliability? I figure I will definitely be better on fuel than the G35X, but I'd assume the Infiniti would be cheaper to keep on the road? It looks like my decision will be between these two based on what I'm seeing so far.

Have an a4 that recently came off warranty, in the 95k km it's driven it's had about $8000 in issues (all covered under warranty), interior still looks like new and has held up very well, all around build quality is amazing and factory bose stereo is best in class IMO. Unreal in winter.

I recently sold my g37x, the only maintenance it ever needed was routine and it had 150xxx km, it's more fun to drive then the a4 and way quicker but build quality is cheap in comparison, leather, paint, etc. is all just plain cheap in comparison, even the bose stereo in the infiniti is worse. BUTTTTTT, it's way more reliable and cheaper to maintain. AWD system in the infiniti is worse also.

I've also owned an m45, even though the cost of the m45 is double what the a4 costs, the audi is still built of higher quality materials and is more refined. But again, the m45 was sold at 150ish k km and no issues outside of regular maintenance.

My 350z, no issues outside of regular maintenance.

No matter what the fanboys say, audi's aren't exactly known for reliability.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[relyt92]

Originally posted by ddduke


Have an a4 that recently came off warranty, in the 95k km it's driven it's had about $8000 in issues (all covered under warranty), interior still looks like new and has held up very well, all around build quality is amazing and factory bose stereo is best in class IMO. Unreal in winter.

I recently sold my g37x, the only maintenance it ever needed was routine and it had 150xxx km, it's more fun to drive then the a4 and way quicker but build quality is cheap in comparison, leather, paint, etc. is all just plain cheap in comparison, even the bose stereo in the infiniti is worse. BUTTTTTT, it's way more reliable and cheaper to maintain. AWD system in the infiniti is worse also.

I've also owned an m45, even though the cost of the m45 is double what the a4 costs, the audi is still built of higher quality materials and is more refined. But again, the m45 was sold at 150ish k km and no issues outside of regular maintenance.

My 350z, no issues outside of regular maintenance.

No matter what the fanboys say, audi's aren't exactly known for reliability. One of the ones I drove today had the Bang&Olufsen system in it. All I can say is damn. What prompted you to switch from the G37X to the A4? I'm coming from a RWD Hyundai so I'm sure that the awd and the quality will be a fairly decent step up even to the Infiniti. I like the idea of reliability and lower maintenance costs of the Infiniti for sure.

[ddduke]

I didn't make a change, the a4 is the wife's car and the g/m were my cars. So when I was comparing I had both at the same time and would literally jump from one to the other.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that you get way more bang for your buck out of the Infiniti when it comes to features. Some offer things like dvd, rear reclining seats, cooled seats, things that aren't as common in german counterparts.

[shakalaka]

The VQ engine is very reliable, that's all I can add to the discussion. Never had the G, but my 350Z was a rock. Never had any issues, although I only had it for just under two years. From what I understand they have the same engine. Mine was a pre 2007 some version, so the newer one was supposed to be even better.

As far as Audi and BMW is concerned, all I can say is make sure you have extra $ lying around in case of repairs and maintenance. I've had few different cars, including luxury cars and even the little things like oil changes can add up in terms of $. It's like a saying I was told one, 'if you're going to keep elephants as pets, then you need to get your doors extended.' Doesn't have the same vibe in English, but you get the point.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
This is what I keep telling everybody... I have a 2.0T in my Q5 and it feels like it has about 100hp more than it does. It is bizarre.

I tested the 2011 A4 Avant (or 2010 - right when they changed to the 8 speed). Don't go by the HP figure - go by the torque which is 258. It felt on par with my 2005 Legacy GT.

Also keep in mind that the B8 A4s are way more reliable than any A4 before it, so many people are sharing their experience with the old B7 or earlier A4.

[rage2]

It helps that turbo cars actually make advertised power here. We're all so used to the watered down powerband of NA cars, hopping in a turbo car feels like NAAAAAWS.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by ercchry


you dont replace air suspension with factory shit... great excuse for accuair once it goes :bigpimp:

there is an older S8 for sale too for $13k or something... i love full sized luxury sedans

Accuair is $4k :rofl: I'm still contemplating on putting the Golf on bags. So pricey.

What did the OP decide?


Originally posted by rage2
It helps that turbo cars actually make advertised power here. We're all so used to the watered down powerband of NA cars, hopping in a turbo car feels like NAAAAAWS.

Like mine?

:burnout:

[relyt92]

It looks like I'll probably be going the way of Infiniti when this happens, but it looks like I might be planning on going on a trip soon so I might be delaying this for a little while. As much as I'd love to go with a German car with a turbo I'd like to stick with some more proven reliability.

[clem24]

Originally posted by relyt92
It looks like I'll probably be going the way of Infiniti when this happens, but it looks like I might be planning on going on a trip soon so I might be delaying this for a little while. As much as I'd love to go with a German car with a turbo I'd like to stick with some more proven reliability.

The ironic thing about your statement is that Nissan and Infiniti has always ranked near the bottom for reliability and is among the worst for Japanese brands.

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by clem24


The ironic thing about your statement is that Nissan and Infiniti has always ranked near the bottom for reliability and is among the worst for Japanese brands.

I expected that from Nissan, but not Infiniti (I was under the impression that they were really competetive with Lexus for reliability), but your right (looking at JD power surveys from the past 5 years or so).

Its funny because the early 2000's the quality seemed to be better according to JD Power, but I always felt that the feeling/perception of quality to be poor from those years.

Not to distract from the topic, but how can Porsche consistantly be so high with a car like the Cayanne?

Go figure.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by relyt92
It looks like I'll probably be going the way of Infiniti when this happens, but it looks like I might be planning on going on a trip soon so I might be delaying this for a little while. As much as I'd love to go with a German car with a turbo I'd like to stick with some more proven reliability.

The Germans have been relatively reliable. It's just when they go wrong, they're very expensive to fix.

[relyt92]

Originally posted by clem24


The ironic thing about your statement is that Nissan and Infiniti has always ranked near the bottom for reliability and is among the worst for Japanese brands. I wasn't aware of that, never looked into anything nissan made before. JD power rates the G35 quality as 5/5 where the A4 is 4/5. Both cares get a 3/5 for performance&design, and dependability.