Paradox of choice, what would you choose and why?

[mslbebiz]

Hey guys,

I'm cursed as being a maximizer (vs a satisficer) in my choices and buying a car can be a pain in the ass because of it - I just can't decide. My choices are also all over the place as you'll see haha.

I'm mainly looking for something newer (coming from a mid 2000's BMW 3 series), that is sporty and really fun to drive with less reliability/maintenance worries than owning an out of warranty German luxury vehicle brings.

What would you buy from this list, and why (taking into consideration the price differences as well, as everyone likes to have more money in their pockets).

In no particular order:

Subaru BRZ ($26k, brand new)

Fiat 500 Abarth ($22k, brand new)

VW Golf GTI ($20k, warranty remaining)

Nissan 370Z Roadster Touring Sport ($28k, waranty remaining)

Lexus IS-F (High $30's, little warranty remaining)

I'm looking for the best QUALITY of drive, vs quantity. In other words, some vehicles may be much more impressive on paper but don't amount to the same pleasure of driving as something that may be much smaller or less powerful.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Winter considerations? I've not seen a 370Z (4.7" between road and car) driving around in our Calgary winter. The Subaru (studded would be interesting) or the Lexus IMO, both with extra winter tires you're good for year round use. The VW and Fiat will not be as trouble free as the Japanese vehicles, the fun factor would be there though. I'd say the only vehicle of the bunch I could live with day to day would be the Lexus.

I was in a Z convertible last year, it did not have any cup holders at all. Just an FYI. I would not worry much about the BRZ and the small rear seats, a real grown-assed adult ought to have their own car rather than sitting in the backseat of your car. Get a rack for snowboards, etc. Your friends will gladly swap vehicles if you need a bigger ride for the day or weekend.

[mslbebiz]

I see 350Z's all the time around here, and other big power RWD cars like Jaguar XKR's, Porsche 911's, Caymans, Boxsters, BMW M3's, and even the occasional Corvettes up here in E-town. Maybe we're just braver, or dumber. If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough right lol. I've had no problem in my 3 series though, and favor RWD even in winter. So much better balance.

[max_boost]

BRZ. I like new.

[mslbebiz]

If it makes any difference, I drive only 20k round trip to work downtown daily, and ride my cafe bike a lot of the spring/summer/fall days as well.

[RX_EVOLV]

Are those prices right? If you are buying brand new from dealer you will need to consider PDI/Freight and taxes as well.

For example, a quick check to subaru.ca shows that a basic BRZ (no options) with tax is $30,439 off the lot.

A $20K GTI, you are probably looking at ~2010 model? which in that case there might be little to no warranty remaining, unless you are buying CPO, which you will need to account to dealers fee + tax (+ markup)

Same for the Lexus. The cheapest ISF on kijiji right now is $39k, and it's a 2008 so you won't have warranty on it..

[mslbebiz]

Yeah, the prices are all right. The BRZ and Abarth would be + GST/dealer fees. The GTI is a 2011 with around 35k of warranty remaining. The ISF I'm looking at has warranty until the end of '14.

[Skyline_Addict]

I daily drive my Subaru BRZ and with winter tires (non-studded) I have had no problems in winter so far. My car is otherwise stock so I have not had any issues with ground clearance too, at least where I travel. I've only been stuck once, but that was when I accidentally backed up into a huge snow drift right outside my house. Traction control is helpful but when it is super icy out you need to be more careful, but the same goes with any car. I think if I upgraded to Hakkas or got studded tires next season, it would make a huge difference. Needless to say the car is a blast to drive in the winter and you can definitely have some fun with it.

As far as driving quality (as you describe it as pleasure), the BRZ/FR-S gets rave reviews for being a driver's car for a reason. Depending on your school or thought, the shitty tires it comes with makes it more or less fun, but the car has a lot of potential to be tailored to your liking without a lot of money (wider tires, suspension, etc.). If you plan to go FI, or anything aftermarket for that matter, the aftermarket support is huge for such a new car and will only grow. There are a dozen FI options available from the industry's most reputable companies.

Maintenance (including oil changes) are at 10k km intervals and is pretty straight forward stuff. Zero issues with my car in the first 12k kms. Last thing to remember is the car is a small, sporty 2+2 so make sure it suits your lifestyle (family, going skiing, etc.) or that you have another vehicle for that. If you're counting on Subaru or STi to release a factory turbo version of the car, I wouldn't count on that, at least not anytime soon. Everytime I read an article about that, it's nothing I hold my breath for.

From that list, if I were to do it again I would still pick the BRZ and the IS-F would be a close second (if at that price).

[vtec4life]

BRZZZZZ

[M.alex]

Viper w/ winter tires.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Hey guys,

I'm cursed as being a maximizer (vs a satisficer) in my choices and buying a car can be a pain in the ass because of it - I just can't decide. My choices are also all over the place as you'll see haha.

I'm mainly looking for something newer (coming from a mid 2000's BMW 3 series), that is sporty and really fun to drive with less reliability/maintenance worries than owning an out of warranty German luxury vehicle brings.

What would you buy from this list, and why (taking into consideration the price differences as well, as everyone likes to have more money in their pockets).

In no particular order:

Subaru BRZ ($26k, brand new)

Fiat 500 Abarth ($22k, brand new)

VW Golf GTI ($20k, warranty remaining)

Nissan 370Z Roadster Touring Sport ($28k, waranty remaining)

Lexus IS-F (High $30's, little warranty remaining)

I'm looking for the best QUALITY of drive, vs quantity. In other words, some vehicles may be much more impressive on paper but don't amount to as good of a feeling as a driver as something that may be much smaller or less powerful.

I'd buy a BRZ, 370Z or an IS-F. Abarth's suck, A GTI would bore you coming from a 3-series.

An IS-F has the nicest interior out of the 3 IMO so I'd go for that. Plus, it's more useful as a DD than a coupe.

My brother has a BRZ and it's absolutely useless as a 2+2. It's 2 + people with no legs.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
I see 350Z's all the time around here, and other big power RWD cars like Jaguar XKR's, Porsche 911's, Caymans, Boxsters, BMW M3's, and even the occasional Corvettes up here in E-town. Maybe we're just braver, or dumber. If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough right lol. I've had no problem in my 3 series though, and favor RWD even in winter. So much better balance.

Decent point, the the Z has something like 4.7" to work with, my non-Z car has 5.5" and does just fine. Although Z owners here seem opinionated on the inches issue (insert "that's what she said...":

http://forums.nicoclub.com/350z-for-winter-driving-t471766.html

[flipstah]

Actually when I think about it, a cargo box would solve any issues regarding hauling.

If I had to do my purchase again, I would've bought a coupe + cargo box.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by flipstah


I'd buy a BRZ, 370Z or an IS-F. Abarth's suck, A GTI would bore you coming from a 3-series.

An IS-F has the nicest interior out of the 3 IMO so I'd go for that. Plus, it's more useful as a DD than a coupe.

My brother has a BRZ and it's absolutely useless as a 2+2. It's 2 + people with no legs.

Have you driven the Abarth? Just wondering what you're basing that opinion on because I've heard from many people that own or have owned much higher end cars that have more fun driving it than their big supercars. The thing is a blast.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by flipstah


I'd buy a BRZ, 370Z or an IS-F. Abarth's suck, A GTI would bore you coming from a 3-series.

An IS-F has the nicest interior out of the 3 IMO so I'd go for that. Plus, it's more useful as a DD than a coupe.

My brother has a BRZ and it's absolutely useless as a 2+2. It's 2 + people with no legs.

Why would a GTI bore him? It's one of the best all around cars. At $20K depending on options it's been around the block a few times. He's coming from probably an E46 330.

Yea BRZ, don't bother driving anyone in the back but I think it's a cool looking car. Budgetballer approved cause it's super low maintenance, looks good, handles well and decent power to get around town.

[n1zm0]

I don't think i've ever seen an IS-F being driven around in winter, plenty 350Zs and G35 coupes though.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Have you driven the Abarth? Just wondering what you're basing that opinion on because I've heard from many people that own or have owned much higher end cars that have more fun driving it than their big supercars. The thing is a blast.

Personally I think the BRZ and Albarth would be very easy to live with, but I like small cars. We all would love a day of Abarth:

xvZ7g2GjvlY

Gd53A-5bUko

[mslbebiz]

Honestly it's usually just me commuting or joyriding in my vehicle, sometimes with another person in the car. Rarely more than 1 passenger. If I need to haul passengers or anything else, my wife has an SUV as well. My wife understands that my car is for ME haha.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by max_boost


Why would a GTI bore him? It's one of the best all around cars. At $20K depending on options it's been around the block a few times. He's coming from probably an E46 330.

Yea BRZ, don't bother driving anyone in the back but I think it's a cool looking car. Budgetballer approved cause it's super low maintenance, looks good, handles well and decent power to get around town.

The GTI's actually pretty nice, an almost loaded 3dr '11 with leather, sunroof, 6 speed manual and less than 50,000 kms. It also comes with a lifetime powertrain warranty through the dealer network. I was planning to reflash the ECU though and all the VW service horror stories are putting me off.

A reflash on the Abarth is good for around 40hp, and probably none of the service nightmares VW is known for. The Fiat 500's surprisingly have a really strong reliability record too.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by n1zm0
I don't think i've ever seen an IS-F being driven around in winter, plenty 350Zs and G35 coupes though.

They're pretty rare to see in general I think.

[01RedDX]

.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess


Personally I think the BRZ and Albarth would be very easy to live with, but I like small cars. We all would love a day of Abarth:

xvZ7g2GjvlY

Gd53A-5bUko

Thanks. I've seen the first vid but not the BRZ compilation.

I love small cars, too. Good ones are just so much fun to drive, and that is what sports cars are meant to be first and foremost. Probably the reason cars like the original Rabbit GTI are still held in such high regard.

Most fun I ever owned was a '73 Datsun 240Z with triple Webber carbs, exhaust and upgraded wheels and tires. Only about 180hp but at 2500lb the car was a friggin blast!

[Strider]

Coming from a BMW, any reason to not consider a CPO e90/92?

You should be able to get a 335i with 2-3 years of warranty for low 30s, high 20s if you're open to a sedan... and they often have 1.9% financing promos

[flipstah]

Originally posted by max_boost


Why would a GTI bore him? It's one of the best all around cars. At $20K depending on options it's been around the block a few times. He's coming from probably an E46 330.

Yea BRZ, don't bother driving anyone in the back but I think it's a cool looking car. Budgetballer approved cause it's super low maintenance, looks good, handles well and decent power to get around town.

Oh it's a good car, no doubt. Judging by his previous car and the rest of his selection, OP has a bias towards RWD.

[schocker]

I like the GTI, kind of wish I had looked at them instead of getting a TSX. Well built, still under warranty, fun to drive and decent performance and good looks. BRZ would be fun also but I found it to be quite small. I would say GTI or BRZ.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Strider
Coming from a BMW, any reason to not consider a CPO e90/92?

You should be able to get a 335i with 2-3 years of warranty for low 30s, high 20s if you're open to a sedan... and they often have 1.9% financing promos

Not really into a newer 3 series to be honest, mainly due to all the issues these turbo cars have but also I'm just not that fond of them beyond the M3. Most of them are shitty XDrive cars, too. If I was going for a newer BMW, it would be a 128i with M performance package and 6 speed manual or 1M. Arguably the purest driver's cars in their line-up, but rare and hard to find.

[bjstare]

I would absolutely go with the IS-F.

There is also no way I would go for FWD over RWD. I have had a few FWD cars in a row, and I can't stand them now. Even having an LSD makes it much more enjoyable, but still not the same as AWD or RWD for summer or winter fun.

BRZ would be okay. Definitely fun. But for me, there's not much that will compete with a V8 sports sedan. One of them (S4, IS-F, M3, C63) will very likely be my next vehicle.

[austic]

I would go with the Lexus out of the list. Seems the most practical yet least boring.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by cjblair
I would absolutely go with the IS-F.

There is also no way I would go for FWD over RWD. I have had a few FWD cars in a row, and I can't stand them now. Even having an LSD makes it much more enjoyable, but still not the same as AWD or RWD for summer or winter fun.

BRZ would be okay. Definitely fun. But for me, there's not much that will compete with a V8 sports sedan. One of them (S4, IS-F, M3, C63) will very likely be my next vehicle.

I love RWD and definitely prefer it over FWD, but I'm not a RWD zealot. I've honestly liked some of the small FWD Honda's I've had more than my ZHP 3 series, which on paper doesn't make any sense at all. I actually miss them. As good as the BMW is, they were more fun.

The IS-F is a hell of a car though! I've watched and read countless reviews where it hangs with the best of the V8 supercar sedans and in many reviews was even preferred. For me the fact that it even keeps company with these while retaining the stellar Lexus quality and reliability is a big draw.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by austic
I would go with the Lexus out of the list. Seems the most practical yet least boring.

I agree but practicality is overrated haha. I've been known to ride my cafe bike to and from work with as many as 3 bags hanging from me. Backback on my back, laptop bag on one side and messenger bag on the other. Practical, hell no. Fun at all costs, definitely. :D

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I dropped my 135i and bought a BRZ after seeing how much money some of the parts were outside of warranty, even CPO warranty didn't cover any of the stuff on my car that actually failed.

[max_boost]

GTI/Golf most practical out of that grouping.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
I dropped my 135i and bought a BRZ after seeing how much money some of the parts were outside of warranty, even CPO warranty didn't cover any of the stuff on my car that actually failed.

Nice color BRZ, I love red cars. If I was to go that route I'm torn between silver, white and red and leaning towards silver as this deal on the BRZ only pertains to blowout '13's in white, silver or black. Black is not even a consideration for me.

That's a big reason I want to move on from BMW as well. Sucks to hear even CPO warranty doesn't cover that stuff.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Nice color BRZ, I love red cars. If I was to go that route I'm torn between silver, white and red and leaning towards silver as this deal on the BRZ only pertains to blowout '13's in white, silver or black. Black is not even a consideration for me.

Can't stand black. Red was new for 2014 for the BRZ, I took delivery of the first red on in Calgary, I know another user here took delivery of an identical car last week.

I paid cost plus $500 on mine.

[n1zm0]

IS-F as a daily in snow doesn't look like it's very efficient:



We were apprehensive about how the IS F would behave in snow and ice, and by October, we’d fitted our lowrider with four Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 snow tires ($1020). The tires did improve traction, but the car was still a handful in winter. A logbook entry from February: “Even with snow tires, the IS F is awful in snow. It acts like an old-school rear-drive car that’s not on snow tires.”

In winter, our Lexus was often plain scary. It was difficult to get the car moving even in the driver-selectable snow mode, which starts the car off in second gear. When approaching a snowy uphill grade—even a slight one—the F would slip backward, or worse, slip sideways. Also, if snow was deeper than the car’s 4.7-inch ground clearance, its low front end became a clumsy snowplow, and forward motion was more painful than passing a kidney stone.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-lexus-is-f-long-term-road-test-maintenance-and-fuel-costs-page-2


Then again the IS300s also were horrible in the snow even with good winter tires.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by n1zm0
IS-F as a daily in snow doesn't look like it's very efficient:


Then again the IS300s also were horrible in the snow even with good winter tires.

I'm guessing this is coming from Americans who don't spend 6 months a year becoming masters of ice and snow driving like we do. I could drive anything in the winter if it had the ground clearance.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


I'm guessing this is coming from Americans who don't spend 6 months a year becoming masters of ice and snow driving like we do. I could drive anything in the winter if it had the ground clearance.

This.

If you can't drive an ISF, with snow tires, in the winter then GTFO the roads, you suck ass at driving.

[austic]

Depends on your tolerance for getting stuck. My 135i was terrible in the winter. I had studded winters but there were at least a handful of days each year that I would have to get the shovel and kitty litter out of the trunk and dig my car out. Don’t get me wrong I had a blast driving it in the winter drifting around every corner but when the snow got too deep it was game over.

I went with a Dinan 335xi and after a couple of winters of never getting stuck I would never consider a non AWD again as a winter DD.

I know the RWD is fine 95% of the time in winter but my love for snowboarding tends to drag me out in the worst winter condtions in search of powder.

[Laoz]

How are you getting a new BRZ for 26K? Honestly, I have a 2011 GTI, I love it and yea it goes quick with a tune, but sometimes I wish i bought the BRZ.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by M.alex


This.

If you can't drive an ISF, with snow tires, in the winter then GTFO the roads, you suck ass at driving.

:winter: agreed..my gfs accent with all seasons is better than my camaro with studded winters and I still manage.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Laoz
How are you getting a new BRZ for 26K? Honestly, I have a 2011 GTI, I love it and yea it goes quick with a tune, but sometimes I wish i bought the BRZ.

I was going to say something as well! Hook me up if you can get a BRZ all in for $26,000!

[01RedDX]

.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Laoz
How are you getting a new BRZ for 26K? Honestly, I have a 2011 GTI, I love it and yea it goes quick with a tune, but sometimes I wish i bought the BRZ.

Why, what leaves you wanting the BRZ?

[austic]

maybe he is getting the InRich/Roselover deal?

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by austic
Depends on your tolerance for getting stuck. My 135i was terrible in the winter. I had studded winters but there were at least a handful of days each year that I would have to get the shovel and kitty litter out of the trunk and dig my car out. Don’t get me wrong I had a blast driving it in the winter drifting around every corner but when the snow got too deep it was game over.

I went with a Dinan 335xi and after a couple of winters of never getting stuck I would never consider a non AWD again as a winter DD.

I know the RWD is fine 95% of the time in winter but my love for snowboarding tends to drag me out in the worst winter condtions in search of powder.


Originally posted by austic
maybe he is getting the InRich/Roselover deal?

I wonder how many people that complain about getting stuck with RWD don't put any sandbags in the trunk? 2 or 3 of these over your rear wheels makes a big difference. So does a full tank of fuel vs running empty. If I was always going on mountain trips I'd probably consider an AWD or something else, too, but I mostly city drive.

No idea what the InRich/Roselover deal is.

The BRZ's actually $27k for fully-loaded, and the GTI's closer to $21k - I just did some quick recall when I posted the thread. As I mentioned earlier, this is plus GST and dealer fees. The ISF is actually less expensive than I originally listed though, they were willing to negotiate a little more.

Surprisingly little love for the 370Z Roadster.

[Laoz]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Why, what leaves you wanting the BRZ?
This might sound silly, but on my daily commute I'd prefer to have fun driving and honing around in a light, rwd car vs in my GTI. That doesn't mean I'm going to be doing 1080 rockstar gangster drifts or anything like that, but the lightweight-ness and rwd seems like it would be suited for what I want out of a daily driver.

Not saying the GTI isn't fun, it has instant torque, corners well and has all the creature comfort you'd want in a daily, like leather heated seats, a sunroof, bluetooth audio/calling and not to mention the practicality of a hatch.

But something in the back of my mind says that I could definitely sacrifice all those things for a fun driving, pursuit (a bit slow) sports car.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Laoz
But something in the back of my mind says that I could definitely sacrifice all those things for a fun driving, pursuit (a bit slow) sports car.

Tested 0-60 times are low 6's for the BRZ, as good as the GTI except at elevation which Calgary definitely gets affected by more than Edmonton. Not a slow car, but by today's bloated paper-performer standards it does seem that way.

[Laoz]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Tested 0-60 times are low 6's for the BRZ, as good as the GTI except at elevation which Calgary definitely gets affected by more than Edmonton. Not a slow car, but by today's bloated paper-performer standards it does seem that way.

By slow I meant low torque:poosie:

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Surprisingly little love for the 370Z Roadster.

Not surprisingly at all. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them on the road (or 370Z in general). They're ugly as sin and heavy.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Laoz


By slow I meant low torque:poosie:

Yeah, power is delivered in a different way. For some this is more exciting because you get to (read: have to) wring the engine out to get the best out of it, and there's a certain satisfaction in that just like there is with very different powertrains that deliver gobs of low end torque (which ironically seem to run out of puff at the top end).

[Laoz]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Yeah, power is delivered in a different way. For some this is more exciting because you get to (read: have to) wring the engine out to get the best out of it, and there's a certain satisfaction in that just like there is with very different powertrains that deliver gobs of low end torque (which ironically seem to run out of puff at the top end).

Nice job, beautifully said. I've never had the pleasure to drive a car that needs to be driven like that.

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict


Not surprisingly at all. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them on the road (or 370Z in general). They're ugly as sin and heavy.

Really? They're smaller, lighter, more powerful and better handling than they car they replaced and a better car in virtually every way. Curb weight's around 3,200lb, adding roughly 65lb for the roadster. I wouldn't say they're ugly, especially with the top down. In fact most reviews talk about what a great looking car it is :dunno:

[mslbebiz]

Originally posted by Laoz


Nice job, beautifully said. I've never had the pleasure to drive a car that needs to be driven like that.

Thanks! For as many people that love it, there's just as many that hate it. I'd be interested to hear what you think coming from the GTI.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
Not surprisingly at all. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them on the road (or 370Z in general). They're ugly as sin and heavy.

They sure are imo as well..lady @ work has a 370Z vert in white with a cranberry interior..and an auto trans :barf:

[Laoz]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


Thanks! For as many people that love it, there's just as many that hate it. I'd be interested to hear what you think coming from the GTI.

Well, if I happen to ever drive the BRZ or any other car like it, I'll let ya know:D

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


They sure are imo as well..lady @ work has a 370Z vert in white with a cranberry interior..and an auto trans :barf:

which certainly aligns with the demographic a car like that commands, at least in this part of the world.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

So my BRZ just finished with 3M and there is a HUGE paint defect that looks like they fixed transit damage. 43km on the car, let's see how Centaur handles this.

[HiSpec]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
So my BRZ just finished with 3M and there is a HUGE paint defect that looks like they fixed transit damage. 43km on the car, let's see how Centaur handles this.


What kind of defect?

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
So my BRZ just finished with 3M and there is a HUGE paint defect that looks like they fixed transit damage. 43km on the car, let's see how Centaur handles this.

Hope it gets cleared up. I bought my car at Scott Subaru in Red Deer because I haven't heard the greatest things about the Calgary dealerships.

[soloracer]

Interesting to me that nobody is talking about resale values and the potential loss of revenue when talking about the cost of a car. Then there is fuel economy, tires, insurance, etc. You should be looking at the total cost of ownership.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Laoz
How are you getting a new BRZ for 26K? Honestly, I have a 2011 GTI, I love it and yea it goes quick with a tune, but sometimes I wish i bought the BRZ.

There was a black one at Subaru Calgary in the showroom for under $26g just before Christmas.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
which certainly aligns with the demographic a car like that commands, at least in this part of the world.

51 years old & "young at heart?"

[mslbebiz]

Weird, I've never seen the Z as anything but a solid sports car, with the 370Z representing the best iteration yet. I definitely don't get an old lady vibe from it lol.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
Weird, I've never seen the Z as anything but a solid sports car, with the 370Z representing the best iteration yet. I definitely don't get an old lady vibe from it lol.

If you saw the one I'm referring to, with said older lady in it you would haha. It's sad because it's a great engine. Too bad it's an auto and a really ugly vert.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[A2VR6]

I'd say BRZ or the GTI. Not a fan of the 370z styling at all. The ISF is a great car if you don't mind auto only but only 2010+ when they revised the suspension. The 2008s ride absolutely horribly... Much too stiff.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by A2VR6
I'd say BRZ or the GTI. Not a fan of the 370z styling at all. The ISF is a great car if you don't mind auto only but only 2010+ when they revised the suspension. The 2008s ride absolutely horribly... Much too stiff. 2008-2010 have the same suspension, 2010 adds LSD, 2011+ has the new suspension.

I drove my IS F in the winter just fine. I've seen a few other ones in calgary that are winter driven as well.

I doubt many people who have posted in this thread have driven the IS F but it's not what I consider to be a fun to drive car. If you want a sporty, fun to drive car there are only two worth considering: BRZ/FRS and Fiesta ST.

[mslbebiz]

Is the Abarth getting no attention because no one's driven it? Considering all the votes the BRZ has gotten, I know many BRZ/FRS owners have moved into Abarth's instead from reading the various forums so that has to count for something.


Originally posted by gpomp
2008-2010 have the same suspension, 2010 adds LSD, 2011+ has the new suspension.

I drove my IS F in the winter just fine. I've seen a few other ones in calgary that are winter driven as well.

I doubt many people who have posted in this thread have driven the IS F but it's not what I consider to be a fun to drive car. If you want a sporty, fun to drive car there are only two worth considering: BRZ/FRS and Fiesta ST.

I'd have to say I would pick an Abarth every time over a Fiesta ST.

Surprised to see you say the ISF isn't fun to drive! All the reviews I've seen are filled with shit eating grins and talk about how fun it is to drive.

[msommers]

The Abarth would be fun as hell in the summer. Not sure how it would hold up in the winter though.

[Heru-Farukon]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


Can't stand black. Red was new for 2014 for the BRZ, I took delivery of the first red on in Calgary, I know another user here took delivery of an identical car last week.

I paid cost plus $500 on mine.

That would be me :)
Honestly I'm loving the car right now even with factory summers on, just came back tonight after a bit of hooning in an industrial area lol

IMO I do feel it needs a little more power. But for what it is design and created for, it's a great car and looks sooo good


Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
So my BRZ just finished with 3M and there is a HUGE paint defect that looks like they fixed transit damage. 43km on the car, let's see how Centaur handles this.

That's why I did my own 3M and nit pick the shit out of the car when I went to the dealership
I know exactly what they'll do. They'll rip off the 3M of location, lay on touch up paint, shave off the excess, and redo.

Too bad the only damage I got was on the spoiler and received paint this evening

[DeleriousZ]

Both the Fiesta ST and Fiat Abarth have electronic versions of LSD's (torque vectoring or something) I believe.. should make them at least semi-useful in snowy conditions?

After all the insanely positive reviews the fiesta st is getting i'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned. I'm surprised the focus st hasn't been mentioned as well, they can be had for under or around 30 used now I think.

[Heru-Farukon]

The ST vehicles are great and some of the users here work for Ford and maybe able to get you a discount.

Fun little cars as well but never liked the front ends of them lol

[Redlined_8000]

I would go with the BRZ or the IS-F. Test them both see how you like them. The 370Z roadster is just an ugly machine.... The Fiat is fun im sure but it is not built for life in Canada, to small, better to get a civic over a fiat. The VW is a decent choice also.
My problem with the BRZ was that it just felt like a toy to me. Not necessarily a car... If that makes sense. It is a fun little machine tho.

[Heru-Farukon]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000

My problem with the BRZ was that it just felt like a toy to me. Not necessarily a car... If that makes sense. It is a fun little machine tho.

+1 this is pretty true. Maybe that's the reason on why we bought them.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Heru-Farukon


+1 this is pretty true. Maybe that's the reason on why we bought them.

I sold my beater so now it's my daily, it's as close as I can get to a go kart for the road in my price range, I love it.

[pheoxs]

Shameless plug, I'm selling my FR-S in the near future (mostly waiting for snow to melt since its parked all winter). Would come with BBS LM wheels / 3m / tint / otherwise stock.

Also as for the 26k BRZ, not sure about that. Mine was '27k' new but with taxes and delivery and such it was 31k

[mslbebiz]

The BRZ's are '13 close-outs basically, hence the discount.

Don't really like the Fords, styling sucks - just don't see myself behind the wheel of one. Maybe if the Focus ST was 3 door, but I can't stand the 5 door design.

[EM2FTL]

Surprised the S2K and RX8 haven't come up as options yet. I was in same boat as OP and almost pulled the trigger on a 2011 370z with very low kms, but it just didn't feel right. 10 minutes in an RX-8 (after a few traffic circle rips) and I was in love with the driving dynamics, this car is just so easy to drive at speed. LSD + 9k redline makes for one awesome winter drift car :love:

[bjstare]

Originally posted by EM2FTL
Surprised the S2K and RX8 haven't come up as options yet. I was in same boat as OP and almost pulled the trigger on a 2011 370z with very low kms, but it just didn't feel right. 10 minutes in an RX-8 (after a few traffic circle rips) and I was in love with the driving dynamics, this car is just so easy to drive at speed. LSD + 9k redline makes for one awesome winter drift car :love:

I thought about getting one for a while, but don't those have self-destructing engines and common flooding problems? Are there certain years that are better than others?

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Heru-Farukon
+1 this is pretty true. Maybe that's the reason on why we bought them.

You bought one too?? Looking forward to seeing both of them at the Wed meets. Always preferred the BRZ over the FRS :drool:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


You bought one too?? Looking forward to seeing both of them at the Wed meets. Always preferred the BRZ over the FRS :drool:

We both have the exact same car as it turns out lol.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by cjblair


I thought about getting one for a while, but don't those have self-destructing engines and common flooding problems? Are there certain years that are better than others?

Flooding is only an issue if you cold start it and shut it off again without moving the car - I've done it once when the car wouldn't start (not plugged in) in -40 weather and it required pulling the fuel pump fuse and cranking the car over for about a minute. Car started up fine after that.

Yes, they do blow up... but finding one with a recent re-build at a stupidly cheap price is easy. I've got the rotary master of AB ready to rebuild once this one goes again - looking at around $1,500 + labour if you don't do it through a dealer. For me it was a no-brainer because the RX-8 was $18K less than the 370z - plenty of money left over for a rebuild kit.

The biggest downside i'm seeing is fuel consumption - i'm doing all downtown city/river valley driving with lots of stop and go and it's pretty brutal on gas.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
We both have the exact same car as it turns out lol.

Alright then..let's see who can out-mod who!! :poosie:

[M.alex]

Originally posted by EM2FTL


Flooding is only an issue if you cold start it and shut it off again without moving the car - I've done it once when the car wouldn't start (not plugged in) in -40 weather and it required pulling the fuel pump fuse and cranking the car over for about a minute. Car started up fine after that.

Yes, they do blow up... but finding one with a recent re-build at a stupidly cheap price is easy. I've got the rotary master of AB ready to rebuild once this one goes again - looking at around $1,500 + labour if you don't do it through a dealer. For me it was a no-brainer because the RX-8 was $18K less than the 370z - plenty of money left over for a rebuild kit.

The biggest downside i'm seeing is fuel consumption - i'm doing all downtown city/river valley driving with lots of stop and go and it's pretty brutal on gas.

Just what everybody wants in a daily driver - to have to have an engine builder on speed dial :rofl:

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by M.alex


Just what everybody wants in a daily driver - to have to have an engine builder on speed dial :rofl:

Haha, fair enough. I didn't really get why people are so into rotaries (despite helping to build and then race an NA FC for Chump Car) until I got this thing. The sound and feel as you rev up to 9k are unlike any other car i've driven, and if that means having Conroy on speed-dial, so be it. Plus every time I park I can't help but turn around and stare, and I didn't even think these cars looked good prior to owning one. Love is blind I guess ;)

http://i.imgur.com/IFtIKMP.jpg

[bjstare]

Originally posted by M.alex


Just what everybody wants in a daily driver - to have to have an engine builder on speed dial :rofl:

:werd:

EM2's post pretty much re-assured that I will never buy an RX-8. I can understand loving a car and spending a little more on maintenance (i.e. something german), but buying a car where you know the engine is on a limited, and short, lifespan seems crazy to me. And you can't cold start it, then shut it off again without it flooding?? :rofl:

Owning one of those, that's dedication. haha

[mslbebiz]

RX8 is not for me for a number of reasons. S2000 would be nice as I've always wanted one, but there's pretty much nothing for sale out there.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by EM2FTL
http://i.imgur.com/IFtIKMP.jpg

They are great looking cars imo..especially with those wheels. And the rotary is like nothing else but I'd be
too worried to take it out on a 1400 km roadtrip..unlike an LSx *cough swap it!* :D

[mslbebiz]

The latest R3 versions of the RX8 does look pretty sweet, but I just don't think I have the patience to live with something so quirky, all for an engine I would have rather seen not put in the car to begin with. If this came with a nice 4 cyl turbo it would have been way more successful, and probably still in production.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by EM2FTL
Surprised the S2K and RX8 haven't come up as options yet.

s2Ks are great cars, and IMO more fun and challenging (the additional fun comes from the challenge) to drive than a BRZ/FR-S.

keep in mind they even more raw of a car than the BRZ, and also much less practical. the BRZ is much better suited as a year round car, and not just because it doesn't have a soft top.

also the initial D tax on these cars is still crazy. You're looking at $20k+ if you want anything newer than a 2005 model. $30k+ if you want a CR.

[Xamim]

Both the BRZ and the Abarth have that go-kart feel, one is RWD and the other is FWD. I have friends that drive theirs all year round without any issues. Just make sure you got winters, just like any car.

I don't have experience with the IS-F or the 370z, but I would rate the others as BRZ>Abarth>GTI in terms of fun. The Abarth sounds the best out of the group. A friend of mine with an FRS (same as BRZ) has one of those electric superchargers and got it tuned by Toma. It gave him a decent bump in power, he says the car is perfect now.

[DeleriousZ]

20b swapped rx8 would be amazing :D

[faiz999]

id probs get the brz or the gti...but i have not driven either.

brz seems like more fun but the power at this elevation might be underwhelming.

[vengie]

The GTI sounds like the best choice to me, great all around DD, comfortable, easily tuned.

[mr2mike]

Jeremy Clarkson would say GTI over the BRZ by far.
But Top Gear is GTI fanboy crazy.

[Ca_Silvia13]

That and the BRZ/FRS is slow. I don't get why they are so damn popular.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by mr2mike
Jeremy Clarkson would say GTI over the BRZ by far.
But Top Gear is GTI fanboy crazy.

Actually Clarkson would probably go for a BRZ over the new 7th gen GTi, he loved the GT86 and even named it his car of the year for 2012 and also I recall in one of his specials recently he was dissapointed that the Golf would not allow you to fully disable traction control/stability control iirc.

[max_boost]

^^^

So would Khryon. Where he go? :D

[guessboi]

I would say GTI or BRZ
Probably would skip the 370 roadster if you are driving this vehicle year round.

At least you know insurance is a not factor of the decision. :thumbsup:

[EM2FTL]

This forum needs a multi-quote function..

Hallowed - LSx swap would be a dream... funds to make it happen are also in dreamland lol. From what little reading i've done I know that swapping these cars is a pain in the ass though, same with going turbo on the Renesis.

Skyline - agreed the S2K's are holding their value a bit too well up here in Canada. I wouldn't go AP2 though, would much prefer the raw/twitchier AP1 car which you can get a decent example of for around $15k. My issue when I test-drove one was how cramped you are inside that car though - i'm only 6'0 and still felt very tight in there. That F20C though... hnghh.

I took a manual BRZ on the downhill in Edmonton this fall (salesman was OK with me bagging it, +1 for him), and drove an auto FR-S for a week this December (friend asked me to car-sit for her). While the handling feels good and the manual gearbox is decent, I couldn't get over the completely underwhelming power and the cheap-feeling interior. If i'm going to pay $30K for a sports car, it shouldn't look like the interior came from 1998, and it should have more than 200hp. If it made somewhere around 250 it would be a lot easier to get over the interior shortcomings, but I guess we'll have to wait and see if a hotter factory version ever comes out.

The other thing I noticed while snow-drifting the auto car is hard to capture exactly.. but it just didn't feel controlled with the tail out in the same way that my RX-8 does. I felt like I really had to be on the ball when sliding that car or i'd end up in a curb or median.

The GTI not being able to disable TC is a massive deal-breaker for me, although so is FWD.