Scion FR-S was hit pretty bad, looking for a total loss

[KRZY403]

Posting for a friend because he does not have an account here.

"My Scion FR-S was parked outside of my house on the street, and was hit by an oncoming car causing extensive damage. The other party admitted fault (thankfully), and my car is now sitting at the body shop. The car was appraised and a repair estimate was given, which I will post below:

http://imageshack.com/a/img706/8854/ayg1.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img163/1511/w76q.jpg

The percent of damage to the car's actual cash value is 68% ($15,476.19 in repairs vs. ACV of $22,775.00). There was no frame or motor damage. I'm trying to push this car towards a total loss and am looking for advice on how to do so. The car is also on a lease by the way, if that matters.

I've called insurance a few times. My adjuster said it was up to the appraiser at the body shop whether the car was a total loss or not (weird, because I always thought it was up to insurance?). I called the body shop and they said it was definitely up to insurance, so I'm going to call insurance again this week.

Thanks."

[eglove]

Good luck. My fit got rear ended in 2010 and was about 72% of total cost and they (td meloche monnex) at the time still decided to fix my fit. It was near impossible to sell after that accident. I argued and argued with them and they wouldn't budge towards total loss

[Cos]

.

[jacky4566]

If its a lease who cares if its a repair or total loss?
How much time is left on the lease?

[KRZY403]

This is the owner posting now. If it is repaired, giving back the lease is my option. It's just the fact that I was going to buy the car out at the end of the lease, but now I'd have to keep the lease for another 2.5 years, and I'd be making payments toward something I'm not keeping. I'd end up just getting another FR-S.

[rizfarmer]

Originally posted by KRZY403
This is the owner posting now. If it is repaired, giving back the lease is my option. It's just the fact that I was going to buy the car out at the end of the lease, but now I'd have to keep the lease for another 2.5 years, and I'd be making payments toward something I'm not keeping. I'd end up just getting another FR-S.


So be thankful you leased, give the car back in two years, and look forward to a new car at that time. If you wanted to keep the car you would have bought it.

A good example of why leasing is the best way to buy a new car.

If you put money down on your lease then it makes the decision a little tougher.... But I don't know why you would put cash down on a lease.

[rage2]

Drive the shit out of the car for 2.5 years. It goes back and is someone else's problem after. If anything, you'll have way more fun not worrying about babying the car.

[KRZY403]

Thanks for the replies. And yeah, I saw that one thing as a plus rage2.

[spikerS]

The only way you are going to convince them to write it off is to find ways to devalue the car. Find comparables for less on Kijiji, auto trader, etc. Point out flaws from before the accident, all that stuff you like to keep quiet.

If you can devaule it enough, they will write it off. But this can be a catch-22 as well. Because if they still decide to fix it, they will base future valuations on the car from this one...

But yeah, because it is a lease, who cares. drive it like you stole it.

[MGCM]

think of it this way, in 2.5years we will have a BR-Z STi and hopefully a comparable example of the FR-S.........once u have driven your FRS for 2.5 more years you will be ready for more power and then its an easy choice :thumbsup:

[Benny]

Originally posted by MGCM
think of it this way, in 2.5years we will have a BR-Z STi and hopefully a comparable example of the FR-S.........once u have driven your FRS for 2.5 more years you will be ready for more power and then its an easy choice :thumbsup:

Exactly my train of thought. Beat the shit out of it for 2.5 more years then give it back and get a BRZ STi.

[jdmXSI]

Make sure they check to see if the block was cracked, it is not uncommon for that to happen on subies.

[rage2]

Originally posted by jdmXSI
Make sure they check to see if the block was cracked, it is not uncommon for that to happen on subies.
They'll find it in the repair.

When my bro crashed my E55, at first they were going to repair it. But when they started work on it, they realized the engine was toast, and that was enough to write it off.

[jdmXSI]

You are right, in most cases it is caught. I only brought it up because a similar situation happened where the estimator did not catch it, the body shop who was repairing the car and noticed a crack in the block. By that time it was too late as they were almost done with the repairs and had too much invested to not replace the engine. Never hurts to ask especially if they are looking for it to be a write off.

[amear]

Originally posted by Benny


Beat the shit out of it for 2.5 more years then give it back and get a BRZ STi.

[Masked Bandit]

I don't really have a frame of reference to work with here but what is a brand new FR-S worth to get off the lot?

[rage2]

About $30k out the door, taxes, PDI everything on a completely base model.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
I don't really have a frame of reference to work with here but what is a brand new FR-S worth to get off the lot?

Mine was 30.5k$ off the lot without any of their BS dealership addons.

[bignerd]

Was going to say I didn't really think you had any opinion or say in whether the car was going to be written off or not lol..... totally up to the insurance company and to whoever they have review the appraisal.

If they haven't put the car on a lift yet or started taking parts off there is still a chance they could find more damage and they may still write it off.

Our insurance company waffled back and forth for 2.5 months and even ordered parts for our car assuming they were going to replace it (have fun sending those back lol) then ended up writing it off anyhow. Insurance companies don't know what the hell they are doing, they told us at first $3500 damage, then it was $8000, $11000, $19500, $24500, final number was $34500 I think.

Are you trying to push for them to write it off because you have replacement value insurance on this and would come out a little ahead money wise?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by bignerd
Was going to say I didn't really think you had any opinion or say in whether the car was going to be written off or not lol..... totally up to the insurance company and to whoever they have review the appraisal.

If they haven't put the car on a lift yet or started taking parts off there is still a chance they could find more damage and they may still write it off.

Our insurance company waffled back and forth for 2.5 months and even ordered parts for our car assuming they were going to replace it (have fun sending those back lol) then ended up writing it off anyhow. Insurance companies don't know what the hell they are doing, they told us at first $3500 damage, then it was $8000, $11000, $19500, $24500, final number was $34500 I think.

Are you trying to push for them to write it off because you have replacement value insurance on this and would come out a little ahead money wise?

I believe it is because he leased the vehicle with intentions of buying it out and the end of the lease. However now that it's damaged he wouldn't, but he's still stick with the lease for another 2.5 years. If it was written off he could start a new lease with an undamaged car

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by bignerd
Was going to say I didn't really think you had any opinion or say in whether the car was going to be written off or not lol.....

A car I had years ago was involved in a rear end collision. When I went to the shop to get the repair estimate, as the guy was inspecting it, he asked if I wanted it written off or not, lol.

Mind you this was a 15 year old car, not a brand new one.

[CapnCrunch]

I'm not an expert, but doesn't $15K seem a little optimistic to repair that?

[colinxx235]

^

I've found in the past (twice now in our family) that vehicles first estimates were rather low and sitting near the write off mark.

And as repairs commenced, suddenly new unexpected damages/repairs came up. Pushing the vehicle to the point of where it should have been written off. But because of the amount already invested into the repairs the cars weren't.
I know the insurance company was not pleased, and neither were we.

[Perfect Dark]

Originally posted by jdmXSI
You are right, in most cases it is caught. I only brought it up because a similar situation happened where the estimator did not catch it, the body shop who was repairing the car and noticed a crack in the block. By that time it was too late as they were almost done with the repairs and had too much invested to not replace the engine. Never hurts to ask especially if they are looking for it to be a write off.

That sounds familiar...

Unfortunately I've been through this process a few times now and in every single instance the original estimate was nowhere close to what the final bill ended up being.

1) Original quote $9000 Final bill $27000 Should have been written off but see the above quote as to why it wasn't
2) Original quote $7000 Final bill $13000
3) Original quote $1500 Final bill $$3500
4) Original quote $3500 Got up to $6800 and then written off
5) Original quote $12000 Got up to $18000 and then written off

That's a shit ton of damage, I would hazard to guess that the costs will add up pretty quickly once they start taking things apart.

Good luck.

[98type_r]

Originally posted by colinxx235
^



And as repairs commenced, suddenly new unexpected damages/repairs came up. Pushing the vehicle to the point of where it should have been written off. But because of the amount already invested into the repairs the cars weren't.
I know the insurance company was not pleased, and neither were we.

This isn't the first I've heard of this. It almost seems as if the body shops aren't looking out for their own interests first. Get the approval to start work from insurance, and then the bill goes up.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by pheoxs


Mine was 30.5k$ off the lot without any of their BS dealership addons.

?? Mine was 28,985.25, GST included (south pointe)

OP - body shops under-estimate to get the work - then find more things to fix. Get a quote from another place like Supreme or Coachworks and see what someone not hungry for work will charge.

But +10 on the above, it's a lease so who cares what they do.

[max_boost]

Had a similar scenario with my RSX back in 2004. No motor or frame damage just cosmetic everything. Repair bill was around 70% of market value.

And that's why you lease lol rent it, drive it, give it back.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by rage2
About $30k out the door, taxes, PDI everything on a completely base model.

Less than that I'm pretty sure, my BRZ Sport Tech was $31350 out the door, and the FRS is about $4k cheaper I think?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by Khyron


?? Mine was 28,985.25, GST included (south pointe)

OP - body shops under-estimate to get the work - then find more things to fix. Get a quote from another place like Supreme or Coachworks and see what someone not hungry for work will charge.

But +10 on the above, it's a lease so who cares what they do.

There is two options for the sound system? I'd have to look at the paperwork. Thinking about it now I'm almost wondering if it wasn't 29 and the 30.5k was with interest if I didn't pay it out. Looks to be about right actually with my interest/term they originally offered.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I've always seen situations like this as a major advantage to new leased cars.

- Car gets into an accident which will make it virtually un-sellable later? No problem if you give it back to the dealer. I personally would never touch a vehicle that has even been in a fairly minor accident that I knew about, nevermind a near write off.

- You can bag the living sh*t out of the car while you own it, enjoy it to the fullest, and give it back to the dealer. Dealer has to take it back, and it will be under warranty if anything fails while you own it.

[guessboi]

Damn the BRZ and FRS are so inexpensive. :burnout:
I would talk to the adjustor and ask them to write it off if possible. That is a significant amount of damage.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by KRZY403
Posting for a friend because he does not have an account here.

"My Scion FR-S was parked outside of my house on the street, and was hit by an oncoming car causing extensive damage. The other party admitted fault (thankfully), and my car is now sitting at the body shop. The car was appraised and a repair estimate was given, which I will post below:

http://imageshack.com/a/img706/8854/ayg1.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img163/1511/w76q.jpg

The percent of damage to the car's actual cash value is 68% ($15,476.19 in repairs vs. ACV of $22,775.00). There was no frame or motor damage. I'm trying to push this car towards a total loss and am looking for advice on how to do so. The car is also on a lease by the way, if that matters.

I've called insurance a few times. My adjuster said it was up to the appraiser at the body shop whether the car was a total loss or not (weird, because I always thought it was up to insurance?). I called the body shop and they said it was definitely up to insurance, so I'm going to call insurance again this week.

Thanks."

I'm going to go with Rage's number of $30,000 to get a new one out the door. Assuming that is more or less accurate, here's why the insurance company will repair instead of write-off in this case.

Right now they are looking at $15,000 - $16,000 and you are comparing that to the ACV value of $22,775. Using those numbers you're pretty darn close to a write-off. HOWEVER, $22,775 ISN'T THE RIGHT NUMBER. Being that this vehicle is a 2013 I'm going to assume that the broker that wrote the policy was smart enough to put the 43r endorsement (waiver of depreciation) on the policy. That means if the vehicle is written off in the first 30 months of ownership, the policy holder is covered for the purchase price of their car, not the depreciated value. That means if the insurance company writes the car off they are looking at paying out $30,000, not $22,775. Because of this the insurance company will sink $20,000 or more into fixing this thing because that's still a lot cheaper than kicking out $30,000 to the insured (policy holder).

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I've always seen situations like this as a major advantage to new leased cars.

- Car gets into an accident which will make it virtually un-sellable later? No problem if you give it back to the dealer. I personally would never touch a vehicle that has even been in a fairly minor accident that I knew about, nevermind a near write off.

- You can bag the living sh*t out of the car while you own it, enjoy it to the fullest, and give it back to the dealer. Dealer has to take it back, and it will be under warranty if anything fails while you own it. Yep. Imagine if women work the same way. :rofl: :eek:

[guessboi]

Note the insurance company will get some money back for selling this vehicle to salvage if this is written off.
Also the waiver of depreciation coverage can range from 24 months - 60 months depending on your insurance company / special endorsement.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by guessboi
Note the insurance company will get some money back for selling this vehicle to salvage if this is written off.
Also the waiver of depreciation coverage can range from 24 months - 60 months depending on your insurance company / special endorsement.

Yeah mine is 60 months for the BRZ.

[KRZY403]

I spoke to my Toyota Dealership and they said that when the lease is given back, and they see the vehicle has lost value (due to extensive repairs), they'll come up with a figure that I'll have to pay out of my own pocket for the loss in value? Is there some way I can at least claim for this value somehow with insurance so I don't have to worry about this when I give the car back?

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by KRZY403
I spoke to my Toyota Dealership and they said that when the lease is given back, and they see the vehicle has lost value (due to extensive repairs), they'll come up with a figure that I'll have to pay out of my own pocket for the loss in value? Is there some way I can at least claim for this value somehow with insurance so I don't have to worry about this when I give the car back?

I believe that there is an optional and relatively inexpensive insurance that you can get when you lease a vehicle that covers you for stuff like this. Do you have that coveragE? I forgot what it was called.

edit: nvm, that's the waiver of depreciation coverage mentioned above.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by KRZY403
I spoke to my Toyota Dealership and they said that when the lease is given back, and they see the vehicle has lost value (due to extensive repairs), they'll come up with a figure that I'll have to pay out of my own pocket for the loss in value? Is there some way I can at least claim for this value somehow with insurance so I don't have to worry about this when I give the car back?

The concept you're referring to is often called Advanced Depreciation or Diminished Value (or some such variant). As a whole the insurance industry has tried to take a stance that this does not exist and as such there is no specific coverage you can buy to protect yourself from it. However there have been a few isolated cases where people have fought their own insurance providers and won. I would say if you can get the dealership to put their threats in writing, that would give you something to take to the insurance company to protect yourself.

[mboldt]

Originally posted by KRZY403
I spoke to my Toyota Dealership and they said that when the lease is given back, and they see the vehicle has lost value (due to extensive repairs), they'll come up with a figure that I'll have to pay out of my own pocket for the loss in value? Is there some way I can at least claim for this value somehow with insurance so I don't have to worry about this when I give the car back?

This isn't true. Come see me at Stampede and we can see about getting you out of your lease into a 2014.

[KRZY403]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


The concept you're referring to is often called Advanced Depreciation or Diminished Value (or some such variant). As a whole the insurance industry has tried to take a stance that this does not exist and as such there is no specific coverage you can buy to protect yourself from it. However there have been a few isolated cases where people have fought their own insurance providers and won. I would say if you can get the dealership to put their threats in writing, that would give you something to take to the insurance company to protect yourself.

Thanks for your posts, they're very informative.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by max_boost
Yep. Imagine if women work the same way. :rofl: :eek:

Well, while I don't think there are leases, at least there are rentals. :rofl:

[KenKowalski]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


The concept you're referring to is often called Advanced Depreciation or Diminished Value (or some such variant). As a whole the insurance industry has tried to take a stance that this does not exist and as such there is no specific coverage you can buy to protect yourself from it. However there have been a few isolated cases where people have fought their own insurance providers and won. I would say if you can get the dealership to put their threats in writing, that would give you something to take to the insurance company to protect yourself.

FYI, diminished value is recoverable on third-party claims in every state except Michigan. First-party claims are allowed in a few states, Washington, Georgia, Kansas I think...

We recovered almost $10K from the other drivers insurance company after getting an appraisal from a company in Fort Pierce, FL. We did get a previous appraisal from a company in Georgia but that one was based on some formula and the insurance company rejected it. My advice is to use an independent appraiser who establishes diminished value by obtaining dealer quotes vs. formulas or auction results.

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by KenKowalski


FYI, diminished value is recoverable on third-party claims in every state except Michigan. First-party claims are allowed in a few states, Washington, Georgia, Kansas I think...

We recovered almost $10K from the other drivers insurance company after getting an appraisal from a company in Fort Pierce, FL. We did get a previous appraisal from a company in Georgia but that one was based on some formula and the insurance company rejected it. My advice is to use an independent appraiser who establishes diminished value by obtaining dealer quotes vs. formulas or auction results.

FYI, probably 90% of us here are from Canada and that may not be necessarily accurate up here in our frozen waste land, lol.