Beddington bus trap

[supe]

Disclosure I live North of the beddington bus trap.

I really don't see why the beddington bus trap exists especially given the 96th ave connection is now open to deerfoot.

Centre street is a main corridor from down town all the way to Beddington. If you look at the google map of the area, its very inneficient to have traffic routed all way around. The amount of wasted fuel and time makes me cringe.

I did contact the councillor and this is their response:


The idea of re-opening this bus trap has been visited many times over the past years. Residents north of the area want it open and residents south of this area want it to remain closed. While Councillor Stevenson is very much in favour of having it re-opened, requests by our office to re-open it have been repeatedly declined by Transit.

Although I understand the want for decreased traffic through your neighborhood, for me I would offset that with better access to more routes and businesses.

Any thoughts?

[codetrap]

It's closed because the residents along center street there didn't want 40000 cars a day going by in front of their houses. And they were successful in that.

Also, it would require a complete re-engineering of the intersection with Beddington trail. Can you imagine the lineup's that would exist in that neighborhood trying to access Beddington and the north? A proper interchange would have to be built, which would impact the entire neighborhood, otherwise you might as well write off the BRTs.

I think when you add up the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to put a real interchange in there, the cost of the gas to go the extra 1.8km is pretty insane.

[OU812]

Originally posted by codetrap
It's closed because the residents along center street there didn't want 40000 cars a day going by in front of their houses. And they were successful in that.


Yet all the people that live on centre betweeb Beddinton Blvd and downtown have to deal with them anyway.

The # of people this would effect <500

[Q-TIP]

Doesn't stop me from crossing it. You need a wider vehicle.

[Xtrema]

All thanks to improper city design in the 80s.

Who would turn 4 lane Center St into 2 lane residential area?

[revelations]

Originally posted by Q-TIP
Doesn't stop me from crossing it. You need a wider vehicle.

or two wheels ;)

[OU812]

or a dump truck of gravel

[Kijho]

haha yeah 2 wheels :rofl: :rofl:

[codetrap]

Yeah, I usually go through it on my bike too. I suspect it's slightly more than 500 people that would be affected. All the houses directly along that street would be affected, as well as anyone living on the adjacent streets that have only single access to their loops. I think as congestion hit, you'd also see way higher loads going through the the sidestreets back to the Beddington Blvd/Berkshire area.

That's all with just existing traffic amounts. As soon as it becomes known that Center street is a more direct route downtown as a viable alternative to the other routes, we'd see a redistribution of traffic that would increase the load at least threefold.. probably more. That would require additional traffic controls just north of the 4way stop, traffic controls at the little mall... it would drastically change the area, as well as negatively affecting all the communities all the way down to McKnight and beyond.

I think the costs totally outweigh the benefits... right now, using center street is usually quick if you're willing to do the 1.8km detour and endure the McKnight dip... as soon as it changed, center street would be clone of deerfoot and you would lose all benefit to using it that you enjoy now.

[speedog]

Originally posted by supe
Disclosure I live North of the beddington bus trap.

I really don't see why the beddington bus trap exists especially given the 96th ave connection is now open to deerfoot.

Centre street is a main corridor from down town all the way to Beddington. If you look at the google map of the area, its very inneficient to have traffic routed all way around. The amount of wasted fuel and time makes me cringe.

I did contact the councillor and this is their response:



Although I understand the want for decreased traffic through your neighborhood, for me I would offset that with better access to more routes and businesses.

Any thoughts?

So which set of houses would you rather have the city buy - the 21 on the east side or the 19 on the west side?
Could even be all 40.

At let's say $350.000 apiece (maybe conservative?), the CoC would be looking at $6.6-7.5 million just for twenty or so properties alone and another 5-15 million for new infrastructure - get's to be an expensive project.

So that extra 1.8km remains very attractive for the CoC considering that extra 1.8km is all traveled on existing infrastructure that can easily handle those traffic loads.

[ExtraSlow]

Much more e4xpensive than buying those homes would be the improvements to the interchange required to handle the new traffic volume and flow. This would be a very popular route for people going north.
It would also put a lot more traffic on centre street from downtown to beddington, and that road is pretty maxed out already during rush hour.

Big negative effect on transit times too.

I don't see it happening.

[codetrap]

^I hope I don't see it happening... it would suck all the way downtown..

Can you imagine even a 3rd of the traffic from Beddington Trail in the morning diverting down through Center St? It would totally destroy the BRT routes.

[supe]

Ok pretty convincing arguments.

I guess my flaw is I never did get that bike ;)

Its true though, centre street is pretty much maxed out as it is, any additional traffic would would really clog it up.

[speedog]

Some numbers to digest - these are 2011 traffic volumes...

[ExtraSlow]

that's some pretty amazing data. is that in vehicles per day or?

[jwslam]

^ McKnight needs a lot of rework because it's the only way around Nose Hill Park off Deerfoot until you go around the North End.

Ridiculous amount of congestion @ Center & McKnight as well. I fail to see how the bus lane is supposed to help when you have 3 or 4 busses trying to merge back in within a span of half a block.

[speedog]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
that's some pretty amazing data. is that in vehicles per day or?

Per day.

[Cansogo]

Ha Ha
I remember when they built that......For the first few months there were a few tards who thought their ride would fit......Dummies

[spikerS]

personally, I say open it up, just because center street or ave in ANY city or town should be a major thoroughfare.

With any luck, it might take some congestion off the ramp from beddington onto deerfoot. That on ramp between beddington and 64th headed south SUCKS in the morning rush. it is so poorly designed!

[supe]

Originally posted by speedog


At let's say $350.000 apiece (maybe conservative?), the CoC would be looking at $6.6-7.5 million just for twenty or so properties alone and another 5-15 million for new infrastructure - get's to be an expensive project.

So that extra 1.8km remains very attractive for the CoC considering that extra 1.8km is all traveled on existing infrastructure that can easily handle those traffic loads.

No longer advocating but just for the sake of some numbers since you did.

Assuming 10L/100k average of 25k cars, 1.8km and gas price of $1.1, I'm getting just shy of 5k in fuel expenses per day which works out to 1.8M per year. That expensive project will pay itself off pretty quickly. (just using your numbers, I think the interchange would cost much more)

Its not directly on the CoC to save these expenditures but thats a lot of wasted resources.

[syscal]

Originally posted by Cansogo
Ha Ha
I remember when they built that......For the first few months there were a few tards who thought their ride would fit......Dummies

I remember that too, wish we had camera phones back then.



Originally posted by spikers
personally, I say open it up, just because center street or ave in ANY city or town should be a major thoroughfare.

With any luck, it might take some congestion off the ramp from beddington onto deerfoot. That on ramp between beddington and 64th headed south SUCKS in the morning rush. it is so poorly designed!

I think this would ruin the residential area around there. It wouldn't make sense to build all that Beddington Trail complexity to keep traffic out of residential just to use a residential street to alleviate traffic from the major thoroughfare. Poor planning or not, it wouldn't make sense to change it now.

[Maxt]

Surely a dedicated bike lane has to be part of the solution here.

[speedog]

Soooooo we all forgot about this, where's the north central LRT going to run?

That could certainly change everything.

[raceman6135]

Not to derail too much, but anyone have an idea what frequency the remote controlled gate operates on? Asking for a friend ;)

[spikerS]

Originally posted by syscal


I think this would ruin the residential area around there. It wouldn't make sense to build all that Beddington Trail complexity to keep traffic out of residential just to use a residential street to alleviate traffic from the major thoroughfare. Poor planning or not, it wouldn't make sense to change it now.

what is wrong with the greater good?

Upset a relatively small strip of residents, probably under 100 on center street directly, for the 1000's per day that would use that road in their daily commute?

to think, for one commuter:
3.6km trip savings per day x 5 times a week x 52 weeks in a year = 988kms a year this "detour" adds on per year, per vehicle forced to take it.
looking at speedogs picture, that might add ~2000 drivers a day, but it is probably going to be more than that.

so lets call it a savings of 1000kms per car, times that by roughly 2000 cars coming off of beddington, that is 2 million KMs annually not traveled.

With the extra lights, you are adding 5-8 mins a day round trip. which is about 22 hours of travel time a year, per person (not per car) forced to take that detour. Think about it, you lose 1 day of your life, for every year you have to take that detour.

Honestly, it is a fucking joke that it was put in in the first place, and an even bigger one that it remains.

And full disclosure: I have zero vested interest in if it stays or gets opened up. I live near by, but I maybe go that way once every 6 weeks.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Originally posted by raceman6135
Not to derail too much, but anyone have an idea what frequency the remote controlled gate operates on? Asking for a friend ;)

I've seen cops sit there with the gate open waiting for someone to go through and ticket them.

I once had a bus open it, and take the trap anyway, so I tried to go through, the bus saw me trying and swerved back into the gate lane to stop me :rofl:

I used to live in Beddington and would have killed for this to be open, big fucking reason is deerfoot access to get north sucks as it is.

It's as mentioned, the city had no idea how big we were going to get and beddington trail shows it.

[syscal]

Originally posted by spikers


what is wrong with the greater good?

Upset a relatively small strip of residents, probably under 100 on center street directly, for the 1000's per day that would use that road in their daily commute?

to think, for one commuter:
3.6km trip savings per day x 5 times a week x 52 weeks in a year = 988kms a year this &quot;detour&quot; adds on per year, per vehicle forced to take it.
looking at speedogs picture, that might add ~2000 drivers a day, but it is probably going to be more than that.

so lets call it a savings of 1000kms per car, times that by roughly 2000 cars coming off of beddington, that is 2 million KMs annually not traveled.

With the extra lights, you are adding 5-8 mins a day round trip. which is about 22 hours of travel time a year, per person (not per car) forced to take that detour. Think about it, you lose 1 day of your life, for every year you have to take that detour.

Honestly, it is a fucking joke that it was put in in the first place, and an even bigger one that it remains.

And full disclosure: I have zero vested interest in if it stays or gets opened up. I live near by, but I maybe go that way once every 6 weeks.

Personally, I don't buy it. "The greater good" is lowering someone else's property value and quality of life to save a small handful of people 5-8 minutes a day? Sounds like our society in 2014 for sure. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

[spikerS]

Originally posted by syscal


Personally, I don't buy it. &quot;The greater good&quot; is lowering someone else's property value and quality of life to save a small handful of people 5-8 minutes a day? Sounds like our society in 2014 for sure. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

that's a pretty narrow view point.

I looked at buying property there, right on center street a long while back. I found a nice house. Want to know what stopped me putting an offer in?

If they opened up the bus trap.

Now, if I bought that house, I would have done so knowing that there was a risk of it being opened up.

The how is the greater good a ME ME ME ME thing? Do you understand what the greater good is? Inconvenience a few hundred people, versus tens of thousands every week? The money saved by the city, drivers, and commuters?

The ME ME ME ME ME attitude you are referring to would be from the residents that chose to take the risk of buying on center street, which in any other city or town is going to be a heavily used traffic corridor.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by spikers

looking at speedogs picture, that might add ~2000 drivers a day, but it is probably going to be more than that.
I think you've misread those numbers.. it would have to the potential to add 25000 cars a day to center street. That would effectively require the re-engineering of that entire community, which would cost WAY more than it's worth.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/data/traffic_flow_maps/2011_flowmap_city.pdf

[syscal]

Originally posted by spikers

The ME ME ME ME ME attitude you are referring to would be from the residents that chose to take the risk of buying on center street, which in any other city or town is going to be a heavily used traffic corridor.

So their mistake was not assuming that a street named "Centre Street" would not become a major thoroughfare, and only because it's a busy street in other cities?

Note to self, to ensure future value when house hunting, google the street name and see if that particular street might be busy in another city. :thumbsup:

[syscal]

There actually wasn't much out there when they put in the trap. I remember joy driving through a wheat field in a friends car on the way out to the boonies, which was only harvest hills and coventry hills at the time. What is now Country Hills Blvd was a dirt road I think, or at most a run of the mill country road.

!@#$ I'm getting old :(

[spikerS]

Originally posted by codetrap
I think you've misread those numbers.. it would have to the potential to add 25000 cars a day to center street. That would effectively require the re-engineering of that entire community, which would cost WAY more than it's worth.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/data/traffic_flow_maps/2011_flowmap_city.pdf
I don't think so. Looking at the map, I see 52000 cars on beddington, reducing to 50000 merging onto deerfoot after. But, if that was open, I am sure there would be more than 2000 more cars that would take advantage of that.


Originally posted by syscal


So their mistake was not assuming that a street named &quot;Centre Street&quot; would not become a major thoroughfare, and only because it's a busy street in other cities?

Note to self, to ensure future value when house hunting, google the street name and see if that particular street might be busy in another city. :thumbsup:

Forrest for the trees man.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by syscal


Personally, I don't buy it. &quot;The greater good&quot; is lowering someone else's property value and quality of life to save a small handful of people 5-8 minutes a day? Sounds like our society in 2014 for sure. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

Like everyone in Cranston who's vehicle traffic has doubled now that you can't access it from Stoney properly forcing traffic to cut through residential?

City doesn't give a fuck about residential property value if it means improved infrastructure, as they rightly shouldn't.

[syscal]

Originally posted by spikers
Forrest for the trees man.

I'm biased, I grew up around there in my teens and spent a load of time around that mall because of the Boston Pizza, video store, etc.

But, I moved to the SW off Sarcee. I didn't know what I was missing.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
Soooooo we all forgot about this, where's the north central LRT going to run?

That could certainly change everything.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/planning/north-central-lrt.php

Be I would guess the Nose Creek line would be cheapest to build if this ever get built.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Xtrema
http://www.calgarytransit.com/planning/north-central-lrt.php

Be I would guess the Nose Creek line would be cheapest to build if this ever get built.

Yeah but Centre street would make the most sense with respect to placement.

Anyhow back on topic, that Centre Street vehicle trap will remain as is for a long time no different then the one up at the end of Edmonton Trail or the one up on North Haven Drive or 66 Ave NW in Dalhousie or the one between Silver Springs and Varsity Estates (some are now just gate controlled but they still perform the same purpose) - as attractive as these potential short-cuts might be to the average joe-blow driver, they are there for a reason and I don't ever remember one being converted to a regular public access route.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by speedog

they are there for a reason

yeah, apparently God does everything for a reason too. :rofl:

[FraserB]

Originally posted by syscal


Personally, I don't buy it. &quot;The greater good&quot; is lowering someone else's property value and quality of life to save a small handful of people 5-8 minutes a day? Sounds like our society in 2014 for sure. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

The city's mandate is not to optimize everyone's property values. If they determine that something is going to optimize traffic flow, reduce congestion or distribute traffic loads, then they are going to do it regardless.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by spikers

I don't think so. Looking at the map, I see 52000 cars on beddington, reducing to 50000 merging onto deerfoot after. But, if that was open, I am sure there would be more than 2000 more cars that would take advantage of that.



Forrest for the trees man.
Take a look at the volume coming off of Harvest Hills and going east/west on Beddington. Then look at the volumes that go east/west on Beddington Blvd. If the city fixed the interchange correctly, pretty much most of that traffic would go straight through center. After all, wouldn't you go through a clover leaf instead of lights?

[MGCM]

Originally posted by Cansogo
Ha Ha
I remember when they built that......For the first few months there were a few tards who thought their ride would fit......Dummies

first few days? lol i see a car in that hole on a daily basis

[spikerS]

Originally posted by codetrap

Take a look at the volume coming off of Harvest Hills and going east/west on Beddington. Then look at the volumes that go east/west on Beddington Blvd. If the city fixed the interchange correctly, pretty much most of that traffic would go straight through center. After all, wouldn't you go through a clover leaf instead of lights?

hey I am not arguing about it being more than 2000 added cars going through there, we are both stating that it is going to be a lot more than 2k. I am thinking it would be more to the tune of 6-7k increase, but more often than not, people will still want to use deerfoot.

[OU812]

Originally posted by supe
While Councillor Stevenson is very much in favour of having it re-opened, requests by our office to re-open it have been repeatedly declined by Transit.


Since when did Transit dictate road policy in Calgary???

[spikerS]

^^I don't think they do, I just think they are being held up as the sacrificial lamb.

[OU812]

maybe the OP should ask Jimbo that?

[supe]

Originally posted by OU812


Since when did Transit dictate road policy in Calgary???

I was wondering the same thing and asked the same question, this was the response I got, which I don't agree with, although I don't want to pursue it now unless I see more support.


Hi – this is a conversation you would need to have with Neil McKendrick as the bus only crossings are put in and maintained by Transit. Our office cannot make Transit remove them even though it would serve residents in Ward 3. Any changes would have to be agreed to and led by Transit.

[supe]

Originally posted by syscal


Personally, I don't buy it. &quot;The greater good&quot; is lowering someone else's property value and quality of life to save a small handful of people 5-8 minutes a day? Sounds like our society in 2014 for sure. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

The fact of the matter is the north is growing where Beddington is just stale. Further, with a lot of commercial activity on the north side (cross irons, asian mall etc), a quick route north for the Beddington area could be a benefit. Right now the beddington area has to do a loop around to be able to head north of the city.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by supe
The fact of the matter is the north is growing where Beddington is just stale. Further, with a lot of commercial activity on the north side (cross irons, asian mall etc), a quick route north for the Beddington area could be a benefit. Right now the beddington area has to do a loop around to be able to head north of the city. Well, considering that the community itself doesn't want the trap opened, I'd say you're just wrong. If they thought those things would be a benefit, then I'm sure they'd want the bus trap opened up now wouldn't they.

Also, who says the community is stale? You? Do you live there?

[MGCM]

shut the fuck up, its a bus trap, costs u 5mins of extra time to go around and yes i deal with this same "problem" boo fucking hoo, there are 1001 more important issues than the beddington bus trap, fucking crybabies, u think 5mins extra is bad? There are places where u spend 3-4hours in a car commuting to work, i dare you to go face to face with one of those ppl and tell them your "upset" over 5 fucking minutes............GROW UP YOU DUMB FUCKS

/END THREAD

[supe]

Originally posted by codetrap
Well, considering that the community itself doesn't want the trap opened, I'd say you're just wrong. If they thought those things would be a benefit, then I'm sure they'd want the bus trap opened up now wouldn't they.

Also, who says the community is stale? You? Do you live there?

I live nearby, and I recently bought, and I considered the area but passed because its stale. Decades ago my parents owned a small business in beddington mall but it didn't grow because the area is stale. The mall is a ghost town.

Maybe the tims that just opened will revive the area.

[supe]

Originally posted by MGCM
shut the fuck up, its a bus trap, costs u 5mins of extra time to go around and yes i deal with this same &quot;problem&quot; boo fucking hoo, there are 1001 more important issues than the beddington bus trap, fucking crybabies, u think 5mins extra is bad? There are places where u spend 3-4hours in a car commuting to work, i dare you to go face to face with one of those ppl and tell them your &quot;upset&quot; over 5 fucking minutes............GROW UP YOU DUMB FUCKS

/END THREAD

Your comment would be much more respected if you wrote a mature response.

[syscal]

If they open up that bustrap, I believe you'll see more traffic coming in not only out of downtown but off mcknight and 64th. The entire stretch of centre st from downtown to country hills would be much busier than it is now, when it's not built for that. Right now it does what it's supposed to, push traffic to the surrounding areas. Open the trap and now all those people in those areas lose the 5-10 minutes you think you'll gain. One smack up on the deerfoot and all traffic diverts right?