Porsche 944 Support group...LOL

[Nufy]

So last fall I purchased a 1985.5 Porsche 944 Coupe as a project
car.

As driving season is soon upon us i am trying to get to the critical items required in order to make the car somewhat reliable.

Next on the list is the timing / balance belts.

Does any one on here have some of the porsche specific tools required for this job.

Namely

Flywheel lock and pulley wrench.

I would be looking to borrow / rent both in the upcoming months for a couple weeks in order to finish the job.


I know i can have the work done at a garage but as this is a project vehicle I was hopping to do some of the work myself.

If there is a like minded person out there, maybe we could work out a labor exchange.

I help you, you help me kind of thing...


Drop me a pm if you can / need help.


Cheers !!!

[BananaFob]

Wish I had started one of these when I had a 944 turbo :p

[FunWheelDrive]

You can find of all the information you're ever going to need at renegadehybrids.com/ there you will find all the information how to swap in an LsX of your choice and save yourself a bunch of money. :rofl:

[TurboCarrera]

Originally posted by FunWheelDrive
You can find of all the information you're ever going to need at renegadehybrids.com/ there you will find all the information how to swap in an LsX of your choice and save yourself a bunch of money. :rofl:

:rofl: Good luck getting an LS swap done for less than 10g and a full year, especially if the OP is lacking the tools to do a timing belt. And unless you are clever with it all, you will have a car that drives like shit.

OP there are two pulley wrenches, I believe they are 27mm and 32mm, and you should be able to sneak a crescent wrench in there if you don't have those. No need for a flywheel lock, just have a friend throw it in gear and hold the brakes to get the pulley bolt off.

While you're in their, replace any of the seals that leak or sweat- cheap and easy now, PITA later. Also do the water pump. When you reinstall the crank pulley bolt, do not anti seize it and tighten it very hard, it is part of the oil pump drive.

Good luck with the project, and stay away from truck engines. No need for a swap, especially if you are still learning.

[FunWheelDrive]

You could easily do an LsX swap for less then half of that 10,000 you said. The swap kit is 2500, spent the extra 1000 and you have the coolant package and headers. The kit comes with a clever clutch disc and input shaft bearing so you re-use the factory 944 gear box ( a big cost in the LSX swaps normally, the T56.) so you can go buy a aluminum 5.3 out of a junk yard, Z06 cam, and springs and retainers, EFI LIVE and you'll make 300rwhp all day long. :dunno: I know building those Porsche motors is pricey and hard to find parts for. Seems like LsX swaps into everything is getting more and more common though.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by FunWheelDrive
You could easily do an LsX swap for less then half of that 10,000 you said. The swap kit is 2500, spent the extra 1000 and you have the coolant package and headers. The kit comes with a clever clutch disc and input shaft bearing so you re-use the factory 944 gear box ( a big cost in the LSX swaps normally, the T56.) so you can go buy a aluminum 5.3 out of a junk yard, Z06 cam, and springs and retainers, EFI LIVE and you'll make 300rwhp all day long. :dunno: I know building those Porsche motors is pricey and hard to find parts for. Seems like LsX swaps into everything is getting more and more common though.

Yeah, but who wants a reliable, cheap to upgrade,
mod loving, lightweight and compact, mean sounding
"truck engine" :rolleyes:

Oh wait, that sounds perfectly logical!

[TurboCarrera]

Originally posted by FunWheelDrive
You could easily do an LsX swap for less then half of that 10,000 you said. The swap kit is 2500, spent the extra 1000 and you have the coolant package and headers. The kit comes with a clever clutch disc and input shaft bearing so you re-use the factory 944 gear box ( a big cost in the LSX swaps normally, the T56.) so you can go buy a aluminum 5.3 out of a junk yard, Z06 cam, and springs and retainers, EFI LIVE and you'll make 300rwhp all day long. :dunno: I know building those Porsche motors is pricey and hard to find parts for. Seems like LsX swaps into everything is getting more and more common though.

How about the hydroboost to have decent brakes? Or the fact that no aftermarket headers actually fit in the narrow engine bay? Dropping the sub frame and correcting suspension geometry to fit the intake under the hood?

And after all that, you have a 300hp car with a 150hp chassis and a the weak NA tranny, an engine that is 60lbs heavier in a car you bought for its balance. Or you could get a turbo, put on a mild turbo upgrade and enjoy the same power level in a nicely sorted car

I'm quote familiar with what is necessary for a swap, a lot more than you are apparently. Maybe you should educate yourself on what it takes to do this properly before encouraging someone who is still learning to work in cars.

[FunWheelDrive]

Originally posted by TurboCarrera


How about the hydroboost to have decent brakes? Or the fact that no aftermarket headers actually fit in the narrow engine bay? Dropping the sub frame and correcting suspension geometry to fit the intake under the hood?

And after all that, you have a 300hp car with a 150hp chassis and a the weak NA tranny, an engine that is 60lbs heavier in a car you bought for its balance. Or you could get a turbo, put on a mild turbo upgrade and enjoy the same power level in a nicely sorted car

I'm quote familiar with what is necessary for a swap, a lot more than you are apparently. Maybe you should educate yourself on what it takes to do this properly before encouraging someone who is still learning to work in cars.

You can buy the custom headers in their kit, and it comes with a custom subframe. Does come with a sway bar drop kit to clear the pan, I haven't heard issues with the guys who have done the swap with brake problems. I'm sorry for being uneducated, just trying to help a guy out. There is also a turbo 944 transaxle for sale on kijiji right now which would hold a mild LSX all day long. You could throw a turbo on the stock 944 motor. When it blows up (everybody gets greedy with boost) how much for a new one? Hey, to each there own. I bet you he would learn a lot more about working on cars swapping in an LSX, building the fuel system, building it mechanically ect, then basic maintenance. Depends on how much he really want to learn I suppose. I am a fan of the engine in the Porsche 944 Turbos, they're just super expensive to maintain. I just like, cheap, reliable, easy horsepower. :love: I know I learned a lot when I did an old SBF swap into my old FC. Also realized how much fun and badass a v8 swapped light little car can be. I wasn't all about the road course though, just a daily driven summer car that fired up everyday. So adding the extra 60lbs didn't make a difference that I ever felt in the car.

[Nufy]

Well this went sideways in a hurry...
Thanks fellas.

Should i start another thread and let you continue the pissing match in this one ?

[M.alex]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


Yeah, but who wants a reliable, cheap to upgrade,
mod loving, lightweight and compact, mean sounding
"truck engine" :rolleyes:

Oh wait, that sounds perfectly logical!

Don't bother trying to argue with porsche fanatics, they almost never buy into the concept of an american v8

[Zero102]

In an effort to keep things on topic.....

I bought the princess auto pin wrench set when I had my 944 - it fit the balance shaft pulleys perfectly and left lots of room to get a socket wrench on the bolts.

As for the flywheel lock I always used a helper and a large flat-head screwdriver to hold the flywheel stationary. The flywheel locks are available from pelican or other parts suppliers pretty cheap if you're doing the job yourself just make sure to leave time for shipping :)
I forget how the layout of the flywheel/PP bolts is, but can you bolt on a piece of angle iron and let it wedge against the bellhousing through the starter hole? I've used that trick lots of times before.

Is the engine in or out of the car?

[Nufy]

Originally posted by Zero102
In an effort to keep things on topic.....

I bought the princess auto pin wrench set when I had my 944 - it fit the balance shaft pulleys perfectly and left lots of room to get a socket wrench on the bolts.

As for the flywheel lock I always used a helper and a large flat-head screwdriver to hold the flywheel stationary. The flywheel locks are available from pelican or other parts suppliers pretty cheap if you're doing the job yourself just make sure to leave time for shipping :)
I forget how the layout of the flywheel/PP bolts is, but can you bolt on a piece of angle iron and let it wedge against the bellhousing through the starter hole? I've used that trick lots of times before.

Is the engine in or out of the car?

Engine is in the car...

No worries about shipping...

I am collecting items now to do the work sometime in May I think...

[Zero102]

If the engine was out I'd just say to impact gun the crank bolt off, but unless you pull the rad and A/C condenser you won't be able to do that with it in the car. Flywheel lock is your best bet. There are probably universal ones at some parts / performance parts stores, or just order one from pelican or similar. They are pretty cheap.

[Nufy]

Yeah, I think pelican will be getting a big order from me in the next few weeks.

If you are interested I could buy a bunch of beer and have a belt changing party LOL.

I could use all the technical advice i can get.

Also a great way to meet new people...LOL

[Nufy]

Originally posted by TurboCarrera



OP there are two pulley wrenches, I believe they are 27mm and 32mm, and you should be able to sneak a crescent wrench in there if you don't have those. No need for a flywheel lock, just have a friend throw it in gear and hold the brakes to get the pulley bolt off.

While you're in their, replace any of the seals that leak or sweat- cheap and easy now, PITA later. Also do the water pump. When you reinstall the crank pulley bolt, do not anti seize it and tighten it very hard, it is part of the oil pump drive.

Good luck with the project, and stay away from truck engines. No need for a swap, especially if you are still learning.


Thanks for the advice.

You may have already worked on this car as it was at Alpine for oil cooler seals and a new clutch cylinder this past winter.


I was thinking about sending it back to you guys, but its not really a project car to me if a shop does all the work.

After i screw it up you can charge me double to fix it all....LOL

[Zero102]

Timing belt changing party sounds fun but I've got a stereo to install in my sister's car, I have to get my auto-x car ready for the season, I have some house maintenance to take care of and I have 3 kids. It'd probably be August before I'll have any time for something like that :(

[Bizzle]

Hey dudes! I have an '83 944 that I've basically abandoned, and want to start parting out. I have a brand new head and engine rebuild kit that I wouldn't mind getting rid of, plus some extras (rear brakes and such). If anyone is looking for a parts car, or parts in general, shoot me a pm.

[chrenan]

Great thread, nice to see the 944 guys here. We've got a good group of 924/944/951 guys in Edmonton that all wrench and help each other out. Hopefully some of you will make it up to Castrol this year.

[Nufy]

Quick bump as the snow is melting.

Cheers.

[gamman]

had a 944 v8. Loved it. It wasn't track worthy, so I got a z06. Loved that. If you aren't mechanical and plan to race, thats a tough spot to be in. If you have mechanical friends who are willing to help you, the 944 v8 is the way to go. There are about 10 guys on this board that could notice 60lbs in a 3000lb car. THere are also affordable things to do to move 60 lbs.

look up 944hybrids or whatever the new board is. RH while once a good place to get information, are basically not doing 944's anymore. Texas performance concepts is it now.

Would love to get another, but have my hands full with the miata v8....

[JustinL]

Can someone remind me why are we pulling the crank pulleys off the car for a timing and balance belt job?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by gamman
had a 944 v8. Loved it. It wasn't track worthy, so I got a z06. Loved that. If you aren't mechanical and plan to race, thats a tough spot to be in. If you have mechanical friends who are willing to help you, the 944 v8 is the way to go. There are about 10 guys on this board that could notice 60lbs in a 3000lb car. THere are also affordable things to do to move 60 lbs.

look up 944hybrids or whatever the new board is. RH while once a good place to get information, are basically not doing 944's anymore. Texas performance concepts is it now.

Would love to get another, but have my hands full with the miata v8....

What made your 944 V8 un-trackworthy? Oiling issues? I've been kicking around the idea of finding a 951 with a blown motor and dropping in an L33 for a fun street car with occasional track use.

[Nufy]

Not sure either...
But its in all the instructions i read online...


Originally posted by JustinL
Can someone remind me why are we pulling the crank pulleys off the car for a timing and balance belt job?

[chrenan]

Originally posted by Nufy
Not sure either...
But its in all the instructions i read online...



Oh god no. Here are instructions for everything on the 944 in plain English:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/repair-procedure-index4.htm

Combine that with the workshop manuals here:

http://www.9ss1.dk/porsche944/garage/workshop.html

That should cover you well. Any questions post them up here, I'm subscribed to the thread and I've owned 924/944's since 2002. Justin's probably owned them longer than me, he definitely has more experience with the 2.5 engine. There's really not much on these cars we haven't touched. Justin's done a full rebuild on a 968 engine, I've done one on a 924, so you're covered from 2.0 to 3.0 litres!

[natty54]

I have to do my t-belt too :(

[Zero102]

Originally posted by JustinL
Can someone remind me why are we pulling the crank pulleys off the car for a timing and balance belt job?

To access the crankshaft oil seal. No point doing all this work and leaving the old (probably weeping) crank seal in there to contaminate the new belt and make a mess. The balance shaft and camshaft oil seals should also be replaced for the same reason. Many timing belt kits include all of these.

If you are just doing belts and are trying to do everything on the cheap (because that ALWAYS turns out well!) you can sneak the belts out between the rear cover and the crank gear / pulley without removing them.

[Nufy]

Clarks Garage is a daily read for me lately...

To be perfectly honest I am looking for someone to assist me in doing this work.

I will turn the wrenches, get dirty etc...

But some tech support sipping a beer while I slave away would be great.

If there are any services (non sexual...) that i can provide in return, that we can discuss that too.



Originally posted by chrenan


Oh god no. Here are instructions for everything on the 944 in plain English:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/repair-procedure-index4.htm

Combine that with the workshop manuals here:

http://www.9ss1.dk/porsche944/garage/workshop.html

That should cover you well. Any questions post them up here, I'm subscribed to the thread and I've owned 924/944's since 2002. Justin's probably owned them longer than me, he definitely has more experience with the 2.5 engine. There's really not much on these cars we haven't touched. Justin's done a full rebuild on a 968 engine, I've done one on a 924, so you're covered from 2.0 to 3.0 litres!

[chrenan]

Originally posted by Zero102


To access the crankshaft oil seal. No point doing all this work and leaving the old (probably weeping) crank seal in there to contaminate the new belt and make a mess. The balance shaft and camshaft oil seals should also be replaced for the same reason. Many timing belt kits include all of these.

If you are just doing belts and are trying to do everything on the cheap (because that ALWAYS turns out well!) you can sneak the belts out between the rear cover and the crank gear / pulley without removing them.

I'd advise this if:

1. It's a car with unknown service history. Replace the water pump while you're in there. This was done when I bought my car.

2. Every third belt change on a car you've owned that long.

[JustinL]

Originally posted by Zero102

To access the crankshaft oil seal.

That's fair, but it's worthwhile pointing these things out before getting too deep into it. I've done all these jobs and for an unknown history car it's worth doing it, but like you pointed out, if you are just doing the belts you can slip them out.

So your shopping list nuffy is a front end reseal kit, belt kit, and a waterpump.

[Nufy]

Originally posted by JustinL


That's fair, but it's worthwhile pointing these things out before getting too deep into it. I've done all these jobs and for an unknown history car it's worth doing it, but like you pointed out, if you are just doing the belts you can slip them out.

So your shopping list nuffy is a front end reseal kit, belt kit, and a waterpump.

Yep...

I have a quote for all the work mentioned for about 2K.

Is it worth attempting this myself at all ?

[chrenan]

If you have the tools and space, absolutely. Post up pictures here if you get stuck and we can walk you through it.

Here's an ongoing thread on my car. It tracks some work from last winter (new oil cooler, new head, headers, belts, etc.). It shows lots of the oily bits you'll be dealing with.

http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1539

[Nufy]

Great thread...

Do you source your parts locally or online ?



Originally posted by chrenan
If you have the tools and space, absolutely. Post up pictures here if you get stuck and we can walk you through it.

Here's an ongoing thread on my car. It tracks some work from last winter (new oil cooler, new head, headers, belts, etc.). It shows lots of the oily bits you'll be dealing with.

http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1539

[chrenan]

Online (with US Post shipping only). I'll pick up the odd small item at the dealer, but very rarely.

[Nufy]

Online Sources other than pelican ?

[chrenan]

I've used all of these over the years with no issues (as well as pelican), they are probably on the list of common sites for many 944 guys:

http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/SFNT.html
http://www.paragon-products.com/
http://944online.com/
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/index.php [suspension only]
http://www.rennline.com/
http://www.partsheaven.com/Default.asp [used parts]
http://www.lartsperformanceparts.com/Home.html [used parts]

[Nufy]

Awesome...Thanks.

[Nufy]

Pulled off my accessory belts and timing covers this afternoon.

I am guessing I have the 46mm water pump



http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/9/5/9/44870/preview_944tb10.jpg

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/9/5/9/44870/preview_944tb40.jpg

What do you think ?

I need to be sure before I order parts.

[chrenan]

Where the belts are closest together in your picture, there is no guard plate between the water pump pulley (left) and water pump roller (right), that usually means an early water pump. See the guard and late 46 mm roller here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads15/944+cam+belt1250049811.jpg

Easiest way to be sure is just to line up a ruler against the water pump roller and get a rough measurement:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads18/46mm+roller1280909150.jpg

It looks like you may have the early original water pump with a 32 mm roller - while you are in there it might be a good time for a new late style water pump.

[Nufy]

Gotcha.

I was actually measuring the drive pulley on the water pump hence my confusion.

I am also looking for a lower t-belt cover.

It seems the AC compressor blew up and ran the alternator belt into the plastic housing.
Its pretty messed up.

Previous owner installed an AC delete kit but didn't change the belt cover.

Know of one for sale ?

I am in Edmonton this wknd and could meet you somewhere.

Cheers.

[Nufy]

Do you need the slim wrenches to adjust the tensioner pulleys ?

If so where in calgary can I get one / a set ?

Thanks.

[chrenan]

This is what I use, the pin wrenches for the spring tensioner, flat wrench for the eccentric tensioners, flywheel lock, and Porsche tool P9201 tension gauge.

I think you can get away without the flat wrench. A vintage Hazet or Gedore regular wrench (think like the ones in your factory tool kit) are slightly thinner than modern wrenches at the open end, one of those may work. If not you can always grind down a Princess Auto cheapie wrench.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WZZXL6-Gjno/UVO0Vfvw61I/AAAAAAAAA0U/Fzf0uhI86Pg/s800/photo.JPG

[Nufy]

Originally posted by chrenan
This is what I use, the pin wrenches for the spring tensioner, flat wrench for the eccentric tensioners, flywheel lock, and Porsche tool P9201 tension gauge.

I think you can get away without the flat wrench. A vintage Hazet or Gedore regular wrench (think like the ones in your factory tool kit) are slightly thinner than modern wrenches at the open end, one of those may work. If not you can always grind down a Princess Auto cheapie wrench.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WZZXL6-Gjno/UVO0Vfvw61I/AAAAAAAAA0U/Fzf0uhI86Pg/s800/photo.JPG


Nice medical Kit...

Do you do house calls ?


Just belts and rollers right now until I determine what else is wrong.

Just the flat wrench for now I guess. Once I get my parts in the mail I will see what I can do.

Cheers.

[chrenan]

Originally posted by Nufy


Do you do house calls ?


I absolutely would in Edmonton, we've got a nice local crew of 944 guys that help each other out. I don't get down to Calgary much anymore, with little kids now I try to stay home as much as I can.

Keep posting up pics when you get your parts and get in there!

[Nufy]

Know anyone in Calgary with that tension guage ?

I can pay beer / cash / karma for a house call...

[chrenan]

Sorry I don't - there has to be one around somewhere in Calgary. Maybe post on the Canada section of the Rennlist board? Or even the 944 Turbo section of the Rennlist board? Did anyone ever track a 944 at Race City? Maybe post on the CSCC forum too?

[Nufy]

Alright...



Timing and Balance belts changed along with rollers.

60k Shakedown run was awesome afterwards as well.

Tranny fluid next I think...

Maybe a new shifter.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10484280_10154337293345422_5877585496201507917_n.jpg

[chrenan]

Very well done! I bet that felt good! Did you find a tension tool or do it by feel? Transmission fluid is much easier, just be sure to remove the fill plug first. Now I need to convince you to bring it up to Castrol for a little fun.

[Nufy]

No tool.

By feel only. Was too tight at first so it whined a bit.

All good now.