Death Wobble

[syscal]

Got me some death wobble. Had the front end checked out and a new recall replaces a few other parts, but I thought I'd post these vids here to show how crazy this is. Buddy of mine was in front of me on the Deerfoot and saw my truck go into wobble, said he thought the tires were going to fall off. Scared the crap out of me the first time it happened, now I just drive right lane slow everywhere I go. If death wobble starts I hit the brakes and speed back up when it's gone.

I have a Bilstein 5100 steering damper on order to match my shocks, but %@#$ it's on backorder! Should have ordered it months ago when it started.

From the outside (not me)
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From the inside (not me)
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Some guy showing a little more in depth with a steering damper fix on a Ford - Watch at 6:10
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[FraserB]

Steering damper won't do anything to actually fix it and it's not even the cause of the issue. There is something loose or broken in your front end.

[syscal]

Originally posted by FraserB
Steering damper won't do anything to actually fix it and it's not even the cause of the issue. There is something loose or broken in your front end.

I've heard that as well so I had Diesel Performance and Cochrane Dodge both check it out. DPS didn't say much, Cochrane Dodge said get a new steering damper and show up when the recall parts come in. I'll put on the damper myself before hand if it comes in.

Recall notice is here (http://www.dodge.com/universal/webselfservice/pdf/N62.pdf)

I know just enough to get by with doing my own maintenance and repairs covered by the Haynes manual, so if you have anything to add I'd appreciate the input.

[syscal]

Oh, and the current steering damper is S H O T. Big time. Rancho crap. When I took the shocks off there was absolutely ZERO resistance on all four.

Mechanic at Cochrane Dodge said the steering damper not only has zero resistance, but it also has some kind of blockage stopping it from compressing fully. Strongly recommended I replace it right away.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by FraserB
Steering damper won't do anything to actually fix it and it's not even the cause of the issue. There is something loose or broken in your front end.

Actually it will do a lot.

Something is going on over at fiat/dodge/chrysler/jeep as there are a few models this is happening too, most prominent on the Heavy Duty trucks and the Jeep Wrangler Unlimiteds.

From my research, no one has been able to identify the cause of the issue yet, and Dodge is guessing. The issue is too widespread and happening too often to just be bad ball joints.

I know a couple people that have put the steering dampers in there with great success. It does not eliminate it 100% but it makes it way more manageable when it does happen, and does not make you feel like the truck is going to fall apart or steer into the ditch.

[FraserB]

Is it IFS or a solid axle up front? Several causes but it will change depending on IFS vs SA

@Spikers: I have no steering stabilizer at all. No death wobble ;) All the SS does is mask it. If the DW isn't too bad, it will work. But the parts wearing out will continue to wear to either the point of failure or to the point where a SS can't mask it and it just gets trashed quickly.

[syscal]

I think he meant that it's putting a bandaid on the issue instead of fixing the root cause.

I keep hearing the same thing in the Cummins forums as well. "Don't just put a damper on it". But honestly, if one performance shop and one dealership don't know then I have to take their advice. I'm not going to spend more money on diagnosis elsewhere at this point.

[dirtsniffer]

What the shit. That looks dangerous to drive! Chrysler doesn't know what the problem is? Remind me to never buy one.

[spikerS]

oh yeah, i am not saying the SS is going to be a be all fix.

All I am saying is that Dodge does not know the cause of this yet, or what triggers it, and is just throwing parts at it to see what works.

The SS is just that, a band-aid so the driver stays in control, and wear and tear on the rest of the parts are lessened until a fix is found.

[Unknown303]

I've seem most Wrangler forums identify it as being a worn bushing, sometimes it seems to be the track arm, sometimes they find a control arm bushing. But depending on the location and how long you've had the wobble you can have the bolt hole warped into more of a oval making it extremely hard to get rid of.

Seems most people just tighten the living piss out of anything with a rubber bushing.

The death wobble is what will destroy the steering dampener, but replacing the dampener only allows you to get away with the death wobble for longer.

[syscal]

Originally posted by FraserB
Is it IFS or a solid axle up front? Several causes but it will change depending on IFS vs SA

@Spikers: I have no steering stabilizer at all. No death wobble ;) All the SS does is mask it. If the DW isn't too bad, it will work. But the parts wearing out will continue to wear to either the point of failure or to the point where a SS can't mask it and it just gets trashed quickly.

Solid Axle. Google says Live Axle...

[Unknown303]

Here's a good video of it

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[FraserB]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
What the shit. That looks dangerous to drive! Chrysler doesn't know what the problem is? Remind me to never buy one.

The issue on the JKs (2007+ Wranglers) is the bolt on the axle side of the trackbar. The factory uses a metric bolt in a standard hole. The difference is minute, but enough to cause issues. It wouldn't shock me to see the same thing being an issue on their other models.

Syscal: With it being a solid axle, it is pretty straight forward to diagnose this. You have some time this week at night?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
What the shit. That looks dangerous to drive! Chrysler doesn't know what the problem is? Remind me to never buy one.

It's not necessarily a Chrysler issue, literally anything with a 5-link stick axle or a radius arm/panhard bar setup can get death wobble. Ford, GM, they can all get the dreaded DW and there's a multitude of potential causes - every case of wobble needs to be diagnosed individually.

I've had it before, track bar (the usual culprit) was fine but replacing my TREs fixed things. Sometimes it can be as simple as a bad alignment or poorly balanced tires.

[source69er]

I had this issue with my '96 Grand Cherokee.
Holy shit the first time scared the hell out of me driving down deerfoot. Mine only happened at 70km when slowing down. (So from 75-65 essentially). Got a new beefy steering dampener and it bandaided the problem. Got written off before the issue came back though.

[Rat Fink]

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[Alak]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
Fords are often caused by a bad steering damper, bad track bar (either the bushing end or the balljoint end), or something else loose in the front end like a balljoint or tie rod end but the steering damper and the track bar are the top causes.

I have also had customers that ditch the factory tires for aftermarket, and depending on the sidewall strength of the replacement tires and the pressure they are running, they can also get a death wobble. I've grabbed factory rims/tires off another truck and swapped them onto a problem truck and the wobble goes away. If your front end is perfect then you might be looking at tires. Nobody ever thinks about the tires.....which really are a vital part of the whole system.

Pretty much nailed. On my personal truck, it was oversize tires that were unevenly worn. I put new tires on and skinnier ones to boot and all was well.

Track bar bushings and joints wear out heavily as well in city driving (compared to highway), especially in diesels.

Also the tires wear funny in the city with having to cut the steering full lock all the time in the parking lots. Sometimes it cups the outer or inner edges which is a balance issue that is usually only evident at higher speeds and can lead to wobbling. The cupping becomes more evident when there is loose or worn steering parts (like a track bar) that is able to effect alignment when turning sharply. If the truck is factory with factory tires, cupping isnt as common, that ive seen anyways.

[syscal]

Originally posted by FraserB
Syscal: With it being a solid axle, it is pretty straight forward to diagnose this. You have some time this week at night?

Man, of all the weeks to not have time to check over the forum. I'd like any help I can get for sure if your offer is still open.

I rotated the tires this weekend as one of the tech's that checked it out told me I needed to and the previous owner was quite adamant that the tires he chose had a lot to do with taming the death wobble. I haven't had a chance to test drive yet though.

It's an interesting bit of a frankentruck (I'd get a decal with that if I could!). The steering components were replaced apparently with the steering of a 1 ton, which shouldn't matter because afaik there is no difference between the 3/4 and 1 ton except for extra leaf springs. The track bar was actually a recall in these units originally because of death wobble.

I've actually been thinking of removing the 2" leveling kit and the 2" stock lift (looks like slab of rubber), but I have no idea how it will look after. I like the looks of the truck right now after removing all the chrome bits the original owner had on, but I'd go for a nice ride over the slightly lifted look any day. Plus smaller tires should improve my fuel economy even more. Right now I have 285/75R17 on the truck and I know if I watch kijiji I can get stock tires with rims for real cheap from the guys that upgrade right away.

[SKR]

Originally posted by syscal
I've actually been thinking of removing the 2" leveling kit and the 2" stock lift (looks like slab of rubber), but I have no idea how it will look after. I like the looks of the truck right now after removing all the chrome bits the original owner had on, but I'd go for a nice ride over the slightly lifted look any day. Plus smaller tires should improve my fuel economy even more. Right now I have 285/75R17 on the truck and I know if I watch kijiji I can get stock tires with rims for real cheap from the guys that upgrade right away.

If this is a big concern, I had 305/70R17s on my 05 with no levelling kit. The math says they're pretty close to the same size and mine never touched anything. Dodge wheelwells are massive. I don't think there's any difference from 05 to 07.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/krccontractingltd/Truck%20Pictures/truck5.jpg

[FraserB]

Yeah, for sure. Drop me a PM with your number. Monday, Wednesday and Thursday work best for me this week I think.

[boarderfatty]

I do a lot of work on lifted jeeps I find that with a lifted truck, getting it aligned to max out the caster usually makes if track a hell of a lot better and helps with death wobbles.

[civic_stylez]

I will never forget the first time i got a death wobble in my WJ Cherokee... I have never been so close to shitting my pants in my life. Though the front tire was coming off. New steering damper fixed the issue for me even though I have seen from many that the damper is not the best way to fix it.

[n1zm0]

That is crazy, the fact that it's both front wheels doing that and not just one is :eek: , I couldn't imagine how much I'd shit my pants if it happened to me near Golden or somewhere like that, but looking at some other videos, people seem to be in control of the truck for the most part, even switching lanes at those speeds seem ok.

[syscal]

FYI, FraserB stopped by and fixed the death wobble with the turning of a couple bolts!

After a trip to Banff on friday, with no incidents, I can't thank you enough! :clap: Thanks for all the advice as well. :thumbsup:

[FraserB]

Nice! Glad to know it all worked out.

[syscal]

UPDATE

Had death wobble one time since FraserB's visit. FINALLY got the backordered Bilstein 5100 steering damper. Installed that and it feels almost like a new truck. There is still play that I can feel so I know I'll be doing some work up there sometime but for now I feel like it's under control.