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View Full Version : Is lowering the car just that simple?



macdaddy
03-01-2004, 01:51 AM
I have 18"s on my '97 integra which kinda makes it look like a monster truck in my opinion. The only logical thing to do is low it on something like coil overs right? But I have been talking to some people and they have told me that if you lower your car on tire that big, I will quickly notice a huge lean on my rubber. Someone even told me you need to put this special part on your shocks or something to even it all out (can't remember the name)... help me out! Is lowering the car just that... or do I need a bunch of other parts as well?

EnRich
03-01-2004, 02:15 AM
That part your buddy was talking bout is a camber kit... It cost me over $3000 to lower my car properly, so it ain't just that simple... You'll prob want to get new suspension, so that the hard doesn't get too fucked up (bumpy) springs to actually lower the car and a new camber kit... I got Koni Yellows which were 1200 + install, H$R springs which were like $350 + install and a camber kit, forget the name anyways they were $400 + 400 install and re allignment.... Keep in mind once you lower a car, it costs around 80 - 100 bucks to allign it almost every where you go in the city....

Rich

Makes the car look sweet though...

Weapon_R
03-01-2004, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by EnRich
... It cost me over $3000 to lower my car properly, so it ain't just that simple...

:rofl:

You're joking, right?

CRX-R
03-01-2004, 02:32 AM
I've got a bridge to sell you... Any interest??

^SkylinE^
03-01-2004, 02:34 AM
If you don't drop the car too much you won't need a camber kit! Also if your good at DO IT YOUR SELF stuff you will save alot of money. If you just want the look buy some coil overs fo like 300$ throw them in and but a camber kit for the front. I notice alot of wear on my front tires but not on the rear. Ill be buying a camber kit this summer. There have been many threads on this you should try doing a search before starting a thread. Call a tuner shop like speed tech and they can help you out!

macdaddy
03-01-2004, 02:35 AM
what is a bridge

Weapon_R
03-01-2004, 02:40 AM
If you have 18" wheels, you'll probably want a small drop so that you don't rub against your fenders. A 1.5" drop (Eibach proline kit) would be perfect, and couple them up with some Koni Reds for daily driving or KYB AGX's/Yellows if you plan on doing autocross. You won't need a camber kit for a small drop.

SpoonEK9@STRD
03-01-2004, 09:50 AM
dear god $3000:banghead: and your using h&R's and koni yellows.

ZMan2k2
03-01-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
If you have 18" wheels, you'll probably want a small drop so that you don't rub against your fenders. A 1.5" drop (Eibach proline kit) would be perfect, and couple them up with some Koni Reds for daily driving or KYB AGX's/Yellows if you plan on doing autocross. You won't need a camber kit for a small drop.

Not to hijack this thread, but where would I go to get pricing on Koni reds and Eibach pro-kits here in town? Or, just throw up a $, whatever.

Weapon_R
03-01-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by ZMan2k2


Not to hijack this thread, but where would I go to get pricing on Koni reds and Eibach pro-kits here in town? Or, just throw up a $, whatever.

I've had a difficult time getting a set too, but that is because I didn't want to pay the going rate over here. I found ebay to be DIRT cheap for eibachs (around 180US shipped) which works out to be about $250 or so. Tirerack.com has a great deal on Konis, so does shox.com. Check tunerworks for Koni pricing. I know they sell the yellows, and they can probably get the reds too. Reds are good for daily driving.

You can probably get Konis here for about 1000, or about 700 if you pick them up online.

Def_3
03-01-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


:rofl:

You're joking, right?

:werd:

ZMan2k2
03-01-2004, 01:08 PM
Thanks Weapon_R. :thumbsup:

three.eighteen.
03-02-2004, 12:17 AM
definetly get shocks! i saw a pretty clean looking EK today on 18s (i wonder how well he got around once the snow hit) lowered, but with every bump in the road he hit you could see the car bouncing...you wont be the only one who knows that you only got the springs!

7thgenvic
03-02-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by EnRich
That part your buddy was talking bout is a camber kit... It cost me over $3000 to lower my car properly, so it ain't just that simple... You'll prob want to get new suspension, so that the hard doesn't get too fucked up (bumpy) springs to actually lower the car and a new camber kit... I got Koni Yellows which were 1200 + install, H$R springs which were like $350 + install and a camber kit, forget the name anyways they were $400 + 400 install and re allignment.... Keep in mind once you lower a car, it costs around 80 - 100 bucks to allign it almost every where you go in the city....

Rich

Makes the car look sweet though...

:drool: what the fuck!!!! who pays 3000! to lower my car properly it cost me 200 bucks and the jack i have in my garage!

even to get camber kits and what such it still wouldn't cost that much!

i feel bad for the people that pay for those simple installs

:(

core_upt
03-02-2004, 12:44 AM
Like it has been said, if you do a small drop you won't need a cmaber kit. I think if the car is lowered more than 2" then a camber kit is needed, feel free to correct me on this though.

i dropped my Lude (well, Leo did it for me) 1.75 up front and 1.5 in the back with 18" rims and have no rub or any problems, but even with brand new shocks, the 35 series rubber makes for a bumpy ride.

ehos
03-02-2004, 10:45 AM
I'm pretty sure you got taken.

You can get airbags for that kind of dosh.

Moe Man
03-02-2004, 12:31 PM
lol poor guys this is why i like my V double U

i can drop my car right to the ground and i still wont need a camber kit :rofl:

and dont ask why cuz it is just german engineering

GT2NV
03-02-2004, 12:55 PM
it cost me 1000$ to lower my car on eibach pros, and kyb G2's

EK 2.0
03-02-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Moe Man
lol poor guys this is why i like my V double U

i can drop my car right to the ground and i still wont need a camber kit :rofl:

and dont ask why cuz it is just german engineering


Why??...cause it dosent have a Double "Wishbone" set-up...thats why...

rage2
03-02-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Not to hijack this thread, but where would I go to get pricing on Koni reds and Eibach pro-kits here in town? Or, just throw up a $, whatever.
Tunerworks has the best local prices on Koni's, Eibach's and Ground Controls. I did get my set from Speedtech though because TW was closed over christmas :banghead:

EnRich
03-02-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


:rofl:

You're joking, right?

Well if you guys think I got ripped off, dont shop at TunerWorks cause thats where I baught all my stuff... I guess I was kinda stupid to install a camber kit one year after I got the car lowered... That was a wasted 400 bucks, but those koni yellows alone were like 1200 bucks+... I thought those were the best... Maybe it was more money to lower an accord then some other cars... I dunno.... Looks good though, eh....

Rich

1badPT
03-02-2004, 02:13 PM
Hey man if you're happy with it, its worth every penny. And I have heard that camber kits are pretty expensive on some hondas so maybe that explains it. Plus you're paying someone else for the install so you have a lot of labour costs that others aren't paying for. Not to mention, there's probably several people hating in this thread and the wheels on the front of their car look something like this:

/===\

PS - that does look good (yes I've complimented a honda - better bookmark this page :tongue: )

rage2
03-02-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by EnRich
Well if you guys think I got ripped off, dont shop at TunerWorks cause thats where I baught all my stuff... I guess I was kinda stupid to install a camber kit one year after I got the car lowered... That was a wasted 400 bucks, but those koni yellows alone were like 1200 bucks+... I thought those were the best... Maybe it was more money to lower an accord then some other cars... I dunno.... Looks good though, eh....

Rich
A lot of guys buy $300 springs and use stock shocks, no camber kit. It'll look good, but it'll handle sloppy at the track, and ride like shit. Not to mention burning off tires like crazy.

What you did was the proper way to lower the car. I did this on all my cars too. I can't stress how important it is to get matched (or adjustable) shocks to go with the springs, if you care about handling at all. That and not blowing up your stock shocks :).

On my SLK 320, I have stock shocks with the Eibach springs. I went cheap on it. The ride is sooo rough, way worse than kenny's H&R springs and koni yellows (spring rate is about 30% firmer on the H&R too). Unmatched shocks just totally destroy the ride.

EnRich
03-02-2004, 02:17 PM
Yep, thanks alot bro... I had it all done in shops, which basically ate up alot of those costs....

Laate

Rich

MM99lude
03-02-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by rage2

A lot of guys buy $300 springs and use stock shocks, no camber kit. It'll look good, but it'll handle sloppy at the track, and ride like shit. Not to mention burning off tires like crazy.

What you did was the proper way to lower the car. I did this on all my cars too. I can't stress how important it is to get matched (or adjustable) shocks to go with the springs, if you care about handling at all. That and not blowing up your stock shocks :).

On my SLK 320, I have stock shocks with the Eibach springs. I went cheap on it. The ride is sooo rough, way worse than kenny's H&R springs and koni yellows (spring rate is about 30% firmer on the H&R too). Unmatched shocks just totally destroy the ride.

so does this mean if i just bought some H&R's to drop the lude 1.4 inches front and back i would be experiencing a really rough ride and i would blow up my shocks and burn off my tires?

rage2
03-02-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by MM99lude
so does this mean if i just bought some H&R's to drop the lude 1.4 inches front and back i would be experiencing a really rough ride and i would blow up my shocks and burn off my tires?
Most likely. I do notice that people seem to LIKE the rough ride. Also, they think the rougher the ride, the better the handling (so untrue), so it's really tough to convince some people to spend $2k on a proper suspension setup, versus a $300 spring kit installed in their garage by themselves.

Stock shocks don't last too long with aftermarket springs if you drive agressively or attend solo2/trackdays.

The tire burning off is from negative camber, so a camber kit is a must.

Redlyne_mr2
03-02-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by 7thgenvic


:drool: what the fuck!!!! who pays 3000! to lower my car properly it cost me 200 bucks and the jack i have in my garage!

even to get camber kits and what such it still wouldn't cost that much!

i feel bad for the people that pay for those simple installs

:(
Hehe a set of lowering springs on stock shocks isnt properly, unless your cars a beater and you dont care about it. Enrich lowered his car the right way, it did cost him a bit more obviously because he paid someone to do the work but thats a nice setup he has

EnRich
03-02-2004, 05:43 PM
Thanks bro... I'm gonna end this by saying.... and the line I use to sell alot of my clientel at work......

CHEAP IS NOT GOOD, GOOD IS NOT CHEAP, and this is true... I'm really happy with my car, the koni yellows really make a differance... If you lower your car with a spring set, not only will you burn through rubber like it's going outta style but your ride is gonna be straight up shit.... Either do it right, or dont do it at all...

THANKS for the comments guys...

Rich

ExtremeSi
03-02-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by EnRich
Either do it right, or dont do it at all...
Rich
:werd:
When I first lowered my car I just used neuspeed springs and stock shocks and the ride was extremely rough. Just do it right the first time

jdmakkord
03-02-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by EnRich


Well if you guys think I got ripped off, dont shop at TunerWorks cause thats where I baught all my stuff... I guess I was kinda stupid to install a camber kit one year after I got the car lowered... That was a wasted 400 bucks, but those koni yellows alone were like 1200 bucks+... I thought those were the best... Maybe it was more money to lower an accord then some other cars... I dunno.... Looks good though, eh....

Rich

My accord is lowered on Tanabe sustec pro so's, energy suspension poly master kit, ingalls camber kit, with sways coming soon. Not cheap, but less than what you spent. Mind you I installed it myself.

Weapon_R
03-02-2004, 06:42 PM
I still don't agree. A set of true coilovers, superior to a shock/spring setup, will NOT cost that much. A set of Ohlins, Tiens, what have you, will not cost more than 2k - where you spent the other 1k is beyond me. Mind you, an accord may be more expensive, but I don't see it as being that much more.

Redlyne_mr2
03-02-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
I still don't agree. A set of true coilovers, superior to a shock/spring setup, will NOT cost that much. A set of Ohlins, Tiens, what have you, will not cost more than 2k - where you spent the other 1k is beyond me. Mind you, an accord may be more expensive, but I don't see it as being that much more.
Oh yah a true set of of coilovers is as good as it get's. So yah about $2000 plus a camber kit which is what $400? Im not sure what they cost for Hondas plus alignment $80 plus installation of everything so youd be basically at the same price. Its much cheaper for the guys who do the installs themselves and who dont need camber kits

Inthered
03-02-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by EnRich
Thanks bro... I'm gonna end this by saying.... and the line I use to sell alot of my clientel at work......

CHEAP IS NOT GOOD, GOOD IS NOT CHEAP, and this is true... I'm really happy with my car, the koni yellows really make a differance... If you lower your car with a spring set, not only will you burn through rubber like it's going outta style but your ride is gonna be straight up shit.... Either do it right, or dont do it at all...

THANKS for the comments guys...

Rich

your ride looks clean, but you got ripped off on the price. I'm sure you could have got a better deal by buying everything together, then installing everything together.

89EF
03-02-2004, 08:20 PM
coilovers are pretty harsh especially on calgary roads and when its cold, they are bumpy but not bouncy like stock suspensions. They have a stiff ride which is what you would expect...my setup costed me $600 with installation by my self and help from my dad...it took me 10 hours to do front and back including adjustment and that is because all the bolts holding the rear suspension was all seized so i had to torch and cut them all out and bought new bushings for them...it was not as cheap and easy as i expected but boy did it make a diffrence...they're worth it in the end.:thumbsup:

MM99lude
03-02-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by rage2

Most likely. I do notice that people seem to LIKE the rough ride. Also, they think the rougher the ride, the better the handling (so untrue), so it's really tough to convince some people to spend $2k on a proper suspension setup, versus a $300 spring kit installed in their garage by themselves.

Stock shocks don't last too long with aftermarket springs if you drive agressively or attend solo2/trackdays.

The tire burning off is from negative camber, so a camber kit is a must.

What i'm really looking to do is just get rid of my wheel well gap. I don't plan on taking the car to trackday/solo2 i just wanna have a little lower centre of gravity and get rid of my 4x4 look. So if i'm reading all this correctly instead of just getting some lowering springs, which will be a pain in the ass in the long run, i should invest in some new springs, shocks and a camber kit... or go with a true coilover system?

88CRX
03-02-2004, 09:43 PM
I picked up new but pre-owned h&r springs for 140 bucks and i'm gonna be running the stock shocks for now, untill i can afford some yellow+gc coils

At the last beyond meet i was talking to two ef owners, both with slammed cars riding on stock shocks and they said it wasnt that bad. Hell the black one on 17's said he cut a full coil off his springs.

I'll post an update this weekend as the springs are going in this week :D

rage2
03-02-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by MM99lude
What i'm really looking to do is just get rid of my wheel well gap. I don't plan on taking the car to trackday/solo2 i just wanna have a little lower centre of gravity and get rid of my 4x4 look. So if i'm reading all this correctly instead of just getting some lowering springs, which will be a pain in the ass in the long run, i should invest in some new springs, shocks and a camber kit... or go with a true coilover system?
If you're after looks and don't mind a rough ride, just get springs, and a camber kit. Actually, do some research to see if a camber kit is even needed, come cars can be lowered and still have camber aligned back within (or close to) factory specs. Drive it till you blow your stock shocks, and then upgrade.

A coilover system will allow you to raise and lower rideheight, and corner balance the car. Since you don't track, rideheight adjustments are all you really care about, and it's great to be able to raise the car for winter. You may still need a camber kit when the car's lowered.

1badPT
03-02-2004, 10:04 PM
rage - cool sig/avatar combo ;) har har

sorry, carry on with the thread :tongue:

MM99lude
03-02-2004, 10:33 PM
Rage, thanks a lot this makes everything a lot clearer!
really appreciate the help!:thumbsup:

ole dsm
03-02-2004, 11:16 PM
man some of u guys got way tooo much money to poor in the drain!, its comical how much some of u waste!
3g's for ur suspension on ur accord gimmy a break! by saying "that u did it the right way and thats why it costs so much"
YOU ARE JUST FOOLING UR SELF! i would have taken ur mechanic out back

about 4 years ago i owned a vw passat syncro g60, i lowered it
bought all custom made to order shocks from koni (one offs) 280 usd a shock , 960usd in shocks and then i bought some springs H&R at 300usd, here is the trick thow!
WHEN U REPLACE THE SHOCKS U MUST TAKE OUT THE SPRINGS it the same for every MacPherson strut equipt car
why would u buy some fancey shocks and not do the springs at the same time is beyond me why pay the same labour twice?.
also just cuz ur car is an accord it does mean that its harder to lower! it can't be hard its a honda

if it was a rare car like one of 300 vw passat syncro g60's imported into all of north america then it would be a different storey.

7thgenvic
03-03-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by ole dsm
man some of u guys got way tooo much money to poor in the drain!, its comical how much some of u waste!
3g's for ur suspension on ur accord gimmy a break! by saying "that u did it the right way and thats why it costs so much"
YOU ARE JUST FOOLING UR SELF! i would have taken ur mechanic out back

about 4 years ago i owned a vw passat syncro g60, i lowered it
bought all custom made to order shocks from koni (one offs) 280 usd a shock , 960usd in shocks and then i bought some springs H&R at 300usd, here is the trick thow!
WHEN U REPLACE THE SHOCKS U MUST TAKE OUT THE SPRINGS it the same for every MacPherson strut equipt car
why would u buy some fancey shocks and not do the springs at the same time is beyond me why pay the same labour twice?.
also just cuz ur car is an accord it does mean that its harder to lower! it can't be hard its a honda

if it was a rare car like one of 300 vw passat syncro g60's imported into all of north america then it would be a different storey.

:werd: i see better ways to spend 3 g's, if your whole car is done up properly and you have a good reason to spend 3 g's on the suspension then props, but when your stock with rims and you wanna lower your car to basically get the look, stock struts are fine, sure they may not last 10 years, but they do for the time being, if anything wouldn't it be smart to get a spring of coilover that a after market stock could be easily added, don't spend the money untill you ABSOLUTLY need to! I totally agree with Weapon!

just shop around for parts, save your money, and do a full suspension set up after the rest of your car is done, or if your planning on hitting the track tons!

sexualbanana
03-03-2004, 03:27 PM
Whatever you do, PLEASE don't cut your springs.

rage2
03-03-2004, 03:37 PM
For everyone that thought Enrich paid too much, well, it was a learning experience for him. Started off by going cheap, then realizing in the end it ain't worth it, then repeating the install. I'm sure the next car he lowers, he'll do it all at once and be a lot less labour costs.

hjr
03-03-2004, 06:22 PM
its not a big deal. 3 large and he is happy with it. Its not that much money. Granted it could have been cheaper but hindsight is ALWAYS 20-20. Basically, lay off the dude. Its not a big deal.

nosegrindR
03-03-2004, 06:32 PM
3000 dollars to lower your car "properly", hahaha
that's awesome, you're awesome

you're funny
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

EnRich
03-04-2004, 07:34 PM
Whats so funny bout that, I fail to see the humor... Funny thing is i spend 3 grand on lowering a car, your probably only driving a 3000 dollar car...

7thgenvic
03-04-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by EnRich
Whats so funny bout that, I fail to see the humor... Funny thing is i spend 3 grand on lowering a car, your probably only drive a 3000 dollar car...

hahahahah ya you busted me!!!!! shit the citry train has to be at least 30,000! hahahah

89EF
03-04-2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by EnRich
Whats so funny bout that, I fail to see the humor... Funny thing is i spend 3 grand on lowering a car, your probably only drive a 3000 dollar car...

LMAO...

sick ride by the way:hitit:

Moe Man
03-04-2004, 09:52 PM
maybe 3000 to lower a benz or a maybach......(dont see wh yyou would lower one anyway)

Ben
03-04-2004, 10:56 PM
I think EnRich has an outstanding setup, and I fail to see why everyone is giving him shit over it? Having it all professionally installed and top quality parts costs money. Looks to me a few people failed to read, that he didn't do it all at once to it cost a fair bit more than if he had it done at the same time. Maybe he overpaid by a couple hundred bucks but who cares? At least its reliable gear and didn't do what most people do on here and either cut the springs or buy some third rate lowering springs on stock shocks.



Congrats on the setup, enjoy.

macdaddy
03-05-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by EnRich
Whats so funny bout that, I fail to see the humor... Funny thing is i spend 3 grand on lowering a car, your probably only drive a 3000 dollar car...


YESSS!!! I LOVE THAT! People who just go off and tell you what they thing would be hot on your car and they are like "that looks good and that doesn't" and yadda yadda yadda... and then you are like ... "what do you drive again... a 1980 domestic piece of trash... thanks for the input though"

-250-
03-06-2004, 06:13 AM
Way to many jelous haters in this thread, just because you dont have the walet to shell 3g on a great suspention setup, doesnt make him a doofus for having done it. I am willing to bet his car handles in a completly different ballpark then yours, I mean springs and stock shocks, or top notch shocks and springs?

Now thats a tough one :eek:

Enrich, your car is pure sex. :devil: :drool: :drool:

7thgenvic
03-06-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by -250-
Way to many jelous haters in this thread, just because you dont have the walet to shell 3g on a great suspention setup, doesnt make him a doofus for having done it. I am willing to bet his car handles in a completly different ballpark then yours, I mean springs and stock shocks, or top notch shocks and springs?

Now thats a tough one :eek:

Enrich, your car is pure sex. :devil: :drool: :drool:

buddy what the fuck are you talking about, its not that were hating or that alot of us don't have 3g's smart ass, all people were saying was that you can do the same job for cheaper! way cheaper! im sorry if you took this the wrong way!!! car looks good, but im still pretty sure a civic hatch with a moderate suspension would crush a heavy accord in the corners!

thanks buddy for thinking everyone is poor! booo hoo

finboy
03-06-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by macdaddy



YESSS!!! I LOVE THAT! People who just go off and tell you what they thing would be hot on your car and they are like "that looks good and that doesn't" and yadda yadda yadda... and then you are like ... "what do you drive again... a 1980 domestic piece of trash... thanks for the input though"

WOA, WOA, WOA...

there is nothing wrong with 80's domestics, some are a great platform to start off with (mine shares the same platform with the daytona, k car, and even the caravan) that means all wheel 11" disc brakes, 1.25" sway bar, upgrade suspension (see next paragraph), etc. will ALL swap over, and i have a VERY stout drivtrain that will handle tonnes of boost, and only costs as much as the wrecker charges if i blow it up.

hell, i spent good cash on my suspension set up (GC coilovers, eibachs, koni's), granted they were used for a few months, but i still got a good deal. plain and simple, you get what you pay for, and i got the best i could for my car, i could have cheaped out and spent half as much and gotten crappy suspension, but why bother? the car will be lower, but handle like shit.

now hopefully this thing will have a chance at solo2 this summer :burnout:

carmex
03-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Whats the problem with 18's? Perfect size in my opinion...maybe thats just me, ha:dunno:

Redlyne_mr2
03-06-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by carmex
Whats the problem with 18's? Perfect size in my opinion...maybe thats just me, ha:dunno:
Depends on the car but for alot cars 18s are ass for handling

GTS Jeff
03-07-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by carmex
Whats the problem with 18's? Perfect size in my opinion...maybe thats just me, ha:dunno: hm, call me crazy, but smaller rims and tires give u less rotating mass and allow the car to sit lower...:dunno: