Terms affecting the Camaro release date

[Gripenfelter]

1. GM had a battle royal with both the CAW & the Quebec government trying to close down Ste Therese (Where 1993-2002 Camaros and Firebirds were built).

2. GM got a $200,000,000 INTREST FREE loan from Quebec (not due till 2017!! )& $100,000,000 in tax breaks in 1987 to produce the 4th gen Camaro there.

3. In that same agreement (done in 1987 NOT 1997) Ste. Therese won an exclusive agreement from GM to produce Camaros & Firebirds.... yes, and exclusive agreement!

4. By the mid to late 90s the Ste Threse plant was an albatross around GMs neck. Yet they did keep the plant going to most people in the know, long past it's usefulness.

5. GM has till 2005 to replace the jobs lost at Ste Therese with expanded jobs at other plants or has to pay a pension to anyone left who hasn't been rehired.

6. If GM's contract is with the Ste Therese plant. As long as the plant is standing or unsold, GM is committed to making the F-body at that plant!

8. As long as GM has an outstanding balence on it's NO INTREST LOAN from Quebec, it can not make anything called Camaro or Firebird (Rumour has it they have paid off these loans now!!).

9. GM is making investments & grants to Quebec in order to repay it's loans (Which they might have just paid off).

10. By indicating they are contemplating a new Camaro by mentioning it, General Motors would still be liable for breaking their agreements before it could be demonstrated that they have lived up to all terms of that contract.

General Motors would also be demonstrating bad faith if they made an announcement or indicated they were OFFICIALLY moving ahead with a new Camaro before all loans were paid, all CAW workers layed off were rehired (GM HAS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS NO LATER THAN 2005), and the Ste Therese plant was either sold or leveled!

This is pretty much what RP meant by one day we'll understand.

This information has been bouncing around from a number of people inside GM, but no one could publically be quoted. Using numberous press and media sources & stringing them together, this is the story without compromising anybody.

[1badPT]

French politics for you. At least the plants in Ontario are open because the labour there is a good value, not because the government is holding a gun to the manufacturers head. If the new camaro looks even half as good as those concept pics that were posted, it will be GM's return to making great cars :D

[t3rry]

Originally posted by 1badPT
French politics for you. At least the plants in Ontario are open because the labour there is a good value, not because the government is holding a gun to the manufacturers head. If the new camaro looks even half as good as those concept pics that were posted, it will be GM's return to making great cars :D

I dont think any sort of vehicle could make up for the CRAP GM has been releasing this year!

[1badPT]

The SSR is nice and so is the new Corvette and Vibe.

But, Chevy's new design cues I think are a step back from an already weak display of style. They have way too many models already with the impala and malibu, and their solution is to add two more vehicles - the epica and the optra - both of which are barely distinguishable, and neither of which bring anything new to Chevy's product line.

The Saturn Ion's got rave reviews from magazines, but are getting horrible reviews on the JDPower surveys which basically means the one part of GM that usually had high customer satisfaction is now suffering from buyer remorse. I have a friend who dumped his year old Ion at a $5000 loss and he was happy to do it to get into a car he actually liked (mazda 3).

Then you have so many crap vehicles piling up on GM dealership lots so the solution is not to make a better, faster selling product, its drop financing rates to zero, charge minimal markups on sales and if that doesn't destroy your resale value, the phone in lottery which guaranteed at least another 750 of the price will. Then Chryslers and Fords are stuck trying to compete at 0% financing and low markup and you basicaly have GM kicking the entire north american auto industry in the nuts.

Really GM needs to get back in the game, and start producing vehicles like a market leader should, but I don't think the company has the direction to do it - at least not with the current people.[/rant]

[Khyron]

I saw the Epica last year and it looked totally out of place among the sunfires and cavs. It looks real nice. Then I found out it's a rebadged daywoo (however you spell it).

Khyron

[1badPT]

What they need to do is find their version of focus and taurus - cars that can be produced a number of different ways all wearing the same name plate. The Optra might be their Focus if they re-engineer it a bit. Then they would have a compact that could conceivably offered in a coupe hatchback, 2 door wagon, 4 door wagon and finally a sedan. Then they'd just need a mid or full that could be delivered in wagon or sedan form. Then axe all the other shit in their product line up.

Then do a similar shuffle for the rest of their marquees.

[benyl]

I agree with PT.

Look at Chrysler. They eliminated Plymouth. The number of models they have is almost half of what they had 10 years ago.

Ford has done the same. They axed Mercury. They don't have many models either.

GM on the other hand has taken 5 years to kill Oldsmobile. It still isn't dead yet. Each of their cars has 3 or more versions: i.e. Malibu, Grand Am, Alero, Century, etc...

Why do they need Chevy Trucks and GMC?

[Gripenfelter]

I know some die hard Buick/Olds people.

My dad loves Buick Regals and would never consider a Pontiac Grand Prix eventhough they are the same car. He hates the Boy Racer styling.

[1badPT]

Yeah I know. I've mentioned my thoughts on this to other people and they say the same thing. I just wonder how low GM profitability has to plummet before they realize they have to make the same tough decisions that Ford and Chrysler already have done. Yeah they may lose out on some of the die hard fans of brands that probably aren't even profitable anymore-but its business they can afford to give up if they are taking a loss on it now. They should re-organize while they are still #1 because it will be hard as hell to work back up to that spot if and when they lose it.

[Khyron]

Execs at Ford and GM have both admitted to working only on trucks for the last decade and letting cars slide (they figured, already losing to the imports, why fight it). Now that the truck market is getting more and more competitive, they are refocusing back on cars.

Khyron

[cappachihngo]

hmm ya Gm is making ulgy POS these days, but ya the new vette looks pretty nice.. as for teh other chevs..... i duno about those...

[Gripenfelter]

Have you seen the Camaro Concepts?

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19897&highlight=camaro+concept

[hjr]

personally i dont think there is anything wrong with the stance the quebec government took. As mentioned, they gave them a HUGE interest free loan. Until that is payed off there is no reason why they should allow GM to just take the plant somewhere else.

[1badPT]

That's not the point - they essentially bought jobs off of GM by giving them dirty money. Why didn't they just make their labour force more attractive from a business perspective?

[Gripenfelter]

Interestingly enough the above info has been deleted from teh net after some GM Execs in charge of security found the links.

Here's some more info :rofl:

1. The politics involved was enough to make GMPD Boss Mark Reuss, and GM Chairman of Products & GM's European arm Bob Lutz backtrack on their statements on Camaro. Not because of some dark threat, but to leave open the chance to use the Camaro name in the future.

2. Though it's "possible" GM is working on a car that COULD be named Camaro & will "possibily" be out well before the decade's over, though GM owns the rights to the name, it WON'T use the name if it's going to ruffle feathers and become a sticking point with certain people.

3. The Ste. Therese plant's demolition has been blocked many times the past year (if you read the post before I dropped it, you know why).


There are people devoted to the Camaro "name" who will, if possible, bring it back. Trying to explain what happened at Ste. Therese with Camaro without jepordizing the use of the name in a future (or near future) car is like stepping through a minefield. Certain people are screamish about it. Enough so that they can convince a GM Chairman to backtrack. And since I value the name (and the people I talk to who may or may not have something to do with it) I've chosen to backtrack too.

The future car isn't the issue, but the name.