New Vs Used - Cash value of warranty and kms

[ExtraSlow]

So I'm sure this is a topic that a lot of folks have struggled with. I'm currently shopping for a truck, but the question applies to any type of vehicle.
Given that brand new vehicles haven't been abused and come with full warranty, obviously they are more desired, but what's the cash value of that preference?
in other words, how much cheaper does the used vehicle need to be to make it more desirable than new?

I'm comparing Brand new trucks that are around $38,000 after incentives and discounts to used trucks at around $28,000.
The 2-year-old used trucks typically have no bumper-to-bumper warranty remaining, but at least two years of powertrain left. Say around 60,000 kms on them.
And of course we are talking about used vehicles with clean records, no accidents, and comparable options.

I've included a poll

[Masked Bandit]

The "Peace of Mind" with respect to a new vehicle doesn't hold a lot of value for me. I normally buy used, one to three years old BUT it MUST have some bumper to bumper warranty left. I don't need much, three months or 5000 KM. That way any small issues can be fixed and I'm on my way. I really don't think that people who have the means to buy a brand new $50,000 claim and then trade it in two years later are going to drive the balls off the thing. Add in the fact that I normally change vehicles every two to four years and buying new just doesn't make sense for me. The wife on the other hand runs ten years before changing so the last one for her was brand new.

[corsvette]

I'd have no problems buying a used pickup, if it has service records/proof of maintenence that would be a bonus. If I was looking at a super full load (nav,dvd etc..) or unknown longterm reliability with potential of expensive problems (Ford ecoboost or a luxury vehicle) I'd want as much extended warranty as possible.

Last year I was helping a family friend shop for a used pickup, in the end a new truck with incentives was only $3-5,000 more than a comparable used with low kms. I know Ram and GM have some pretty good deals on new right now, Ford will too as a brand new model comes out next year.

[Weapon_R]

Financing plays the biggest factor in buying new, not peace of mind. My bet is half of the budget baller brigade you see is financed to the teeth and wouldn't be in any position to buy used. The real benefit is easy and cheap financing.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, it is probably a Ford Ecoboost I'm looking at. They are warrantied on that powertrain to 5 yrs/100,000 kms, so I'd have at least two years warranty remaining on anything I'm looking at.

And I'm not to fussy about financing, I've had a good year, so probably just going to pay cash unless there is some incentive on financing.

[r3ccOs]

for me, buying the latest of a late model with a moderate warranty is nice.

if its anything its piece of mind.

That being said... a brand new XLT 5.0L w/ warranty is like $34k + tax and a 2011 low KM XLT w/ the old 5.4 is still in the mid->high 20's...

I think it comes down to % of savings, figuring out TCO etc...

That being said, if I could get a 2011 low KM F150 with the "proven" 5.4 triton for more then 40% of a simular new vehicle, I probably would.

(even though the 5.4 had cam phaser and spark plug access problems)

[whiteout]

Up until lately, I've been able to work on my vehicles better than most mechanics so warranty hasn't been an issue for. When I bought my newer truck, I was saving over 50% for 4 year old model with a proven chassis and powertrain so I didn't mind not having warranty on it.

This will probably all change when I get married and have to buy a new car.

[Phihalo]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Financing plays the biggest factor in buying new, not peace of mind. My bet is half of the budget baller brigade you see is financed to the teeth and wouldn't be in any position to buy used. The real benefit is easy and cheap financing.

^This.

I bought a new car b/c:
0% finance
after factoring in the used car finance rate (3%+)
an older year car that would decrease the resale value

it's a no brainer for me. Personally I would rather pay a monthly (at zero cost on my end) and keep the remaining amount in my bank instead of paying a lump sum up front.

[ExtraSlow]

Some good thoughts here.
For the $34k truck, if you're looking at a 40% discount to buy a 2010 with low kms and the 5.4L engine(which I really liked BTW), you are hoping to pay about $20k for it. That's actually ahrd to find in a supercrew in decent shape.

Totally agree with the two posters above who mention how dis-advantageous financing can be on a used vehicle. If you are financing, new often makes so much sense.

Also, I suppose if a person is in a place to buy with cash, it's pretty easy to argue that you are better off getting the 0% financing and investing that money in some low-risk investment.

[never]

Originally posted by Phihalo


^This.

I bought a new car b/c:
0% finance
after factoring in the used car finance rate (3%+)
an older year car that would decrease the resale value

it's a no brainer for me. Personally I would rather pay a monthly (at zero cost on my end) and keep the remaining amount in my bank instead of paying a lump sum up front.

Even though you have zero cost on your end with 0% financing, you're still taking the initial depreciation hit which can be quite substantial on some cars.

[Phihalo]

Originally posted by no|uno


Even though you have zero cost on your end with 0% financing, you're still taking the initial depreciation hit which can be quite substantial on some cars.

This is very true indeed. However, the way I look at it is this: cars with high maintenance costs down the road will actually depreciate quicker when the bumper to bumper runs out. At the end of the day, I think we'll have to look at the following:

How long you are to keep the car (if you are driving it to the ground, then depreciation don't matter to you)
Do you have the money to buy it out right (if so, finance/monthly cash flow would not matter to you)
Maintenance cost of the vehicle down the road (I know that MB/BMW will hurt your pocket once the warranties are out) - if the cost is relatively cheap, then it's great to find a bargain used! :thumbsup:

[CapnCrunch]

For a truck I'd buy used. Sports car or motorcycle would be new.

[ExtraSlow]

One of the issues I'm finding with used trucks is that a lot of them have been driven by non-owners in a fleet setting.

One of the better deals I'm looking at is a 2012 with all the accessories I like, but it's got 100,000 kms, and is still only $9k off brand new. Anyone driving a pickup that much, probabyl spent at least 50% on gravel/mud. That mileage means it has zero warranty remaining on anything.

Maybe I'm dreaming when I think of a rich old farmer who drove his "good" truck a couple days a week, and some beater 1-ton when he really needed to do work.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
One of the issues I'm finding with used trucks is that a lot of them have been driven by non-owners in a fleet setting.

One of the better deals I'm looking at is a 2012 with all the accessories I like, but it's got 100,000 kms, and is still only $9k off brand new. Anyone driving a pickup that much, probabyl spent at least 50% on gravel/mud. That mileage means it has zero warranty remaining on anything.

Maybe I'm dreaming when I think of a rich old farmer who drove his "good" truck a couple days a week, and some beater 1-ton when he really needed to do work.

Usually those farmers drive their trucks until they die.

Or they don't know how to use the internet and can't post it on kijiji.

[ExtraSlow]

Hah, true. It's those rich jerks in the city who change trucks every couple of years.

[r3ccOs]

trucks right now are going through numerous refreshes, so late models (mostly proven) are the best value I've ever seen.

If you were to compare a F-150 to an equivlliently loaded Expedition, you couldn't $$$ wise. Heck a loaded XLT Supercrew with more space than and simular features would cost you probably 4k more!

Dodge has some agressive pricing as well.

SO if you think about it, you aren't eating much on depreciation, you get warranty and there are very attractive financing options + you can get what you want...

the ECO boost engine is without a doubt better than the 5.4, and you can get the axle configuration you want to best suit your towing requirements.

but I also can't deny that a low km 2010 5.4 for cheap is not a bad option neither.

Another option... used 2500

I like the added compentencies of the 2500... bigger strong diff and tranny being the key (nothing wrong with a Gas engine at our current diesel prices and our weather conditions)

[Ca_Silvia13]

Honestly how can you beat Ford or GM end of model pricing. Its usually 10k+ off and 0% Financing.

Even my buddy got 12k off his 2013 Titan when he bought it new, higher Nissan financing though.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, I'm very certain of my requirements, and a 3/4 ton truck is not required.
90% of my miles could be accomplished in a civic.

This is a great discussion though.

[ExtraSlow]

On another note, does anyone remember when the 2013 Friends and Family pricing event was? I thought may, but not 100% sure.

If the 2015's hit the lots, that'll help discounts on the 2014's, But I heard they might be delayed?

[benyl]

I have a 2010 FX4 Screw with all options except Nav I will sell you. Has 45K kms. haha

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow


One of the better deals I'm looking at is a 2012 with all the accessories I like, but it's got 100,000 kms, and is still only $9k off brand new.



That's a shit deal.

I just bought a 1 year old domestic truck, ~30,000kms, and for ~40% off of the sticker price.


Originally posted by ExtraSlow


Anyone driving a pickup that much, probabyl spent at least 50% on gravel/mud. That mileage means it has zero warranty remaining on anything.

What makes you think that? High mileage is usually tons of highway driving.

[ExtraSlow]

Hah, maybe it's because all the guys I work with who put 100,000 kms on thier trucks every year working out on the field. Those guys don't hit pavement that often.
I guess that useage may not be typical.

And yeah, it's not a "good" deal. I guess I mean that's one of the better trucks I've found. It's not a good enough deal for me to be seriously considering it.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
One of the issues I'm finding with used trucks is that a lot of them have been driven by non-owners in a fleet setting.

One of the better deals I'm looking at is a 2012 with all the accessories I like, but it's got 100,000 kms, and is still only $9k off brand new. Anyone driving a pickup that much, probabyl spent at least 50% on gravel/mud. That mileage means it has zero warranty remaining on anything.

Maybe I'm dreaming when I think of a rich old farmer who drove his "good" truck a couple days a week, and some beater 1-ton when he really needed to do work.

That's a garbage deal. Two summers ago I bought a two year old Ram 1500 Laramie (top trim), all factory options with only 23,xxx KM, full load, all the accessories anyone would want AND aftermarket warranty for $35,000. That truck with the accessories would have been $55,000 all day long. Those deals do indeed come up BUT you have to be ready to move right now when you find them. That truck hit the internet the night before, I found it at 10:00 AM and had a deal signed by 1:00 PM. There is no way that mint unit was going to sit around for much more than 48 hours.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Hah, maybe it's because all the guys I work with who put 100,000 kms on thier trucks every year working out on the field. Those guys don't hit pavement that often.
I guess that useage may not be typical.

And yeah, it's not a "good" deal. I guess I mean that's one of the better trucks I've found. It's not a good enough deal for me to be seriously considering it.

I guess they could be guys working in the field, but even so, I'd bet they spend less than 10% of their miles on gravel or dirt. I'd be more worried about them towing some 10,000 lb trailer at 120 on the highway for 6 hours.

Don't buy used if the price doesn't make sense. If you're only talking $9,000 for 100,000 kms, I would just buy a new one.

[ExtraSlow]

I think I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect. I've never bought a "nice" truck before, although Iv'e owned some beaters. I have done the math on other types of vehicles, and lightly useed has always looked like such a great deal. I'm struggling to find that "great" deal that I'm expecting.

Also so much easier buying used on imports. The thousands of option combinations on domestic pickups really muddies the water on comparison shopping.

[SkiBum5.0]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I think I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect. I've never bought a "nice" truck before, although Iv'e owned some beaters. I have done the math on other types of vehicles, and lightly useed has always looked like such a great deal. I'm struggling to find that "great" deal that I'm expecting.

Also so much easier buying used on imports. The thousands of option combinations on domestic pickups really muddies the water on comparison shopping.

Alberta is a unique market for newer used trucks. They are very hard to come by and demand for them is really high.
Here is my suggestion - go to the dealer of your choice. Ask the new car manager if he has a truck currently on "demo." I know for GM, their corporate managers pick-up a new truck from a dealer, drive it for 12,000km, then return it to the dealer to be sold as a "demo." The truck has never been titled so you would be the first owner. It also has the full warranty remaining due to it never being titled. GM Canada pays the dealer a fee for using the vehicle - this can be negotiated out of the truck.
For example:
2014 GMC Sierra All Terrain
MSRP: ~$55,000
GM Canada Payment to Dealer - ~$5000
Typical Incentives: $6000 (I don't know current promos)
Typical Negotiation: $2000

Total Price: $44,000

Also, for these vehicles new car financing applies so I think you can get 0% right now.

This gets you all the benefits of a new truck, with a portion of the savings of buying a used truck.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I think I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect. I've never bought a "nice" truck before, although Iv'e owned some beaters. I have done the math on other types of vehicles, and lightly useed has always looked like such a great deal. I'm struggling to find that "great" deal that I'm expecting.

Also so much easier buying used on imports. The thousands of option combinations on domestic pickups really muddies the water on comparison shopping.

I think part of the problem with domestics is the pricing. One guy buys a 2014 in September for near full msrp, another guy buys the same truck in December and gets like $15,000 off.

[SKR]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Maybe I'm dreaming when I think of a rich old farmer who drove his "good" truck a couple days a week, and some beater 1-ton when he really needed to do work.

Are you looking outside Calgary at small towns? I know there are lots of old guys back home who buy a new truck because they want something nice, but never use it for anything. Then they trade them in every couple years.

My dad bought a truck a couple years ago because the last new truck he bought was in 1997. I'd really be surprised if he has put 10,000km on it since then because he still uses the 97 for everything. He's different in that he'll keep that new truck until 2025 at this rate, but you're not wrong in thinking that old farmers have their go-to-town trucks and their work trucks.

I think those trucks are out there, it's just a matter of going to where they are.

Edit: I'll buy new if I can afford it because I want specific things, and don't want to settle for something that isn't exactly what I want. I can get the options I want and the colors I want without having to shop around. I would be more inclined to buy used if all I needed was 4 tires and a motor.

[ExtraSlow]

I haven't been driving around small towns if that's what you mean. Not sure if there is a good online resource for used trucks from old farmers. ;)

I assume most of those trucks would end up back at dealerships, and those dealerships do put thier stuff on autotrader and kijiji. I've seen stuff from Innisfail, Brooks, Fort Macleod etc.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I think I'm having a bit of a mental disconnect. I've never bought a "nice" truck before, although Iv'e owned some beaters. I have done the math on other types of vehicles, and lightly useed has always looked like such a great deal. I'm struggling to find that "great" deal that I'm expecting.

Also so much easier buying used on imports. The thousands of option combinations on domestic pickups really muddies the water on comparison shopping.

You are 100% right about the endless combinations of trim levels & options on domestic trucks. To know if you are truly getting a deal you really have to spend time learning about all the variables in the brand or two you're interested in. Otherwise you can end up with something you weren't aware of. I know far more about trim & option combinations of various years of domestic trucks than anyone ever should. That's why I don't have any room left in my head to remember things like what the wife said she wants for her birthday. I'm all full up on truck stuff...lol!

It wasn't all that long ago that a well known Beyonder bought a domestic truck that seemed like a "too good to be true" deal only to find out that one key component wasn't what he assumed it would be and then had to add in a bunch of aftermarket items to get the vehicle to do what he bought it for.

[SKR]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I haven't been driving around small towns if that's what you mean. Not sure if there is a good online resource for used trucks from old farmers. ;)

I assume most of those trucks would end up back at dealerships, and those dealerships do put thier stuff on autotrader and kijiji. I've seen stuff from Innisfail, Brooks, Fort Macleod etc.

I think the trucks you're looking for get snapped up pretty quick. When I traded my Dodge diesel in on my GMC, the Dodge was sold before I got off the lot. The salesman said he knew a guy who was looking for a truck like mine so he called him when I traded mine in. That might be what you have to do. I would call around and see if they'll keep an eye out for what you're looking for and call you if they get anything in.

I don't know how far you want to shop around, but I wouldn't be afraid to call dealers in Saskatchewan. Mainline in Rosetown moves a shitpile of GM trucks, and that's old farmer country.

[Cos]

.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

I'd only buy used again with cash or a low interest line of credit. I bought new because of interest rates and I didnt even get a great rate from Subaru (Toyota Credit)