Which public art piece is money better spent?

[speedog]

Spent a little bit of time this evening at the new Chinook Arc public art piece in Barb Scott Park (SE corner of 12th Avenue and 9th Street SW) and when I compare the $370,000 spent on this compared to the $387,000 blue ring, I would say the Chinook Arc piece is definitely tax monies better spent.

The Chinook Arc interactive art piece is kind of neat and definitely had people interested in it and interacting with it tonight. The blue ring - well I've never seen anyone in person there although it is not really easily accessible.

Never the less, if we're going to spend public monies on art, then give us more like the Chinook Arc.

[Nitro5]

I don't mind the 1% budget for art, but that money should go back into the local economy, not spent in Germany to ship a massive cock-ring.

If no local artist can be found, at least in the province.

[Masked Bandit]

The other day when we were out as a family we drove past the blue ring and my kids asked what it was. I told them it was art and that it cost $400,000. They both said Nenshi should be fired for doing something that dumb. When a six year old & ten year old see the idiocy of that much money for a circle, how can any adult even consider it to be reasonable?

[rage2]

But he's only 1 vote!

[ZenOps]

This isn't a democracy.

Not one single constituent voted Rob Anders out, and yet he has been axed. You are going to pay for million dollar art and like it dagnabit. Now eat your oatmeal.

[speedog]

How many have actually been down to the Chinook Arc piece to make a valid judgement call on what I've compared?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Nitro5


If no local artist can be found, at least in the province.

When they use local artists we end up with cows all over town or a giant metal Stetson hat.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Is it this?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/cms/binary/9734827.jpg

based on the shopping cart wheels tucked away at the bottom, it looks like an expensive homeless shelter with a 3 cart garage

Better than the Blue Ring... but still a total waste of money, that costs as much as some peoples real homes
Not shopping cart wheels - more like moveable scaffolding.

Never the less, if we're going to spend public tax dollars on art which piece is more palatable?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Option C) Neither :dunno:

For 370K they could have done an entire low maintenance park complete with native trees, shrubs, and sponsored memorial benches... would have been far nicer for people to spend time around than this

100% agreed.

Who approves the "art" that gets chosen anyways? They should have been fired long ago as they are likely taking a kickback from the artist for what is being paid.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by rage2
But he's only 1 vote!

If the art projects were better received all we'd hear is how it was all his initiative :rolleyes:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[speedog]

All this ranting aside, public art is here to stay - it's been a part of Calgary's landscape since I moved here in 1979 and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. As far as people thinking pockets are being padded or whatever, probably not happening - anytime a project starts involving big business or government, there is going to be extra costs because of all the beauracracy and red tape that comes with these large organizations. My last seven years at TELUS was in network engineering and project management and that was a real eye opener with respect to how little projects could quickly become bloated - an art project like the $387,000 blue ring, the dollar amount isn't out of line.

As far as the selection committees, I believe the average joe blow can have input or even sit on these committees - problem is most of us don't want to be bothered, I know I don't want to be and that probably is the same for all other Beyond arm-chair critics. Finally, the cost to create a low maintenance park as suggested above would probably easily exceed these two specific art project's outlays as well and in the case of the blue ring site, who exactly would be going to a memorial/low maintenance park there - it's just not in a place that people really want to hang out. What needs to happen and this is if every project has to include art in it's budget, the art monies have to be capable of being placed where they'll be appreciated/enjoyed by the public. Not on the side of a highway slope between a freeway and a railroad with no public access - the Chinook Arc, it's well placed.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Option C) Neither :dunno:

For 370K they could have done an entire low maintenance park complete with native trees, shrubs, and sponsored memorial benches... would have been far nicer for people to spend time around than this


We should scrap the art budget and use it towards improving or creating nice public spaces. That would make Calgary a lot nicer than just paying some asshole at Heavy Industry (or whatever the fuck the name is of that elitist company is that mysteriously seems to endlessly get all of these contracts) millions of tax dollars for garbage every year.

Are you serious? If you give the city a free $370K to spend you're going to end up with a lane shut down on Deerfoot and turned into a permanent cycling lane.

[supe]

Yeah I'm with speedog. Without the artwork this city would be a pretty lame. Its a tiny piece of the budget. If you have a problem with the dollar amounts, do something about it, not just complain. I personally think the peace bridge looks awesome, the blue ring... well its a conversation piece.

[Lex350]

Art is very subjective but it doesn't mean we don't need it around our city. That fact that we all debate it is merit enough. It is something that brings character to our city even if it is a giant cock ring. These debates have gone on in other more worldly cities around the globe. Art will always be a hit or miss kind of thing with most people.

[speedog]

Originally posted by supe
Yeah I'm with speedog. Without the artwork this city would be a pretty lame. Its a tiny piece of the budget. If you have a problem with the dollar amounts, do something about it, not just complain. I personally think the peace bridge looks awesome, the blue ring... well its a conversation piece.
With the blue ring, maybe the $387,000 should've been spent on an art piece/whatever further west on 96th Avenue on the south side of the community of Harvest Hills - maybe as a feature pedestrian entrance point to Nose Creek Parkway, something that maybe commemorates some of the original settlers of the area or how Nose Creek was used by natives or early explorers. There just needs to be some flexibility on the placement of these art monies allotted to these projects - the Airport Tunnel art budget will put the blue ring to shame, let's hope it's something good and situated in an accessible space.

[ZenOps]

I always thought we needed a big barrel of oil as an artpiece.

Whos with me?

[LOLzilla]

Public art is a good idea. There needs to be strings attached though, local artists get priority. Shipping from Germany? Get out of here. Keep the money local.

[Kloubek]

Art is subjective, but I think we can all agree this is at least a better attempt than the big blue ring. I think the art council/panel should be fired, personally.

If this piece ended up looking like the original renderings, I might actually be pretty fond of it. It looked big (like the Chicago bean) and seamless:

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2594722.1396388243!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/chinook-arc.jpg

...but instead, we got this:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10170984_837971649564556_7962651653169255567_n.jpg

[speedog]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
The other day when we were out as a family we drove past the blue ring and my kids asked what it was. I told them it was art and that it cost $400,000. They both said Nenshi should be fired for doing something that dumb. When a six year old & ten year old see the idiocy of that much money for a circle, how can any adult even consider it to be reasonable?

Just to clear things up, the blue ring (called Travelling Light) was commissioned before Nenshi was elected as mayor - Nenshi's comments on this blue ring are also interesting. Also, a committee of 5 was involved in these pieces selection which included someone from a nearby community, probably Harvest Hills, plus there was community consultation - question is how many community members ever bothered to get out to what was probably a public consultation? Above is referenced from this CBC News article (link (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/mayor-calls-470k-blue-ring-billed-as-public-art-awful-1.1930104)).

So dis-information/misinformation is once again rearing it's ugly head - even I was thinking "that damn Nenshi" with respect to the blue ring until a little voice told me that there might be more to this and a simple little Google search showed that there indeed was.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by supe
Yeah I'm with speedog. Without the artwork this city would be a pretty lame. Its a tiny piece of the budget. If you have a problem with the dollar amounts, do something about it, not just complain. I personally think the peace bridge looks awesome, the blue ring... well its a conversation piece.

Ya you're right. I thought this place was a dump, then I saw a giant blue ring, finger trap bridge and a glowy coloured cloud and I thought "wow what a progressive and vibrant place!"

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Is it this?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/cms/binary/9734827.jpg

based on the shopping cart wheels tucked away at the bottom, it looks like an expensive homeless shelter with a 3 cart garage

Better than the Blue Ring... but still a total waste of money, that costs as much as some peoples real homes

I drive by this daily and I hadn't a clue it was 'art' until I saw this thread. It looks like some unfinished POS, I don't even know what. It looks like a total hack job as well, and completely unfinished. Right up there with the ring IMO.

I'm all for making the city look better, but bringing in the crappiest 'art' imaginable that many don't even know what it is...c'mon.

I'd rather see that 1% go toward making transportation better somehow, or literally anywhere else...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[speedog]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Ya you're right. I thought this place was a dump, then I saw a giant blue ring and a glowy coloured cloud and I thought "wow what a progressive and vibrant place!"
So what would you rather have - public artwork is a part of every major project's budget and until as such time that gets changed, then we best be getting the best bang for our back.

rx_turbo2, toss your ideas out there - the airport tunnel project's art budget portion is around $1,500,000.. Now I'm fully expecting some ridiculous retorts but realistically this art budget money will be spent and as such, what do you think it should be? Personally I don't want to see it placed in the tunnel - that's for sure.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Why don't we stop putting up art which as you mentioned is subjective and often controversial in nature that only a few people enjoy for a few seconds at best.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, just like the bike lanes, "if you build it they will come". Sure these eye sores are enjoyed by an extreme minority now, but it you slam them all over the place, and cram them down peoples throats under the guise of progressiveness and vibrancy, before you know it these installations will have shoulder to shoulder spectators, and people throughout the world will talk about how Calgary has become a "World Class Destination"

It's you, you're looking at this all wrong.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I drive by this daily and I hadn't a clue it was 'art' until I saw this thread. It looks like some unfinished POS, I don't even know what. It looks like a total hack job as well, and completely unfinished. Right up there with the ring IMO.

I'm all for making the city look better, but bringing in the crappiest 'art' imaginable that many don't even know what it is...c'mon.

I'd rather see that 1% go toward making transportation better somehow, or literally anywhere else...
And there 's the rub - the 1% art piece is part of any major project's budget and until that is changed, we're stuck with it. Bleating about it should be used for something else isn't going to change what's currently in place - maybe a email expressing your concerns to your mayor and councilor might be a start but what we've got now is what we've got.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by speedog
rx7_turbo2, toss your ideas out there - the airport tunnel project's art budget portion is around $1,500,000.. Now I'm fully expecting some ridiculous retorts but realistically this art budget money will be spent and as such, what do you think it should be? Personally I don't want to see it placed in the tunnel - that's for sure.

No ridiculous retorts. I'd rather the money not be allocated, but I understand it will be regardless. What will I do about it? Sweet fuck all, well with the exception of bitching on this forum, and to anyone in my car while I drive by.

Why do people always have to "do something about it"? I like to bitch and complain. I dislike a whole myriad of things in life, I do very little about most of them. Shit I bitch about my wife all the time, one good blow job makes me forget about all the teeth dragging she did when we first started dating. Maybe The City will follow her lead and knock one of these art installations out of the park and I'll forget about all the crappy ones before it.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
No ridiculous retorts. I'd rather the money not be allocated, but I understand it will be regardless. What will I do about it? Sweet fuck all, well with the exception of bitching on this forum, and to anyone in my car while I drive by.

Why do people always have to "do something about it"? I like to bitch and complain. I dislike a whole myriad of things in life, I do very little about most of them. Shit I bitch about my wife all the time, one good blow job makes me forget about all the teeth dragging she did when we first started dating. Maybe The City will follow her lead and knock one of these art installations out of the park and I'll forget about all the crappy ones before it.
Because sometimes involvement brings about change - have seen it first hand in our community with our outdoor pool that we saved some 10+ years ago. The problem is that we can't rely upon our elected officials doing what we all think is best - once in power and then being educated on everything that it takes to run a city, that politician's priorities may change. Work for any large corporation or union and be involved at the upper levels and you'll soon find that there is much going on that the average joe just isn't aware of - even at a simple community association level, there's lots of shit going on that the average home owner is blissfully unaware of.

Bitching - we all do it, I'm as good as the next person at it. But if something really grinds your gears, then a little bit more than crabbing may be required.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by speedog
Bitching - we all do it, I'm as good as the next person at it. But if something really grinds your gears, then a little bit more than crabbing may be required.

That's just it. These art installation don't "grind my gears" enough to do anything about it.

I think they're a waste of time and money, but the City would find a way to waste that money somewhere else. Would I vote for a Councilman based solely on their opposition to art installations and bike lanes? I'd be an idiot if I did. Their opposition might factor in to my decision but there will be a list of other factors as well.

Maybe one day something in my community and the City will pop up and motivate me to "do something" but as of right now I don't feel like doing anything other than bitch. Look at my avatar, does that look like a guy you want out campaigning for a public pool in the community, where small children will frolic ;)

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
The other day when we were out as a family we drove past the blue ring and my kids asked what it was. I told them it was art and that it cost $400,000. They both said Nenshi should be fired for doing something that dumb. When a six year old & ten year old see the idiocy of that much money for a circle, how can any adult even consider it to be reasonable?

Yes, but you're kids aren't cultured enough in the fine arts! This sort of thing is what Calgary needs to not be a redneck hick cesspool and will make it a world class city! Don't you see, without pieces of art like this, society decays into nothingness! Art is a necessary piece of society that has effects in your everyday life!

:banghead:

[sexualbanana]

I like it. I think it looks pretty cool. Especially at night.

Really, I think the tough part of these art installations is determining a location to put them where it can be seen and appreciated. The big blue ring may (a big may) have worked if it was in a more pedestrian friendly location rather than out in the middle of fucking nowhere.

The Chinook Arc could be a big attention getter. It's in a better spot than the ring, but still not too much pedestrian traffic to attract the attention it should. I think the Chicago Bean is located in the middle of downtown with a lot of pedestrian traffic day and night, and that's the kind of traffic it should get.

[icky2unk]

For $5,000 they could just get a 5 Foot Dunny hah. I mean they display these in the MoMA in NYC. May as well get something practical.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h9bLlbezuAI/TV7SwGVfm4I/AAAAAAAAAtc/bN98pMUoonY/s1600/4_4.jpghttp://blog.kidrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Aaron-Brothers-Dunny-Auction-hernandez-1.jpg

Get a local artist to paint it and plump it on steven ave. Good to go.

For $400,000 i'm sure KidRobot would commission a couple 20 Foot Dunny's lol.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Option C) Neither :dunno:

For 370K they could have done an entire low maintenance park complete with native trees, shrubs, and sponsored memorial benches... would have been far nicer for people to spend time around than this



This

[Toma]

Tax dollar funding of art should be suspended until we can afford to clean the streets properly, and other necessities.

The kind of money they are spending on "art" is fucking retarded.

Do it like they did it when I was in school.... donations.

BULLSHIT!

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by supe
Yeah I'm with speedog. Without the artwork this city would be a pretty lame. Its a tiny piece of the budget. If you have a problem with the dollar amounts, do something about it, not just complain. I personally think the peace bridge looks awesome, the blue ring... well its a conversation piece.

My thoughts too. So many whiny people in this city that hate everything. Heaven forbid we have some art and culture in fucking cow town.. lol.

F the haters, the peace bridge is awesome. :poosie:


Originally posted by speedog


Just to clear things up, the blue ring (called Travelling Light) was commissioned before Nenshi was elected as mayor - Nenshi's comments on this blue ring are also interesting. Also, a committee of 5 was involved in these pieces selection which included someone from a nearby community, probably Harvest Hills, plus there was community consultation - question is how many community members ever bothered to get out to what was probably a public consultation? Above is referenced from this CBC News article (link (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/mayor-calls-470k-blue-ring-billed-as-public-art-awful-1.1930104)).

So dis-information/misinformation is once again rearing it's ugly head - even I was thinking "that damn Nenshi" with respect to the blue ring until a little voice told me that there might be more to this and a simple little Google search showed that there indeed was.

Shhh, everything is Nenshi's fault he sucks yada yada yada another day on Beyond.

[Maxt]

I just don't think subjective things like public art that aren't really part of the nuts and bolts functionality of the city should be paid through mandatory collected tax dollars.
Propose the piece or pieces to the public with a price tag, set up a website with ETF or paypal, and let everyone who talks about loving the concept of the art put their money where their mouth is. Then the people who support it, can say they support it and those that hate it can be happy they didn't contribute to it. Pretty damn easy.:dunno:

[90_Shelby]

Speaking of art, does anyone know what happened to the upside down church in Ramsay?

[speedog]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby
Speaking of art, does anyone know what happened to the upside down church in Ramsay?
Gonzo - 5 year lease on that piece (Device to Root Out Evil ) expired and it was removed (link (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Ramsay+famous+upside+down+church+uprooted+after+lease+expires/9382601/story.html)).

I wonder if the geocache that was located on it went with it?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z2pHzAALpBw/UZVjAr3rCLI/AAAAAAAACAk/uOeDRrXIepc/s1600/1B1AE38C-5319-487B-A332-5890551F7C0B.JPG

[ZenOps]

I blame Rob Ande... Ahhh crap, running out of people to blame.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by ZenOps
I blame Rob Ande... Ahhh crap, running out of people to blame.

Jews. It's always the Jews.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[MalibuStacy]

Originally posted by ZEDGE

Shhh, everything is Nenshi's fault he sucks yada yada yada another day on Beyond.

Did you expect something else?

Personally I find that by and large this 1% art budget is a good thing. Some, such as the blue ring are silly, poorly planned or poorly discussed. I think that perhaps public art should be chosen by the public, perhaps a bit more public forum is needed (meetings, community votes etc) so that more of this art is responsibly set and created.

Public art is something which can bring more life into an area (not necessarily the blue ring). Speaking from personal experience, many of my classmates (UC Urban Studies) say that they think Calgary is boring, they think that largely the city is just a place to live. By adding art you make the city less utilitarian and cold. I feel like most of you on here are mostly upset over budget costs, and are not really looking at the bigger picture of how this acts on the people in this city.

In regards to this thread, I actually really like this new Chinook arc thing. Coulda been in a more central area (17th Ave?) but still better then the blue ring.

[FraserB]

Glenmore Fish > Finger Trap Bridge >>> Chinook Arc >>>> Blue Ring

[speedog]

Originally posted by FraserB
Glenmore Fish > Finger Trap Bridge >>> Chinook Arc >>>> Blue Ring
And yet there are many who are quite critical of the Glenmore fish while there are probably many others who aren't even aware that that is where that project's art monies went.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Funny you brought that up; I was reading that the Chicago Bean ended up costing around 23 million


Wow - that's ridiculous! Granted, it's a pretty cool piece I'd be proud to have here in Calgary. It's quite an experience being under that thing, since it's so reflective.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Funny you brought that up; I was reading that the Chicago Bean ended up costing around 23 million.
Could almost get another Peace Bridge, eh.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by speedog

And yet there are many who are quite critical of the Glenmore fish while there are probably many others who aren't even aware that that is where that project's art monies went.

Seems like we got more for our money with the fish, since some of the money was also spent on the MSE walls that have the "river" formed into them.

Either way, working on that stuff helped me buy my first car.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by MalibuStacy


many of my classmates (UC Urban Studies)

So basically, your biased sample supported your world view that art is money well spent when it comes to public funding?

I think a racing facility is public money well spent, and you don't see a government subsidized race track do you now? :dunno:

Maybe there are a couple more university courses you should have taken about proper data sampling...

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
You snipped out the part where I mentioned it was privately funded... I really would have no problem with the peace bridge if it was funded out of Druh's personal account.
Old guy here didn't actually intend to omit anything - only saw the $ amounts.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog

And yet there are many who are quite critical of the Glenmore fish while there are probably many others who aren't even aware that that is where that project's art monies went.

I like the fish because it's actually quite funny when the underpass floods.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
No worries, I just meant that if a lot of these public art items were privately funded they would get a lot warmer reception

I agree with this completely. For things that are so wildly subjective, let the people who care about them fund it, and use the 1% for things that actually benefit the masses. You'll never please everyone, but I would think most people would rather have better roads or a functioning transit system than the blue ring or the blob on 12th ave that looks like an unfinished paper mache project.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


[...] but I would think most people would rather have better roads or a functioning transit system than the blue ring or the blob on 12th ave that looks like an unfinished paper mache project.

So.. $370,000 + $387,000 = $757k. Calgary is just $757k away from better roads OR a functioning transit system?!?

Maybe a bake sale or 2 could push you guys over the top?

Heck, raise just $1.5M and you could fix both systems!!

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by MalibuStacy
Speaking from personal experience, many of my classmates (UC Urban Studies) say that they think Calgary is boring, they think that largely the city is just a place to live.

I still can't figure out why that's a bad thing :dunno:

"Largely the city is just a place to live". When did that become not enough? Sounds like it's time for some Urban Studies students to get out in the real world. Shit I take that back for fear The City might hire them.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I still can't figure out why that's a bad thing :dunno:

"Largely the city is just a place to live". When did that become not enough?

When people realized their lives didn't need to be so shitty every day.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


When people realized their lives didn't need to be so shitty every day.

Subjective art installations = Less shitty life. Good to know, good to know :rofl:

I would have gone with........oh I don't know a plethora of quality job opportunities but I guess a glowy cloud thing works too.

[speedog]

Here y'all go - city council will be debating this very art budget issue this Thursday (link to CBC News story (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/should-calgary-be-spending-less-on-public-art-1.2648171))...


Should Calgary be spending less on public art?

Calgary's public art policy will be under the microscope at a city council committee meeting Tuesday.

There is a proposal to reduce the amount of money the city spends on public art and to give Calgarians more of a say on what projects are approved.

The current city policy directs one per cent of a capital project's budget towards public works of art.

It has resulted in some controversial pieces, such as the $470,000 ring of blue steel at Deerfoot Trail and 96th Avenue N.E. called Travelling Light by the Berlin-based group Inges Idee.

After it was unveiled last year it drew criticism from many Calgarians, including Mayor Naheed Nenshi.

“I don't like it. I think it's awful. I understand that it's a work of engineering feat to balance it on its edge like that. I think it's terrible,” he said.

Under the proposed changes to the policy, members of the public would be given more say on what works are selected by an advisory panel and the amount of money that can be spent on public art would be capped.

Coun. Shane Keating says the changes are intended to maintain public confidence in the program.

“We just want to say, 'You know what? We really believe that we got value for the dollar regardless of what it looks like'... and we've had a number of these where it hasn't happened that way,” he said.

Public art has value and not everyone will like every piece —​ but the program must have most Calgarians' support for it to succeed, Keating said.
Should be interesting to hear what comes of all of this - was going to bold a section of the quoted text above but I figure that every beyond member is more then capable of digesting this quoted text and determining how at least one council member views the blue ring.

[Toma]

Icing on the cake, like publicly funded "Art" should ONLY happen when we are in the black, and have a balanced city budget. They had to cut $700,000 from the street cleaning budget, which is an obvious requirement and safety issue, but how much did they spend on "art"??? I would say cut all publicly funded art spending, and certainly not the ludicrous amount of 1% of project cost, UNTIL we can afford such frivolous spending.

You can't force me to "buy"art for my home. Why should you be able to force me to buy art for the public.

[n1zm0]

I vote we go get all those old soviet monuments and busts of Lenin, rechisel Vlad's face to make it look like Nenshi. No one in the CISs want them anyway, all for free.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by speedog

Could almost get another Peace Bridge, eh.

I went looking at condos around Eau Claire and have to say, that bridge is quite nice.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Toma
Icing on the cake, like publicly funded "Art" should ONLY happen when we are in the black, and have a balanced city budget. They had to cut $700,000 from the street cleaning budget, which is an obvious requirement and safety issue, but how much did they spend on "art"??? I would say cut all publicly funded art spending, and certainly not the ludicrous amount of 1% of project cost, UNTIL we can afford such frivolous spending.

You can't force me to "buy"art for my home. Why should you be able to force me to buy art for the public.

Then we will NEVER have art. Everything else is higher priority and we WILL never be in the black.

[speedog]

Oh hell - a picture of the damn thing just keep people up to speed. Man, I get a little shiver every time I'm on Deerfoot and drive by the thing...

Traveling Light
http://heavyindustries.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/TravellingLightPortfolio1.jpg

Other "public" Calgary art pieces...

Chinook Arc
http://www.creativemachines.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/web_IMG_0010.jpg

The Winner
http://heavyindustries.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/990510_Johnson-The_Winner_-_Image_-_003.jpg

Wishing Well
http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertainment/cms/binary/9017036.jpg

Transit Story
http://www.getdown.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/IMG_0220.jpg

The Promenade
http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertainment/cms/binary/9087617.jpg

Iron Horse
http://www.clevermag.com/images06/calgary/arthorse.jpg

The Field Manual. A compendium of local influence
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7376/9423753535_28d978bcc3_o.jpg

[Sugarphreak]

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[Toma]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Then we will NEVER have art. Everything else is higher priority and we WILL never be in the black.

Outright LIE!.

Forcing people to BUY art is plain wrong.

There have ALWAYS been, and will ALWAYS be donated art pieces, private donation, school kids at all levels VOLUNTEERING to contribute, corporations showing off or looking for a tax write off....

Cutting a NECESSITY for a LUXURY is fucking bullshit.

Should be like the school system. Do you support Public or Catholic....

Except on the census, they ask you if you support public art, and should charge YOU more if you like it so much.

[Toma]

"The Winner" as far as I knew was donated....

[Toma]

Lets say a local artist wants to make a name for herself and donate a publicly displayed piece.

What loop holes would she have to jump through to get it on display somewhere at no cost to the city?

Would the city allow it, or would they call it advertising, and try and get revenue from her?

Seriously.... how does that work?

[speedog]

Originally posted by Toma
"The Winner" as far as I knew was donated....
Was just compiling a small list - not interested in debating whether a piece is donated or not.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Toma
Icing on the cake, like publicly funded "Art" should ONLY happen when we are in the black, and have a balanced city budget. They had to cut $700,000 from the street cleaning budget, which is an obvious requirement and safety issue, but how much did they spend on "art"??? I would say cut all publicly funded art spending, and certainly not the ludicrous amount of 1% of project cost, UNTIL we can afford such frivolous spending.

You can't force me to "buy"art for my home. Why should you be able to force me to buy art for the public.
Toma's on a roll, that's like 2 threads where I'm agreeing with him haha.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Toma
Icing on the cake, like publicly funded "Art" should ONLY happen when we are in the black, and have a balanced city budget. They had to cut $700,000 from the street cleaning budget, which is an obvious requirement and safety issue, but how much did they spend on "art"??? I would say cut all publicly funded art spending, and certainly not the ludicrous amount of 1% of project cost, UNTIL we can afford such frivolous spending.

You can't force me to "buy"art for my home. Why should you be able to force me to buy art for the public.
K, I'll bite - why is "street cleaning" an obvious requirement and safety issue.

Now please know that I'm not condoning mandatory budget monies for public art but at the same time, I am more than capable of driving my vehicles around on our roads as they are. Maybe instead of spreading pea gravel, salt , deicers and what not all over the place, there should be a mandatory winter tire law put into place - then the CoC would have to spend much less of our tax dollars cleaning all the crud off of our streets.

As far as a balanced city budget, well a snowball has a better chance in hell IMHO. There's been so many projects over the years that have blown out their budgets and yet the builders still got paid - it's just tax money, eh.

Two notorious ones from the past - both the Saddledome and the Centre Street bridge rebuild projects went way over budget. Did the contractors in this case not get paid for going over budget - I highly doubt it. Did anyone get their fingers slapped for gong over budget - probably not. Did we learn anything to prevent further over runs - nope, because it still happens.

So a balanced budget is like a fart in the wind - doesn't stand a chance and knowing that, then budgets have to accommodate artsie-fartsie stuff and stuff like new schools when there's old ones sitting under utilized. People in the burbs are going to want their leisure centers, their arenas and soccer fields. Easy to sit here and say that art should be the first thing cut but there's many out there who couldn't give a damn about better roads or new schools or arenas or pea gravel being cleaned off of our roads.

Thus, let's get the money spent better - at least no more blue rings.

[Ca_Silvia13]

Originally posted by Toma




Forcing people to BUY art is plain wrong.



Cutting a NECESSITY for a LUXURY is fucking bullshit.



Nailed it

[schocker]

Originally posted by speedog

K, I'll bite - why is "street cleaning" an obvious requirement and safety issue.
Causes traction loss with bikes/cars, need to remove all the stuff also from moving down the drain with all of the train as it is bad for the environment.

I agree with Toma here though too :eek:

[FraserB]

The $700,000 cut is not coming from not clearing roads. This has been made clear a whole bunch, but people just ignore it and try to argue the exact opposite.

They are simply taking longer to clear them and not taking requests for a re-sweep. Basically they eliminate a bunch of OT/shift premiums, save some fuel costs and each street only gets done once even if there were a ton of cars parked there preventing 100% sweep.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by FraserB
The $700,000 cut is not coming from not clearing roads... each street only gets done once even if there were a ton of cars parked there preventing 100% sweep.

So... the cost cutting is coming from clearing roads? Right? :rofl:

[FraserB]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


So... the cost cutting is coming from clearing roads? Right? :rofl:

The savings is in eliminating a useless and wasteful step from the process.

They shouldn't be coming back to a street a second time. Period.

Between the CofC website, the news and the signs in neighborhoods, there is more than enough warning and information provided. No reason there should be cars there, if there are, then too bad.

[e31]

I've decided to express my disappointment thru a poorly photographed series titled:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, the Price of Public Art in Calgary

http://s28.postimg.org/xminnerj0/119k.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/wiyjbg6vw/24k.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/xqh2heme4/470k.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/4zk8rcgkc/370k.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/ugy1x78ws/185k.jpg

[ercchry]

Originally posted by FraserB


The savings is in eliminating a useless and wasteful step from the process.

They shouldn't be coming back to a street a second time. Period.

Between the CofC website, the news and the signs in neighborhoods, there is more than enough warning and information provided. No reason there should be cars there, if there are, then too bad.

you'd think so... but of course that one dickhead neighbor just has to leave his car on the street.... and of course its parked in front of my house... cause you know... he is a dickhead... i think im going to hand him a broom next time i see him.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Is it this?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/cms/binary/9734827.jpg

based on the shopping cart wheels tucked away at the bottom, it looks like an expensive homeless shelter with a 3 cart garage

Better than the Blue Ring... but still a total waste of money, that costs as much as some peoples real homes

It's funny cause the concept art shows kids running through it and the news said "it's very interactive, you can walk underneath it and explore it, like the giant head"


http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/04/arc-final-2.jpg
http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/04/arc-final-1.jpg

Yeah, seeing how it turned out, I don't think that's the case

[finboy]

Seeing how it turned out, it looks like some plastic wrap got caught on scaffolding :dunno:

[Toma]

Street cleaning has been going down hill for years. They did a MUCH better job 5 or 6 years ago.

It's been slowly compromised. Even the water works guys noticed it.... The storm drain/ catch basin in front of my house floods more and more frequently. Everytime they clean it, it's just dirt and mud.

Last week during the rain, they came to clean it, and I asked what the deal was, why it's an increasing problem, and they said they thought it was poor street cleaning. They don't do as complete a job as they did when they did streets one day, avenues the next, it was advertised, flyers, no parking signs, towed stragglers etc.... clean. last few years, always tons of shit left after a "cleaning".

[suntan]

OMG Toma must have been replaced with another Toma.

[Toma]

Originally posted by suntan
OMG Toma must have been replaced with another Toma.

My positions are consistent, and logical...

Everyone that disagrees with me either lacks logic, or is a flip flopper lacking a compass ;) :poosie:

[AG_Styles]

Should Calgary be spending less on public art?

Calgary's public art policy will be under the microscope at a city council committee meeting Tuesday.

There is a proposal to reduce the amount of money the city spends on public art and to give Calgarians more of a say on what projects are approved.

The current city policy directs one per cent of a capital project's budget towards public works of art.

It has resulted in some controversial pieces, such as the $470,000 ring of blue steel at Deerfoot Trail and 96th Avenue N.E. called Travelling Light by the Berlin-based group Inges Idee.

After it was unveiled last year it drew criticism from many Calgarians, including Mayor Naheed Nenshi.

“I don't like it. I think it's awful. I understand that it's a work of engineering feat to balance it on its edge like that. I think it's terrible,” he said.

Under the proposed changes to the policy, members of the public would be given more say on what works are selected by an advisory panel and the amount of money that can be spent on public art would be capped.

Coun. Shane Keating says the changes are intended to maintain public confidence in the program.

“We just want to say, 'You know what? We really believe that we got value for the dollar regardless of what it looks like'... and we've had a number of these where it hasn't happened that way,” he said.

Public art has value and not everyone will like every piece —​ but the program must have most Calgarians' support for it to succeed, Keating said.

:D waiting to see what Druh Farrell says during this meeting.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Toma


My positions are consistent, and logical...

Everyone that disagrees with me either lacks logic, or is a flip flopper lacking a compass ;) :poosie: I like that. I like that a lot. I'll buy you a beer anytime.

[speedog]

Originally posted by schocker
Causes traction loss with bikes/cars, need to remove all the stuff also from moving down the drain with all of the train as it is bad for the environment.

I agree with Toma here though too :eek:

Traction loss - pffft.

I haven't felt one bit less safe despite most of the pea gravel still down on the streets I regularly travel.

The real solution is to mandate winter tires and not put the pea gravel down - a double savings because you don't have to buy it and spread it and then pick it back up again.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by AG_Styles


:D waiting to see what Druh Farrell says during this meeting.
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aZP3Ym0_700b.jpg

[Nitro5]

If we are going to spend money on art it should go locally so it goes back into he local economy.

[euro_racer]

This city is slowly becoming a shit show as a whole and IMO they are focusing to "improve" the way the city looks in ways that seem to make no sense to the majority of citizens. Maintenance programs have noticibly gone downhill while they spend money on building new things. Roads seem to have never been worse for potholes, it's taking forever to plow and clean the streets, and the damn dandelions are invading most of the grass in this city- I swear some places have a 70/30 ratio of yellow to green.

[speedog]

Originally posted by euro_racer
This city is slowly becoming a shit show as a whole and IMO they are focusing to "improve" the way the city looks in ways that seem to make no sense to the majority of citizens. Maintenance programs have noticibly gone downhill while they spend money on building new things. Roads seem to have never been worse for potholes, it's taking forever to plow and clean the streets, and the damn dandelions are invading most of the grass in this city- I swear some places have a 70/30 ratio of yellow to green.

The dandelion issue is because the government of Alberta took dandelions off of the noxious weed list - this means that dandelions no longer have to be legally controlled.

[NoMoreG35]

Originally posted by euro_racer
This city is slowly becoming a shit show as a whole and IMO they are focusing to "improve" the way the city looks in ways that seem to make no sense to the majority of citizens. Maintenance programs have noticibly gone downhill while they spend money on building new things. Roads seem to have never been worse for potholes, it's taking forever to plow and clean the streets, and the damn dandelions are invading most of the grass in this city- I swear some places have a 70/30 ratio of yellow to green.

It's always been kind of a shit show, but it's just getting worse every year :banghead:

[speedog]

Originally posted by NoMoreG35
It's always been kind of a shit show, but it's just getting worse every year :banghead:
Better move to Bindloss while you can - still lots of prime lots available there.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by speedog


The dandelion issue is because the government of Alberta took dandelions off of the noxious weed list - this means that dandelions no longer have to be legally controlled.

Which they did to limit the number of chemicals municipalities use (less people complaining how we're poisoning their kids, saves a bit of money).

Hell, with the way things are going you won't even be able to use 2,4-D on your lawns (Quebec and Ontario have banned it, BC wont be far behind).

[Sugarphreak]

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[FraserB]

Haha, tell us how you really feel.:rofl:

[kertejud2]

Wouldn't it be more impressive that something built with no engineering thought is still standing?

Or perhaps the geostructural engineer's design passes artistic critique better?

[euro_racer]

Originally posted by speedog


The dandelion issue is because the government of Alberta took dandelions off of the noxious weed list - this means that dandelions no longer have to be legally controlled.

Okay but they are still an eyesores for locals or visitors to see in that amount. Just because you don't have to control them any more doesn't mean you shouldn't. My point is money is spent building new, often unnecessary things to "improve appeal" of the city yet we are lacking spending on maintenance which really makes it shine in the end. But I guess they are not all that worried since we are in the top 10 of "the cleanest cities in the world"... For now...

[Sugarphreak]

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[Toma]

Calgary is a giant, brown, ugly dirt pit.

I was in Amsterdam and other parts of Europe over a month ago, and it was cleaner, greener, better kept and maintained than "Rich" Calgary is even today.