Educate yourself: How to talk to cops.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Last night, while taking the kids to see the meteors, pulled into a 7-11 where the cop were jacking up two non-whites.

From the fragments of dialogue, I could tell the cops were fishing "What are you guys doing tonight....". If they were being written a ticket for speeding or running a red, the conversation would have been different.

As things progress, I heard one of the cops go into full on mind-games-bully mode:

"Can I search your car"
"Do you have something to hide?"
"What's that? What did you say to me?"
"Why are you so nervous?

The cop was clearly enjoying himself, and the prey was flustered and nervous. Same as most of us area when at the mercy of an armed man.

I couldn't help but notice that both of the men were brown - One a South Asian, and the other an African Negro - Uncommon visitiors in my neighborhood, but otherwise there was nothing dodgy about them..

The South Asian, the driver, appeared to be waffling on whether or not to allow the cop to search his car. The cop had lead him to believe that it would earn him great goodwill if he was to allow the police officer to do this.

Sure.

Returning later, I saw the cops, but not their victims, suggesting to me that nothing was found.

I wonder if apologies were given for the abusive and disrespectful behavior?

This is a good moment to discuss the best way to deal with the police in such a situation.

Anyone care to get the ball rolling?

[Jeeper1986]

"May we search your car, you don't have nothing to hide do you"

No sir you can not search my car, I do not give you consent to search my car

Are you detaining me or am I free to go?

[spikerS]

I want to ignore you, but then I would still see when you post stupid trolling bullshit threads.

[roll_over]

Am I under arrest? If not I would like to go.

This is for the US but a lot of it applies here

http://norml.org/legal/item/freedom-card

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by spikerS
I want to ignore you, but then I would still see when you post stupid trolling bullshit threads.

You are free to ignore me, or course, but it would be incorrect to dismiss this as mere trolling - To my mind, this is crucial information in a society that would seek to prevent a slide into totalitarianism.

[BrknFngrs]

Best way to deal with it: Skin Bleaching

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
Last night, while taking the kids to see the meteors, pulled into a 7-11 where the cop were jacking up two non-whites.

From the fragments of dialogue, I could tell the cops were fishing "What are you guys doing tonight....". If they were being written a ticket for speeding or running a red, the conversation would have been different.

As things progress, I heard one of the cops go into full on mind-games-bully mode:

"Can I search your car"
"Do you have something to hide?"
"What's that? What did you say to me?"
"Why are you so nervous?

The cop was clearly enjoying himself, and the prey was flustered and nervous. Same as most of us area when at the mercy of an armed man.

I couldn't help but notice that both of the men were brown - One a South Asian, and the other an African Negro - Uncommon visitiors in my neighborhood, but otherwise there was nothing dodgy about them..

The South Asian, the driver, appeared to be waffling on whether or not to allow the cop to search his car. The cop had lead him to believe that it would earn him great goodwill if he was to allow the police officer to do this.

Sure.

Returning later, I saw the cops, but not their victims, suggesting to me that nothing was found.

I wonder if apologies were given for the abusive and disrespectful behavior?

This is a good moment to discuss the best way to deal with the police in such a situation.

Anyone care to get the ball rolling?

It's amazing how people like you all manage to sound exactly the same with your pathetic attempts at spinning any ol situation involving police into some major crime against humanity.

So I take it you saw the entire event from start to finish and know exactly the background history of the two individuals and what they did to have police talking to them, right? Surely you do, as you seem to talk like you know everything.
So please do share this with us, so we can bring justice to the streets and put these evil doer criminals masquerading as police where they belong.

[btimbit]

So you have no idea what was going on. Clearly the cops are in the wrong!

Here's all the thread needs to say. How to talk to cops;

"Yes sir. "

"No sir "

"Have a good day/night sir."

And of course, the timeless classic,

" The Black's went that way, sir."

[FraserB]

This isn't misunderstanding something. It's just plain ignorance and idiocy.

[msommers]

Originally posted by btimbit
So you have no idea what was going on. Clearly the cops are in the wrong!

Here's all the thread needs to say. How to talk to cops;

"Yes sir. "

"No sir "

"Have a good day/night sir."

And of course, the timeless classic,

" The Black's went that way, sir."

:rofl: Random stop and frisk!

What a stupid thread. For someone so articulate, I don't understand how you can be so fucking idiotic, Robin.

[roll_over]

Bobbin for c*ck robin?

[ZenOps]

I'm just picking up an inconspicous brown paper wrapped package for my boss, Rob -- Ford.

[GTS4tw]

I have always found that being polite, calling them sir, and not fighting about the validity of a ticket or search on the side of the road is the key to dealing with police. Always smile, be calm, even if you are being handcuffed, make everything super easy for them, do not argue with them no matter how right you are. They will do whatever they're going to do regardless if you act all hard, so unless you like the taste of OC, or the feeling of taser prongs being pulled out....relax. You will have your day in court, and you better believe that your attitude plays a key role in how much this incident will affect you.

Using this method I have "gotten away with" things that have seen friends lose their license or worse...

Most people who are "abused" by the police are idiots that don't know when to shut up, this usually applies to their everyday life as well as their dealings with the police.

[Mista Bob]

I've done my fair share of stupid shit, every encounter with the police I have ever had.... they were respectful and extremely polite towards me.
Why? Because I did the same towards them. Police officers, peace officers, whatever, they are all human too just like you. Treat them like one and gosh... you might just get the same in return. Assuming you didn't murder someone in front of them.

[16hypen3sp]

I always try the polite routine, but I do watch what I say. I only ever deal with them in traffic stops or the odd checkstop. Have the odd conversation with them in the coffee shop or gas station. I am from a small town with only a handful of RCs. Having a good rep with them goes a long way.

In the city, of course its a different story.

Sometimes you do get stuck between being polite and being correct. One cop tried to tell me my plate wasn't visible. I was being polite but I couldn't let him say that (because it is clearly visible) so I made my rebuttal politely and then the shit storm started. To this day, I am still baffled at how he tried to tell me that. I've also ran into him on the street twice since then... hasn't said anything to me.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Mista Bob
I've done my fair share of stupid shit, every encounter with the police I have ever had.... they were respectful and extremely polite towards me.
Why? Because I did the same towards them. Police officers, peace officers, whatever, they are all human too just like you. Treat them like one and gosh... you might just get the same in return. Assuming you didn't murder someone in front of them.

cops are there to serve the public and act when laws are being broken and when there's reasonable cause based on hard evidence. Looking shifty, acting nervous, looking around, avoiding eye contact, is NOT reasonable cause. Those could be a sign of freakin autism. I'm sure you're fine being nice to cops when they engage you. I'd rather they not engage me at all. The fundamental right in a free society is the right to be left alone. There's nothing wrong with a cop making eye contact, saying "hi" or "have a nice day". That's cool. But to randomly stop people, demand to search and question, ask for ID, and if you refuse they claim that you're resisting? I'm personally not a big fan of "Papers Please" gestapo tactics. I'm happy to say this has never happened to me and hopefully it stays that way and we don't fall deeper into some police state where citizens must bow down to authority even if they're not breaking any laws. The complete antithesis of a free society.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by BigMass
I'm happy to say this has never happened to me and hopefully it stays that way and we don't fall deeper into some police state where citizens must bow down to authority even if they're not breaking any laws.

Aren't we basically there now?

Kiss the guys ass and call him "sir", lest he finds something to punish you with.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
Last night, while taking the kids to see the meteors, pulled into a 7-11 where the cop were jacking up two non-whites.

From the fragments of dialogue, I could tell the cops were fishing "What are you guys doing tonight....". If they were being written a ticket for speeding or running a red, the conversation would have been different.

As things progress, I heard one of the cops go into full on mind-games-bully mode:

"Can I search your car"
"Do you have something to hide?"
"What's that? What did you say to me?"
"Why are you so nervous?

The cop was clearly enjoying himself, and the prey was flustered and nervous. Same as most of us area when at the mercy of an armed man.

I couldn't help but notice that both of the men were brown - One a South Asian, and the other an African Negro - Uncommon visitiors in my neighborhood, but otherwise there was nothing dodgy about them..

The South Asian, the driver, appeared to be waffling on whether or not to allow the cop to search his car. The cop had lead him to believe that it would earn him great goodwill if he was to allow the police officer to do this.

Sure.

Returning later, I saw the cops, but not their victims, suggesting to me that nothing was found.

I wonder if apologies were given for the abusive and disrespectful behavior?

This is a good moment to discuss the best way to deal with the police in such a situation.

Anyone care to get the ball rolling?
So what did you know of what may have happened in the area before you arrived at that 7/11? Once again, someone creates a thread relating what they know of a particular situation from a certain point in time and is critical of the CPA without possibly knowing all there is to know of the situation.

[FraserB]

I don't think anyone really believes that you have to call a police officer "sir" or kiss his ass in order to have a positive experience. Simply being polite and courteous is probably going to get you pretty far with the majority of police officers.

Not being a mouthy idiot or trying to lawyer it up on the side of the road has gotten me a very reduced penalty when I got pulled over (could have towed me, $3,000+ in fines. Walked with a speeding ticket.) and zero hassle in an accident they could have decided to make my life hard over. Also never been ticketed for my tint, extra lights and lack of fenders/mudflaps.

I may not agree with a lot of what they do in terms of enforcement priorities, but that's something that is out of their control and if I really cared enough, I'd lobby my MLA or alderman. I also choose to drive on public roads, part of which is knowing that the police are allowed to stop me for something as simple as making sure I have a DL and insurance, even if I did nothing else. Part of that is always going to be asked where I'm going, if I have anything in my car I shouldn't; all of which are valid investigative techniques.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Aren't we basically there now?

Kiss the guys ass and call him "sir", lest he finds something to punish you with.

Have we ever left "there"? My history books say no.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Aren't we basically there now?

Kiss the guys ass and call him "sir", lest he finds something to punish you with.

So being polite to other humans and calling them sir or ma'am is "kissing ass"? Hmm, maybe now I see why some people seem to attract batons to the face. Guess we were raised differently.

[BigShow]

But we live in what is becoming a police state...

[msommers]

Yeah it's total martial law up in this bitch

[rx7_turbo2]

Why do I get that feeling of déjà vu?

Wasn't it Robin Goodfellow who witnessed completely reasonable behaviour by transit officers then started a thread titled "Peace officer brutality"?

Yup here it is.
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/380934/quotpeace-officerquot-brutality-/

Robin Goodfellow seems to witness a lot of injustices. Either that or Robin Goodfellow witness's a lot of reasonable behaviour by Officers, but doesn't understand the scope of their work and sees injustices where there aren't any.

[speedog]

Originally posted by BigShow
But we live in what is becoming a police state...
Man, you must live in a different Calgary than I do.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Aren't we basically there now?

Kiss the guys ass and call him "sir", lest he finds something to punish you with.

Being respectful is kissing ass?

You and I must live in different worlds.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by BigShow
But we live in what is becoming a police state...

I think that's a bit dramatic and likely insulting for people who actually come from or live in police states - go to North Korea or Syria and you'll get an idea of what a police state looks like. We aren't that, nor are we even remotely close to becoming that.

[BigShow]

Was being sarcastic

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by BigShow
Was being sarcastic

Understood.

With that said, I've heard that term thrown around by a lot of people in both Canada and the USA. Just completely :banghead: . They wouldn't last a day in a place like the ones they describe.

[max_boost]

Racial profiling????

[Arash Boodagh]

ive learned that Canadian citizens have no common law rights against the state and not even the Bill of Rights will save you in defense as you willingly (unknown to most) forfeited every right and asset as a Canadian.

A registered car, property and housing, you, even children belong to the state.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makayla-sault-will-not-be-apprehended-by-children-s-aid-1.2648562

[JRSC00LUDE]

Hot Boooooooooooo-daghetty-dog! He's back with his lack of proper understanding! :clap:

[rx7_turbo2]

Ah fuck :banghead:

Arash and another thread ruined.

[dubhead]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
ive learned that Canadian citizens have no common law rights against the state and not even the Bill of Rights will save you in defense as you willingly (unknown to most) forfeited every right and asset as a Canadian.

A registered car, property and housing, you, even children belong to the state.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makayla-sault-will-not-be-apprehended-by-children-s-aid-1.2648562

Of course with the State ultimately being the Queen who are we as mere simpletons to question her divine right rule over us?

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Hot Boooooooooooo-daghetty-dog! He's back with his lack of proper understanding! :clap: :rofl:

[GTS4tw]

It's like herpes....

[Arash Boodagh]

Originally posted by dubhead


Of course with the State ultimately being the Queen who are we as mere simpletons to question her divine right rule over us? We are simpletons if we have faith in her, and believe that Syria's Assad is bad, Putin like Hitler, and that Canada's destiny will not end up as bad as the poorest neighbourhoods of the UK.

Top 10: Dodgy British Neighbourhoods
http://uk.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_250/273b_top-10-dodgy-british-neighbourhoods.html

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
Top 10: Dodgy British Neighbourhoods
http://uk.askmen.com/entertainment/special_feature_250/273b_top-10-dodgy-british-neighbourhoods.html

WTF is wrong with you? :hijack:

Somebody ban this clown already :banghead:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by GTS4tw
It's like herpes....

You leave JordanTurbo out of this!

[msommers]

:rofl:

[Arash Boodagh]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


WTF is wrong with you? :hijack:

Somebody ban this clown already :banghead:

Reading, Hackney as one of the worse neighbourhoods, checkout this random video I pulled up.

Hackney Riots, London
3o9p3ydGq28

[A790]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


You leave JordanTurbo out of this!
:rofl:

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by BigMass


cops are there to serve the public and act when laws are being broken and when there's reasonable cause based on hard evidence. Looking shifty, acting nervous, looking around, avoiding eye contact, is NOT reasonable cause. Those could be a sign of freakin autism. I'm sure you're fine being nice to cops when they engage you. I'd rather they not engage me at all. The fundamental right in a free society is the right to be left alone. There's nothing wrong with a cop making eye contact, saying "hi" or "have a nice day". That's cool. But to randomly stop people, demand to search and question, ask for ID, and if you refuse they claim that you're resisting? I'm personally not a big fan of "Papers Please" gestapo tactics. I'm happy to say this has never happened to me and hopefully it stays that way and we don't fall deeper into some police state where citizens must bow down to authority even if they're not breaking any laws. The complete antithesis of a free society.

What? Where are you getting this from?
Did you quote the wrong person? No one here is talking about police randomly stopping people.
It probably hasn't happened to you.... because it doesn't happen.
Police need a valid reason for every single pull over they do, otherwise they can get in trouble and even ruin any potential case from the stop.

[Toma]

If a cop does not say"Please, thank you, Sir" , I don't return the favour.

He is interrupting my day, he better be courteous and civil.

[dirtsniffer]

Police don't need a reason to pull you over to ask for:
1) driver's license
2) vehicle registration
3) vehicle insurance

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Police don't need a reason to pull you over to ask for:
1) driver's license
2) vehicle registration
3) vehicle insurance

Yes we do, but stopping a vehicle to check to see if those documents are on board is a valid reason.

Although, IMO, a little shifty. It's not hard to find a reason to stop a car that you want to. Tint, speeding, you name it; it's pretty easy.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Toma
If a cop does not say"Please, thank you, Sir" , I don't return the favour.

He is interrupting my day, he better be courteous and civil.

I do every time... And you're absolutely right. An officer's life is much easier when we're polite.

I work with a couple guys that aren't, and they get worse responses than I do. Simply because calling someone "sir" is too hard.

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
And you're absolutely right.

Quick toma, grab that as your sig - you don't get that very often around here. :rofl:

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta


Quick toma, grab that as your sig - you don't get that very often around here. :rofl:

Hey, I bust his balls around here as much as anyone, but when you're right... You're right. :D

[DeleriousZ]

Just burst into tears. Seems to work great!

[ExtraSlow]

Honest question, for those members who are in thier 30's or older, how much intereaction do you have with the cops?
I'm probably averaging once every two or three years. I think the last time I talked to one it was the school resource office at my daughters school.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by msommers
What a stupid thread. For someone so articulate, I don't understand how you can be so fucking idiotic, Robin.


Originally posted by spikerS
I want to ignore you, but then I would still see when you post stupid trolling bullshit threads.

You guys do know what his name means, right? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(mythology)) :rofl:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[speedog]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Honest question, for those members who are in thier 30's or older, how much intereaction do you have with the cops?
I'm probably averaging once every two or three years. I think the last time I talked to one it was the school resource office at my daughters school.
Spot on. Interact with them when they come in off-duty to buy pet food at our shop - latest official interaction was at District 3 office in past 2 weeks to file an accident claim (other person's fault), check-stop in winter and don't remember time before that.

[dirtsniffer]

Last time I dealt with them is when I was in a accident. they gave the other guy a ticket for unsafe left turn to help with the insurance claim. Cop even shook my hand..

actually I got pulled over a month or so ago doing 60 in 50. gave me a warning... bastards.


:nut:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dirtsniffer]

speeding crack down on the road. Even though the road should have a 60 limit. no drive ways, very few interestections. no houses.

If Druh gets her way doing 60 in a 50 is gonna be bigfuckingdeal.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Were you driving a flashy car or doing something you shouldn't have?

I've never been bothered doing 10km over the limit... usually drive right past speed traps doing that and they don't even pay attention.

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
speeding crack down on the road. Even though the road should have a 60 limit. no drive ways, very few interestections. no houses.

If Druh gets her way doing 60 in a 50 is gonna be bigfuckingdeal.
Yeah, I've never been bothered doing 10km over either. Just yesterday I was going 60 in a 50, happened to look in my rear view mirror and saw a Crown Vic that seemingly came out of nowhere, because he wasn't there a minute prior. He didn't stop me though.

Generally I slow down near the CPS hotspots that I know of, but I've driven past RCMP and Sheriffs on the QE2 doing 120, and they don't care.

But yeah, if they were cracking down on that particular road, you would get stopped. I think it was mostly because the speed limit was only 50. If you were on an 80+ road and were going 10 over, they probably wouldn't have bothered.

For the most part, up to 10%, you're completely safe, and 10 km over (which becomes 10% as you get towards 100) in a 50 or 60 you're usually okay unless the cop is having a bad day. I was stopped doing 66 in a 50 coming out of downtown on 14th St NW. I didn't even realize I was going that fast, and I didn't see the guy with his laser until he was stepping out into the road. He was a Traffic Unit officer with a motorcycle.

I never seem to have any luck whenever I get pulled over though. I don't drive a flashy car or anything, I'm never rude to them. In my years of driving, I've been stopped twice by CPS Traffic, and once by RCMP. I was polite to all of them, and they were polite in return. Granted, I was going more than 10 over (20~25), so it was my fault for speeding. But they were all completely willing to write me a ticket without giving me a break at all. :cry:

[MalibuStacy]

Let's stay on topic guys LOL, we were discussing how the op is a nut job...

[xnvy]

Originally posted by n1zm0
You guys do know what his name means, right? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(mythology)) :rofl: How did I not notice that? :banghead:

Now I just feel stupid for every time I've replied to OP in other threads. :(

[Robin Goodfellow]

Lots of interesting responses... Lots of reading into my thread things that aren't there.

But most important, is that we're all talking about it.


Here's my take on the interaction:

1) The police officer was manipulating the driver to gain consent to a search that he did have a legitimate right to do otherwise.

2) The driver was flustered and cowed - And unaware of his own rights in regards to this situation.


It all came down to the drivers lack of knowledge of his own rights, and the appropriate manner to conduct himself in this situation.

That is not to say that he should be disrespectful, or even worse, be a roadside lawyer... but one should not have to be either in order to not give our consent to be searched.

Framing this as "exercising your rights" would not go well. You can politely decline to give consent, or politely decline to allow the cop into your house. That is enough.

In the end, the police will do what they want to do - Moreso the less eyes that are on them.

Does that mean it's better for you to pre-emptively bend over?



Here's some Canada-specific links:

http://www.hosseinilaw.com/talking-to-the-police/

http://svan.ca/police-rights/

http://ccla.org/2012/12/21/winter-series-2-youth-rights-and-policing/

http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Know-Your-Rights-Booklet1.pdf

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
Lots of interesting responses... Lots of reading into my thread things that aren't there.

But most important, is that we're all talking about it.


Here's my take on the interaction:

1) The police officer was manipulating the driver to gain consent to a search that he did have a legitimate right to do otherwise.

2) The driver was flustered and cowed - And unaware of his own rights in regards to this situation.


It all came down to the drivers lack of knowledge of his own rights, and the appropriate manner to conduct himself in this situation.


Your own links show that the police did nothing wrong at all. Confusing someone during the course of questioning and trying to get them to provide consent for something isn't illegal and would most likely be upheld as a valid tactic for questioning a suspect or person of interest.

If someone is an idiot and doesn't know how they should interact with the police, it's their own fault and not the job of the police to educate them on the matter before trying to question them (except in the case of arrest).

You've again looked into a situation you know nothing about and applied your own very obvious bias.

[codetrap]

So, here's a question for 95EagleAWD. If I'm in this situation, and I'm a little confused. Can I simply ask the police officer, "What are my specific rights here? Do I have to allow you to search my vehicle? Can I record this interaction for our mutual protection?" and do they have to give me a honest answer? I understand that I have to surrender my ID pretty much on request, but I'm not totally clear on my other rights. Also, if they lie to me, wouldn't that invalidate anything they find?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[codetrap]

Yeah, I can see how that would irritate them, and things would take much longer that it had to. Honestly though, I'm just curious.

The last interaction I had with the police was when I was on my old 2000 Katana in 2001. They were doing license/insurance checks. I just remember the office demanding "Get off the bike NOW!!"

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by codetrap
Also, if they lie to me, wouldn't that invalidate anything they find?

No, cops lie all the time to try and trick you into admitting something. It's deceitful but, effective I suppose. :dunno:

I've had cops run my info. in the past and then come back and tell me crap like "Oh, you've been in trouble for this or that before. Why don't you just tell us what you're up to?" etc. etc. You know they're lying and you tell them that and they just get mad at you and call YOU a liar and try to coerce/force you into saying something to implicate yourself.

I disagree with it and think it's a bullshit tactic but it is what it is.

EDIT - You can absolutely record your interaction with the Police and you do not have to inform them you are doing so, as far as I am aware. That being said, even if you do inform them, they cannot stop you.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE

I've had cops run my info. in the past and then come back and tell me crap like "Oh, you've been in trouble for this or that before.

Nothing to do with the subject, but in highschool I was stumbling home from a party one night, and cops pulled over to ax me a bunch of questions. They ran my name and started giving me grief about how "I have a 12 o'clock curfew" because of some "trouble I was in, in Ontario", and "blah blah, up to no good, blah blah"

I was completely confused because I hadn't been to Ontario since I was 5 years old and explained that to them :rofl: . Turns out there was someone with my same name, living on my road (it was a rural road, so pretty long). After that, I just started running into the forest whenever a cop pulled over in front of me while walking home. Made for some entertaining times.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
After that, I just started running into the forest whenever a cop pulled over in front of me while walking home.

:rofl:

The area I grew up in had lots of forested areas, and once us kids ran in there, the cops just gave up.

[16hypen3sp]

When you don't consent to the search, hopefully you don't get a response like this. This would be very frightening!

WARNING: Language NSFW.
Seek to 1:40 for the action.
watch?v=x7Kw9-vTJYs

[botox]

^^ Interesting turn of events, the cop was so nice, then SNAP!! haha. But the cop should of gave him the option of ticket and no search, or no ticket and search. I thought he was going to go back and give him the ticket but then he takes off with the guys license lol.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by botox
^^ Interesting turn of events, the cop was so nice, then SNAP!! haha. But the cop should of gave him the option of ticket and no search, or no ticket and search. I thought he was going to go back and give him the ticket but then he takes off with the guys license lol.

Read the youtube description. It wasn't real.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Read the youtube description. It wasn't real.

Hahaha! Jesus I went this long thinking it was real. Guess I failed to read the description too!

IMO, these cops are just plain dumb to pull a stunt like that in uniform under video surveillance.

But nevertheless, I hope something like that never happens when you don't consent.

EDIT: If you look thru the video description, you will find even more videos that these cops have made. Pretty funny.

[botox]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Read the youtube description. It wasn't real.
haha Nice, they got me. I don't usually go to the youtube page and just watch it from here. Second video is pretty funny too.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by codetrap
So, here's a question for 95EagleAWD. If I'm in this situation, and I'm a little confused. Can I simply ask the police officer, "What are my specific rights here? Do I have to allow you to search my vehicle? Can I record this interaction for our mutual protection?" and do they have to give me a honest answer? I understand that I have to surrender my ID pretty much on request, but I'm not totally clear on my other rights. Also, if they lie to me, wouldn't that invalidate anything they find?

You can certainly ask whatever you'd like, but I don't think we have to be honest with the answer... which doesn't really seem ethically right.

You can certainly record anything you want in an interaction with the police.

You do have to provide ID to police/CPOs on request IF you've broken the law, no matter how small... jaywalking, that kind of thing. We can't arbitrarily just ask you for ID for no reason.

There are certain situations where we don't need consent to search your car, like alcohol or drugs in plain view. If you're speeding and we want to search, we need to ask and you can say no.

[codetrap]

95EagleAWD, thanks for the answer. I did a little googling around and found a printable card from the canadian civil liberties that outlines that I can put in the car. I'm generally of the school of thought that if I simply cooperate, things will go faster, but it never hurts to know the rules of the game. :)

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by codetrap
95EagleAWD, thanks for the answer. I did a little googling around and found a printable card from the canadian civil liberties that outlines that I can put in the car. I'm generally of the school of thought that if I simply cooperate, things will go faster, but it never hurts to know the rules of the game. :)

That's awesome, link it here?

And yes, cooperation is the key but sometimes you just get a jerk on the other end (just like they do).

[codetrap]

http://www.bearpaweducation.ca/sites/default/files/Statement%20for%20Police-2012.pdf

[ercchry]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE

I've had cops run my info. in the past and then come back and tell me crap like "Oh, you've been in trouble for this or that before. Why don't you just tell us what you're up to?" etc. etc. You know they're lying and you tell them that and they just get mad at you and call YOU a liar and try to coerce/force you into saying something to implicate yourself.

just take a page out of marky mark's book next time :rofl:

FZJK7bi2mWU

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by codetrap
http://www.bearpaweducation.ca/sites/default/files/Statement%20for%20Police-2012.pdf

Careful with this. My thoughts on what happens when we meet people that do this.

"Am I being detained?" Well yes, yes you are. And that's a surefire way to piss me off. How else am I supposed to ask you questions if I'm not detaining you?

"Am I under arrest?" Probably not, but if I'm detaining you, then that's irrelevant.

You don't really have the "right" to silence. You have the right to not answer questions AFTER you've been arrested and read your charter rights. You do not have the right to refuse to identify yourself, for instance. Failing to identify yourself to a PO if they have lawful reason to ask for it will result in you being arrested. And then we'll search you and find your ID anyways.

You may not consent to being searched, but I will search you if you're in handcuffs. It's for safety and to make sure you can't escape my custody. If you're arrested because you're intoxicated in public, then I'm going through your backpack. And it's perfectly legal.

"I wish to be released without delay." You don't need to tell me that. I won't hold you longer than I need to.

Of course you have the right to know why you're being detained or arrested. When I arrest someone, I have to tell them why. "You're under arrest for assault/theft/whatever." Then I read them charter rights and at that point, you have the right to clam up.

I'm all for people exercising their rights. 99% of my encounters are quick, clean and people are on their way in no time. But exercise your rights intelligently. If you get stopped for jaywalking, and you have a brick of coke in your pocket... might just wanna say "yes sir" and take the $57 ticket instead of us handcuffing you for jaywalking and then finding stuff in your pockets that we would never know about.

All my opinion, of course.

[codetrap]

95EagleAWD, I fully understand. The longer version of this http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Know-Your-Rights-Booklet1.pdf has a good explanation of all the different stages. This is just basically the coles notes version for a car..

Also, I agree with you, being polite is definitely the way to go. After all, I'd stop and answer someone asking for directions, so why wouldn't I extend the same level of courtesy to a police officer?

[faiz999]

i find it funny/confusing that

A) im required by law to give you my ID. i mean, what happens if I don't have ID and refuse to identify myself? I'm actually curious b/c i see that playing out with the officers detaining/arresting you, but if you're unable to know who i am, how can you charge me with anything?

B)you have the authority vested by the government to search/go through my stuff, w/o a warrant.

i was under the impression i have rights and within those rights you cannot unlawfully search my stuff without a warrant and anything you find is inadmissible in court, if charges were ever laid. do these rights disappear as soon as im in handcuffs or something?

[codetrap]

Originally posted by faiz999
i find it funny/confusing that

A) im required by law to give you my ID. i mean, what happens if I don't have ID and refuse to identify myself? I'm actually curious b/c i see that playing out with the officers detaining/arresting you, but if you're unable to know who i am, how can you charge me with anything?

B)you have the authority vested by the government to search/go through my stuff, w/o a warrant.

i was under the impression i have rights and within those rights you cannot unlawfully search my stuff without a warrant and anything you find is inadmissible in court, if charges were ever laid. do these rights disappear as soon as im in handcuffs or something?

Can't you READ? Look at the links provided, and you'll find out. Or you can learn the hard way.

[FraserB]

Well if you don't have your license on you when you're driving, you're going to be getting a nice ticket, a tow bill and a taxi bill. If you outright refuse to identify yourself if they lawfully ask, it's obstruction.

When you get arrested, the police can search you, anything you are wearing and whatever you are carrying. They can also search the area around where you were arrested, which can include your car.

And if you still refuse to tell then who you are, they'll legally detain you until you either come to your senses or they figure it out. Then they'll know who to charge with obstruction.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by faiz999
i find it funny/confusing that

A) im required by law to give you my ID. i mean, what happens if I don't have ID and refuse to identify myself? I'm actually curious b/c i see that playing out with the officers detaining/arresting you, but if you're unable to know who i am, how can you charge me with anything?

B)you have the authority vested by the government to search/go through my stuff, w/o a warrant.

i was under the impression i have rights and within those rights you cannot unlawfully search my stuff without a warrant and anything you find is inadmissible in court, if charges were ever laid. do these rights disappear as soon as im in handcuffs or something?

If you don't have ID and refuse to identify yourself verbally, you'll be arrested for identification purposes. If we can't ID you after that arrest, I'll call EPS and see if they can. If they can't and you still (stupidly) refuse to identify yourself, you'll be remanded into custody until someone can. I don't know to what extreme that is, but most people give up a name when they realize they're about to get boned and spend time in jail over a ticket.

You do have rights. However, let's say I see you walking down the sidewalk with an open beer in your hand, carrying a backpack. It's not the end of the world, but it's illegal and it's a good reason for me to stop and chat with you. I'll make you dump that beer and I'll be ID'ing you for the purpose of writing you an open container ticket. I'll also search your backpack because it's reasonable for me to assume that you'll just crack another beer once I leave. So I'm stopping that from happening. I'm not going into your backpack looking for guns or bombs (but if I find one, that's a whole different shitstorm), but to stop the liquor offense that you're committing.

Make sense?

[FraserB]

And to answer the next question you have; if he does find your gun in the bag, it's fair game and would hold up in court.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by codetrap


Can't you READ? Look at the links provided, and you'll find out. Or you can learn the hard way.

sorry, didnt read the whole thread, just 95eagles post. I'll go back and read them.

edit-95eagle answered my query.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


If you don't have ID and refuse to identify yourself verbally, you'll be arrested for identification purposes. If we can't ID you after that arrest, I'll call EPS and see if they can. If they can't and you still (stupidly) refuse to identify yourself, you'll be remanded into custody until someone can. I don't know to what extreme that is, but most people give up a name when they realize they're about to get boned and spend time in jail over a ticket.

You do have rights. However, let's say I see you walking down the sidewalk with an open beer in your hand, carrying a backpack. It's not the end of the world, but it's illegal and it's a good reason for me to stop and chat with you. I'll make you dump that beer and I'll be ID'ing you for the purpose of writing you an open container ticket. I'll also search your backpack because it's reasonable for me to assume that you'll just crack another beer once I leave. So I'm stopping that from happening. I'm not going into your backpack looking for guns or bombs (but if I find one, that's a whole different shitstorm), but to stop the liquor offense that you're committing.

Make sense?


yep, appreciate the response. cleared things up on my end.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by faiz999
Fraser- I meant if I was walking on the street and jay walked and the PeaceO approaches me to issue a ticket and asks for ID. If I say I have none (and lets imagine i actually don't), I'm wondering how long would they hold me to get my information. It seems at some point, they'd just concede the situation and let me go. I assume that this happens quite a bit with homeless people who travel too far on the train line. If i don't have ID, let alone an address, how you can issue me a ticket?

They aren't going to let you go at all if you're refusing to ID yourself. If anything, continued refusal is going to make them even more interested in who you are.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by FraserB
And to answer the next question you have; if he does find your gun in the bag, it's fair game and would hold up in court.

It sure does. Because I have found a handgun in a backpack before. And it's unnerving to say the least.

[phil98z24]

I'm not going to comment much on the OP, but some of the other discussion is important and needs to be addressed.

1) Don't be a roadside/sidewalk/whatever lawyer. You may not agree with it, but it's not appropriate or legal to dispute that on the spot. That's what courts are for. If we are acting in good faith at the time, then it doesn't matter if it turns out to be "Wrong" down the road - we have the right to execute our duties without luxury of time or in depth analysis at the time. We need to investigate and find the truth of a matter, and may be acting on the best information we have at the time (which may turn out to be completely wrong) but we have a duty to act on it and work with what we know, and then adjust as necessary. We also have a legal duty to investigate crime and if that means developing grounds and speaking with people who we otherwise don't have obvious information about to act on, then we need to talk to people and get that information. You or other people may not agree with it, but the courts have said that's our job and our right, and any interference with those duties is a criminal act.

2) If you have broken the law and are being briefly detained for an offence, such as a bylaw/traffic/statutory offence, you must ID yourself. If you are under arrest for a criminal act, you must ID yourself. If you are driving a car/boat/bicycle on the street, you must ID yourself. If you are walking down the street or doing nothing whatsoever and are asked your name, you don't have to provide it - but if you do, don't lie about it, because then it's obstruction. If you further refuse to ID yourself, you will be arrested and held under you ID yourself, or we ID you.

3) Police don't need a warrant to search you/your car if you are being searched incident to arrest, and that search is for weapons/escape means/evidence of the offence you are under arrest for, or for ID if you aren't complying with a lawful demand for ID. There are also warrantless search provisions under the GLA pertaining to vehicles, and also for firearms/certain weapons under the Firearms Act/CC. There is also the issue of plain view and other types of incidental searches where we can be lawfully placed and see evidence of a crime that is in progress/has been committed and act on that in order to further search, but I won't delve too much into that.

If there are no grounds to search your person/vehicle/house/whatever and an officer asks to perform a consent search, you do have the right to be completely informed of what your rights are and you do have the right to consent/refuse a search if asked. If you are not completely informed, which will generally include you signing a very thorough document that explains all your rights (including your right to refuse) it will be considered unlawful and anything obtained as a result can be tossed in court.

4) If you don't know if you are being detained, then ask. I'm not sure why this bothers 95EagleAWD, because I would rather that person be completely sure of what's going on if/when they decide they don't want to be detained or don't agree with it, and we need to talk about it. There is a significant difference between detention and arrest, and it's important to be very clear on that.

5) It is your responsibility to be aware of your rights, but at the same time our rulebook is complicated, long, and pounded into our heads at length, and unless it's being done deliberately or by mistake, we will be the ones who know what your rights are and have legal obligations to respect them even if you don't know what they are. That includes informing you of them and allowing your to implement those rights, such as access to legal counsel.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
If you don't have ID and refuse to identify yourself verbally, you'll be arrested for identification purposes.
You do have rights. However, let's say I see you walking down the sidewalk with an open beer in your hand, carrying a backpack. It's not the end of the world, but it's illegal and it's a good reason for me to stop and chat with you.
Just wanna clarify one thing. If I'm walking down the street committing no offense (no beer, nothing) and a cop stops me, I don't have to present ID if asked, and he can't search my backpack, correct? There must be a reason?

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


It sure does. Because I have found a handgun in a backpack before. And it's unnerving to say the least.

Are you a full on police now? Congrats!

[95EagleAWD]

The only reason it bugs me is because it's usually said in a completely disrespectful way like the answer will always be "no" and people are free to go on their way, when they've obviously done something wrong to get my attention. I'm sure you've seen the "am I being detained" people on YouTube.

If they politely asked, then I have no problem.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


Are you a full on police now? Congrats!

Nope. I'm still a CPO. Just goes to show how closely the two jobs can intersect. I'm hoping to be CPS quite shortly here though. (Calgary is way nicer than Edmonton and I have a tendency to meet awesome girls when I'm down there haha)

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Feruk

Just wanna clarify one thing. If I'm walking down the street committing no offense (no beer, nothing) and a cop stops me, I don't have to present ID if asked, and he can't search my backpack, correct? There must be a reason?

Chances are if you're just walking down the street minding your own business, nobody will bother you since it's unlawful. We do have to face consequences for our actions, and we're not allowed to just jack people up for no reason.

The only thing I can think of is if you match a description that's been passed around and we'd like to see if you're who we're looking for.

[max_boost]

I've had quite a few encounters with CPS in the last few years, more so than I like but can say I don't have any issues with them. They have been very helpful and good to deal with. Maybe I'm a little older cause I don't remember them being that nice before lol

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Nope. I'm still a CPO. Just goes to show how closely the two jobs can intersect. I'm hoping to be CPS quite shortly here though. (Calgary is way nicer than Edmonton and I have a tendency to meet awesome girls when I'm down there haha)

Good luck! Nice to have someone on here providing some good factual info without being condescending or a dick.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


Good luck! Nice to have someone on here providing some good factual info without being condescending or a dick.

The more you know, the easier it goes for both of us!

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by phil98z24
I'm not going to comment much on the OP, but some of the other discussion is important and needs to be addressed.

1) Don't be a roadside/sidewalk/whatever lawyer. You may not agree with it, but it's not appropriate or legal to dispute that on the spot. That's what courts are for. If we are acting in good faith at the time, then it doesn't matter if it turns out to be "Wrong" down the road - we have the right to execute our duties without luxury of time or in depth analysis at the time. We need to investigate and find the truth of a matter, and may be acting on the best information we have at the time (which may turn out to be completely wrong) but we have a duty to act on it and work with what we know, and then adjust as necessary. We also have a legal duty to investigate crime and if that means developing grounds and speaking with people who we otherwise don't have obvious information about to act on, then we need to talk to people and get that information. You or other people may not agree with it, but the courts have said that's our job and our right, and any interference with those duties is a criminal act.

2) If you have broken the law and are being briefly detained for an offence, such as a bylaw/traffic/statutory offence, you must ID yourself. If you are under arrest for a criminal act, you must ID yourself. If you are driving a car/boat/bicycle on the street, you must ID yourself. If you are walking down the street or doing nothing whatsoever and are asked your name, you don't have to provide it - but if you do, don't lie about it, because then it's obstruction. If you further refuse to ID yourself, you will be arrested and held under you ID yourself, or we ID you.

3) Police don't need a warrant to search you/your car if you are being searched incident to arrest, and that search is for weapons/escape means/evidence of the offence you are under arrest for, or for ID if you aren't complying with a lawful demand for ID. There are also warrantless search provisions under the GLA pertaining to vehicles, and also for firearms/certain weapons under the Firearms Act/CC. There is also the issue of plain view and other types of incidental searches where we can be lawfully placed and see evidence of a crime that is in progress/has been committed and act on that in order to further search, but I won't delve too much into that.

If there are no grounds to search your person/vehicle/house/whatever and an officer asks to perform a consent search, you do have the right to be completely informed of what your rights are and you do have the right to consent/refuse a search if asked. If you are not completely informed, which will generally include you signing a very thorough document that explains all your rights (including your right to refuse) it will be considered unlawful and anything obtained as a result can be tossed in court.

4) If you don't know if you are being detained, then ask. I'm not sure why this bothers 95EagleAWD, because I would rather that person be completely sure of what's going on if/when they decide they don't want to be detained or don't agree with it, and we need to talk about it. There is a significant difference between detention and arrest, and it's important to be very clear on that.

5) It is your responsibility to be aware of your rights, but at the same time our rulebook is complicated, long, and pounded into our heads at length, and unless it's being done deliberately or by mistake, we will be the ones who know what your rights are and have legal obligations to respect them even if you don't know what they are. That includes informing you of them and allowing your to implement those rights, such as access to legal counsel.

Good answers and, glad you're still poking around here. It's beneficial, thank you.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


Good luck! Nice to have someone on here providing some good factual info without being condescending or a dick.

I thought that I was far from being condescending or a dick.