Hail Claim Question, paging insurance guys!

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Situation: bought car last Friday, hail damage occurred Sunday. Car is a 1992 Miata. I have comprehensive insurance on it which should cover hail damage. My concern is that being a 1992 Miata they will likely try to write the car off. I have no interest in loseing the car, I love it and I feel like TD will offer me very little money for it if they decide to write it off.

Can I cancel a claim if I am unhappy with how it is going? Book value on a 1992 Miata can't be very much to insurance.

What would you do?

[KRyn]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Situation: bought car last Friday, hail damage occurred Sunday. Car is a 1992 Miata. I have comprehensive insurance on it which should cover hail damage. My concern is that being a 1992 Miata they will likely try to write the car off. I have no interest in loseing the car, I love it and I feel like TD will offer me very little money for it if they decide to write it off.

Can I cancel a claim if I am unhappy with how it is going? Book value on a 1992 Miata can't be very much to insurance.

What would you do?

Take the payout (whatever it is) and keep the car as is? At which point drop comprehensive coverage (I don't think your insurance company will let you keep it) and pocket some more cash.

[mr2mike]

Comprehensive on a 22 yr old car? :dunno:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by mr2mike
Comprehensive on a 22 yr old car? :dunno:

Yeah I wanted theft since it's a soft top and super easy to break into.

[nzwasp]

Where were you when it hailed? I saw some smaller hail in the inner city but nothing to damage a car.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Where were you when it hailed? I saw some smaller hail in the inner city but nothing to damage a car.

Langdon

[guessboi]

Originally posted by KRyn


Take the payout (whatever it is) and keep the car as is? At which point drop comprehensive coverage (I don't think your insurance company will let you keep it) and pocket some more cash.

+1
You can probably take a payout and keep the car.
I remember people saying TD won't allow you to keep comprehensive with existing hail damage.
Other companies would just add a "13H" hail exclusion to your NA.

[sidewaysD]

yikes..


pics of the damage?

Soft tops for first gens are cheap if its broken/torn/cracked by hail.

As for the body.. they dent very easy as the metal is so thin. But.... dents can be easily removed depending on damage.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Soft top was undamaged it was all body work.

[pheoxs]

Take it to DNT dent repair on memorial and get them to give you a quote how much it'd be to fix it and see how it is relative to the cars value and go from there.

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by pheoxs
Take it to DNT dent repair on memorial and get them to give you a quote how much it'd be to fix it and see how it is relative to the cars value and go from there.

Couple years ago I went there, they estimated nearly double what TD estimated the damage at :nut:

[bjstare]

Take the payout, remove comprehensive/theft, use some of the cash to buy a hardtop for it and don't worry as much about theft??

Plus, miatas are way less gay when they have a hardtop on them ;)

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by cjblair
Take the payout, remove comprehensive/theft, use some of the cash to buy a hardtop for it and don't worry as much about theft??

Plus, miatas are way less gay when they have a hardtop on them ;)

I won't be buying a hard top, I drive it everyday with the roof down...

I guess I'll phone TD and see what they say.

[three.eighteen.]

I have a feeling what I just experienced with my late Integra applies. Someone hit my fender and door in a parking lot, cost of repair > cost of car. TD offered me two options:
a) Surrender the car, receive more money
b) Keep the car, still get a fair bit of money, but if you wanted the car back on the road it has to be certified in a manner similar to OOP.

[Masked Bandit]

You'll be able to get a cash settlement and still keep the comprehensive coverage on the vehicle. TD will just put a 13H endorsement with prevents you from ever claiming hail on that vehicle again (duh). If you choose to repair the hail damage with the cash settlement you can submit proof to TD and they will remove the 13H clause. If they don't allow that and you REALLY want to keep the comprehensive coverage just change companies. TD is usually pretty easy to beat these days.

[msommers]

Fuck TD anyways, those dicks were so expensive compared to what I have with Touchstone now, and better coverage to boot. I thought I was getting this great deal with my APEGGA discount until I started shopping around and they were right near the top.

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by msommers
Fuck TD anyways, those dicks were so expensive compared to what I have with Touchstone now, and better coverage to boot. I thought I was getting this great deal with my APEGGA discount until I started shopping around and they were right near the top.

:werd:

[guessboi]

Want to know which insurance company is doing well and which company is bleeding hard.
Check out the 2014 Statistical Issue
http://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/issues/de.aspx?sp=1&er=NA
Go to page 69.

TD Insurance lost $624,762,000 in 2013. Worst in the industry. :rofl:

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by msommers
Fuck TD anyways, those dicks were so expensive compared to what I have with Touchstone now, and better coverage to boot. I thought I was getting this great deal with my APEGGA discount until I started shopping around and they were right near the top.

I wish this was the case with me :( Bill couldnt help me here with my policy.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by A2VR6


I wish this was the case with me :( Bill couldnt help me here with my policy.

No system is perfect but we definitely win more than we lose. ;)

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by G-ZUS


Couple years ago I went there, they estimated nearly double what TD estimated the damage at :nut:

Really? TD quoted and paid me out 1600$ for the hail damage on my FR-S (though minus deductible). DNT fixed it all for 750$

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by guessboi


TD Insurance lost $624,762,000 in 2013. Worst in the industry. :rofl:

I would think the company that paid out the most claims would be the better choice for consumers?

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


I would think the company that paid out the most claims would be the better choice for consumers?

They probably lost that much from losing soo many customers:rofl:

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


I would think the company that paid out the most claims would be the better choice for consumers?

That's not how much they paid out in claims (total). That is the LOSS. It means they paid out $6245,xxx,xxx MORE in claims than they took in with premiums. Any company that loses that much money in a year is going to have some pretty wild pricing corrections over the following couple of years, which is what's happening with TD right now.

[D__]

$11682.xx for my car. Suprised they didn't write it off. You telling me TD will start bumping up rates?

[toastgremlin]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


That's not how much they paid out in claims (total). That is the LOSS. It means they paid out $6245,xxx,xxx MORE in claims than they took in with premiums. Any company that loses that much money in a year is going to have some pretty wild pricing corrections over the following couple of years, which is what's happening with TD right now.

How do insurance companies come back from this kind of thing? Surely a lot of people are price sensitive to premiums and are going to start looking elsewhere, which will erode their premium base further. TDMM is too big to merge with another insurance company to suckle from their teat, I assume.

TD already slashes customer and claim service to the bone from what I understand, there's not much more margin to erase.

Also what percentage of their total payout is that loss? If it's like a 1% loss maybe it's not so big of a number.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by toastgremlin


How do insurance companies come back from this kind of thing? Surely a lot of people are price sensitive to premiums and are going to start looking elsewhere, which will erode their premium base further. TDMM is too big to merge with another insurance company to suckle from their teat, I assume.

TD already slashes customer and claim service to the bone from what I understand, there's not much more margin to erase.

Also what percentage of their total payout is that loss? If it's like a 1% loss maybe it's not so big of a number.

Compared to other Canadian insurance operations, yes TD is one of the big guys. But on a global insurance company scale, they are the local ma & pa corner store sitting across the table from Costco. Any one of a number of other insurance companies could buy TD's insurance operations with the change from their couch.

A one year underwriting loss like that is big, not doubt, but it's not crippling. Insurance companies look at long term underwriting results, not just year to year. I'm sure TD insurance will be fine long term, if they stay in the market. There has been talk of them getting out of insurance for a while now.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Yeah I dont miss TD at all, they were my first ever insurance provider. Great at the time, but Im not 16 anymore.... and their perks for paying their absurdly high fee's quickly ran out. Then I went to Statefarm (briefly), Lungren & Young, now Touchstone.

Couldn't be happier now.


Bill, if TD is small potatoes, who are these ginormous companies? and where are they based out of? Seems odd, I dont know how a company would get so big that they can swallow a corporation such as TD so easily.

[toastgremlin]

I know about Liverpool-Victoria - they're simply massive - and I imagine there are similar British insurance orgs that are just as big.

When an insurance company exits the market, do they transfer their policies to another firm or just send out a letter saying "we're closing, go find new insurance by {X}?"

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ Yeah I dont miss TD at all, they were my first ever insurance provider. Great at the time, but Im not 16 anymore.... and their perks for paying their absurdly high fee's quickly ran out. Then I went to Statefarm (briefly), Lungren & Young, now Touchstone.

Couldn't be happier now.


Bill, if TD is small potatoes, who are these ginormous companies? and where are they based out of? Seems odd, I dont know how a company would get so big that they can swallow a corporation such as TD so easily.



Originally posted by toastgremlin
I know about Liverpool-Victoria - they're simply massive - and I imagine there are similar British insurance orgs that are just as big.

When an insurance company exits the market, do they transfer their policies to another firm or just send out a letter saying "we're closing, go find new insurance by {X}?"

The two best examples I can think of are Allianz & Zurich. When each company exited the Canadian personal lines (home & auto) game back in 2005(ish) and 2000(ish) respectively, they simply sold off their Canadian insurance operations to other players in the market (both happened to be ING which eventually became Intact). Of the global operations of each of those companies, the Canadian insurance are was miniscule. It would be like if Tim Horton's was completely corporate (instead of franchised) and sold off 10 stores. So right now, operations like TD & Intact are market leaders in Canada, they are still small time compared to guys like Allianz & Zurich. Strangely, Zurich still runs in Canada but just on commercial stuff.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I opened a hail claim with TD. We shall see how it goes.

[Cos]

.

[msommers]

How much money had TD made, net, in the 10 years prior to that? I always hear the amount of money insurance companies make, it's sickening, especially when they complain that profits are down.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Cos


This is one thing I don't get, lets say they have forecasted $1b a year for payout plus 500mm in reserves. If that is on forecast for 15 years, they should have 7.5 billion in an account to cover this eventuality. They now turn around, after losing $600mm and jack rates to recover it? Where has their over charging been going the last 10 years. No one in industry is charging operations + average payout, they should be overcharging slightly to cover for this.

Feels like a money grab now to me because they don't want to dip into their rainy day fund.

It doesn't quite work like that. The goal of each insurance company is to payout in claims no more than about 70% of the premiums collected. The other 30% is used to cover operating expenses (pay staff, office lease, etc.). The total of the claims & operating costs is called the loss ratio. The end target is just a hair under 100%. This means as a company you're collecting enough premiums to pay all the claims and your overhead. Some years they will run slightly less than 100% so they have made an underwriting profit. Some years they run over the 100% mark and eat an underwriting loss. The insurance company actually makes most of their money by taking the capital they receive over the year and investing it. The 3% - 10$ yields from that are what the profits are from.

While it's true that the insurance companies have a fairly good idea as to what they're going to pay out in claims in a year, every once in a while there is an anomaly, like the floods of 2013. That pretty much wiped out any & all profits from the personal property divisions of all insurance companies for the last 10 years. Not expecting increases after a hit like that is just silly. if the price of beef doubles tomorrow you better believe the cost of your Big Mac is going up.

Contrary to popular belief, P & C insurance companies in Canada are not the massive profit drivers some would like to think. I think it was back in 2010 or 2011 where the ENTIRE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, Canada wide, recorded a total profit of something like $2,000,000,000. On one hand that sounds like a lot of money but that was also split over 200 different companies. By comparison, the same year RBC pulled profits of $4,000,000,000. That's ONE bank doubling the entire P & C industry. Since we live in Calgary, what do the big oil guys profit in a year? I'm guessing a hell of a lot more than $2,000,000,000 / 200. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty rare for an insurance company to go broke, but it's not the money factory that a lot of people think it is.