Calgary city hall pays $55,000 for a bee roof.

[Robin Goodfellow]

All other problems having been solved...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Honeybees+swarm+city+hall+energy+cost+savings/10022539/story.html

I'd certainly be interested in seeing the math behind these "energy savings".

[Street_Soldier]

At about $600,000, that costs 10 per cent more than a traditional roof replacement, but officials hope for energy cost savings in the long term from a roof of soil and grass, rather than asphalt.

$55,000 for a bee roof.

[roll_over]

That's pretty cool

[Mista Bob]

Somehow I doubt the savings will be anywhere near the upkeep costs of the plants and bees.
Great idea....

[rage2]

Druh must be wet as fuck right now. :love:

[ZenOps]

Happy worker bees! Hobbiton seems like a worthy pursuit.

[kertejud2]

I'm skeptical about how the bees will fare but a decent experiment, though as I feel roofs are criminally underused as green spaces so I'm a fan of that. With the right plant and grass choice the upkeep should be minimal and anywhere a soft surface can be added the better.

Similarly I feel every school roof should be a green roof be it simple grass or some sort of community garden (would depend on the community and how involved the inhabitants wish to be).

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by rage2
Druh must be wet as fuck right now. :love:

Oh man not what I wanted to picture this early in the morning :barf:

[Maxt]

Originally posted by kertejud2

Similarly I feel every school roof should be a green roof be it simple grass or some sort of community garden (would depend on the community and how involved the inhabitants wish to be).
So all the mechanical equipment can get continually clogged with organic matter and dirt ...:thumbsup:...

[yellowsnow]

Sounds cool. Costs an extra 10% from a regular roof replacement. So really, it's ~$60k for green roofs and bees :thumbsup:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Maxt

So all the mechanical equipment can get continually clogged with organic matter and dirt ...:thumbsup:...

You think cleaning a condenser is bad now :rofl:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Maxt

So all the mechanical equipment can get continually clogged with organic matter and dirt ...:thumbsup:...

Only if the people who installed the mechanical equipment fucked up and the people who installed the green material fucked up and the people who overlook it all fuck up.

So if/when all that happens, sure.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Only if the people who installed the mechanical equipment fucked up and the people who installed the green material fucked up and the people who overlook it all fuck up.

So if/when all that happens, sure.

Ya none of that ever happens, although those of us that make a substantial living fixing the never ending, inevitable, and constant fuck ups might disagree. :rofl:

[toastgremlin]

I dunno, think about all the tax revenue from those new workers.

[J-D]

Originally posted by rage2
Druh must be wet as fuck right now. :love:

:rofl: Just about lost it.

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by rage2
Druh must be wet as fuck right now. :love:

a definite contender for post of the year. :rofl:

[schocker]

This is all so nenshi can make the joke

Let's get down to beesness
:rofl:

[clem24]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
All other problems having been solved...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Honeybees+swarm+city+hall+energy+cost+savings/10022539/story.html

I'd certainly be interested in seeing the math behind these "energy savings".



Originally posted by Street_Soldier


$55,000 for a bee roof.

Quoted. Who's the one who can't do math now..

[flipstah]

Considering how the bee population is dying, I hope it works.

I love honey. :love:

[Xtrema]

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/oprahs-bees.gif

Someone need to replace Oprah with Nenshi...... :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by clem24
Quoted. Who's the one who can't do math now..
"At about $600,000, that costs 10 per cent more than a traditional roof replacement"

Do the math, and a normal roof would cost $545454.55, and 10% of that would be $54545.46, or approx. $55,000 for a bee roof.

[clem24]

Originally posted by rage2

"At about $600,000, that costs 10 per cent more than a traditional roof replacement"

Do the math, and a normal roof would cost $545454.55, and 10% of that would be $54545.46, or approx. $55,000 for a bee roof.

Yup that was my point. Mr. Goodfellow's title says $600k.

[bspot]

Yeah, OP said "I'd like to see the math on energy savings for this $600,000 bee roof" and clem24 said "you suck at math, it's a $55K bee roof".

Pretty awesome idea. City Hall was supposed to have a green roof but I think something got messed up with the design/construction of that. Roof spaces are big time wasted space, so until solar panels are cheaper, you might as well build some rooftop patios or green roofs.

Look how much usable downtown space West (now National) unlocked because someone got creative. Not everywhere works for patios, so if you can raise some bees and save on heating costs, why not try?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by bspot
so until solar panels are cheaper, you might as well build some rooftop patios or green roofs.


Or windmills to help power the buildings they're on. Always windy as hell up there.

[darthVWader]

Can someone please photoshop Nenshi's head on to Winnie the pooh.

I can just see him now sitting on the roof with his hand in the honey.

[Feruk]

This makes a lot of sense. Studies in the UK showed bee population reduction in rural areas, but an increase in urban areas. Good idea.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by bspot
Yeah, OP said "I'd like to see the math on energy savings for this $600,000 bee roof" and clem24 said "you suck at math, it's a $55K bee roof".



Funny, I read that as the vegetation/plant roof cost the extra $55,000, with no mention of the cost of the bees.

:rofl:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by bspot


Look how much usable downtown space West (now National) unlocked because someone got creative. Not everywhere works for patios, so if you can raise some bees and save on heating costs, why not try?

Because stuff might get dirty.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Because stuff might get dirty.

:rofl::rofl::rolleyes: desk jockey hey?

Slightly bigger issue at hand than "stuff getting dirty". Thanks for marginalizing the issue though.

With my years of hands on (not paper) experience, I could go into intricate detail about specific projects not unlike this bee roof that almost always ends in the project being scrapped when it interferes with the essential functions of the buildings operation. But what would be the point, you're the expert. I'll sit back, let everyone build a bee roof, then watch my bank account grow when I'm asked to come solve the issues the roof creates.

"Stuff might get dirty" fuck that was gold! :rofl:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


:rofl::rofl::rolleyes: desk jockey hey?

Sure.


Slightly bigger issue at hand than "stuff getting dirty". Thanks for marginalizing the issue though.

With my years of hands on (not paper) experience, I could go into intricate detail about specific projects not unlike this bee roof that almost always ends in the project being scrapped when it interferes with the essential functions of the buildings operation. But what would be the point, you're the expert. I'll sit back, let everyone build a bee roof, then watch my bank account grow when I'm asked to come solve the issues the roof creates.

"Stuff might get dirty" fuck that was gold! :rofl:

Good thing there are many kinds of green roofs, most of which don't, and shouldn't, involve bees.

Green roofs cause problems when people don't know what they're doing, I would like you to go into intricate detail about specific projects for no other reason than it qould satisfy my curiosity on how many such projects have been considered and where since it shows signs of interest and can be used.

Now, I'd say that for a building like, Henry Wise Wood High school there is probably a small section of it's ~11,000 square metre roof that doesn't serve an 'essential building function' but despite your belief I am not an expert on rooftop mechanical equipment and how discreet it can be from aerial view.

I wait with eager anticipation for the detailed accounts and how everythign went wrong.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Sure.



Good thing there are many kinds of green roofs, most of which don't, and shouldn't, involve bees.

Green roofs cause problems when people don't know what they're doing, I would like you to go into intricate detail about specific projects for no other reason than it qould satisfy my curiosity on how many such projects have been considered and where since it shows signs of interest and can be used.

Now, I'd say that for a building like, Henry Wise Wood High school there is probably a small section of it's ~11,000 square metre roof that doesn't serve an 'essential building function' but despite your belief I am not an expert on rooftop mechanical equipment and how discreet it can be from aerial view.

I wait with eager anticipation for the detailed accounts and how everythign went wrong.

What would be the point exactly? I'd write 2 pages of personal experience, citing examples of projects that I've been involved in, modifications I've been required to make, and "green" projects that were scrapped before, during, or shortly after startup, and you would argue I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. I've been down this road with you before. I'll save my breathe.

I spend my entire day answering " Why can't you just do this" to people who don't understand how things actually work in the real world.

Projects like these are major money makers for guys like me, repairs to fuck ups aren't usually quoted, it's a blank cheque scenario more often than not. I hope The City finds this roof to be a great success and mandates similar projects for all buildings in the city. I'd be able to retire 10 years earlier than expected. :thumbsup:

[hampstor]

I noticed they talked about 'energy savings' but didn't talk about overall operational savings.

I am curious to know if they had to hire a few bodies to maintain the 'soil and grass' roof. Someone's gotta water/trim the grass, replace dead flowers, etc. If they did, that will likely obliterate any energy savings.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

What would be the point exactly?

Because I would like to know why Calgary buildings cannot do what German and Austrian buildings can, what all new Toronto and Tokyo buildings can, what Chicago buildings can, what some New York buildings have done for over 80 years etc.



I'd write 2 pages of personal experience, citing examples of projects that I've been involved in, modifications I've been required to make, and "green" projects that were scrapped before, during, or shortly after startup, and you would argue I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. I've been down this road with you before. I'll save my breathe.

Yeah, I totally won't think you're full of shit now.


I spend my entire day answering " Why can't you just do this" to people who don't understand how things actually work in the real world.

It isn't that hard to tell people "we can do it however it will cost $X more" because that is how the real world works.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Because I would like to know why Calgary buildings cannot do what German and Austrian buildings can, what all new Toronto and Tokyo buildings can, what Chicago buildings can, what some New York buildings have done for over 80 years etc.




Yeah, I totally won't think you're full of shit now.



It isn't that hard to tell people "we can do it however it will cost $X more" because that is how the real world works.

You're right.

There, you got what you wanted to hear. Let's move on.

[rage2]

I've given up on arguing with kertejud2 for the same reasons. Just ignore facts and so one sided. At least with supe he shuts up after he gets shut down. :)

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by hampstor
I noticed they talked about 'energy savings' but didn't talk about overall operational savings.

I am curious to know if they had to hire a few bodies to maintain the 'soil and grass' roof. Someone's gotta water/trim the grass, replace dead flowers, etc. If they did, that will likely obliterate any energy savings.

Depends on the style of roof. Most extensive systems shouldn't require any at all, maybe some spring and fall clean up depending on just how natural you want it to be. You're picking natural grasses and flowers for a reason, let them be natural and forget about it.

Intensive roofs, roof gardens, bee colonies and the like will have escalating operation costs but also produce different benefits. Most places putting in these kinds of roofs are looking for a natural space for people rather than just a roof for utility like an extensive green roof so they're willing to take on the added costs (since they're getting more than just a roof).


As for this roof, as it is being used for more of an experimental roof with a beekeeper, the costs will definitely be higher as they will undoubtedly tweak and toy with it.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by rage2
I've given up on arguing with kertejud2 for the same reasons. Just ignore facts and so one sided. At least with supe he shuts up after he gets shut down. :)

It's my fault for falling for it.

Do these projects work in other Cities and Countries? I'm not sure. I'm limited by my experience, and my experience has been that they often don't work as they're designed, or when they do work they cause complications to existing equipment, which leads to costly modifications of the equipment or abandonment of the "green" aspect of the installation all together.

I don't really care though. The nature of my business is that I directly benefit from things being designed, engineered, or installed poorly, or any combination of all three. As I said, I hope The City mandates these roof top installations be mandatory on all new builds and retrofitted to existing buildings. It'll go a long way to helping this Beyond member go from regular shlub to Beyond Baller :bigpimp:

[suntan]

kertejud2's main talent is reading propaganda and believing it.

Oh and spending money.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by hampstor
I noticed they talked about 'energy savings' but didn't talk about overall operational savings.

I am curious to know if they had to hire a few bodies to maintain the 'soil and grass' roof. Someone's gotta water/trim the grass, replace dead flowers, etc. If they did, that will likely obliterate any energy savings.

Green roofs shouldn't need any maintenance. Typically they are planted with native grasses and low plants.

Your typical green roof looks more like a wild field than a park.

This is the roof for the building across the street from me. There is never anyone on it mowing or trimming any of the plants.

http://www.manitobahydroplace.com/site_images/sustainableheader.jpg

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by suntan
kertejud2's main talent is reading propaganda and believing it.

Oh and spending money.

We could add up the cost of projects I like and projects the average beyonder likes and see who spends more money.

But this is a fantasy world where roads are cheap and who pays the most taxes are ignored.

[sputnik]

Here is another example from Winnipeg.

http://umanitoba.ca/outreach/conferences/casfaa/media/QF_roof.jpg

[suntan]

Originally posted by kertejud2


We could add up the cost of projects I like and projects the average beyonder likes and see who spends more money.

But this is a fantasy world where roads are cheap and who pays the most taxes are ignored. LOL. You think you pay a lot of tax?

I have an office that's around 1900 sq ft. Class C in a 60+ year old building. For that privilege our prop taxes are $650/month. No, not close to downtown.

I also pay all sorts of taxes you will never have a opportunity to pay, because you have zero entrepreneurial acumen. So I pay corporate tax to both the province and federalis, because as hard as I try I simply can't help but make net profit, both portions of CPP - do... you... even... know... there's... two... portions?

Oh and all the yummy, yummy, income tax from my employees.

And fuck man, the City of Calgary is one of my clients. Hell we just had a meeting with them a couple of week ago where I was able to make MOAR MONEY from them!! HA HA HA!

[kertejud2]

I guess if rx7 moves to Winnipeg he can retire early. The gain he makes on the home switch alone will put him ahead.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2
I guess if rx7 moves to Winnipeg he can retire early. The gain he makes on the home switch alone will put him ahead.

If Winnipeg has head up their ass initiatives like you suggest? Ya I'd make bank, but I'd be living in Winnipeg so........

Oh why the fuck bother, time to take Rage's advice and stop the back and useless forth with you, time to treat you like Arash and Toma.

[bspot]

Lots of building technologies have massive growing pains. Some get abandoned completely.

Gulf Canada Square had a fountain out front that was supposed to help with more efficient building cooling. I think they ripped that whole system out and put something more traditional in.

Just because something that is new to Calgary has issues with things such as building mechanical equipment doesn't mean they shouldn't be looked at. There is potential that design, construction and technology of these roofs could lead to lower building operating costs. It's something definitely worth looking at, and it gets to the point it's worthwhile, we'll start to see more.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by sputnik
Here is another example from Winnipeg.

http://umanitoba.ca/outreach/conferences/casfaa/media/QF_roof.jpg

According to City of Calgary, a green roof doesn't work without beehives :-)

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
According to City of Calgary, a green roof doesn't work without beehives :-)

Beehives aren't much more than some wooden boxes where bees live. If you don't collect the honey, it is about as much work/cost as a birdhouse. My sister has a couple hives on her property that are owned by a friend and he comes by 4-5 times a year just to check on them and/or to collect the honey.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


:rofl::rofl::rolleyes: desk jockey hey?

Slightly bigger issue at hand than "stuff getting dirty". Thanks for marginalizing the issue though.

With my years of hands on (not paper) experience, I could go into intricate detail about specific projects not unlike this bee roof that almost always ends in the project being scrapped when it interferes with the essential functions of the buildings operation. But what would be the point, you're the expert. I'll sit back, let everyone build a bee roof, then watch my bank account grow when I'm asked to come solve the issues the roof creates.

"Stuff might get dirty" fuck that was gold! :rofl:

In this case however the green roof is on the 4th and 5th floor terraces and the HVAC systems are on the 2nd floor roof on the north part of the building.

So perhaps someone did actually think this through.