The Beautiful Dream That was Israel...

[Toma]

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/22/beautiful_dream_of_israel_has_become_a_nightmare.html

As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: “How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?”

It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach.

In Israel-Palestine the powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators. “They don’t care about life,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, abetted by the Obamas and Harpers of this world, “we do.” Netanyahu, you who with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you who have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who deprive Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees — you care about life?

There is no understanding Gaza out of context — Hamas rockets or unjustifiable terrorist attacks on civilians — and that context is the longest ongoing ethnic cleansing operation in the recent and present centuries, the ongoing attempt to destroy Palestinian nationhood.
The Palestinians use tunnels? So did my heroes, the poorly armed fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto. Unlike Israel, Palestinians lack Apache helicopters, guided drones, jet fighters with bombs, laser-guided artillery. Out of impotent defiance, they fire inept rockets, causing terror for innocent Israelis but rarely physical harm. With such a gross imbalance of power, there is no equivalence of culpability.

keep reading here http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/22/beautiful_dream_of_israel_has_become_a_nightmare.html

Israel on the offensive....
http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/opinion/commentary/2014/07/22/beautiful_dream_of_israel_has_become_a_nightmare/israeli_strike.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg

[mazdavirgin]

Stop lobbing rockets into Israel. Then you won't get bombed. This rhetoric BS is hilarious though. All the people up in arms about this whilst ISIS muslims and Syria muslims are busy killing each other in far greater numbers but it's ok for them to do it because there are no jews in either country since they were deported(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries). Guess it's ok to steal the jews land and businesses?

Oh and the whole ethnic cleansing, apartheid, not caring about life is so tired and asinine. If Israel so chose there would be no one alive in either the west bank or gaza. They have the military power to turn the area into glass. Unlike in the west bank, gaza and the surrounding countries Israel is a democracy where anyone can be part of the political process and elected. Show me a neighboring country or an Arab country where jews are elected in the government. Nope in all those countries they fear for their lives because the corrupt leaders promote hatred against the jews as a method of deflecting blame/keeping the unwashed masses in line with a convenient scape goat. Quite evident this is working rather well seeing Arash, Toma and Robin Goodfellow.

[rage2]

I haven't read up on the history of this stuff, but what the hell is so special about the Gaza Strip and West Bank that there's so much fighting for a piece of land?

[n1zm0]

^both groups lived in the surrounding area forever (I think even before the Ancient Egypt times) because of its land fertility near the nile or something.

One group was driven out at some point and spread north towards Europe, a war happened they got targeted/blamed by a certain maniac thereafter, a second war happened and there was attempted genocide. The war ended and the powers of the world who somewhat 'governed' the area said sure we will make you displaced ones a place to live where you originally once settled (although there were people already living in the area by now obviously), so both groups have forever hated e/o before, now one comes back en masse, both living next door to e/o with neither backing down until today. Instead of slings and spears one has GBUs and tanks.

That's coles notes of what I remember from the history of that area but certainly not the whole and exact history.

[v2kai]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Stop lobbing rockets into Israel. Then you won't get bombed. This rhetoric BS is hilarious though. All the people up in arms about this whilst ISIS muslims and Syria muslims are busy killing each other in far greater numbers but it's ok for them to do it because there are no jews in either country since they were deported(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries). Guess it's ok to steal the jews land and businesses?


Two wrongs dont make a right. Set an example that peaceful co-existance is possible?


[B}Oh and the whole ethnic cleansing, apartheid, not caring about life is so tired and asinine. If Israel so chose there would be no one alive in either the west bank or gaza. They have the military power to turn the area into glass. [/B]

With their activities of late, I truly think they want to. and if the collective world would avert their eyes for a day....I think they would.

All in all, it is a very sad state of affairs.

[Robin Goodfellow]

"I was raised to think the country was ours by divine right. But this horror has challenged even my deepest beliefs..."

Israel is not my birthright ( http://www.salon.com/2014/07/26/israel_is_not_my_birthright/)

[stealth]

Are you that dumb. Morocco has many Jews who work in the government and live equal lives to everyone else there. Actually they are very successful citizens there.

A Palestinian does not live an equal life in Israel. They are 3rd class citizens at best.

There are many limitations and discrimination they face. That is not only for Palestinians, that goes for Africans and any other "race/religion" that isn't Jewish.

Remember the Jews lived in peace for many years with the Palestinians. But the Jews believe it is their right to have that land as "God promised it" to them.

The kidnapping and murder of 3 kids is atrocious, but that is not a reason for a full out war. They are not even sure who did it.

If 3 kids were kidnapped here in Canada by an American and killed, does that constitute a full out war with the USA?

Palestine has every right to defend itself. If you came into my house and started shooting and killing, you better believe I would fight back.

If Hamas put down their weapons, there would no longer be Gaza or West Bank. They are doing the same thing Hitler did to them. Many Jewish people are speaking up and protesting against the atrocities their own people are doing. Remember this issue didn't just start one month ago. This has been an issue way before Hamas was even in existence.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by v2kai
Two wrongs dont make a right. Set an example that peaceful co-existance is possible?


Peaceful coexistence is what happens in Israel. They are not the ones lobbing rockets at the Muslims. There are muslims living in Israel and I don't see them participating in this fiasco either. How can they claim to want peace when they cheer when westerners are killed in terrorist attacks and they actively promote acts of terror?


Originally posted by v2kai

With their activities of late, I truly think they want to. and if the collective world would avert their eyes for a day....I think they would.

All in all, it is a very sad state of affairs.

Oh please. A thousand people dead in a conflict of this length is such a tiny fraction it is laughable. Look at the number of civilian dead in any recent conflict and you will probably lose your socks. Where is the outrage over Afghanistan(22,000 civilian deaths) and Iraq(estimated 140,000 civilian deaths)? So in short population of gaza 1.8 million. Deaths so far 1000. Pretty good odds seeing they are waging war in a city. That's way less than 0.1% of the population... If they are trying to eradicate everyone well they are very very inaccurate.

[01RedDX]

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[mazdavirgin]

8vPla7pqqmQ

Yup checks out sounds about like the people here.

Coles Notes: Apparently it's not really about palestine but more about hatred of jews.

http://imgur.com/mLnq6qZ

The leader of the protestors who later "apologized" guess she didn't really mean it...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[SmAcKpOo]

Originally posted by stealth
If 3 kids were kidnapped here in Canada by an American and killed, does that constitute a full out war with the USA?

Well, have the Americans been shooting rockets into dense Canadian populations continuously for many, many years. No. So your example doesn't really apply here.

What would you do if a bunch of terrorists (let's be honest, that's what Hamas is) was shooting rockets in to your backyard every day for years? How long would you stand idle?

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
8vPla7pqqmQ

Yup checks out sounds about like the people here.

Coles Notes: Apparently it's not really about palestine but more about hatred of jews.

http://imgur.com/mLnq6qZ

The leader of the protestors who later "apologized" guess she didn't really mean it...

I can't speak to the specific incident, but I can say that the same handful of morons frequently shows up at such rallys seeking to provoke folks whose nerves are already frayed.

By any name, it is just trolling.

In the video, we see a Palestinian man shouting at someone, but as usual, the moments leading up are omitted.

The Merle referred to in the tweet would be Merely Terlesky, who is neither Israeli, nor Jewish.... But is instead a pathetic little man who has spent his life flip leapfrogging from cause to cause - associating himself with anything that will provide a soap box from which to spew his vile self-righteousness.

Regardless of whatever flag he is waving in people's faces this week, it would be a mistake to qualify him as an actual supporter of Israel.

It would also be a mistake to conflate contempt for Merle as "Hatred of Jews".


Mazdavirgin, you appear to want to break this down into an oversimplistic Pro-Jew/Anti-Jew Dynamic - But this is both inaccurate and dishonest.

There are Jews involved the the organizing of these rallys, and there are Jews that attend as supporters.

Israel itself is divided with massive protests against the destruction of Gaza taking place every day.

The line, as you draw it, simply does not exist.

[benyl]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html


1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved?

Over 700 people have died in Gaza as of this writing. Muslims have woken up around the world. But is it really because of the numbers?

Bashar al-Assad has killed over 180,000 Syrians, mostly Muslim, in two years -- more than the number killed in Palestine in two decades. Thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Syria have been killed by ISIS in the last two months. Tens of thousands have been killed by the Taliban. Half a million black Muslims were killed by Arab Muslims in Sudan. The list goes on.


3. Why would Israel deliberately want to kill civilians?

This is the single most important issue that gets everyone riled up, and rightfully so.

Again, there is no justification for innocent Gazans dying. And there's no excuse for Israel's negligence in incidents like the killing of four children on a Gazan beach. But let's back up and think about this for a minute.

Why on Earth would Israel deliberately want to kill civilians?

When civilians die, Israel looks like a monster.


5. Why are people asking for Israel to end the "occupation" in Gaza?

Because they have short memories.

In 2005, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza. It pulled out every last Israeli soldier. It dismantled every last settlement. Many Israeli settlers who refused to leave were forcefully evicted from their homes, kicking and screaming.


6. Why are there so many more casualties in Gaza than in Israel?

The reason fewer Israeli civilians die is not because there are fewer rockets raining down on them. It's because they are better protected by their government.

When Hamas' missiles head towards Israel, sirens go off, the Iron Dome goes into effect, and civilians are rushed into bomb shelters. When Israeli missiles head towards Gaza, Hamas tells civilians to stay in their homes and face them.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by benyl
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html


Love the quotes. All true.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


I can't speak to the specific incident, but I can say that the same handful of morons frequently shows up at such rallys seeking to provoke folks whose nerves are already frayed.

By any name, it is just trolling.

In the video, we see a Palestinian man shouting at someone, but as usual, the moments leading up are omitted.

The Merle referred to in the tweet would be Merely Terlesky, who is neither Israeli, nor Jewish.... But is instead a pathetic little man who has spent his life flip leapfrogging from cause to cause - associating himself with anything that will provide a soap box from which to spew his vile self-righteousness.

Regardless of whatever flag he is waving in people's faces this week, it would be a mistake to qualify him as an actual supporter of Israel.

It would also be a mistake to conflate contempt for Merle as "Hatred of Jews".


Mazdavirgin, you appear to want to break this down into an oversimplistic Pro-Jew/Anti-Jew Dynamic - But this is both inaccurate and dishonest.

There are Jews involved the the organizing of these rallys, and there are Jews that attend as supporters.

Israel itself is divided with massive protests against the destruction of Gaza taking place every day.

The line, as you draw it, simply does not exist.

So it's ok for them to promote hatred because someone came and exercised their democratic right to counter protest? :facepalm: Yeah good on your guys for being apologist for racists.

It's quite clear it's an anti-jew dynamic. Otherwise why would the vast majority of these folk be protesting Israel while their own governments back home do things far worse to their own people? Oh right... It's ok as long as Muslims are killing Muslims. I mean after this blatant display of antisemitism you still bury your head in the sand. /golfclap

[stealth]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo


Well, have the Americans been shooting rockets into dense Canadian populations continuously for many, many years. No. So your example doesn't really apply here.

What would you do if a bunch of terrorists (let's be honest, that's what Hamas is) was shooting rockets in to your backyard every day for years? How long would you stand idle?

Israel was doing the same damn thing for many many years BEFORE Hamas was ever in existance, so your example doesn't really apply here. Hamas was created by Israel.

The reason Hamas is doing this is because their damn land was stolen from them.

[01RedDX]

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[Toma]

PS.... Hamas was formed decades after and in response too Israel's attacks and illegal expansion.

Israel was formed by terrorists through an act of terror.

If.you want to play chicken or egg.....

Israeli expansion comes at the cost of murder of civilians and children. simple as that.

[01RedDX]

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[Kramerica]

This is always going to be a contentious area and not being a man of faith I've got zero vested interest in the outcome of this. I've got no clue why everyone is so passionate in something going on halfway across the world, unless you're from Israel or Palestine.

On just a side note: I think if both sides were able to tone down the rhetoric it would be possible to find some sort of solution there, never going to happen though.

[Toma]

Originally posted by benyl
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html









Written by an apologist, using such basic errors in logic as false dichotomy's and straw men.

It's a sham.

[01RedDX]

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[Toma]

Think about the actual numbers. 1600 Palestinians dead to date (current crisis), mainly civilians. 56 Israeli soldiers, and TWO people dead from Hamas rocket attacks.

The typical Hamas rocket is a minor threat. About 2500 have been fired in this last flare up. They have a 20%+ percent failure rate, estimates say about 25% don't even make it out of Palestine.

The US supplied and funded "Iron Dome" is claimed by Israel to be 86% effective, so even accepting this exaggerated number, ~600 rockets made it trough. And the death toll??

Confirmed death toll seems to be TWO.

US weapons experts attribute the low death toll to lack of firepower in the rockets, and Israels early warning system. Though they point out, that the typical rockets has less than 10km range, so warning time is minimal, though once in a while, they can smuggle in ex soviet Syrian made rockets that can have a range of 40km.

This is what the typical "rocket" looks like. Yes, on occasion they get better stuff, but it's tough to smuggle into the blockaded, strangled "open air prison" that is Gaza.

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Breitbart-London/2014/07/31/Hamas-Rockets.jpg

[01RedDX]

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[Star1995]

I think one thing is for sure, the Christians around the world will never let anyone but the Jews control the land where the son of their God was born and died. No matter what happens, the end of the human race will come first before Hamas controls Israel. If Hamas can't figure out they are fighting a loosing battle then they're either complete idiots or they are terrorists that just don't give a fuck. This is a war between religions and nothing will end it. I don't believe in God but I understand the need for religion in society and the religion that is the foundation of my society is the one I'm rooting for.:thumbsup:

[01RedDX]

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[Nitro5]

So if I understand it, since Isreal is better at waging war and protecting themselves they should roll over and give up?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Nitro5
So if I understand it, since Isreal is better at waging war and protecting themselves they should roll over and give up?

Well, maybe stop killing kids and civilians if "they are so good"

[Nitro5]

Got it.

[Sentry]

Reminder that living in the West Bank is no cakewalk either:

qdeqXQPW7TM

Seeing this shit just breaks my heart and I don't understand all the blind support for israel.

[Sentry]

Hebron again. English subs.

a1s3Qt-Tm5I

Settler climbs the roof of this guy's house in an attempt to remove his flag.

[Arash Boodagh]

Isreal should be given the peace prize for all the victimless indiscriminate bombings it committed.

5Sj_Uz-hFP4

[stealth]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

Why would a country so hell-bent on genocide be the sole supplier of electricity, water and communications to the people they are trying to destroy?

Why would they keep supplying them with building materials for schools and clinics that instead are used to build tunnels for weapon smuggling?

Why doesn't the Muslim Arab world help their brothers by sending in aid, supplies, tools, (like Israel does) instead of weapons and rockets?

Why did Egypt seal the border to people who are ethnically, religiously, culturally identical to them?

Lastly, why do so many people keep speaking out only on this specific conflict and not much else? After all, as mentioned, there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims being killed every year by other Muslims. Well, one of the speakers at yesterday's event was Tarek Fatah, a Muslim Canadian, who plainly explains why people like the OP are simply expressing their anti-Semitism: http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Jew-Not-My-Enemy-Unveiling-Tarek-Fatah/9780771047831-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%2527tarek+fatah%2527

I can't answer all of your questions, but I will try.

Gaza has it's own Power Plant which was bombed. Even then most of the power was imported from Israel or Egypt. It is not the generosity of Israel that they are supply power. It is their duty when the are in control of all of the borders in Gaza. Just like in prison, why do we not just let everyone starve and live in the dark. You can't do that, it was something they have been forced into since the Oslo Accord. The water supplied is sporadic and contaminated with sewage, I wouldn't even consider that a proper source of water.

Who tells you they supply them with building supplies? A biased news agency? Even if they do, it is just for appearance sake. You can't try to exterminate a population blatantly. That would cause military intervention.

The Muslim world does aid people in Gaza. Turkey has many times, and in recent news Morocco has supplied $5 million in aid. Many Muslim countries do, but you don't hear about it. Who says Israel does? The settlers are stealing their land and farms, and building over it.

Egypt having it's border closed, I can't comment on. They should have it opened and help the people in Gaza.

[01RedDX]

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[01RedDX]

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[stealth]

You do know the Kerem Shalom border is controlled by Israel, right? When the West, North, East, and South are controlled by Israel, that is pretty much all of the borders.

No I didn't get them from biased news agencies, go read up on UN documentation and things such as the Oslo Accord and stop watching Fox News.

It sure does look like they are trying to exterminate people when most of the people killed are women and children when they have the technology for more accurate hits.

Their long term goal is to have a one nation state, plain and simple.

I'm not going to even put anymore effort and reply to these threads. Your reply is just pure garbage and does not address any of the points I mention, but instead focuses on my own personal opinion and has no rebuttal in it at all.

The fact of the matter is that even Jewish and Israeli citizens are condemning the acts carried out by Israel, yet you still defend it.

I am done with talking to "you guys" and people like you.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by stealth
You do know the Kerem Shalom border is controlled by Israel, right? When the West, North, East, and South are controlled by Israel, that is pretty much all of the borders.

No I didn't get them from biased news agencies, go read up on UN documentation and things such as the Oslo Accord and stop watching Fox News.

It sure does look like they are trying to exterminate people when most of the people killed are women and children when they have the technology for more accurate hits.

Their long term goal is to have a one nation state, plain and simple.

I'm not going to even put anymore effort and reply to these threads. Your reply is just pure garbage and does not address any of the points I mention, but instead focuses on my own personal opinion and has no rebuttal in it at all.

The fact of the matter is that even Jewish and Israeli citizens are condemning the acts carried out by Israel, yet you still defend it.

I am done with talking to "you guys" and people like you.

Hope this helps

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Egypt_border

[elite]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
^^ "All hail Hitler" :facepalm:

Kick them the fuck out of Canada

Word. I understand it had to do with the genocide, but even those individuals wouldn't fall under the characteristics of the aryan race so :dunno: . Im not completely sure about the legality, but wouldn't that be a borderline hate crime?

[Seth1968]

It's ironic that the most intellectual species, is also the dumbest.

Not only do people believe in an invisible sky daddy, but they'll kill you if you disagree.