Recommend me a family car for city use

[nzwasp]

Im looking for something under 25k, can be used but newer like 2010 - 2011 onwards.

Low kms
not a domestic
Fuel efficient
Fits 2 car seats without having to put the drivers seat forward (as im tall)
And can fit atleast one stroller in the trunk.

My wife was thinking of a Kia Rondo but looking at Kia's shady practices at dealerships im not so sure, I was looking at a rav4 but mileage in the city is pretty crap.

Previous to that we were thinking of the prius V but after test driving one they seem absolutely terrible and that lemonaid guide said the hybrid mileage is atleast 30% more.

[Darkane]

Accord sounds right up your alley.

Rav 4 you'll have the kids kicking the back of the seat. To small.

Any small cuv you'll have kicks in the back lol. I'd go with a mid size sedan, otherwise a better choice for room but bad fuel economy would be a Mid size suv or truck.

[ZeroGravity]

Originally posted by Darkane
Accord sounds right up your alley.
Rav 4 you'll have the kids kicking the back of the seat. To small.


Yes, i agree with this. We have a 2009 Rav4. Not sure how the current generation Rav4's size compares, as they look more compact from the outside. We have a three year old, and our temporary solution (until our second child is born) is putting the car seat behind the passenger seat and move that seat forward. My wife sits with our son in the back.

I've always been intrigued by Mazda5. Though I would not recommend putting the kids in the third row, but wonder how far back can the middle row seats can move... if at all. Those sliding doors is nice too. Often times we find others park so close to us that it is hard to open the door wide enough to put the kid in the car seat.

[bigbadboss101]

We are almost at that stage, a few more months to go. My Nephew has a Sante Fe and even that he said the front seat needs to be moved up. They got a Sienna because of that.

We have a Hona Fit and Acura MDX. Will see how that goes.

The older Rav 4 looks much better than the current generation IMO.

[ArjayAquino]

what about an outback? Should have enough space in the back.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Tik-Tok]

How about a S2000?

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ZeroGravity


Yes, i agree with this. We have a 2009 Rav4. Not sure how the current generation Rav4's size compares, as they look more compact from the outside. We have a three year old, and our temporary solution (until our second child is born) is putting the car seat behind the passenger seat and move that seat forward. My wife sits with our son in the back.

I've always been intrigued by Mazda5. Though I would not recommend putting the kids in the third row, but wonder how far back can the middle row seats can move... if at all. Those sliding doors is nice too. Often times we find others park so close to us that it is hard to open the door wide enough to put the kid in the car seat.


Really...I have a 20089 Rav and you can adjust the back seat to move back. Went I do this it has more room than my parents RX350.

[Phihalo]

I was going to recommend a Prius (regular) as I find them very practical. I can fit a dual sit stroller (Joovy Caboose Too) as well as a booster seats in the trunk. We have a 4runner as well and we went on two seperate camping trips, one with the prius and one w/ 4runner. We can fit essentially the same amount of gears into both of the cars, so I'd say it's definitely surprising.

double stroller:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVLBP4odRAlymJaGdX3mU2lu19Zt1r_TKODAYVXKnI2-ABXq-2pA

I haven't test out the car seats on both sides but I'd imagine it shouldn't be a problem for you if they are Forward facing. Tons of leg room in the back and more than enough head rooms for the whole family. I have a rear facing one installed on the passenger side and will flip that into forward facing behind the drivers and I don't expect any problems on that.

Fuel efficiency is ridiculous... I mean I average 60km return trip each day during workweek (around 300-350km weekly) and cost of gas is around 38bucks weekly. (4.5l/100km). We drove to banff to camp and into lake louise and back and have 1/3 of the tank remaining.

It actually has pretty good acceleration becoz of the electric motor tq. I found it to be comparable to a impreza, but if you are looking for a fast car, this is not it.

Cons - The thing that bothers me the most is the steering wheel - it feels like a garden hose.
The noise in the car is somewhat higher when you are on highways but it's fine within city drives (in fact, the engine shuts off when you are stopped or running on the electric motor so it's creepy quiet)
The fabric on the seats are terrible, but there are aftermarket seat covers that you can put on them that would make them 10X better.

[clem24]

A fucking Prius? WTF is Beyond, a forum for car enthusiasts, being reduced to?!?

Why not just cut off your balls? Same difference..

[ZeroGravity]

Originally posted by rotten42



Really...I have a 20089 Rav and you can adjust the back seat to move back. Went I do this it has more room than my parents RX350.

oh, don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that there isn't enough room. it is very spacious especially with the rear seat slide to the back. I'm just saying my 3 year old can still put his feet up on the back side of the front passenger seat if I don't move the front seat forward. My wife can still sit comfortably in that seat if she wasn't pregnant :P (we're small asians).

[Inzane]

Originally posted by clem24
A fucking Prius? WTF is Beyond, a forum for car enthusiasts, being reduced to?!?

Why not just cut off your balls? Same difference..


:rofl: Where's the "LIKE" button?

[Phihalo]

Originally posted by clem24
A fucking Prius? WTF is Beyond, a forum for car enthusiasts, being reduced to?!?

Why not just cut off your balls? Same difference..

yup, I get that all the time, but we're talking about meeting the criteria of OP's request, so a Prius is what I'd recommend and what I drive. If he's talking about a sportscar, then I'll let you do the talking and recommend a C63 of some sort :D

[nzwasp]

Used CRV or outback could work. I just went and had a look at a kia rondo as the dealership in the ne is across the road from work. I reckon the rondo is probably as big as a toyota matrix. I have no idea how 7 seats fit in there.

I might look at the accord - I currently drive a sentra with no trade in value.

Oh and i have a highlander for out of town / family trips currently.

Oh and as far as dealerships go - kia would of been the most pushy one ive been to so far.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Phihalo


yup, I get that all the time, but we're talking about meeting the criteria of OP's request, so a Prius is what I'd recommend and what I drive.

What, no it doesn't meet his criteria:


Originally posted by nzwasp
Previous to that we were thinking of the prius V but after test driving one they seem absolutely terrible

;)

Just to put it out there.. Here's something that's fucking amazing for the price:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2008-bmw-5-series-wagon/1008810491

535xi, sport package, 300HP/TQ, AWD, loaded to the nines, fast as fuck. Single owner, and low KMs for the year. $23k. Alright fine the 535s aren't known as the most reliable - mainly being HPFP and possible sunroof leak that fries electronics - but HPFP has been mostly solved, and sunroof leak not really an issue if parked indoors.

[rage2]

Originally posted by clem24
535xi

Originally posted by clem24
fast as fuck
Does not compute.

This is the car enthusiast speaking.

[nzwasp]

Looks expensive to maintain.

I wonder what is considered low mileage. Considering I put 30k on a car per year.

[revelations]

.......

[revelations]

The wife is thinking about her next vehicle already (with your requirements) .... Weve settled on two choices as she is 95% about function over looks (most men probably wont like these).

Sedans make almost zero sense for utility and travel purposes with a family.

Madza 5 (slightly bigger than a focus and taller) & or

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/200183/2008-mazda-5-photo-200190-s-1280x782.jpg


Nissan Cube

http://www.cardesign.tv/wp-content/gallery/NissanCubeNew/NissanCube030.jpg

[01RedDX]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[clem24]

Originally posted by rage2


Does not compute.

This is the car enthusiast speaking.

Haha OK I guess to 0-60 in about 5.5 and 1/4 mile between 13 and 14 for a wagon is slow by your standards... :rofl:

Speaking of the Cube.. For some reason the North American one didn't translate well. Not sure what it is, but in Japan in looked hip and totally cool. On North American roads, something about it doesn't look right.

[nzwasp]

Mazda 5 looks alright, my work has a discount with mazda at cost + 2% but I guess you have to buy car cost reports to actually figure out the cost right?

[avishal26]

2013 Santa Fe's would be a good fit. But honestly for your needs, an accord is perfect and will be under your price range - enough that you can go buy yourself something nice after ...

Santa Fe

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2013-hyundai-santa-fe-prem-awd-backup-sensors-fr-rr-heat-seats-b/582790241?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Accord
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2012-honda-accord-ex-l-w-navi-a5/1008538744?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[Aleks]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Mazda 5 looks alright, my work has a discount with mazda at cost + 2% but I guess you have to buy car cost reports to actually figure out the cost right?

Unhaggle.com is free

[bigbadboss101]

Originally posted by revelations
The wife is thinking about her next vehicle already (with your requirements) .... Weve settled on two choices as she is 95% about function over looks (most men probably wont like these).

Sedans make almost zero sense for utility and travel purposes with a family.

Madza 5 (slightly bigger than a focus and taller) & or

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/200183/2008-mazda-5-photo-200190-s-1280x782.jpg


Nissan Cube

http://www.cardesign.tv/wp-content/gallery/NissanCubeNew/NissanCube030.jpg

Which wife is yours :-)

[revelations]

^ HAHA if I was single I would take either ....or both ..... lol

[Zorac]

watch the kids seats, my wife has a focus, and with my son's seat behind me im fine, but with my daughter's seat im cramped, it takes up much more space. We are past the backwards phase now, so no longer an issue!

[SkiBum5.0]

Just bought a 2010 Outback for my wife. She loves it, and I love it because I saved $10,000 over a used X3.
That money is now going to my car to replace the 4R.

[muse017]

GOLF Wagon TDI

Awsome mileage, More than enough room inside and I'm pretty sure you can have 2011~12 with less than 50,000km for aroung 25000

[hampstor]

My wife has a Nissan Altima 3.5SE (v6).

Currently we have 2 car seats + 1 infant bucket in the back seat but in a few months we'll likely remove the infant bucket and have 3 car seats in it. The trunk usually has the larger sit-and-stand double stroller in it.

[nzwasp]

Is there a car cost type thing for used cars?

For instance wife found a 2012 CRV LX with 49k on it for 25k used. But i see you could buy a 2014 brand new for 27k cash.

So this guy on kijiji must be setting an unrealistic price.

Also what do you guys consider low kms?

[schocker]

car cost for used cars would probably just be market value. If the new one is cheaper, just buy that or negotiate down on the used one.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Is there a car cost type thing for used cars?

For instance wife found a 2012 CRV LX with 49k on it for 25k used. But i see you could buy a 2014 brand new for 27k cash.

So this guy on kijiji must be setting an unrealistic price.

Also what do you guys consider low kms?
avg KM's ar 20-25k per year.

[clem24]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Is there a car cost type thing for used cars?

For instance wife found a 2012 CRV LX with 49k on it for 25k used. But i see you could buy a 2014 brand new for 27k cash.

So this guy on kijiji must be setting an unrealistic price.

Also what do you guys consider low kms?

I am thinking he probably didn't have the promo cash pricing back then.. If you look at all 2012 CRVs, his the cheapest compared to all the EX's. But just goes to show how much value these things hold.

Really though, just do as you did - build new and do your own comparisons. The market dictates how much they are worth, not some black book.

[got_mike33]

I just bought a 2014 Mazda 3 Sport. Really like the car so far, gets great millage, 5.8L/100km combined (city/highway) $45 to fill the tank and usually get over 700 km, nice ride and can be had for under $25k brand new. I am 6'0" and there is still enough room for someone to easily sit behind me so you should have no issues with getting a car seat in there.

[nzwasp]

Does certified used really mean anything at dealerships, I remember in 2010 we bought a certified used nissan xterra from royal oak nissan and it turned out to be a lemon.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Does certified used really mean anything at dealerships, I remember in 2010 we bought a certified used nissan xterra from royal oak nissan and it turned out to be a lemon.

Doesn't it usually mean the dealer gives you some sort of extended warranty?

I don't think there's much you can do to determine if a car is a lemon or not other than looking at it's past service records.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by revelations
^ HAHA if I was single I would take either ....or both ..... lol

Make sure you buy the one in the Cube some new jeans while you're at it.

How about a 2015 Mazda 6 GX OP? iirc there is a province-wide deal for those right now, will fit 2 seats in the back and a stroller + more, skyactive engine with about 25 / 37 MPG City/Hwy.

But it's about $26k start. Will be new though.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Does certified used really mean anything at dealerships, I remember in 2010 we bought a certified used nissan xterra from royal oak nissan and it turned out to be a lemon.

It's not a lemon it's a Nissan.

[nzwasp]

Yeah, I wasnt in a hurry to buy but now its a bit more urgent because my sentra developed a major tranny leak and i dont really want to sink more cash into it.

[nzwasp]

Last night we went and checked out mazda, toyota and honda.

Our carseat didn't fit the civic, corolla (without seat fully upright and forward a little bit), fit, or matrix, or mazda 3. My wife didn't like the aesthetics of the mazda 5 at all.

We did like the accord, camry and mazda 6. Toyota also said all their vehicles are on a hail sale at the moment however the other two dealers didn't even mention it until we called them on it either.

The toyota guy said the hail sale was about $2000 off cost and he put the camry cost at $1200 below msrp which as i found out later was total BS because cost at the camry we were looking at was 24k he put it at 27k.

[heavyD]

$2000 off for a hail damaged car isn't nearly enough as resale value is next to nothing compared to what a non-damaged new Camry would be. The fact that they lied to you about the cost should be enough to tell you this is a bad deal for you.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Mazda 5 looks alright, my work has a discount with mazda at cost + 2% but I guess you have to buy car cost reports to actually figure out the cost right?

Or uhaggle.ca for a free report with pushing salesmen calling you every week. Don't expect much discount on the 5. low volume vehicle.


Originally posted by nzwasp
Is there a car cost type thing for used cars?

For instance wife found a 2012 CRV LX with 49k on it for 25k used. But i see you could buy a 2014 brand new for 27k cash.

So this guy on kijiji must be setting an unrealistic price.

Also what do you guys consider low kms?

CBB should give you a value on the ballpark. But it's not set in stone because it's all about what the local market is.


Originally posted by nzwasp
The toyota guy said the hail sale was about $2000 off cost and he put the camry cost at $1200 below msrp which as i found out later was total BS because cost at the camry we were looking at was 24k he put it at 27k.

Lies. There should be 2K of margin on Camry. Since it's damaged, you should get at least 2-3K off if it weren't fixed. And if it's a 2014, you should get another 2K off being old model as 2015 should be coming.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by heavyD
$2000 off for a hail damaged car isn't nearly enough as resale value is next to nothing compared to what a non-damaged new Camry would be. The fact that they lied to you about the cost should be enough to tell you this is a bad deal for you.

To be honest I couldnt see any hail damage on it but then again it was raining so there were rain drops all over it.

The mazda dealership didnt admit there was hail damage until we asked about it and then they said they were fixing about 75 cars and it was costing them about 400 per car - you could see the hail damage on their cars though.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by nzwasp


To be honest I couldnt see any hail damage on it but then again it was raining so there were rain drops all over it.

The mazda dealership didnt admit there was hail damage until we asked about it and then they said they were fixing about 75 cars and it was costing them about 400 per car - you could see the hail damage on their cars though.

400 per car? That's either bargain PDR or the hail damage is extremely mild. Another thing to keep in mind that salesmen won't tell you is that you can't PDR aluminum panels so if the hood or roof is aluminum they need to be replaced.

[benyl]

We just bought a 2014 Rav4 for the mother in law from a dealer near Royal Oak.

We got one that is still on the train and refused the "Hail Sale" bullshit. Years ago, I was looking at an F150 that was hail damaged. I talked to Tomco and he ballparked that it would cost me double what they were offering as a discount to PDR.

I'll give you the advice he gave me: "You are buying a brand new car, don't you want it to be perfect?"

We got the Rav4 at cost +1.4% over what car cost canada states is cost. They lowballed us on the trade, but we were able to negotiate that up and the price of the rav4 down. There isn't much margin on these cars.

[Aleks]

What dealers were affected by the hail this year? NW? NE?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by benyl
We just bought a 2014 Rav4 for the mother in law from a dealer near Royal Oak.

We got one that is still on the train and refused the "Hail Sale" bullshit. Years ago, I was looking at an F150 that was hail damaged. I talked to Tomco and he ballparked that it would cost me double what they were offering as a discount to PDR.

I'll give you the advice he gave me: "You are buying a brand new car, don't you want it to be perfect?"

We got the Rav4 at cost +1.4% over what car cost canada states is cost. They lowballed us on the trade, but we were able to negotiate that up and the price of the rav4 down. There isn't much margin on these cars.

I shake my head at the people that buy brand new hail damaged cars thinking they got a good deal when in the majority of cases the dealers are making out like bandits and the buyer is getting completely hosed.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Aleks
What dealers were affected by the hail this year? NW? NE?
I'm going to bet all the airdrie ones. I heard an ad on the radio for Dodge sale this weekend.

[nzwasp]

Yeah I less and and less want to buy a hail damaged car for the fact that if i get hailed on in the future i can never claim on it and a lot of the time I would be driving this car to airdrie where it hails often.

I dont have a trade in, my only saving grace is that im paying with cash which seems less of an ability to get a deal these days.


How would you find out if the roof is aluminium or not?

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by heavyD


I shake my head at the people that buy brand new hail damaged cars thinking they got a good deal when in the majority of cases the dealers are making out like bandits and the buyer is getting completely hosed.

I have fairly reliable information about hail damage payouts to dealers. usually in the 7 figure range.

I remember a few years ago I went to honda to look at an si that they were offering for 23 instead of 28. Total garbage, damage to the fenders, hood, roof, both windshields were broken so water ingress issues, trunk.

I told them to call me when they would sell it for 12.. never heard back, ha

[LOLzilla]

nzwasp, are you up to buying something used? Check out the 2012 Acura TL's. I picked up a Elite edition SH-AWD with 22,000 KM's for $32K @ 1.9% for 3 years. Certified used Acura's rock. I can fit 2 fat adults in the back with leg room to spare.

[nzwasp]

Yeah i can buy used if i can find a car thats good value.

[LOLzilla]

Check out the TL's than. 2012 and NEWER. 2011 and older has some pretty dated technology and some pretty polarizing looks.

Press release for the 2012's.
http://www.acura.com/PressReleaseArticle.aspx?year=2011&id=5937-en

Alternatively you may like the TSX. It's larger than a Civic but smaller than the TL. Performance and AWD was a deciding factor of mine so I went with the TL.

[schocker]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
nzwasp, are you up to buying something used? Check out the 2012 Acura TL's. I picked up a Elite edition SH-AWD with 22,000 KM's for $32K @ 1.9% for 3 years. Certified used Acura's rock. I can fit 2 fat adults in the back with leg room to spare.
I bought a cpo tsx in january and it was a bit lower than at other dealers but has warranty until 2018! :rofl:

[nzwasp]

Another question:

When I go to the car dealerships (the crap ones like kia) they always show me cars that have dead batteries. Is this just a stalling tactic. I dont see how the car battery on car lots die so often.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by schocker

I bought a cpo tsx in january and it was a bit lower than at other dealers but has warranty until 2018! :rofl:

Love the extended warranty part. Forgot about that. :rofl:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Another question:

When I go to the car dealerships (the crap ones like kia) they always show me cars that have dead batteries. Is this just a stalling tactic. I dont see how the car battery on car lots die so often.

Used car = old battery.

Plus it's not a daily driver so battery isn't recharged everyday. Plausible.

[nzwasp]

Would you ever trust a kia?

I bought a copy of that lemonaid car guide and the kia optima is rated at 2 stars for things like exploding sunroof, steering failures, self destructing engines. However the guy that wrote that book also started the apa.ca and they also have lemonaid car reviews that directly contradict his book for instance the apa.ca site gives the optima 5 stars.

[revelations]

You cant necessarily lump ALL the cars from one manufacturer as "bad" .... and vice versa. You would have to research the individual model. Even Honda has made some junk recently (Acura TL - auto tranny).

[revelations]

Originally posted by nzwasp
My wife didn't like the aesthetics of the mazda 5 at all.


Because it looks like a minivan ?

[nzwasp]

Yeah,

Anyway tonight we purchased a 2014 Kia Forte 5 SX Premium. So thats the 1.6L Turbo fully loaded version. Got it for 26k so im pretty happy with that. I think msrp was 30k. Seemed to fit the carseat, and wife was happy too. Sacrificing a bit of economy for the turbo.

Will be the first turbo car ive owned since 2003.

[Aleks]

Congrats on the new car. Did you get a 14 or 15? I think the SX models look really nice. But why is the fuel econ so bad on these? It is rated at 11L/100kms in the city. GTI auto is 9.4 for example :dunno:

[revelations]

Thats a good compromise - sharp looking car.

http://wpmedia.driving.ca/2014/03/forte5-2.jpg

[nzwasp]

Its something to do with the fuel testing new regulations showing real world driving i think.

Anyway we got the 2014 Forte 5 SX Premium, we have arranged cost and arranged some financing ( put a big deposit down) but still waiting on confirmation that they secured the car from another kia lot in edmonton. They didnt have any SX premium models left in calgary.

The salesman was absolutely useless - i think he was new. This was at kia city by the way.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[nzwasp]

They are FWD only.

Hopefully the cost to insure a 1.6 Turbo isnt too high in Canada.

Looks like $1500 a year or so if I list it as commuter vehicle. Which isnt too bad for full coverage considering I had my sentra with only liability which was $800 a year.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Its something to do with the fuel testing new regulations showing real world driving i think.


Yeap, although they only legally have to show the new standards numbers on 2015 models, they're probably showing the new numbers on 2014's as well, so people don't get confused.

Edit: I do find it hilarious that the "highway" numbers are still an average of 78km/h :nut:

[nzwasp]

I find it wierd that the same engine for the forte in europe and USA has a better mileage rating than in canada but I guess its all testing standards.

Top gear seemed to really like the forte (there it is called a Kia Cee'd and the turbo is a Pro-Cee'd)

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I find it wierd that the same engine for the forte in europe and USA has a better mileage rating than in canada but I guess its all testing standards.


Not much difference between Canada and the US, now that we've changed our standards.

Canada standards for your car= 21.2/29.4 US mpg
USA standards = 21/29

[haggis88]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


I do find it hilarious that the "highway" numbers are still an average of 78km/h :nut:

wow really?

I was under the impression they did the testing at 55mph/88kmh as that's supposed to be the optimum speed for fuel economy?

OP...my parents took an extended test drive of the Kia Ceed when it first came out, they liked it a lot but it wasn't great for the older family like we were at the time (Parents and 3 young teens) however they couldn't fault anything about the actual car

the Pro-Ceed looked like a lot of fun too...but I couldn't talk them into it at the time...they ended up with a 1.6 FSI Mk5 VW Golf :lol:

[Aleks]

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/cars-light-trucks/buying/7495

This shows the new 5 cycle test for Canada, in effect for 2015 model year vehicles.

[got_mike33]

That is a real slick looking car. I test drove one when I was looking at new cars but I just couldn't get over the fuel millage rating. Plus the air conditioned drivers seat will be so nice when it's +30 in Calgary.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by got_mike33
That is a real slick looking car. I test drove one when I was looking at new cars but I just couldn't get over the fuel millage rating. Plus the air conditioned drivers seat will be so nice when it's +30 in Calgary.

For those two weeks of the year yes.

[clem24]

Originally posted by nzwasp


For those two weeks of the year yes.

Oooh I dunno... I would love to have air cooled in my car. Even if it's 20c out, it's easily 30c inside, *AND* if it's leather and been directly in the sun, it'll feel even worse. Can't count how many times I've sat in my car, back dripping with sweat, and wishing I had air conditioned seats LOL. Cloth seats are a little more bearable.

[never]

Originally posted by clem24


Oooh I dunno... I would love to have air cooled in my car. Even if it's 20c out, it's easily 30c inside, *AND* if it's leather and been directly in the sun, it'll feel even worse. Can't count how many times I've sat in my car, back dripping with sweat, and wishing I had air conditioned seats LOL. Cloth seats are a little more bearable.

The C63 doesn't have cooled/vented seats?

[rage2]

Only E's and above have vented seats. The new C has ventilated seats now.