Landlord fucking around with security deposit - court?

[b_t]

This was the straw that broke the camel's back - this last tenancy has been a total nightmare. I had enough of this shit and finally bought a house, but I still gotta put this one to rest.

tl;dr - our landlord was always a bitch. Now she wants to keep our entire security deposit BUT she has missed the 10 day window for estimates, 30 day window for returning money AND there is no condition reports

We already have an official complaint filed (found acceptable and put on her file) for her putting the place up for sale while we were living in it, so we had to stage the house, always had a fuckin realtor and prospective buyers coming through for the last FOUR MONTHs of a fixed term lease, so we couldn't even leave after she sprung that bullshit on us.

But now she has held our security deposit for way past the 30 days she is supposed to keep it, and she completely missed the 10 day window for getting estimates together so we'd know how much she wanted to deduct.

She is talking about keeping basically the entire thing and keeps finding more things wrong. But she's been living in the place herself since we moved out, so some of this she might have done herself. We never did a proper walkthrough at the end of the lease, and I definitely never signed anything. I never even had a copy of the walkthrough we did at the start of the lease and she mentioned she couldn't find hers either. Even if we did find a copy of the pre-lease walkthrough, we missed all kinds of stuff on it - we identified a stain on the stairs that wasn't documented, there was damage to the projector screen done by the previous tenant, and we didn't notice the fuckin gas had been disconnected so we had no heat or hot water.

So since she has committed three offenses I can see here:

- missed 10 days for estimates
- missed 30 days for returning money
- no condition reports

We are entitled to our entire deposit back. BUT it seems very likely she will lawyer up and take us to court if we fight back here, to try and get $3,000+ back from us to "repair" the house to better condition than it was in when we moved in.

If it goes to court, is it easy? Is it feasible to represent yourself, or do you have to lawyer up? How expensive is a tenant lawyer (both myself & my friend who were signed on the lease make too much money to qualify for the cheap U of C lawyers)? Is it a total pain in the ass? Should we just roll over and continue taking it in the ass like we have been for the past year?

[spike98]

Ask yourself if its worth putting up lawyer fees, dealing with her bullshit, and court for the next 12-18 months.

Seriously for a couple of grand (especially if you aren't hard up) it wouldn't even bother.

Sound like she is a dirt bag but unfortunately you dont have much on your side either (no walk throughs).

[b_t]

I thought, judging from what I was reading on the Alberta tenant site, no condition report worked against her a lot more than it worked against us?

[turbotrip]

Take it to RTDS/court

[spikerS]

even if you had a condition report from when you moved in, it does not mean shit now if there is someone else living there. There is no way to prove who did it, especially if a walk through was not done with you at the time of move out. So in this regard, a condition report is inadmissable.

And I think you have it backwards, I thought it was 10 days to return a damage deposit, and 30 days to have work completed for any repairs.


Offences

A landlord commits an offence in the following circumstances:

where the security deposit is not returned to you within 10 days of your having given up possession of the premises;

http://www.landlordandtenant.org/movingoutfacts/deposit_offences.aspx

[max_boost]

She's a cunt. I hate people like that.

[bjstare]

Pay her with two wheelbarrows full of nickels and dimes and move on with your life. :dunno:

[b_t]

Originally posted by cjblair
Pay her with two wheelbarrows full of nickels and dimes and move on with your life. :dunno:

not happenin, it is 100% clear she owes us our entire deposit due to her breaking the fucking law.

plus while the money isn't a huge deal to me, it would be nice to have. And then two of the people who pitched on the deposit don't make as much money as I do, and it'd make a huge difference to them. I gotta get it back for their sake

and like max_boost said. she's a total cunt. I've never had some actively and intentionally fuck over my actual home life like she did. I need to get even with her somehow

[Asian_defender]

Its not even about the money now its about the principle.
Its people like her that make tenants want to trash places,
I understand if procedure isn't followed to a tee but honestly she has to understand normal wear and tear if someone is living there

Sounds like you have been more than reasonable especially with all the Realtors coming in and out

[BerserkerCatSplat]

http://www.servicealberta.ca/rtdrs/

Give them a call.

[spike98]

Originally posted by Asian_defender
....
Its people like her that make tenants want to trash places....

No, trashy people make tenants want to trash places.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by b_t
I thought, judging from what I was reading on the Alberta tenant site, no condition report worked against her a lot more than it worked against us?

In my experience, no inspection report meant we got 100% of our DD back without batting an eye from the property manager. Afaik that is the law.

Stupid fucking kunt. I always hear about deadbeat loser tenants. Plenty of us pay our rent on time, maintain or improve the property and don't party etc. Here's yet another case of a loser income property owner.

It's worth fighting based on principle alone imo.

[SmAcKpOo]

This behavior isn't uncommon and I think landlords go this route because they know they can fill the place instantly afterwards and previous tenants don't want to do the work to file the court papers. It does take some effort.

In your case you can indicate on the court document the time it has taken you to prepare the documents, cost to file, loss of income from missing work, etc and sue the landlord for these costs on top of the damage deposit amount owed.

As long as you present yourself professionally to the judge and have all the documents you need I believe the judge will rule in your favour, just do the work and submit your documents.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Rocket1k78]

Go file a claim at the RTDS, unless you're not telling us the whole story there's no way she can win. I wouldn't give this up either. I dont think ive ever met a land lord thats come out of that place a winner :banghead:

[blairtruck]

http://transit101.com/images/molotov2.gif

[CanmoreOrLess]

You gotta take this to the end, do the court thing, be polite, wear a suit. The whole nine yards. Hire Sugarphreak (good advice), he's know to give you $500 if you win. LOL

Let's not call her a "cunt", I think we can all agree cunts are rather useful. Landlords, while they reside close to the cunt, they are a little further back and towards the rear. You'll know it when you're there, if not, she'll tell you.

[Maxx Mazda]

I had a case similar to this, but the landlord was actually a company (Royal LePage) and took them to tenancy court, ended up getting my deposit back, PLUS my costs and compensation for my time.

[heavyfuel]

Here's a solution I can offer lol

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/2500calgary/th_TPB_zpsde12a94d.mp4 (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/2500calgary/TPB_zpsde12a94d.mp4)

[Type_S1]

You may have gotten screwed and sounds like it but did you cause any damage to the house? Be honest with yourself because I had tenants who fought tooth and nail for me not to withhold the damage deposit after damage and threatened all types or things with wanabe lawyer language. In the end they came to their senses and we settled. IMO if there is any damage whatsoever over normal wear and tear you should be paying 100% of the cost to have a professional fix it.

Not saying you aren't in the right, just feel like there is so much hatred towards landlords when usually it's the tenants that are the dead beats.

[nobb]

I feel like maybe we are only getting one side of the story here. It's easy for people to get sympathy by presenting certain one-sided truths.

It sounds like the landlord is not familiar with some of the rules, which will work in your favor. But for your whole security deposit to be withheld...there has to be a reason. If you are saying the landlord is willing to pony up for a lawyer, then that would suggest to me they have grounds to be withholding the security deposit (even if the landlord didn't follow the correct procedures).

The real question here is...what are the damages that the landlord is seeking?

[b_t]

Originally posted by nobb
I feel like maybe we are only getting one side of the story here. It's easy for people to get sympathy by presenting certain one-sided truths.

It sounds like the landlord is not familiar with some of the rules, which will work in your favor. But for your whole security deposit to be withheld...there has to be a reason. If you are saying the landlord is willing to pony up for a lawyer, then that would suggest to me they have grounds to be withholding the security deposit (even if the landlord didn't follow the correct procedures).

The real question here is...what are the damages that the landlord is seeking?

I only say she'll get a lawyer because she has had good luck with lawyers in the past. ie. her divorce. And what other side is there to the story, when I say she put the fuckin place up for sale and we had a ton of showings every week? We paid so much money to live in that place only to not be able to go home after work, or relax for a whole day on the weekend, because there were strangers coming through all the time. It is a fixed term lease and she never gave us a chance to leave. It was perfectly legal, but still so ignorant. The tenant board already reviewed our complaint about that and found it totally reasonable so she has one strike on her record (if that's how it works, I don't care about that anymore). There is a prior record of disrespect of us here that we can back up with evidence of every fuckin showing they came through for, times they showed up without appointments, I busted her INSIDE the house without notice once.... all documented and so on.

Like I said, some of these damages weren't even caused by us. When I say that, it is the truth. I am not going to pretend like there aren't a few small things wrong that we could have easily fixed ourselves but didn't due to ill will because of the aforementioned, and we had a number in mind of what was acceptable for damages. She has come back with insane estimates for small problems, stuck us with things previous tenant did, things that according to a friend of mine were fucked waaaaay before she even started renting the house...

I might be a huge fag but don't ever think I'm the kind of douchebag who would fuck somebody over

[Type_S1]

^ it's business and you are taking this way too personal. They lady wanted to sell her house while renting....there is nothing illegal about that. You are renting, you can't expect that you can run the landlords life but she should have still limited appointments to certain days/times for you.

Also, you just admitted there were damages caused by you. She might be providing you a legitimate estimate of the damages as hiring a contractor to come fix things IS EXPENSIVE. If there is a hole in the wall you can expect the landlord to go out and buy the materials and patch it themselves. a professional contractor doing this with paint matching could be $400+ for example.

This is a business for the landlord, I understand it's a crappy situation and she is likely in the wrong but seems like you need to be a bit more reasonable and try to work towards a settlement. If it's worth the stress, annoyance and time off work to go to court then go for it!

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Type_S1
you can't expect that you can run the landlords life but she should have still limited appointments to certain days/times for you.


Well actually, yes he can. The landlord must give a minimum of 24 hours notice. :dunno:

At the end of the day, unless we are talking massive holes in the wall, stains in the carpet, or outright damage, he should be getting his damage deposit back.

The damage deposit is not meant to make a rental owner whole due to wear and tear, and wear and tear on a house that has been rented for a couple of years IS EXTENSIVE.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Well actually, yes he can. The landlord must give a minimum of 24 hours notice. :dunno:

At the end of the day, unless we are talking massive holes in the wall, stains in the carpet, or outright damage, he should be getting his damage deposit back.

The damage deposit is not meant to make a rental owner whole due to wear and tear, and wear and tear on a house that has been rented for a couple of years IS EXTENSIVE.

Yes, but the landlord is in his right to say "we will be having a realtor come monday to friday 5-7pm for the next two weeks"....and I feel the tenant should understand this. The landlord's 500k investment is much more important then the tenant wanting to relax at home.

Wear and tear is properly defined yet often misunderstood. Ex. any hole in a wall is not wear in tear.

I really have no sympathy for tenants so I am biased. Tenant's never seem to understand the investment required to rent out a house, they just treat the landlord like crap...ex. heavyfuel's comments on every thread.

[project240]

If it does go to court, it is up to her to provide the pre move in inspection. If she can't show this, then it is impossible to show a difference in home condition from when you moved in to when you moved out.

If you know she doesn't have this then I would definitely take it to court as you will win based on this alone.

Also of note, your DD is supposed to be held in an interest bearing account, therefore if she had your DD for a year, you should be returned the full amount plus interest for the entire time she held onto it.

With all this being said, it is likely easier to come to a mutually agreeable solution rather than court, but if it comes to that, you're sitting pretty good assuming no move in inspection can be produced by her.

[Hallowed_point]

I've yet to have a Calgary landlord pay out interest on my DD as required by law..I've lived in 6 different places in the past 8 years. I've never bothered fighting it. A lot of owners seem to think tenants don't educate themselves on tenancy law.

[lint]

interest obligations http://www.servicealberta.ca/1033.cfm

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
I've yet to have a Calgary landlord pay out interest on my DD as required by law..I've lived in 6 different places in the past 8 years. I've never bothered fighting it. A lot of owners seem to think tenants don't educate themselves on tenancy law.
Bigger companies will. I rented with Boardwalk, which is the only time I got paid interest.

[nobb]

Originally posted by lint
interest obligations http://www.servicealberta.ca/1033.cfm

I see the minimum interest as being 0% for recent years. Also, you can put a clause in the agreement that there is to be no interest. The amount is so negligible that it's more of a hassle to fight.

[b_t]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Yes, but the landlord is in his right to say "we will be having a realtor come monday to friday 5-7pm for the next two weeks"....and I feel the tenant should understand this. The landlord's 500k investment is much more important then the tenant wanting to relax at home.

Wear and tear is properly defined yet often misunderstood. Ex. any hole in a wall is not wear in tear.

I really have no sympathy for tenants so I am biased. Tenant's never seem to understand the investment required to rent out a house, they just treat the landlord like crap...ex. heavyfuel's comments on every thread.

From the landlord's point of view, their investment is more important. From the tenant's point of view, my right to relax at home is more important. For her, it is business. For me, it is personal.

There's also no holes in the walls, we didn't even mark up the hardwood, the only damage to the carpet was pre-existing. I actually destroyed my vacuum trying to clean the shitty renos they did in the basement. I also listed the ways she has broken the law already. If you weren't going to read the thread, why did you even post?

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by b_t
There's also no holes in the walls, we didn't even mark up the hardwood, the only damage to the carpet was pre-existing. I actually destroyed my vacuum trying to clean the shitty renos they did in the basement. I also listed the ways she has broken the law already. If you weren't going to read the thread, why did you even post?

It would appear that Type_S1 has a hate on for all renters..we are all low life scum who don't pay rent and destroy the property right?



Reality is a harsh pill. Lot's of scummy fob types with "income properties" who try and fix everything themselves (and fail) or just ignore everything that doesn't involve money in their hand. :thumbsdow


Originally posted by b_t
From the landlord's point of view, their investment is more important. From the tenant's point of view, my right to relax at home is more important. For her, it is business. For me, it is personal.

:clap: Totally agree. You want to rent out your place and get rich? Don't forget that people will consider it "their" home. At least while they are under lease and paying your mortgage.

[Isaiah]

There are a few posts about holes in the walls. I've never put a hole in a wall of a place I've lived and can't imagine how that would happen. Is this common with rental proporties? How or why would you put a hole in a wall other than by accidentally bumping it while moving furniture?

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Isaiah
There are a few posts about holes in the walls. I've never put a hole in a wall of a place I've lived and can't imagine how that would happen. Is this common with rental proporties? How or why would you put a hole in a wall other than by accidentally bumping it while moving furniture?

Fist/head/foot usually will put a nice hole in the wall :dunno:

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Isaiah
There are a few posts about holes in the walls. I've never put a hole in a wall of a place I've lived and can't imagine how that would happen. Is this common with rental proporties? How or why would you put a hole in a wall other than by accidentally bumping it while moving furniture?
In my experience, either fist, leg, human body (alive), or beer bottle throwing. Good thing they're super easy to fix.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Not to disrespect all landlords, nothing is ever 100%. I've had sixteen landlords across three provinces and two countries. Out of the lot, two were outright douches, the rest were rather nice as I paid the rent on time, caused no discomfort to others in the building and left the unit in better condition. One landlord was a seasoned real estate lawyer right here in Calgary. I'd hire him in a heartbeat as my real estate lawyer BUT he is just not right in the head.

If I ever was to rent again, it would never be from a lawyer.

[three.eighteen.]

If this matter hasn't been settled, PM me. I was going to post a basic answer about your situation, but even that approaches legal advice and I would like to avoid doling it out on a public forum.