Do you have a financial planner/wealth advisor?

[dezmarez]

I am curious to see how many beyonders have a financial planner/wealth advisor?

If so, what services do they offer?

If not, why don't you use one?

[quick_scar]

No. Not yet anyways.

I have never really thought about it, or when I have, dismissed them as too expensive and not worth it yet (even though I have no idea what they cost). I am still young with no kids and just handle the basics myself. I have things covered in the event I die, but thats about it.

[Sugarphreak]

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[RawB8figure]

Be sure to find a good one that you can trust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmHabm-Osg

[ercchry]

i always thought this was something for the older crowd... once you are on a fixed income and have a net worth to live comfortably off mediocre gains.... and you know... have 0 knowledge of how to invest it yourself

[BigMass]

I think a financial planner could mean more than just "pick some stocks or funds". Could be about actually managing everything about your finances including debts (mortgage, credit cards, student loans, car lease) your estate, fine art collection, RRSP and TFSA, maximizing tax benefits etc. If its just about "where should I put my money". Stick it in the SPY or QQQ and you'll out perform like %90 of fund managers lol.

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno: I figured I am smarter and more informed on the topic than most financial planners so why would I trust someone who is less competent with my cash? :nut:

[Sugarphreak]

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[ExtraSlow]

I've wondered about a fee-only advisor, and I'm attracted to the idea. What you don't want is to have one of the commission-based salespeople from a bank giving you "advice". That's often just a sales job.

That being said, once you have a certain amount of assets with the bank, sometimes you'll get to talk to a "real" advisor, one who isn't on commission, and some of them are decent and have helpful motivation. I can't compare them to the independent, fee-only type though.

Hoping some folks can chime in here. It's a topic I'd like to learn more about.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
1) If somebody was really good at building wealth, they wouldn't be working at an adviser for the average Joe... they would either be working for 7 figures somewhere, or be sitting on a beach enjoying the sun... or a combination of both. This was always my thought. If you really knew how to maximize gains, you wouldn't be talking to me.

Financial advisers are like mechanics, fast food restaurants and Staples tech support. They're for people who either can't or choose not to do these things for themselves, so they pay somebody else to do it for them. Which is totally fine. I completely understand having better things to do with your time than learn something you may not have any interest in. In fact I'd rather people use financial advisers than just go completely uneducated.

The issue comes from people who think FAs do any more than the average person with a trivial amount of knowledge on the subject, or that they possess the magical market-predicting skills that they advertise.

[calgarygts]

I worked in the financial industry for a little while and picked up enough knowledge to be comfortable with my financial skills to go it on my own. I'm no guru, and am certain there is plenty I don't know that a good financial advisor would, but I pay no fees and have been able to make some pretty good returns (part luck, part putting in a lot of time to research my investments).

I think as I get older and my financial picture becomes more complex there may be a point where it makes sense for me to get someone else to start managing my finances, but for the time being I'm quite happy to make all those decisions myself. I'm with Mibz - I have an interest in my finances and educated myself enough to make informed decisions, therefore I don't need to pay someone else to do that for me.

[themack89]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
1) If somebody was really good at building wealth, they wouldn't be working at an adviser for the average Joe... they would either be working for 7 figures somewhere, or be sitting on a beach enjoying the sun... or a combination of both.

You don't actually believe this? Some people just actually care about the general public and want people to stop getting screwed over.

It's not about money to everybody. It is hard to believe though, because collectively most of us are Albertan.

I take care of my own money because it's an ego thing.

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I've wondered about a fee-only advisor, and I'm attracted to the idea. What you don't want is to have one of the commission-based salespeople from a bank giving you "advice". That's often just a sales job.

That being said, once you have a certain amount of assets with the bank, sometimes you'll get to talk to a "real" advisor, one who isn't on commission, and some of them are decent and have helpful motivation. I can't compare them to the independent, fee-only type though.

Hoping some folks can chime in here. It's a topic I'd like to learn more about.

That's the thing there are so many types of compensation out there for financial advisors it is tough to know what their motives are.

Best bet is to ask the advisor how they are compensated.
I can explain quite a few ways they are compensated, but the thing is, it also depends on how you invest, and where you need advice.

For people doing it on your own, do you trade stocks and bonds directly or are you purchasing ETF's, or mutual funds, or hedge funds?

[Xtrema]

I don't really but the banks do have a habit of dragging me in for a review and go thru their prediction of next 6-12 months would be. I don't usually listen or if something do sounds ok, I throw them a bone.

But that's all just predictions and for 2014, they have been quite wrong.

[Redlyne_mr2]

So here's a question. If I have some cash to invest do I put it into a mutual fund, an eft or a gif? I believe the max I can put into a GIF is $31K and $6k a year after that but the return seems to be 10%/year.

I'd really like to talk to someone who an advise me on this but I get so many different answers.

[Sugarphreak]

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[baygirl]

A friend of mine has a financial advisor. Every time we walk past his new house in Watermark I point and say to her "you paid for that". He manages everything for her because she feels she doesn't know enough about the financial market to do it herself. And there's more to being an advisor than deciding where to invest when you have a certain amount of money. He also helps with budgeting and her trust. She has complete faith in him but I worry about it sometimes lol.

[ExtraSlow]

who let's you walk around watermark? I thought they had gates and guards and shit to keep you out?

[baygirl]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
who let's you walk around watermark? I thought they had gates and guards and shit to keep you out?
Lol not quite. However my friend has a house there and apparently one of the biggest complaints of residents is that people from Tuscany come there to walk their dogs.

[broken_legs]

Anyone currently deal with an adviser who can structure Canadian family trusts, Offshore Trusts (NRT), advise on corporate vehicles for tax mitigation, foreign ownership of real property and the likes?

Please send me a PM.

[max_boost]

lol maybe a real baller can chime in. The ones at the banks are quite ABC in their approach, more like selling you a prepackaged combo. You wanna know who all the multimillionaires are talking to. So ballers plz, are you managing your own $$$ lol

[killramos]

Originally posted by broken_legs
Anyone currently deal with an adviser who can structure Canadian family trusts, Offshore Trusts (NRT), advise on corporate vehicles for tax mitigation, foreign ownership of real property and the likes?

Please send me a PM.

Sounds like you need more of an accountant or a lawyer... Maybe both.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
So here's a question. If I have some cash to invest do I put it into a mutual fund, an eft or a gif? I believe the max I can put into a GIF is $31K and $6k a year after that but the return seems to be 10%/year.

I'd really like to talk to someone who an advise me on this but I get so many different answers.

Frankly it depends. What's the status of your TFSA or RRSP accounts? IMHO you are best off maxing out your TFSA and putting the remainder into your RRSP. Anything in excess can be held outside of tax sheltered/deferred accounts. You also should self direct your TFSA and RRSP. Use these accounts to buy ETF's. If you are feeling risky then put them all into equities otherwise buy a 60/40 split of equities and bonds. Re balance your portfolio on a yearly basis and voila.

As for 10%/year, run away quick. You don't get returns like without significant risk. If someone is guaranteeing 10% a year they are either straight up liars or running a scam.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by max_boost
lol maybe a real baller can chime in. The ones at the banks are quite ABC in their approach, more like selling you a prepackaged combo. You wanna know who all the multimillionaires are talking to. So ballers plz, are you managing your own $$$ lol

Whoever the multimillionaires are talking to, also won't talk to you unless you have the same multi-millions.

Eons ago when I was in a start-up, there was a group that handle investments for a lot of ballers and we were there looking for extra funding.

Whoever invested in us got burned hard.....:rofl: We had a good product but got muscled out by MS.

[max_boost]

everyone wants to hit a home run. slow and steady wins the race. more so about wealth preservation for the average folks. just ride the index up and down or find someone who can beat it over the long haul. :rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

I'm bumping this because my finances are getting more complex, and now as of this year, I have some much more complex tax stuff to deal with.
Not looking for someone who will pick investments for me, just want advice on tax planning, and allocating investments between RRSP, TFSA, RESP, paying down mortgage, Spousal RRSP.

Preferably a fee based advisor, not one of those bank employees.

[gkAeris]

i have a FA, he is the best!

i actually went through 2 FA's before this one, now I transferred all my and my husbands investments to him. the previous FA's put MY money into funds where they would seek the most profit and while i did make gains, they took a 3% cut first (or something like that) or put me into funds that make them the best commission. bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i need an FA because i know NOTHING about investments or savings, and i have no interest in learning it. I figure why not have a "professional" do it, i mean you get a mechanic to fix your car, a dentist to clean your teeth, so i have a FA to do my financial planning while i do what i do best.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
No.... because scam

Two reasons:

1) If somebody was really good at building wealth, they wouldn't be working at an adviser for the average Joe... they would either be working for 7 figures somewhere, or be sitting on a beach enjoying the sun... or a combination of both.

2) Nobody cares about your money more than you.... if they lose 80% of your life savings on a bad bet, oh well.

All of this.

[Manhattan]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
No.... because scam

Two reasons:

1) If somebody was really good at building wealth, they wouldn't be working at an adviser for the average Joe... they would either be working for 7 figures somewhere, or be sitting on a beach enjoying the sun... or a combination of both.

2) Nobody cares about your money more than you.... if they lose 80% of your life savings on a bad bet, oh well.

:werd:

A financial advisor makes sense if you're lazy or don't know a thing about investing which is the large majority of the population. So I wouldn't say it's a complete scam. If you're curious about investing and preparing for the future then you are already ahead of the game and could probably save the costs of a financial advisor by investing just a bit of your time to learn about money management.

This is basically what financial advisors do in a nutshell:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/topic/Financial-Facelift

[Sugarphreak]

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[riander5]

Bavarian Beast is mine, very low fees

I also lived vicariously through sugarphreak but he doesnt post trades no mo

[max_boost]

Still looking for a baller recommendation lol someone not to actively manage but someone to sit down once a year and chat with while I control the portfolio.

[Sugarphreak]

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[codetrap]

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[carzcraz]

We had a financial planner with BMO Nesbitt Burns.

We were clients for a couple of years with them, but decided to pull out and am currently successfully managing our own investments.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I was getting overwhelmed with course work, so I parked most of it in Aberdeen Pacific, Suncor and Cenovus for now, haha.

Come on! Would it kill you to post a half dozen trades, even if only on paper. It kills my inner John C. Bogle to say I followed the previous trades. This is Calgary, we demand our piece of the rising oil tide.

[sneek]

Originally posted by carzcraz
We had a financial planner with BMO Nesbitt Burns.

We were clients for a couple of years with them, but decided to pull out and am currently successfully managing our own investments.

My parents had a financial advisor for many years with CIBC Woodgundy. From what I saw he was far from good considering how sloppy he was with recommendations (Not tax efficient or considerate of fees). Since he left, my parents were able to move their money out of Woodgundy and manage on their own. Sugarphreak is totally right. Nobody cares about your money more than you.

[Jlude]

Originally posted by max_boost
Still looking for a baller recommendation lol someone not to actively manage but someone to sit down once a year and chat with while I control the portfolio.

Like a number of people have said, there is nobody that is going to take care of your money better than you, so if you're looking to make your money work for your, you need to be aggressive in that.

I recently started a property management company under my holding company to buy some properties and rent them out. It's a hastle for sure, but in the end, after paying someone to manage the properties and do a little more paper work, I have better control over steering my finances and profits. Also, and I think this is the biggest thing; the tax savings. You have to be extremely creative to really maximize your tax benefits, again, who is going to do that better than you? I have an accountant who is the founder of a large firm, who I deal with directly and even I have to recommend some things to him. They are certainly not illegal, but might not make CRA very happy. Fuck them though, I'll push this right to the edge, but be careful to not go over.

Anyone who has millions and is just handing it off to someone to manage, without really knowing what that manager is doing, is asking for trouble. If you have made millions, you did so by taking control and making things happen. Why would you then sit back and be hands off on the money you made, it doesn't make sense.

[flipstah]

I'd take advice from Financial Advisors to see if I'm on the right track, but won't leave my money with them.

[bjstare]

It's important to distinguish what tier of FA we're talking about. The ones you'll find in your local branch where you have your savings account aren't exactly part of the all star lineup. However, if you go to a private investment firm, (i.e. one where you have to give them a minimum amount of money to play with, usually well into the 6 figure range) your experience will be much different.

Having said all that, I 100% agree that no one cares more about my money than I do.

[carzcraz]

Originally posted by cjblair
It's important to distinguish what tier of FA we're talking about. The ones you'll find in your local branch where you have your savings account aren't exactly part of the all star lineup. However, if you go to a private investment firm, (i.e. one where you have to give them a minimum amount of money to play with, usually well into the 6 figure range) your experience will be much different.

Having said all that, I 100% agree that no one cares more about my money than I do.

Agreed. Our old portfolio with Nesbitt required a minimum amount that was in the 6 figure range. Our experiences with them were much more professional than the local branches we dealt with when we were first starting out. However, i agree with others that pulling out and managing our own was a good decision that we have yet to regret.

It also helps that hubby has some investment banking background. I'll be the first to admit that i wouldn't feel as comfortable having to rely on my good judgment for such things.

[krazykhoja]

I'll chime in because I am a financial planner that works in a big 5 bank.

With any profession (FP, accountant, lawyer, dentist etc) you are bound to have some bad apples. Those of you saying nobody cares about your money more than you, well don't you care about your car more than the mechanic, but still take your car there? The same can be said for other professions.

I am there to help people who don't know about investing and also how to assist them with reaching long-term financial goals. I can help with their budget, what type of investment is best (ie. RSP, TFSA, Spousal RSP etc). How to maximize returns while reducing risk. I get paid by the bank, so it doesn't matter to me what investment you go into. In my experience, there a lot of people that have no idea how to invest and I want to make sure the money they have worked hard to earn, will help them pay for their retirement and other goals. I do care about my clients and I want them to succeed. It isn't about the money that I make, but rather that I am helping people to be financially better off.

If you are able to do your own investing and don't need my services, that's great. If your money is doing well that is all that I care about for my clients. But if you let me help you manage your money, you can bet that I am going to advice you what is in your best interest and not mine. Maybe not everyone is like me, but I like to think that most people in my position are just there to help those that don't know what they are doing and need some guidance.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by krazykhoja
But if you let me help you manage your money, you can bet that I am going to advice you what is in your best interest and not mine. Maybe not everyone is like me, but I like to think that most people in my position are just there to help those that don't know what they are doing and need some guidance.

If you've ever sold anyone any mutual funds I'm going to say you are full of shit no offense... Banks are just about the last place I would ever go for financial advice. The banks are concerned with pushing products and padding their bottom ends.

Canadian mutual funds have some of the highest fees world wide... So how anyone can in good faith recommend mutual funds is beyond me.



Aworldwide study by Chicago-based investment research firm Morningstar Inc. gives Canada's mutual fund industry a failing grade for its high fees.

The study of the global fund investor experience in 16 countries found Canada placed last for its high management expense ratios, earning it a failing grade of F.

The study, by three Morningstar research analysts, gives Canada an A on transparency and investor protection. But Canada's overall ranking was seventh, giving it a B minus. The only country to get an overall A grade was the United States. At the bottom were New Zealand, with a D minus, and Spain at D.

The composite scoring system has six components, says Morningstar Canada managing editor Rudy Luukko: also addressed were sales practices and media coverage, taxation and distribution.

Ironically, Morningstar views Canadian prospectuses as being "among the world's most comprehensive in their disclosure of the costs of investing." Canada is among the minority of countries whose regulators require a prospectus to include a numerical example of the total costs of funds, Mr. Luukko said.

In other words, while our MERs may be sky high -- as famously disclosed in an earlier worldwide study by Harvard's Peter Tufano et al -- at least our fund companies are required to disclose it.

Never mind the fact that most investors ignore prospectuses, viewing them as unreadable legalese. "It's unfortunate most investors don't pay attention to fees and expenses because they're one of the few things you can control," said Mike Bayer, a Mississauga-based financial advisor with Raymond James.

"The majority of investors would be better off with low-fee exchange-traded funds and enhanced index funds."

Mr. Bayer, who started his investment career selling mutual funds, says he finds the Morningstar results "kind of depressing. Unfortunately, Canadian investors are not demanding lower fees, so they're not getting them."

One reason Canada's fees are so high is the embedded compensation system for the advisors who sell mutual funds. Typically, they receive an annual "trailer fee" of 0.5% to 1% for each year they keep a client invested in a particular fund. Mr. Luukko says the study recognizes Canadian MERs include trailers, which are "fairly specific to the Canadian market."

In a damning indictment of the integrity of advice under the Canadian distribution system, Morningstar concluded some advisors direct clients to funds that pay out higher trailer fees; a practice Canada's vocal investor advocate community has long complained about. Because the cost of the trailer is embedded in the MER, the funds Canadians end up purchasing tend to be the higher-cost funds, and in the long run higher costs mean lower investment returns.

Even so, Canada got a Bplus on distribution and choice, placing it second in that category. Canada also got an A for transparency in sales practices and media.

The Investment Funds Institute of Canada says our higher MERs occur because of taxes that do not apply in the United States.

Dennis Yanchus, IFIC manager of statistics and research, says there are also cross-country differences in the fees included in a MER. In some countries, trailers and legal costs are charged outside MERs. In other countries, fund companies are only required to post the fund-of-fund fee for the top fund but in Canada, fund-of-fund MERs must also include all fees charged to underlying funds.

Countries also differ in the holding period of the average investor and tax treatment varies by country, Mr. Yanchus said.


So yeah I get why advisers push mutual funds :rofl:

[16hypen3sp]

I voted yes.

Years ago at an old place of employment, the company had set up a new RRSP program and picked this FA from Red Deer to oversee it. He invested it in something that has done really well over the years so I can't complain.

Last night, while reading through the list of Wildrose candidates, I discover that he's running as the WR candidate for Red Deer - South.

I think he'd do really well in that role.

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


If you've ever sold anyone any mutual funds I'm going to say you are full of shit no offense... Banks are just about the last place I would ever go for financial advice. The banks are concerned with pushing products and padding their bottom ends.

Canadian mutual funds have some of the highest fees world wide... So how anyone can in good faith recommend mutual funds is beyond me.



So yeah I get why advisers push mutual funds :rofl:

I don’t think you have a full understanding of mutual funds if your general assumption of an advisor who sells mutual funds isn’t thinking of the client first.
Not all mutual funds have a trailing commission associated with them, (look up F series funds) and not all advisors are compensated from a trailing commission.
I’d be interested to know how you would like to see a financial advisor compensated. (or anyone else in the thread)
Would you want them to have a base salary, with no incentive either way?
Would you want a fee based advisor, who charges a certain fee annually based on your assets you have invested with them?
Would you want an advisor who is compensated from trailing commissions imbedded in the MER?
Reading through the thread it is interesting to see that most people feel that the advisors are only there to advise from an investment strategies point of view however most accredited advisors do much more than just the investment strategies. They do retirement planning, tax management planning, estate planning, business succession planning etc.
It is true that, some people don’t need the advice whatsoever, however, for a lot of people they could use at least some form of advice when it comes to wealth management as a whole, and just like any other advice business, it usually isn't provided for free.
Also, I wouldn't consider your local bank branch financial advisor a “wealth advisor”, they are great for helping start the process of introducing RSP, TFSA etc. but they usually aren’t qualified to provide an enhanced level of advice. There are usually minimum amounts that you would have to invest to be passed on to the next level.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by krazykhoja
With any profession (FP, accountant, lawyer, dentist etc) you are bound to have some bad apples. Those of you saying nobody cares about your money more than you, well don't you care about your car more than the mechanic, but still take your car there? The same can be said for other professions.
I don't agree with the mechanic analogy at all. People go to a mechanic because of how complex cars are today, and because most people don't have the required equipment to conduct repairs just lying around. People's investments have historically seemed very complex, but only because the financial world made it that way, therefore justifying their existence. I think with ETFs today, more and more people are realizing just how simple investing can be, and that the middleman is less and less required. Cars have gone the other way.


Originally posted by mazdavirgin
If you've ever sold anyone any mutual funds I'm going to say you are full of shit no offense...
100% agreed. I read a stat that something like 96% of mutual funds underperformed their benchmark in two consecutive 5 year periods. So if you are a financial adviser and you are recommending mutual funds, it is because you are either lazy, not knowledgeable, or don't care if you intentionally deceive the client.


Originally posted by dezmarez
however most accredited advisors do much more than just the investment strategies. They do retirement planning, tax management planning, estate planning, business succession planning etc.
That's an excellent point as well.

[krazykhoja]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


If you've ever sold anyone any mutual funds I'm going to say you are full of shit no offense... Banks are just about the last place I would ever go for financial advice. The banks are concerned with pushing products and padding their bottom ends.

Canadian mutual funds have some of the highest fees world wide... So how anyone can in good faith recommend mutual funds is beyond me.



So yeah I get why advisers push mutual funds :rofl:


Just because I sell a mutual fund doesn't make me full of shit. Yes there are fees associated with them, but there are clients that need the help with budgeting, investing their money and making sure they stick to their plan. If a client doesn't have the knowledge to invest themselves, then they are prone to losing their money. My whole job is not to just take the client's money and put it into a mutual fund, but to help them with their overall financial strategy. You would be surprised how many people don't know how to budget, are maxed out on their HELOC's, credit cards etc. They are poor money managers and investing by themselves will only get into worse trouble.

I know everyone here is a beyond baller that does their own investing making 50% returns a year, 7 figure bank accounts, 3 houses & 7 cars. But that isn't the norm.

Not everyone will need a planner like me, but there are client's that do. You might think I am just there to sell some expensive product that people don't need and just padding the banks bottom line. But clients do need our help and guidance to make smart financial decisions.

As an aside, if you think my job is useless, does your portfolio contain any bank stocks? If it does, you need the bank to do well, we are a business and yes the bank is there to make money. BUT like any business we are also there to help our clients. I know I am there to help my client's out, I know that the products I recommend will help them get to their retirement goal and other goals, and I am there to make sure they make good financial decisions.


Edit: My compensation isn't based on what product I sell. The bank pays me a salary, and whether a client buys a mutual fund, a GIC, or if I help them setup a self-directed investment account, it doesn't matter to me. I will do for the client what is in their best interest, not mine.

[mazdavirgin]

Oh boy the koolaid is strong.

Care to explain how anyone would be ahead of the game through buying mutual funds when the fees are higher than ETF's and they perform worse than ETF's?

:facepalm:

Financial planners are the realtors of the banking business.

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Oh boy the koolaid is strong.

Care to explain how anyone would be ahead of the game through buying mutual funds when the fees are higher than ETF's and they perform worse than ETF's?

:facepalm:

Financial planners are the realtors of the banking business.

What perecentage of people do you think would say that based on their current financial plan, they are confident they are going to meet their financial goals?
Whatever those goals may be.
Maybe it's retiring when they want to, with the lifestyle they want or knowing they will have enough to pay for their kids education or knowing exactly what their exit strategy is of their small business.
(say from a scale of 1-10, what percentage are in the 9 and 10 range?)


Maybe someone has recently been laid off, and they get this huge package of paper from their employer. They have 8 options they can select in regards to the pension they had with their employer. There are options to take the full value out lump sum, there are options to take the monthly benefit, with a guarantee, without a guarantee, with full survivor beneifts, with partial survivor benefits.
How confident do you think the majority of people are making those decisions on their own?

If you can't see where a wealth advisor could add value (or come out ahead of the game) to those people, I am happy for you. That means you have the confidence you are going to meet your financial goals.

But, there are a lot of people out there who aren't confident, and who don't know what they're doing.

You could even have a fee-based wealth advisor that uses ETF's as an investment solution!

[suntan]

Other than Mawer everything else stinks.

ETFs are good except that many people forget about fees for buying/selling.

[codetrap]

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[TheCheff]

Let's say you are an inexpierienced investor and a particular mutual fund from your bank has a MER of 1.45%. The last 2 years it has returned 8.7% and 9.6%. Your dividends are consistently reinvested and the mutual fund has billions in market share diversified through ~400 companies(top 25 holdings =25%) and is constantly being rebalanced by a REAL professional. From that perspective I would say that's a decent idea for an inexpierienced investor(>70% of the population I would guesstimate). This is extremely beneficial to someone like my parents who are terrible with finances.

Personally I self direct invest ~80% of my investment assets(US and CDN equities and fixed-income) and while the rest is parked in a few mutual funds I invested in when I was ~22 and unsure of investing. These funds performed fairly well over the years as well.

While I realize the benefits of low fee ETF"s not everyone knows how to rebalance their holdings annually and has no desire to learn. I personally believe as ETF popularity rises the fees will begin in to increase substantially, Mutual funds have their place.

I am curious to know what kind of returns these beyond investors make. By the sounds of this thread we have the next einhorn or ackman amongst us.:rofl:

Disclaimer: No I don't work for a bank and I am not a financial advisor/planner LOL

[nzwasp]

I have an FA with sunlife, I think hes pretty good, I mainly use him for my kids RESP, and I have about 2k in rrsp and tfsa with him. All my RRSP/Pension stuff is handled through work otherwise but my kids RESP is up 20% y/o/y.

I think he only makes money through selling insurance though. I get the statements from the mutual funds and there are no fees associated with them. He also doesn't use sun life mutual funds for some odd reason.

[Feruk]

TheCheff, you should look at the Canadian Couch Potato "model portfolio" performance to get a sense of ETF returns:
http://canadiancouchpotato.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CCP-Model-Portfolios-Vanguard.pdf

Even the SUPER conservative one with 70% bonds beat the return of the mutual fund you mentioned last year... and only charged 0.16% vs 1.45%! This "real professional" that manages this mutual fund got outperformed by an ETF made up of 70% low-yield bonds, but charged the investor 9X more for his "professional services." He's just one of the 95%+ that can't beat ETFs. I would come far short of calling him a professional. What's worse is it probably takes a few hours to learn all this material, so the complexity that once existed is gone.

[codetrap]

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[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I think he only makes money through selling insurance though. I get the statements from the mutual funds and there are no fees associated with them. He also doesn't use sun life mutual funds for some odd reason. This is athe greatest thing about selling mutual funds, the fees that he's paid are hidden from you. You are happy because you feel like you aren't paying him.

[suntan]

Ask him to buy Mawer for you and see if he lets you (no trailer fees).

[nzwasp]

He seems to exclusively go with ci.com

[suntan]

Sweet fuckface those MERs.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by suntan
Sweet fuckface those MERs.

Yeah a fair bit of those are at 2.5% :nut: Talk about getting shafted...

[sputnik]

The best bond fund out there is the PH&N Bond Fund.

MER @ 0.6%

$25K minimum initial investment

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/funds-and-etfs/funds/summary/?id=18150

[dezmarez]

This a good article from Rob Carrick from The Globe and Mail that compares ETFs to Mutual Funds.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/funds-and-etfs/etfs/mutual-funds-vs-etfs-know-the-nuances-in-the-fees-you-pay/article12004682/

[ExtraSlow]

I like how this got totally sidetracked into comparing ETF's and Mutual funds. I know some so-called "advisers" are really just mutual fund salesmen, but I feel like that's not the question the OP was asking.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I like how this got totally sidetracked into comparing ETF's and Mutual funds. I know some so-called "advisers" are really just mutual fund salesmen, but I feel like that's not the question the OP was asking.


Lol.
You are correct, I merely wanted to get an understanding of how many beyonders use some sort of wealth advisor, and why or why not.

None the less, still a very interesting thread to read.

[TheCheff]

Originally posted by Feruk
TheCheff, you should look at the Canadian Couch Potato "model portfolio" performance to get a sense of ETF returns:
http://canadiancouchpotato.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CCP-Model-Portfolios-Vanguard.pdf

Even the SUPER conservative one with 70% bonds beat the return of the mutual fund you mentioned last year... and only charged 0.16% vs 1.45%! This "real professional" that manages this mutual fund got outperformed by an ETF made up of 70% low-yield bonds, but charged the investor 9X more for his "professional services." He's just one of the 95%+ that can't beat ETFs. I would come far short of calling him a professional. What's worse is it probably takes a few hours to learn all this material, so the complexity that once existed is gone.

Yeah that was a poor example and unfortunately what most uneducated investors are involved in as like you stated a lot of mutual funds are under performing. I also agree that the models like the Canadian couch potato do make it easier for people to invest and obtain great returns but there is still a very large segment of society that is either just to lazy/ignorant to follow it and would prefer someone to invest their hard earned money.

As a real example of a private(not a big bank fund) global equity fund I have been involved with for ~5 years; after MER deductions it has outperformed the 'Aggressive' Canadian couch potato model by 3.2% in 2014 and has out performed the annualized 3-year return by 3.5%(AFTER A LARGE MER). I haven't actually researched this but i would expect the large majority of global equity funds have out performed Canadian couch potato's model after MER deductions. YTD this fund is already >12%.

Sorry for getting off track with the mutual fund vs ETF topic. I believe both are strong investment vehicles and it is up to the investor to choose which product is best.(A large percentage of my portfolio is self directed but i like a mutual fund or ETF to save me from my own aggression :rofl: :rofl: )

Also too add to the topic, while currently i do not have a financial adviser/planner I believe a financial adviser is very important for people who are uneducated and are very poor with managing finances. As retirement is approaching people will need advice on tax implications for the most effective way of unlocking their rrsps, estate planning, investment direction etc..

Even myself i plan to seek advice at retirement as tax implications will become quite complicated and I want to ensure I am maximizing efficiency.

[ExtraSlow]

There's an interesting option for people who want a "set-and-forget" type of investing scenario, without dealing with the traditional advisors/salespeople and the high MER's.

Companies such as WealthSimple do automatic rebalancing of a portfolio of ETF's based on a relatively simple startup questionaire.
we've got a thread discussing that here:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/388225/robo-advisor-services-pros-and-cons/ .

Although maybe the discussion fits here as well. Not sure.

[suntan]

Originally posted by TheCheff



As a real example of a private(not a big bank fund) global equity fund I have been involved with for ~5 years; after MER deductions it has outperformed the 'Aggressive' Canadian couch potato model by 3.2% in 2014 and has out performed the annualized 3-year return by 3.5%(AFTER A LARGE MER). I haven't actually researched this but i would expect the large majority of global equity funds have out performed Canadian couch potato's model after MER deductions. YTD this fund is already >12%.
Zzz... Check MAW104 versus XIU. No need to buy high MER funds...

[Feruk]

Originally posted by TheCheff
As a real example of a private(not a big bank fund) global equity fund I have been involved with for ~5 years; after MER deductions it has outperformed the 'Aggressive' Canadian couch potato model by 3.2% in 2014 and has out performed the annualized 3-year return by 3.5%(AFTER A LARGE MER). I haven't actually researched this but i would expect the large majority of global equity funds have out performed Canadian couch potato's model after MER deductions. YTD this fund is already >12%.
What fund? Has it outperformed over the last decade? As mentioned before, from what I have read, ~95% of mutual funds underperform. There are a few that have beat the market I'm sure, but for every one, there is 19 other losers, and prior performance does not dictate future returns.