Shopping for an oilfield truck

[themack89]

I'm driving an 08 Sierra 1500, but I'm pretty sure the way I drive it and how many miles I am putting on it isn't going to last me very long. 30,000km In 9 months, and I wasn't really using it for 4 of those months.

I'd like to try a diesel, but I don't see any good reason to get a 1-ton because I don't have anything heavy to tow.

I do want 4-doors, and at least a 6.5 foot box for carrying MWD tools if I ever have to.

This truck is going to be my life line, so it has to be reliable as number 1 priority.

What's good these days considering these points?

[ddduke]

I would skip the 1 or 3/4 ton and go for a Raptor. The road I'm travelling is 110km of pure washed out shit and it's already shaking my 1 ton loose at only 50000km.

My cross shift has a Raptor with 100000km that still drives like new, I've borrowed it a few times to go to the gym and it's night and day compared to my truck, it feels like it's just gliding over all the wash. Another guy I worked with had over 200000 on his and it ran like a top with no issues, told me it's never once let him down and he's still driving it so he must be at at least 240-250k km.

[themack89]

That suggestion sounds really absurd yet sane at the same time. Hahaha.

I'd definitely consider it if it was reasonably priced. Any idea where you would go hunting for a used one?

[ddduke]

2am reply, you must be working the night shift too.

Go look on kijiji, there's tons for sale in AB starting at just over $30k. Since you're an mwd hand you shouldn't have a problem travelling to pick one up.

I'm stuck with my truck for another 20ish months but as soon as I can that thing is gonzo and I'm grabbing a Raptor (for work).

How much are you looking to spend?

[themack89]

Yup. PD 535 up in Dawson Creek. You?? New territory for me, running a dual telemetry EM/Pulse tool. It's pretty sweet. Was down in saskatchewan earlier which sucked, 3 day holes.

I don't mind paying if I think I will get my money's worth. $40k Doesn't seem unreasonable if I'll be mileing it out to 250+.

I was also thinking of one of the F-250 super duty's too. Haven't heard too much about them though. I just think they look really sweet.

[ddduke]

Patterson near GP. Looks like rotating full stands all night so I'm likely going to be on beyond till 7 haha.

I'd definitely look into it though, if you're buying you're own truck you must be consulting so you make decent cash and can afford it. Especially with how busy this winter is going to be.

[themack89]

We'll be rotating all night too, 450m until TD @ 4800.

I'm actually a staff hand right now, only started in Jan. But I've done quite well for them so I asked to be put on consulting and they agreed. Still lining up my paperwork.

I'm definitely gonna look into the Raptor though. I always thought of it as a luxury truck but I see the merit in it.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[r3ccOs]

if your 1500 sierra isn't cutting it... I don't think a "heavier duty" truck would necessarilly be a better truck for your use case.

You're probably going to end up rattling your fillings out with a solid front axel and stiffer rear springs, and the added weight can get you into worse predicaments.

People may argue this point, but I don't think a Solid Front Axel 3/4 or 1 ton will be any more "stable" on icy roads in the winter neither.

People say its physics, due to weight and the added length, but I think its marginal, and I think if "unloaded" a heavier duty front end will risk more stability issues if you encounter icy unpredicable road conditions.

I will have to upvote the "Raptor". I've talked to some people who own them for actual utility (not as a Toy or fake trophy truck) and probably "stock" is the best riding truck for off-road and on-road purposes.

The offroad tuned fox suspension articulate and is very comfortable, and has all the travel you'd need, while preserving ride and probably from rattling the heck out of your drivetrain.

Outside of "oil consumption" reported issues with the 5.3 vortec, why would you look for another truck? You could look at a modest and softer suspension kit, and as long as you look after your half ton, it should last for quite a while? I'd think a 4" BDS would be a good start.

but if you want a new truck with warranty that can take it... tough to beat the capability of the Raptor

As to "diesels" I think people have mentioned here that diesels like to be "used". IF you're not going to be towing 10,000+ or payload greater than 2000lbs routinely, and will be up in the great white north, stick to a gasser.

Another truck for "thought" for me, would be also the Ram Power Wagon, even though its a 2500. But w/ the 6.4 and offroad COIL suspension, it could offer you very comparable advantages that the Raptor does, but with "more" capability for about the same $$$$.

[ExtraSlow]

At my last company, my field construction foreman drove a raptor, and he loved it for the reasons mentioned. He spent about six hours a day on gravel too, and he worked right through breakup every year. Soft suspension eats up the washboard. Can't get four full doors with the 6.5' box though. maybe mount some rocket launchers on there. Would look badass.

I know lots of guys who love the diesels, but to me, it doesn't make any sense to buy stiffer suspension and a heavier truck when you aren't carrying much payload.

If you really need the Crew cab and 6.5' box, There are many versions of that availible in the F150. You should be able to get decent discounts on the 2014's now too. I'm a big fan of the EcoBoost, but the 5.0L is a great engine as well.

[carson blocks]

I picked the Dodge diesel for my oilfield truck because they give deep discounts on new Rams, and the used values on Cummins trucks are absurdly high. I don't care as much about longevity as I can drive a fully loaded 4x4 crewcab diesel truck for $55k and sell two years later for $45k+ and just get another one. I think the Laramie interior is one of the best on the market right now and the 4 corner coils on the 2500 ride pretty decent too.

Edit: The operating costs are a bit higher than a 1500 gasser, so be prepared for that. $250 oil changes @ 10-15k, $300 fuel filter replacements @ 20-30k etc. and the OEM tires on mine are about done at 32k and I expect a ~$2k bill for new ones.

[SKR]

Are you sure you're not just driving the fuck out of things? I've had an 04 Chevy 1500, 05 Dodge 2500, 05(?) GMC 2500, 08 Ford F250, 08 Ford F350, 08 GMC 2500, 11 Dodge 2500, and a 13 Chevy 2500. I've had them all on some shit ass roads and none of them have fallen apart. My trucks usually come back looking a lot better than some of the other trucks in the fleet because I try to take care of them.

Having said that, a Raptor is built to take more than any of the other trucks and would probably be a good choice.

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are all the best. And the worst. Just pick one you like and don't beat the shit out of it.

Edit: My 04 1500 wouldn't have made it to the end of the lease because I was driving it like a grade A fuckhead, but if I eased off some it would have been fine too.

[Adrenaline101]

In my opinion, font buy a raptor. If you want the performance of one just buy an f150 and put a camburg racing kit on it all around and it will beat the piss out of a raptor at way under the over inflated cost of one. Unless you just want it for the status symbol.

[OU812]

Raptor suspension parts are very costly when replaced.

[HiTempguy1]

What about an ecodiesel ram? The coil springs are supposed to ride like a beaut, the 30usmp highway is nice, and it makes lots of low end torque. :dunno:

[msommers]

I'm with SKR, I'm not sure how that truck isn't cutting it. Some of the old pieces of shit I've seen out on leases are impressive to say the least. A Raptor will be pretty terrible on gas if you're not getting reimbursed. They're awesome trucks but I dunno, I just don't see the need.

F150 ecoboosts are pretty common I'm finding, a buddy of mine drives it out for work and loves it. Not sure what the big deal is either about having a diesel out on the rigs. Unless you're stealing diesel off the rig :rofl:

What kind of trucks do Weatherford/Halliburton use typically? Obviously it must work for them :dunno:

[lasimmon]

My weatherford truck was a Chevy silverado 2500HD.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Adrenaline101
In my opinion, font buy a raptor. If you want the performance of one just buy an f150 and put a camburg racing kit on it all around and it will beat the piss out of a raptor at way under the over inflated cost of one. Unless you just want it for the status symbol.

warranty & the frame is more reinforced, comes with a front torsen and locker.

control arms, CV joints and axels are wider as well

you're right... a basic F150 w/ a good BDS suspension will likely be more than good enough, but Warranty is "nice"

You can look at woodridge ford, as they'll lift w/ BDS
you can get into a 2014 FX4 ecoscrew 6.5 with a BDS lift and lease it for very very competitive prices & they'll warranty the lift work.

[carson blocks]

The craptor would have much better resale than the modded F150 as well. That fuel mileage though..

[Hallowed_point]

I know we had a pipe fitter who drove a 90's ranger regularly to fort mac & back to calgary. He didn't seem to have a problem. Can't stand those trucks personally, but it worked great for him. Probably depends on the lease roads though.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by carson blocks
The craptor would have much better resale than the modded F150 as well. That fuel mileage though..

not necessarily true.

take a new F150.. add a 6" lift, black rims, and new 35 tires and you'll easily get that back and then some

also same can be said about running any truck on 35 inch tire... but yes the raptor has 4.10 rear end(which is probably a good thing churning those tires) and the big 6.2

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
What about an ecodiesel ram? The coil springs are supposed to ride like a beaut, the 30usmp highway is nice, and it makes lots of low end torque. :dunno:
New engines scare the shit out of me - I don't like being a guinea pig - but who knows, they could be close to flawless.

The Raptor isn't a bad choice, but I've gotten by with my 2010 F150 with Terra Grapplers on it. Trading it in this weekend (170,000km) for a Chevy 1500 LTZ w/2LZ crew with 3.42 rear axel ratio, going to lift it 4" with a BDS suspension lift, throw some bushwacker flares on, and 33" tires - I don't even work in the field anymore :rolleyes: . I have a 6.5' box on my F150 Supercrew Lariat (I used to haul ATVs) and it turns like a fucking school bus - just brutal. Been told Chevs have a way better turning radius and I'm going with a short box on this truck. Not sure what the Raptor is like or if you care.

Not sure what you like, but the Silverado with a 6.2 L in it has more hp and torque than the Raptor http://blog.caranddriver.com/power-up-6-2-liter-v-8-output-figures-announced-for-2014-silverado-sierra/

That said, there's more than torque and power - interior, suspensions, and tires can make or break a ride.

I'd go test drive your options and make a decision. On top of that, you could mod your truck yourself to make it more comfortable/smooth.

Best of luck!

[Env-Consultant]

Double post

[theken]

i will attest to a raptor purchase, mine was in the shop more than the road, and it was suspension failing and cracking. I would not buy another one ever, it was nice, but it was a piece of shit. and forget about hauling anything in it, suspension is too soft for anything of weight to go in it, ie. half yard of gravel and mud flaps were dragging on the ground

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by theken
i will attest to a raptor purchase, mine was in the shop more than the road, and it was suspension failing and cracking. I would not buy another one ever, it was nice, but it was a piece of shit. and forget about hauling anything in it, suspension is too soft for anything of weight to go in it, ie. half yard of gravel and mud flaps were dragging on the ground

what year?

I mean all that frame damage stuff, appears to be due to people using the raptor like a Baja pre-runner

its still a street legal truck with more "off-road" competencies

"IF" I didn't have any load requirements, I don't think you could do much better offroad than with a Wrangler Rubi or especially a G wagon :)

but for a "truck" I'd still look at a half ton w/ a Lift, Raptor, or move up to a Power Wagon

[theken]

2010, i never bent the frame, and I offroaded one time, and that was after my control arm was replaced. twice. cracked, from highway driving apparently

[themack89]

This is turning out to be a pretty good thread to read through.

All opinions considered on the Raptor. As someone mentioned he was driving his 1500 like a Grade A fuckhead--I am still pretty young, I would likely fall into that category as well.

My philosophy behind picking a truck is I'm going to use it a lot and I want it to be fun. This isn't economy box shopping, its getting high value.

I've never lifted a truck before, but I was under the impression those lift kits served no functional purpose. So why was this even mentioned?

And how come the Dodge Power Wagon has only been mentioned twice in the thread? Why is Raptor taking all spotlight?

After digesting all that I've read. I am starting to lean towards an F-150 or other half ton, don't care AS much about fuel type or mileage, and just doing a suspension upgrade if good suspension doesn't come stock. But cannot compromise on the 6ft box and crew cab.

[ExtraSlow]

The power wagon is a great truck, and if you wanted a more payload, it beats the raptor hands down. Really, they aren't competing for the same niche.

[ExtraSlow]

I used to have this chat with rig hands pretty often, and the best rig rocket is one that you can afford, and that you'll take care of.
Guys convince themselves that they "need" all sorts of ridiculous shit, then they spend tens of thousands of dollars modifying trucks to make them less reliable, less safe, and worse fuel economy. If that's your hobby, go nuts, but don't think you're making a smart choice.
One of my welsite supervisors used to drive to the rig in one of these:
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/features/9659993+w799+h499+cr1+ar0/0505dp_01_z%2Binternational_cxt_4x4_pickup_truck%2Binternational_cxt_side_view.jpg
Fucking thing was damned close to a hundred thousand dollar truck


A stock base model pickup with decent AT tires will be fine, anything beyond that is for the fun factor.
150/250/350 really comes down to how much you haul.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[themack89]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
The power wagon is a great truck, and if you wanted a more payload, it beats the raptor hands down. Really, they aren't competing for the same niche.

I read up on it on Wikipedia. I dunno to me it seems like they are competing for the same niche with the off-road marketing and heavy duty upgrades.

Still not ruling it out though, but I looked on Kijiji and they seem extremely scare. There are only 2x 2013's which are above price range and the rest are meh.

This one caught my eye though:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/red-deer/1976-dodge-power-wagon-pickup-truck/1023856355?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true :D

@ Sugar.. What brand or kit did you get for your Hummer? Share more details if you got them.

[killramos]

Hatchback A4 allroad, fold down the seats and your tools should fit nicely!

:D

edit: i forgot + Mud tires

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/editorial_images/audi_a4_allroad_montage.jpg

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by killramos
Hatchback A4 allroad, fold down the seats and your tools should fit nicely!

:D

edit: i forgot + Mud tires

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/editorial_images/audi_a4_allroad_montage.jpg

Haha..that would probably work actually. Can't you raise those allroads up to transverse rough terrain? Air suspension I believe. Step dad off roads his 11 forester on some rough trail in the oakanagan. He also used to off road his honda accord. Up until he broke his exhaust system off a rock lol. The looks you get from guys on quads..priceless.

After driving around with him, I've realized pretty much anything can be off roaded as long as your smart about it and know where the lowest point of your chassis is!

[ExtraSlow]

I used to off-road a pontiac sunfire into some pretty gnarly places.
Taking your time and placing your wheels carefully takes care of it.
Dented the oil pan on a rock, that could have ended badly . . . .

[Sugarphreak]

...

[96GrandAMGT]

personally id go with a chev 2500 or 3500HD ltz or sLT.... or hell even a dodge 2500-3500..... but if you really have no need for the diesel id seriously consider a 5.0l FX4 F150 or an LTZ silverado 1500.... apparently great fuel range on the highway....

[SKR]

A lift kit usually comes with stronger front end parts. But then you put bigger tires on, and it's harder on the other parts that weren't upgraded.* I don't agree that anything over 6" is unnecessary because it depends on the truck; even with 7" my truck only clears 35" tires. I don't think you'll run into any situations where you'd need more than a 35" tire, but if you can stay out of the mud and rocks and rig mats and whatever else, you'll be a lot better off.

I'd like to have something like this, except it's only 2 wheel drive. I've gotten better about not driving into bad places, but I don't think I could get by without 4 wheel drive. Maybe someone makes a long travel lift for 4wds.

http://image.truckinweb.com/f/features/1212tr_2011_gmc_sierra_hang_time/40302016/1212tr-07%2B2011-gmc-sierra%2Bnitto-trail-grappler-mud-terrain-tires.jpg

* Edit: My lift has stronger tie rods, for example. So it's better in that way. But I expect it to go through things like ball joints much faster now.

[Cos]

.

[ddduke]

You really should just talk to the guys on your rig and just watch what everyone else drives. You're getting a lot of advice from guys who have never actually driven these roads and have never seen the damage they cause. It isn't the odd run to Maclean Creek, it's thousand of kms of rutted, fucked up roads that aren't maintained and covered in deer/moose.

There's a reason why directional companies buy 3/4 ton trucks for all staff hands, suspension and hitting animals. Have fun hitting a moose in a forester or allroad.


Originally posted by killramos
Hatchback A4 allroad, fold down the seats and your tools should fit nicely!

:D

edit: i forgot + Mud tires

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/editorial_images/audi_a4_allroad_montage.jpg

I definitely would not recommend this. Unless you love the smell of invert in your vehicle and want to inhale that shit all the time.

[syscal]

Dodge 1500 has diesel now I think... :dunno:

[ExtraSlow]

They do, although I haven't heard many "real world" reviews of that engine. It's an expensive option too, $4500 over the 5.7L Hemi. I don't think you'd make your money back on fuel savings, although possibly on resale.

Anybody driven one, how's the grunt?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

My Personal opinion is that ANY aftermarket lift or major upsizing of tires from stock will decrease long-term durability.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
My Personal opinion is that ANY aftermarket lift or major upsizing of tires from stock will decrease long-term durability.

So... outside of the Raptor & the Powerwagon, and perhaps the new Tundra TRD PRO (another option I forgot to mention)

even with an FX4/Z71 you still have suspension that is mostly meant for "duty" and for "on-road" performance.

I have the "offroad" and max tow package, but really its a difference of having a button for off-road descent.

IF you need travel and dampening to preserve drivetrain and passangers, aftermarket suspension (if even its not a lift) is not going to be detramental.

If I bought a 2500 truck and was going to use it for primarily offroad, cause I needed payload out there, I'd go for Rancho shocks in a heartbeat. The lift is really to clear tires for "more clearance". But if more height isn't required, the only reason to lift is for show.

[firebane]

Regarding lifts lets not forget that not all trucks are using IFS front ends. Dodge uses a solid axle on the front end of their trucks.

So lifting a Dodge compared to a Chevy which uses IFS will be completely different. IFS sucks balls when it comes to lift kits and wear and tear compared to a vehicle using a solid axle front end.

[Hallowed_point]

I'm surprised that fuel economy isn't being mentioned. Not being an oil field worker maybe this is an irrelevant question. That is, if you're being comped for fuel used for work purposes. With that in mind, I'd probably say go with a Nissan Frontier 4x4 with a stick shift and the 4.0 V6..or a Ranger.

It seems that most of the "McKenzie Towne rig worker krew need stacks and a 48" lift to hit up the local walmart but they may have more money than common sense.

I've seen many a lifted ford/dodge with a broken drive shaft left stranded in a parking lot. I'm really curious as to how in the heck they manage to break them on pavement..horrible pinion angle? I know that if I owned a 4x4 it would stay at stock height. #1 over 6 feet tall..#2 it seems to cause a lot more wear and tear on stock parts.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
I'm surprised that fuel economy isn't being mentioned. Not being an oil field worker maybe this is an irrelevant question. That is, if you're being comped for fuel used for work purposes. With that in mind, I'd probably say go with a Nissan Frontier 4x4 with a stick shift and the 4.0 V6..or a Ranger.

It seems that most of the "McKenzie Towne rig worker krew need stacks and a 48" lift to hit up the local walmart but they may have more money than common sense.

I've seen many a lifted ford/dodge with a broken drive shaft left stranded in a parking lot. I'm really curious as to how in the heck they manage to break them on pavement..horrible pinion angle? I know that if I owned a 4x4 it would stay at stock height. #1 over 6 feet tall..#2 it seems to cause a lot more wear and tear on stock parts.

People install lift kits incorrectly all the time or don't use the proper parts. Also take into consideration that yes installing a lift kit can make other things break but that just means they were worn out already.

As I stated earlier IFS don't do well with lift kits which is why you'll see so many people swapping IFS over a SAS.

SAS is far superior to IFS for most things and tends to be a lot stronger.

[Hallowed_point]

^Thanks. That makes sense. Pretty scary actually. Yet another reason I avoid trucks on deerfoot when possible. I always wonder how many of them (rig workers) upgrade brake calipers and rotors with those huge lifts and wheels. Because I almost always see the stock dinky calipers peaking out of big rims.

[r3ccOs]

I've lifted lots of vehicles, and most of the time a lift is for more form than function.

Adding "spacers" to just lift the truck without adding further dampening or articulation, doesn't add much value other than adding taller tires.

outside of clearing obsitcles this does nothing offroad of providing more "traction"

A lift with dampeners, springs, bumpstop, driveshaft spacers and brackets for the front axel + CV arms will ensure that the angles of both pinions and CV(s) and balljoints are maintained.

this is why a leveling kit doesn't do anything to make a truck any more compentant offroad, other than being able to clear larger tires.

[stillworking]

The reality is that any truck will do the job. I've driven all the different brands and engines for survey work ie. rough as it gets. and the all have their high and low points. Nowadays, you can find any of the big brands doing the job well. What makes a smart operator is when they look at their vehicle as a profit centre. Total cost of ownership (purchase price, fuel costs, repair costs, insurance, other costs) and reliability is where I would be looking at. Whether I had a Chev Z71, Tundra, or F350 Diesel, I always got the job done - No matter what.

IMO, the smartest option is a Toyota Tacoma V6 (maybe with a 2" lift), ARB winch bumper, and keep it for a long time. Next would be an F150 Ecoboost.

With all the money you'd save, you could hot shot out a Driving Force Rental if it ever broke down.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[firebane]

Tacos are for white boys who wear sandals and want to feel like a outdoorsman.

[msommers]

Originally posted by firebane
Tacos are for white boys who wear sandals and want to feel like a outdoorsman.

:rofl: :rofl: I disagree 100% but fuck that's hilarious :clap:

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by stillworking
IMO, the smartest option is a Toyota Tacoma V6 (maybe with a 2" lift), ARB winch bumper, and keep it for a long time.

Not really sure how that is going to help you out in the field considering the Tacoma has practically no power and it's not full sized. If you are going to suggest a Toyota you probably should be suggesting the Tundra.

[xnvy]

Can't go wrong with this! (http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=44020.0) :D

[stillworking]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I'd be tempted to go Colorado. A new diesel engine, lower up front cost, lighter so it won't be as bad on tires and parts:

I hadn't seen that yet, cool, but I would still take a Toyota.


Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Not really sure how that is going to help you out in the field considering the Tacoma has practically no power and it's not full sized. If you are going to suggest a Toyota you probably should be suggesting the Tundra.

Umm. I'm pretty sure the Tacoma has enough power to get up and down snowy/muddy/whatever lease roads while carrying tools and equipment. If a person does not require the payload or towing capacity of a larger truck, then all that money goes down the drain. Look up rightsizing/fleet rightsizing. Please substantiate your argument if you reply.

[firebane]

Originally posted by xnvy
Can't go wrong with this! (http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=44020.0) :D

Stay far far away. Parts for those things are $$$ and hard to find.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by stillworking
Umm. I'm pretty sure the Tacoma has enough power to get up and down snowy/muddy/whatever lease roads while carrying tools and equipment. If a person does not require the payload or towing capacity of a larger truck, then all that money goes down the drain. Look up rightsizing/fleet rightsizing. Please substantiate your argument if you reply.

:nut: I have no idea wtf you are carrying when you go out on site but the Tacoma can't handle jack squat for weight in the box. I mean if you don't have to bring anything with you sure but if you actually want to bring anything heavy in with you over a lease road then you're going to have a bad time. The suspension isn't designed for carrying weight period.

Case in point fleet trucks for weatherford, schlumberger, baker hughes, canyon, BJ, they are all using full sized trucks. Not a single Tacoma in sight.

[killramos]

Our guys had issues with the LSD equipped ford's as a note. Aparently they aren't sealed worth shit and end up full of mud and water if you even look at anything bud a dry road freezing in the winter.

We recently started leasing dodges instead.

[r3ccOs]

I just spent an afternoon with a guy who purchases/sells trucks on the wholesale from fleet returns and with our dollar... mostly selling to the US.

at the end of the day, a number of lease returns have already been heavily depreciated as manufacturers knows what these companies, whether be O&G or Construction, uses their trucks hard.

He vetts the leaseback and the company he works for will buy an allotment of them, as many dealers in the City also will.

It is pretty unique to be in this situation (alberta)... but the fact of the matter is that Oil Services, Operators and Construction companies are not in the business of owning/maintaining a fleet, but need at any given time dependable trucks.

Once he vetts these trucks, and even if they show significant wear for their mileage... they are bought for a good discount prior to even being on the wholesale network.

finding customers isn't tough neither, as the margins are great and these trucks are "one owner", "low mileage".

So after asking his opinion on trucks... his opinions.
F150 with Airbags and the ecoboost will do the trick for most people, and isn't heavy enough to break itself down on fire/lease roads.

Of the heavy duty trucks he see's, his opinion:
Best HD truck right now is a Superduty w/ the 6.7

Even though unloaded a Sierra/Silverado HD may feel nicer with its IFS front end, the Superduty just does everything easier.

Ram.. the Cummins is bulletproof, but their asin transmission and overall front end is terrible.

Sierra Silverado are great trucks, but don't hold up as well on the Patch as the Superduty.

He happens to also build and race in the Baja 500 races in ensenada. they have a 91 F150 in the "vintage" class with a 427 w/ a 750cfm carb that they compete with.

He says just based strickly on what he's seen as attending other races like the 1000, and spending time talking to some ford engineers, he's pretty sold on the Raptor.
apparently the one submitted in 2015 is a aluminum body (but based on the 12th gen) on a Raptor suspension/drivetrain with an Ecoboost 2.7... (kinda a freak truck).

Being that he had a few trucks around, his own Personal Silverado Duramax, a F350 lariat and a H2
and what he does for a living, he's telling me that his opinion isn't "bias" but rather empirical based on the parameters of what he evaluates.

In no order I think ultimately this is what his take was for a rig truck.
Cheapest option:
F150 w/ airbags (when the duty is required)

Proven options:
Ford Superduty w/ Diesel
Silverado/Sierra HD w/ Diesel

Now, I had asked him about Gas vs. Diesel.
The answer, especially if purchasing new... is that extra 7k investment "new" will reduce depreciation back 10-15k in resale.

However with that being said, he does say that the F150 6.2 in the F250 is a very good application and reliable and can be had "cheap" used.
The 5.7 2500 in the RAM is very underwhelming as is the 6.0 in the Sierra

[stillworking]

^:thumbsup:

F350 Diesel is my favorite truck, I just don't know if I'll ever be able to justify one. I remember trying to convince one of my first bosses that we needed the 7.3 Powerstroke because it had more power then my 5.9 Cummins. It wouldn't be till later on I figured out we didn't actually need a diesel engine at all or more power for what we did. The Cummins were going for top dollar in the states at the time with 160km Before they changed the warranty regulations around.

This would be the ideal time for OP to chime in with exactly how much his MWD tools weigh ...

[ddduke]

Originally posted by stillworking

This would be the ideal time for OP to chime in with exactly how much his MWD tools weigh ...

He'll carry so little weight it won't even register. All his personal belongings which will amount to maybe 100lbs and max 500lbs worth of tools. So, 600lbs max with no passengers.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
The issue with newer Dodges is they tend to wear out really fast in the front end when you run them on service roads. I still think the Raptor is a better choice just because the suspension is more suitable.

I'd rather go to a diesel 3500 with Dodge as well if I was using it for service roads... that is what 90% of the logging industry uses, mainly because it is cost effective long term compared to other trucks on the market.


Aside from engine power and that goofy Warn; The power wagon is also still not nearly as well equipped as the H3T (w/ adventure package) was out of the box. Just say'n...



Depends on what you start with to some degree as well, I could put 35's on my truck with no lift (OEM is 33"), I think the Raptors come with 35's.

I don't think up sizing tires more than about 2" is a good idea without reinforcing the entire drive-line. Also what I don't like about larger lifts is it changes all of the angles for CV's and drive shafts.
The reason the power wagon has a gas motor instead of a cummins is the engine weight difference, cummins trucks are hard on front ends because the motor is 1100 lbs, twice the weight of the 6.4 hemi. Engine weight offroad is a killer. I haven't heard of any front end problems on the PW trucks.
Looking at the PW's standard equipment it seems pretty well equipped out of the box, even compared to the H3 AP. The PW is a 3/4 ton truck that comes with sway bar disconnects, and front and rear electronic locking diffs, and that goofy warn happens to be a 12,000 lb winch.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by firebane
Regarding lifts lets not forget that not all trucks are using IFS front ends. Dodge uses a solid axle on the front end of their trucks.

So lifting a Dodge compared to a Chevy which uses IFS will be completely different. IFS sucks balls when it comes to lift kits and wear and tear compared to a vehicle using a solid axle front end.
It's fun to look at IFS vehicles that have been lifted, the body goes up, and the suspension seems to come down. Sure they have big tires, but they have all the brackets and underpinnings dropped and hanging back behind the front tires, it doesn't appear to have really accomplished much in terms of ground clearance, maybe at the front bumper.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Maxt

It's fun to look at IFS vehicles that have been lifted, the body goes up, and the suspension seems to come down. Sure they have big tires, but they have all the brackets and underpinnings dropped and hanging back behind the front tires, it doesn't appear to have really accomplished much in terms of ground clearance, maybe at the front bumper.

and the difference with a solid axle? you pumpkin and axel shafts, ujoints and everything remains center the the tire as anything else does...

other thing is that the width changes as you lift up IFS so its arms become "shortened" relatively... so having a lift with longer Arms and axel shafts are important.

from handling weight though, you'd think IFS wouldn't do the job, but if you look at trophy trucks/pre-runners they seem to do a better job than a solid front end.

where a solid front axel will do better overall should be for load & articulation

but I do agree, the Power Wagon is a hot truck.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Agreed on the weight, that is the main reason for front wear on components. Although the 3500 tends to be beefed up and more durable than the 1500/2500 and the diesel still makes it more cost effective even with the extra maintenance.

I called the Warn goofy simply because while Warn makes a really great 8000~9000lb winch, the 12K winches they make are crap. The H1 guys who have used them have basically had endless problems, ditto for local folks. You are way better off with something like a Mile Marker in that weight range.

I don't think the PW is better equipped than an H3T with the AP... if you compare directly: PW VS H3T
Approch Angle: 34 VS 37.5
Depart Angle: 23.5 VS 34.7
Diff Gearing: 4.10 VS 4.56
T-Case Ratio: 2.64:1 VS 4:1
Tire Size: 32" VS 33"

Aside from that, they have the same shocks... which were too light duty on the H3T anyway, I doubt they would last long on a PW given it weights more than 1000lbs more.

The PW has more ground clearance by about 4" (14.5" VS 10.2")... but that is just lift they put in to clear the larger tires coupled with the fact the H3T uses IFS. And if you compare the OEM height of the H3T at 73.2", while the PW stands 81" tall, that is nearly 8" higher. I'd take the lower centre of gravity in conjunction with the larger tires any day of the week in a real off-road situation.


Not trying to downplay it too much, it is still a well equipped great off-road truck. It also has more power, and a clear advantage for towing and payload. It really comes down to what you need in terms of utility.... er... that and the fact the H3T isn't made anymore and the adventure pacakge versions for sale are practically non-existant.

I'm not going to bash the H3T, but its not a full sized truck...
It lacks capability and the motor of a full size, as well its not a full size truck.

I admit, it was reasonabily well done for a small SUV/SUT built for purpose vehicle.

To me, its a bit of a continuation of the ZR2 series Blazers that the Colorado/H3s replaced.

with that being said, its probably more fair to compare a Jeep Rubicon to that truck, and I'd say that I'd give the Jeep w/ the new 3.6 an advantage.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Maxt]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


and the difference with a solid axle? you pumpkin and axel shafts, ujoints and everything remains center the the tire as anything else does...

other thing is that the width changes as you lift up IFS so its arms become "shortened" relatively... so having a lift with longer Arms and axel shafts are important.

from handling weight though, you'd think IFS wouldn't do the job, but if you look at trophy trucks/pre-runners they seem to do a better job than a solid front end.

where a solid front axel will do better overall should be for load & articulation

but I do agree, the Power Wagon is a hot truck.
The low hanging parts on a solid axles truck though are not hanging low on a flat horizontal plane and for so far back. Its really apparent on the full size chevs with the lift kits. The advantage for solid axle has always been popping up and over obstacles. IIRC, most trophy trucks are 2wd, they have massive front wheel travel, not sure the CV's would take that kind of travel.

[themack89]

There is a ton of info to digest in this thread... I am starting to lean towards a F-250 Super Duty diesel. Mostly because it will satisfy what I was looking for, and retain a good amount of resale value if I mile the fuck out of it (which I plan to do, because I don't usually change vehicles unless I have a good reason; in this particular case I don't want my GM to fall apart on me which it feels like it will).

Is there anybody who strongly advises against this? And would I need some suspension upgrades for it to make it last?

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by themack89
There is a ton of info to digest in this thread... I am starting to lean towards a F-250 Super Duty diesel. Mostly because it will satisfy what I was looking for, and retain a good amount of resale value if I mile the fuck out of it (which I plan to do, because I don't usually change vehicles unless I have a good reason; in this particular case I don't want my GM to fall apart on me which it feels like it will).

Is there anybody who strongly advises against this? And would I need some suspension upgrades for it to make it last?

if you need capacity over a half ton, I'd say the superduty diesel is the way to go.

that being said, a 350 is not much different than the 250 and you may find a used one for about the same amount.

I still think a half ton stock would already ride better than an unloaded heavy duty truck, so it depends on how much you need to haul.

if you don't get a F350, you may get made fun of, cause that's the service industry :)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Diesel sounds like the way to go, and it really comes down to this or the Dodge.

Personally I'd go Dodge for a few reasons;
1) The Cummins is such a proven work horse
2) Dodge usually has a gazillion discounts compared to Ford
3) Reliability over Ford

The Ford is probably nicer fit and finish, but I think the Dodge is more suitable for the job

Cummins is absoutely an amazing engine... they're used in International trucks

My nieghbor swore by his 5.9 and I believe the 6.7 is just as sturdy, yet with more hp and bottom end.

That being said, I don't think in a 1 ton application you're going to see any issues with the Duramax, the current 6.7 Powerstroke neither, and its highly unlikely the engine will be worked to the point where the powerplant is the main consideration.

The same can be said about transmissions, where the Allison 1000 is class leading.

From a relaibility perspective, I am just not positive about Dodge. From the half tons to the 1 tons, they're just so prone to front end issues, and associated costs, that I've heard they just require so much preventive maintenace that they're not worth looking at.

The guy I talked to on Sunday was adament that Fords last lease roads best but also that an "unloaded" or lightly loaded GMC/Chev HD rides the nicest.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above... but with that being said, Used 2500 gassers can be had for pretty good prices... (about the price of half ton equivillients)

but if you're buying new, or close to new, yes a diesel will retain a better resale.

[msommers]

Just curious but why diesel? Better fuel economy? More reliable engine?

[SKR]

Just for comparison's sake, my 2013 Chevy 2500 with the gas motor averages between 20 and 23L per 100km. The 2011 Ram 2500 I had before that was similar. I don't know what the new diesels get.

I'd buy a diesel, but that's because I like the clatter and they make me feel like a big man.

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Diesel sounds like the way to go, and it really comes down to this or the Dodge.

Personally I'd go Dodge for a few reasons;
1) The Cummins is such a proven work horse
2) Dodge usually has a gazillion discounts compared to Ford
3) Reliability over Ford
You forgot 4) Significantly higher resale than Ford. Used prices on Cummins trucks are nuts..

Originally posted by r3ccOs
From a relaibility perspective, I am just not positive about Dodge.
I have a Ram diesel, but I still agree. I don't think my truck is as durable as a F250, however, it was at least $15k cheaper than a comparably equipped Ford or GM, and will actually be worth more than either on the resale market in 2 years. With the insane discounts on new ones and ridiculous resale values on Cummins trucks, flip them around the 2yr or 80k mark while they're still in warranty and your cost of ownership will be way less than with Ford or GM, plus you get a new truck every couple years. Anything will last 2 years on a lease road, even a Dodge, and they have the most features and creature comforts at the moment.

Originally posted by SKR
Just for comparison's sake, my 2013 Chevy 2500 with the gas motor averages between 20 and 23L per 100km. The 2011 Ram 2500 I had before that was similar. I don't know what the new diesels get.
My 2014 Ram 2500 CCSB 4x4 average moves between 16.x and 13.x L/100km depending on how much highway I'm doing. If I do all highway and keep the speed down, it gets 11.x L/100km for that tank. Not bad for a fully loaded 8700lb truck.

[4runneron36s]

Whatever you get, don't lift it, just get a good set of summer (all-terrain to mud tires) and winter tires, make sure you have a locker/LSD in the rear diff, get a decent air compressor, tow straps (the bungee type), shackles, air down valves. IFS will be much better on washboard roads than a solid axle, although it isn't as durable (but you're probably not going to wheel it). Keep an eye on the tie rods/balljoints and replace as required with quality OEM or aftermarket (non-China) parts.

A lifted truck won't drive as nice and really won't serve a purpose for what you need it for. You could probably go up one or two tires sizes without a lift, although you may have to trim some plastic. I see our field crews spend thousands on lifting their work trucks (garbage lifts too, that don't address maintaining suspension/steering geometry) and the trucks drive like shit, look like shit (my opinion), and end up being a money pit due to rapidly worn out suspension and steering components. A properly equipped offroad vehicle will do much better than a lifted truck.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by r3ccOs

My nieghbor swore by his 5.9 and I believe the 6.7 is just as sturdy, yet with more hp and bottom end.


Nyoooo. The 5.9 was awesome, but the 6.7 is no where near as reliable an engine. There's just too many more parts to break due to emissions.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by themack89
I'm driving an 08 Sierra 1500, but I'm pretty sure the way I drive it and how many miles I am putting on it isn't going to last me very long. 30,000km In 9 months, and I wasn't really using it for 4 of those months.

I'd like to try a diesel, but I don't see any good reason to get a 1-ton because I don't have anything heavy to tow.

I do want 4-doors, and at least a 6.5 foot box for carrying MWD tools if I ever have to.

This truck is going to be my life line, so it has to be reliable as number 1 priority.

What's good these days considering these points?

We do the same thing, and I went with a 2014 F150 FX4 EcoBoost. Absolutely love it.

If you're not hauling an entire mwd kit, just get a half ton. If you do haul kits, get a one ton.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb


We do the same thing, and I went with a 2014 F150 FX4 EcoBoost. Absolutely love it.

If you're not hauling an entire mwd kit, just get a half ton. If you do haul kits, get a one ton.

well there you have it.

that being said, a cheapo $400 airbag kit and you're set